They've Labelled Me A "doubting Thomas"...

[HulkDeez]

G’day Guys,

 

 

I have been visiting this site on and off for about a week now, and I am really happy to have stumbled across it. 

 

I have been a christian since Valentines Day, 2009. My decision to become a christ follower was one of faith, prior to evidence. Basically I liked what I had heard and thought that it was the way to go.

 

During my christian walk, I have been called what they refer to as a “back slider”. My faith originally started off strong, I was enthusiastic and just wanted to know more and more. But then as time progressed, something just wasn’t sitting right with me and well, something started to stir. 

 

Growing up, I was never raised by parents who were into the whole “church thing”. We never attended church and if anything, my family is a long way off being christian. It was when I met my wife in 2007, that slowly I was introduced to christianity. 

 

I need to say that my wife has never been one to push christianity onto me, however now that I have decided to leave the faith she will be standing firm in hers, so this could prove very interesting

 

It all started for me a little while back. I wanted to know more of who god was, and why he does/allows certain things all throughout the bible that I myself, do not agree with. I met with a senior pastor at my church who really didn’t seem to care about my questions and addressed them with, “Are you still able to come in and do some work?”. It was evident from that point on, that I was not going to get anything of what I was seeking from him nor at the place that I had been calling my “home church”.

 

This sparked a fire in me and all I wanted to do from that point on, was to get to the heart of it all. I was hoping initially that what I started to call as my “quest” would strengthen my case for christ and validate why I should live my life on fire for him. Unfortunately, this has not been the case.

 

I have had to go on this journey alone and I have now spent countless hours researching everything. From biblical contradictions to origin debates, sic-fi documentaries to searches for biblical evidence, interviews and papers written by some of the best scholars and academics that have now drawn to their own conclusions after having themselves concluding extensive research.

 

The breaking point however for me, was a few weeks ago when my 2 year old son contracted chicken pox. Seeing his small, little body covered in a highly inflamed rash and listening to his pain while he suffered was enough for me. My faith had taught me to pray for healing. Stand in scripture, ask and it shall be given. Seriously, what a load of horse sh*t. 

 

Come to think of it, every time I or one of my family members had been sick we have prayed and guess what happened? Nothing! Church teaches that we are to have a relationship with the god of the bible and that through prayer we are to keep this relationship strong. And in return with what I am calling the “Relationship Agreement”, god will keep us covered within his convanent.

 

I now have multiple issues with the bible and with the fact that god does not intervene to protect his people, nor anyone else who is suffering in this world. And just as those on this site who have been there and searched this out before me, I also cannot find any proof of a global flood, nor the exile or enslavement or much of anything else for that matter. Even the creation account in genesis is written back to front and modern day science is crapping all over scripture in general.

 

I have been called a few names under the sun by fellow Christians whom I thought were my brothers and sisters, all with the reasoning that “I haven’t seemed myself lately”. Within this search I have kept the utmost respect for everyone regardless of faith, race, colour, sex, whatever. I am now so tired of hearing the same old excuse being, “We know and believe it to be true”. 

 

I just can’t fathom justifying acts throughout the bible such as genocide, kidnapping and rape of virgin girls. As a father myself, why would anyone condone this, let alone sacrifice their children for such a God. It just does not make any logical sense.  

 

I guess now before I give myself an aneurism I should call it a day. I’m now calling myself an Agnostic. I’m pro-evolution with all the proof, however I have always believed that there is some sort of spiritual world out there and that has to count for something.

 

I love this website and appreciate all that have been there before me. Very inspirational, especially after being made to feel like questioning God is not right and being told that “Who do I think that I am?” for doing it. 

[DoubtingNate]

Welcome!  I've been seriously doubting for just over a year now, but really had doubts all along.  i'm not sure if I ever believed deep down.

 

There are few things worse than watching loved ones suffer, even if it's "just" chickenpox.  My wife gets kidney stones and I've listened to her scream in agony from the tube they had to put in once. That might have been a turning point for me.

 

My boy is 3.  Being a dad is a good time in your life to be thinking about these things, because soon he will start asking you questions.

 

Thank you for sharing your story; I am a noob, but it seems like there are Good People here.  Talking always helps. 

[WarriorPoet]

Doubting Thomas, the only rational character in the entire gospel narrative.  The one who wouldn't just accept someone's story that jesus had magically come back.  He needed proof and, put in the same situation, so would any sane person.  If you are going to be compared to a biblical figure, this is the one you should want.

 

I was hoping initially that what I started to call as my “quest” would strengthen my case for christ and validate why I should live my life on fire for him. Unfortunately, this has not been the case.

That is about as common a story as any here.  Many of us started on the road to deconversion by trying to make our relationship with god better.  Crazy how often that endeavor leads to the opposite result.  Then again, maybe it isn't so crazy.  Doing any sort of in depth study of the bible shows it to be the outlandish collection of myths that it really is.  Keeping track of how your prayers are supposedly answered yields results that are eerily similar to random chance.  If you stay honest with yourself you start to realize that maybe there really isn't much to the faith thing.

 

Remember one thing as you begin this journey.  You don't owe the christians anything when they start to criticize you, try to win you back or even debate you.  You don't need to explain yourself or defend your position, unless you want to.  If they aren't happy letting you live your life on your terms, then they have no business intruding into your life.

 

Welcome to Ex-c Hulk. 

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Welcome, we're so glad you're here.  I enjoyed reading your story, it made perfect sense to me.

 

It's ok to identify (or not) with any label you choose.  I'm an Atheist - not everyone here is one, there are many Agnostics and other people who have some belief.  People here are very accepting of others and in my experience it is a safe place to express oneself.

 

Have you read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins?  I'm reading it at the moment and I've watched the doco version on youtube along with many Dawkins videos.  Highly recommended for the newly deconverted.

 

I particularly agree with this comment:

 

Remember one thing as you begin this journey.  You don't owe the christians anything when they start to criticize you, try to win you back or even debate you.  You don't need to explain yourself or defend your position, unless you want to.  If they aren't happy letting you live your life on your terms, then they have no business intruding into your life.

[HulkDeez]

Thanks All for the replies to the original post. It is truly appreciated

 

I have been reading a lot of stuff whilst debunking christianity, but have yet to read "The God Delusion". If anything, I have been steered away from it, lol. Obviously by fellow christians with something to hide

 

I can relate to most posts on here but some I have been reading, Geez, Credit to them!

 

Again, I really appreciate the support and look forward to dropping a few posts and replies around the traps

[FreeThinkerNZ]

I have been reading a lot of stuff whilst debunking christianity, but have yet to read "The God Delusion". If anything, I have been steered away from it, lol. Obviously by fellow christians with something to hide

 

 

I'm surprised they haven't tried to get you to read The Dawkins Delusion, written by a christian apologist.  Your doubt really makes them uncomfortable doesn't it?

[HulkDeez]

Hey FreeThinkerNZ, 

 

 

Yeah it's been a pretty chaotic ride. Kinda feels like being carjacked at times. Like someone else is trying to take control of the vehicle your driving.

 

I will continue my "quest" but from a new vantage point of one which makes complete sense

 

Thank You for your comments.

[DoubtingNate]

God Delusion is a good overview.  I made a reading list here a few weeks ago, which others have added to as well.  I am not sure why thread was locked, but there are some good recommendations in there, as well as in the 'Pinned' threads in the top of each forum.  reading list thread.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

g'day mate.  Glad to have you with us.  You're fortunate to have had such a short sojourn in christendom.  Many of us here were indoctrinated from birth.  Sounds like you're a serious thinker and while we have no shortage of those here, we can never have too many.  As to your wife, if she's not the pushy type, then likely y'all will be fine.  Give us a holler if there's anything you need.

[mymistake]

Welcome HD.

[Ellinas]

Welcome.

 

You made it out of the stranglehold of Christianity relatively quickly - congratulations.

 

As to your wife, if she's able to "live and let live" (a rare quality among Christians, especially of the conservative variety) you should have no particular problem.  Just both remember that you each have the right to believe whatever you choose.

 

And don't be surprised at being labelled "backslider", "doubting Thomas" or anything else for that matter - it's easier for your Christian contacts to see you as a "true believer" who has somehow slipped into error than as once-but-no-longer Christian as the religion tends to insist that those who "know the truth" can never abandon it.

 

As to any further or alternative spiritual ideas (if I interpret correctly your comment about your always having believed there was "some sort of spiritual world out there") - that's something you must sort out in your own mind.  Take your time.  You have the rest of your life to do it.

 

All the best.

[Fernweh]

You may find this book interesting and it could help explain your pastors reaction to serious questions.

[par4dcourse]

Wear the moniker with pride. Thomas was sane enough to demand proof. A noble trait!

[mymistake]

Wear the moniker with pride. Thomas was sane enough to demand proof. A noble trait!

 

 

And Jesus appeared to Thomas so why won't Jesus appear to any of us?  Come on Jesus, show up.     *crickets chirp*

[midniterider]

 

G’day Guys,

 

 

I have been visiting this site on and off for about a week now, and I am really happy to have stumbled across it. 

 

I have been a christian since Valentines Day, 2009. My decision to become a christ follower was one of faith, prior to evidence. Basically I liked what I had heard and thought that it was the way to go.

 

During my christian walk, I have been called what they refer to as a “back slider”. My faith originally started off strong, I was enthusiastic and just wanted to know more and more. But then as time progressed, something just wasn’t sitting right with me and well, something started to stir. 

 

Growing up, I was never raised by parents who were into the whole “church thing”. We never attended church and if anything, my family is a long way off being christian. It was when I met my wife in 2007, that slowly I was introduced to christianity. 

 

I need to say that my wife has never been one to push christianity onto me, however now that I have decided to leave the faith she will be standing firm in hers, so this could prove very interesting

 

It all started for me a little while back. I wanted to know more of who god was, and why he does/allows certain things all throughout the bible that I myself, do not agree with. I met with a senior pastor at my church who really didn’t seem to care about my questions and addressed them with, “Are you still able to come in and do some work?”. It was evident from that point on, that I was not going to get anything of what I was seeking from him nor at the place that I had been calling my “home church”.

 

This sparked a fire in me and all I wanted to do from that point on, was to get to the heart of it all. I was hoping initially that what I started to call as my “quest” would strengthen my case for christ and validate why I should live my life on fire for him. Unfortunately, this has not been the case.

 

I have had to go on this journey alone and I have now spent countless hours researching everything. From biblical contradictions to origin debates, sic-fi documentaries to searches for biblical evidence, interviews and papers written by some of the best scholars and academics that have now drawn to their own conclusions after having themselves concluding extensive research.

 

The breaking point however for me, was a few weeks ago when my 2 year old son contracted chicken pox. Seeing his small, little body covered in a highly inflamed rash and listening to his pain while he suffered was enough for me. My faith had taught me to pray for healing. Stand in scripture, ask and it shall be given. Seriously, what a load of horse sh*t. 

 

Come to think of it, every time I or one of my family members had been sick we have prayed and guess what happened? Nothing! Church teaches that we are to have a relationship with the god of the bible and that through prayer we are to keep this relationship strong. And in return with what I am calling the “Relationship Agreement”, god will keep us covered within his convanent.

 

I now have multiple issues with the bible and with the fact that god does not intervene to protect his people, nor anyone else who is suffering in this world. And just as those on this site who have been there and searched this out before me, I also cannot find any proof of a global flood, nor the exile or enslavement or much of anything else for that matter. Even the creation account in genesis is written back to front and modern day science is crapping all over scripture in general.

 

I have been called a few names under the sun by fellow Christians whom I thought were my brothers and sisters, all with the reasoning that “I haven’t seemed myself lately”. Within this search I have kept the utmost respect for everyone regardless of faith, race, colour, sex, whatever. I am now so tired of hearing the same old excuse being, “We know and believe it to be true”. 

 

I just can’t fathom justifying acts throughout the bible such as genocide, kidnapping and rape of virgin girls. As a father myself, why would anyone condone this, let alone sacrifice their children for such a God. It just does not make any logical sense.  

 

I guess now before I give myself an aneurism I should call it a day. I’m now calling myself an Agnostic. I’m pro-evolution with all the proof, however I have always believed that there is some sort of spiritual world out there and that has to count for something.

 

I love this website and appreciate all that have been there before me. Very inspirational, especially after being made to feel like questioning God is not right and being told that “Who do I think that I am?” for doing it. 

 

 

Why would people be upset that you are questioning God? Other than they know their own religion is bullshit but are afraid to really embrace that idea. If God were real and Christian culture and scripture were true you wouldn't have to believe in it. It would stand on its own merit. You could question it and find that it was absolutely true. 

 

Anything that someone does not want you to question or think about is immediately suspect. Any statements asserting an absolute quality (God is perfect) are suspect.

 

Your story sounds somewhat like mine. Agnostic basic foundation then married a Christian. I divorced the Christian though and shortly thereafter the spell of Christianity wilted. Though I did not do research like you have, I had questions and nobody (in church) really answered them. This site is a great resource for lazy people like me who can read the work of others who have rooted out bible baloney or just watch Christian apologetic arguments get destroyed with reason. Spending time here  has given me the mindset to question other things, not just religion. It's been a great help.

[midniterider]

Thanks All for the replies to the original post. It is truly appreciated

 

I have been reading a lot of stuff whilst debunking christianity, but have yet to read "The God Delusion". If anything, I have been steered away from it, lol. Obviously by fellow christians with something to hide

 

I can relate to most posts on here but some I have been reading, Geez, Credit to them!

 

Again, I really appreciate the support and look forward to dropping a few posts and replies around the traps

 

God Delusion. I made it halfway through but there is a lot of tedium where he goes off on some science tangent that I got lost as to what his point was supposed to be. Maybe the Cliff's Notes version would be better. :-) I did make it far enough to see what his version of atheism meant and it wasn't for me. It was enough for me to leave the repressive religion of Christianity.

 

I also read The Christian Delusion by John Loftus. Probably a good book if you are questioning your belief in Jesus.

 

It's nice to take some ideas from these writers....but balance these ideas with your own. Once you kick Jesus out of the driver seat dont replace him with anybody but yourself. :-)

[HulkDeez]

Thanks Everyone for the words of encouragement and support. Again, I really appreciate it.

 

So nice to hear from people with experience, who have gone through similar situations.

 

I read a couple of the "Case" books by Lee Strobel. My hunch was that as he was a former atheist and investigative journalist, that he would nutt out and get to the bottom of a lot of the questions I wanted to ask. But geez, was I wrong.

 

Not sure if any have read them, but they talk and pick through a topic and somehow draw upon a conclusion of justification for the actions taken throughout the bible. It is really unsettling.

 

I can't wait to get some time together this weekend and download a few books from the bookstore to get me thinking. Some of these recommendations have really got me intrigued and I'm thirsty for that knowledge. 

 

Looking forward to expanding my brain and not dumbing it down

[FreeThinkerNZ]

God Delusion is a good overview.  I made a reading list here a few weeks ago, which others have added to as well.  I am not sure why thread was locked, but there are some good recommendations in there, as well as in the 'Pinned' threads in the top of each forum.  reading list thread.

 

Threads get automatically locked after 30 days of no new posts.

 

[Voice]

Better a Doubting Thomas than a Servant of Satan.  Welcome to the site.

[amateur]

Welcome!  You have definitely found a site full of questioners and people who will not accept simple answers to their questions!  I have never had a satisfying conversation with a minister or religious person.  They don't actually answer questions, they just talk until you give up.  

 

I have learned so much from reading a lot on this site, and it's so nice to get involved in the dialogue.

[Ousian]

There's a lot worse things they could call you, I'd count yourself lucky.

[milesaway]

Xtians like to label everyone, and them calling you that in their condescending way is their attempt at shaming you back into their stupid social club. It isn't gonna work, though.

 

You're in good company here. Doubting Thomases unite!

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Xtians like to label everyone, and them calling you that in their condescending way is their attempt at shaming you back into their stupid social club. It isn't gonna work, though.

 

You're in good company here. Doubting Thomases unite!

That's a good point, milesaway.  Why do they do that?  Is it about knowing what people's beliefs/unbeliefs are, so that they can figure out who is in their club and who isn't.  It's like going to a social club every week and there's people on the door checking out your beliefs to make sure they still match their own.  Xians cannot handle people questioning and doubting, it makes them feel like they're on shaky ground.

[sdelsolray]

 

Xtians like to label everyone, and them calling you that in their condescending way is their attempt at shaming you back into their stupid social club. It isn't gonna work, though.

 

You're in good company here. Doubting Thomases unite!

That's a good point, milesaway.  Why do they do that?  Is it about knowing what people's beliefs/unbeliefs are, so that they can figure out who is in their club and who isn't.  It's like going to a social club every week and there's people on the door checking out your beliefs to make sure they still match their own.  Xians cannot handle people questioning and doubting, it makes them feel like they're on shaky ground.

 

2 oz tribalism

1 oz xenophobia

1 oz narcissism

1 teas. hubris

 

Mix well and bake for 1 hour.  Serves one.

[milesaway]

I guess their obsession with labels has something to do with their "us vs. them" mentality, and it lets them pick and choose who to hang out with, who to ignore, and who to treat like crap. After all, how else are they gonna bolster their own delusions?