bornagainathiest Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 The Bible does not teach that people are in Heaven now. Yes it does. 2 Kings 2:11 11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francesco Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Netherlands reformed church teaches you cant own a tv. let me guess, it's unbiblical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Ironhorse: The bible doesn't teach that there's people in Heaven now BAA: 2 Kings 2:11, boom! Christian caught in contradiction. I'm waiting for the upcoming apologetic acrobatics on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottsman Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 Netherlands reformed church teaches you cant own a tv. let me guess, it's unbiblical? It is of the world. You must be in the world but not of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Netherlands reformed church teaches you cant own a tv. let me guess, it's unbiblical? It is of the world. You must be in the world but not of the world. So is penicillin and cars. Best not be driving or taking medicine either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 The Bible does not teach that people are in Heaven now. Yes it does. 2 Kings 2:11 11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind. Bravo. I had forgotten about that one. Surely our Artful Dodger will say it doesn't really mean what it looks like it means. The Bible is all mystery and metaphor except for the core message that is easy to understand as long as you don't question it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 The Bible does not teach that people are in Heaven now. Yes is does. You are a liar, Ironhorse. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. ~1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 This is my understanding of scripture: At present, no one is walking around Heaven in a physical body. I believe at death our spirits returns to God and we await the resurrection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 The Bible does not teach that people are in Heaven now. Yes is does. You are a liar, Ironhorse. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. ~1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 This is my understanding of scripture: At present, no one is walking around Heaven in a physical body. I believe at death our spirits returns to God and we await the resurrection. It's a Bible contradiction. It's just one of thousands. The Bible is full of contradictions because the Bible is the word of ignorant men who couldn't agree with each other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted April 22, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted April 22, 2014 The Bible does not teach that people are in Heaven now. Yes is does. You are a liar, Ironhorse. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. ~1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 This is my understanding of scripture: At present, no one is walking around Heaven in a physical body. I believe at death our spirits returns to God and we await the resurrection. See BAA's post above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I've heard both about either going to heaven right away, or waiting until god says it's ok and all the chosen rise up at once. All those contradictions. And heaven is a place somewhere up above us (where the tower of babel was going) or we get new bodies in the new earth. Or we get a special room prepared for us in god's big house. Also, I grew up in a Methodist church and we did have dances, but not many years before it was forbidden for Methodists to dance. Or play cards (at all, not just gambling). Or drink alcohol. Different sects and different churches have different rules. Whatev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernweh Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecclesiastes 9:5 So much for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted April 22, 2014 Moderator Share Posted April 22, 2014 Ah, Ecclesiastes... 3:21 "Who knoweth the spirit of man, whether it goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast, whether it goeth downward to the earth?" (ASV) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 The Bible does not teach that people are in Heaven now. Yes is does. You are a liar, Ironhorse. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. ~1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 This is my understanding of scripture: At present, no one is walking around Heaven in a physical body. I believe at death our spirits returns to God and we await the resurrection. See BAA's post above. Yup. And let's don't forget Enoch. He didn't die according to Genesis 5, but he did in Hebrews 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Didn't Jesus take his disciples up a hill and they saw 2 dead people? Were they tripping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Or has the judgement already happened and we have all actually died and been handed our fate and God just calls back in to the present to keep an eye on things. I think if God is true then he's living in the end and we are just a repeat of a show he's already seen, we are his reality tv show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecclesiastes 9:5 So much for I have heard pastors discredit the entire book of Ecclesiastes, claiming that this was the period of Solomon's life where he was led astray by his pagan wives. Funny, how it's always the woman's fault that the man of gawd falls away. The book is a bit of a let down considering it was written by the wisest guy who ever lived, but the verse you mentioned is actually one of my favorite bible verses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernweh Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecclesiastes 9:5 So much for I have heard pastors discredit the entire book of Ecclesiastes, claiming that this was the period of Solomon's life where he was led astray by his pagan wives. Funny, how it's always the woman's fault that the man of gawd falls away. The book is a bit of a let down considering it was written by the wisest guy who ever lived, but the verse you mentioned is actually one of my favorite bible verses. Ecclesiastes was my gateway to atheism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecclesiastes 9:5 So much for I have heard pastors discredit the entire book of Ecclesiastes, claiming that this was the period of Solomon's life where he was led astray by his pagan wives. Funny, how it's always the woman's fault that the man of gawd falls away. The book is a bit of a let down considering it was written by the wisest guy who ever lived, but the verse you mentioned is actually one of my favorite bible verses. Ecclesiastes was my gateway to atheism. I can totally understand that. The book seems to contradict the rest of the bible, yet makes more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 It's funny how a lot of Solomon's Proverbs say the exact opposite as each other, it's like "don't do x for someone" then it says "do x for someone" I guess it's for the spiritually minded to seperate 2 contradictory statements and make them BOTH right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecclesiastes 9:5 So much for I have heard pastors discredit the entire book of Ecclesiastes, claiming that this was the period of Solomon's life where he was led astray by his pagan wives. Funny, how it's always the woman's fault that the man of gawd falls away. The book is a bit of a let down considering it was written by the wisest guy who ever lived, but the verse you mentioned is actually one of my favorite bible verses. Ecclesiastes was my gateway to atheism. I can totally understand that. The book seems to contradict the rest of the bible, yet makes more sense. Ecclesiastes was written by Solomon. The book is not to be view as direct words from God, but his thoughts and views on life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 God gave him his wisdom so the words are a gift from God. Gods signiture is contradictory statements, his fingerprints are all over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecclesiastes 9:5 So much for I have heard pastors discredit the entire book of Ecclesiastes, claiming that this was the period of Solomon's life where he was led astray by his pagan wives. Funny, how it's always the woman's fault that the man of gawd falls away. The book is a bit of a let down considering it was written by the wisest guy who ever lived, but the verse you mentioned is actually one of my favorite bible verses. Ecclesiastes was my gateway to atheism. I can totally understand that. The book seems to contradict the rest of the bible, yet makes more sense. Ecclesiastes was written by Solomon. The book is not to be view as direct words from God, but his thoughts and views on life. That's what I'm talking about. 66 books, all inspired by the holy spirit. The infallible word of God, but then... that book is only a book of an ancient man's thoughts and opinions. HAHAHHA! 65 left to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecclesiastes 9:5 So much for I have heard pastors discredit the entire book of Ecclesiastes, claiming that this was the period of Solomon's life where he was led astray by his pagan wives. Funny, how it's always the woman's fault that the man of gawd falls away. The book is a bit of a let down considering it was written by the wisest guy who ever lived, but the verse you mentioned is actually one of my favorite bible verses. Ecclesiastes was my gateway to atheism. I can totally understand that. The book seems to contradict the rest of the bible, yet makes more sense. Ecclesiastes was written by Solomon. The book is not to be view as direct words from God, but his thoughts and views on life. That's what I'm talking about. 66 books, all inspired by the holy spirit. The infallible word of God, but then... that book is only a book of an ancient man's thoughts and opinions. HAHAHHA! 65 left to go. It's not that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 66 books, written by anonymous authors, left without any original manuscripts, been voted and argued over which books to include and take out hundred of times, had many editions with different books altogether. And the christian god is so awesome that he's omnipotent. He had the very power to make sure everything lined up. But he didn't do that. If he's omnipotent, and allowed his inspired word to be bastardized so much, then he's evil. Or he could just be an invention of people over time, taken and collected from other myths and legends. Hmmmm. EDIT: Yes, it is that simple. We humans have made it possible for a 10 year old child in New York to send an email to his deployed mom in Germany and it will be word-for-word bang on accurate. What's more, we made it possible so that the mom in Germany can then re-transmit that letter to her parents in Idaho, with the original message being bang on accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Well said Roz, the Bible is it's biggest enemy but I guess us laymen were never supposed to read it ourselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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