I Thought This Would Be Easy

[StruggleWithin]

I have been lurking here for a month or so.  I decided to join to hopefully be around people who know what I am going through.

I will tell you right now I am long winded, too detailed, prone to gross misuse of commas and/or complete lack of them (I am not quite consistent in that regard), and run on sentences with plenty of typos.  

I apologize in advance!

 

I will try to summarize and not make this book length.

 

I grew up in a household with no religion so to speak.  

My parents were both brought up as catholics, and when they got married they opted not to go to church or "church" me.

The only time I remember going to church was for weddings, funerals, and when I was forced to go with relatives when my parents were out of town and they were babysitting me.

My parents were not religious but my mother did hold to certain religious beliefs ie; baptism (they did have me baptized in the catholic church) and going to hell if you committed suicide (I was a suicidal teenager)

 

My extended family were all practicing catholics and I do remember my grandmother asking me if I knew about Jesus and she went through that whole he died for my sins etc etc  (I am sure I don't need to elaborate) She also taught me to pray and my great grandmother bought me a rosary.  I had no idea what it was for, I just liked it as jewelry.  I do remember praying at night as a kid and talking to god throughout my life when things went wrong, but I really had no idea what it all meant.  

 

As a teenager, I was miserable and unhappy.  I considered myself an atheist but still talked to god on occasion.  Throughout my life people would ask me my thoughts on god and I just thought, at the time, that something must have made us but I didn't know who or what.  I really didn't care to be honest.  

I do remember my grandmother griping I had not made communion and I was clueless as to what that meant.  All I remember is being told I couldn't get married in a church and I thought that was the only way you CAN get married.  Yeah, I wasn't too up on things, but I was a kid what did I know?!

 

Over the years, and numerous influences later, I did finally buy a bible and try to read it.  I am a reader and while not the smartest person on earth, not really dumb either.  I couldn't understand it.  I think because I was expecting it to be like a regular book I just couldn't follow it.  I read bits and pieces of it over the years, but it wasn't until the last 10 years or so I really got serious and read it through cover to cover.  I read tons of christian books and listened to hundreds of sermons.  I ate it up and would talk about what I learned endlessly.  The things that didn't make sense I tried to explain away.  I had people come to me asking me what things meant because I could explain it in easier to understand terms.  

 

Over the years, all those things that bothered me I would ignore, explain away, or ask pastors about it and was satisfied with their answers (deep down I don't think I was, but denial is a funny thing)  It took another sermon on tithing to really get me angry enough to snap out of it.  I never really believed in the tithe and read tons of arguments for and against it.  It was clear to me they took so many verses out of context but when the church I was going to did the most recent teaching on it I could not stop the nagging feeling of how they twisted things and that drove me to open my mind up to other possibilities.  

 

I actually quit volunteering and stopped going to that church.  I didn't go to church at all for a few weeks, and then found another to go to that I really liked.  But, the nagging wouldn't go away.  I liked everything the pastor said and I felt more at ease than I had felt in church for a long time.  I found a few blogs while looking for something else and read everything on them.  They were atheist blogs, and I was curious what they had to say, and open enough to think about what they said.  

 

My christian world came crashing down.  It happened quickly.  I pushed against it and tried to go through the motions but everything was bothering me now.  I had been going to bible study and loved all the people there, and now I was sitting there angry in my head at the things these people were saying, and the message that was being taught.  I was picking it all apart in my head and trying to not let on that something was going on inside me.

 

I have a hard time lying and when one of the guys in the group asked me why he hadn't seen me in the office at church I told him we stopped going to that church.  He asked if we found another church and I said we did but right now we aren't going at all.  He said we should be going and we need it etc.  I told him I was struggling and he said you used to be an atheist right?  I said yes and he said to read my bible and I said that is the problem, the bible makes me angry and reading it pulls me further away from faith.  At that time I started talking to someone else and then the study started.

A few times during the study people turned to me for my opinions about what we just heard and the passages we just read and I said I wasn't in a position at the moment to answer that.  We left quickly that night and haven't been back.

 

I only talked to one other friend and she told me I was being attacked by the devil and when I said no I don't think that is it, she said maybe you never had faith and you just think you did.  I gave her a few examples of things that bother me in the bible (because she has never really read it because she doesn't understand it) and I may as well have been speaking another language.  Funny how people who haven't even read the damn book stick up for it and make excuses for it.  If god really is all knowing and all powerful wouldn't his word stand up on its own?

 

I have a LOT of reasons to NOT believe.

The hard part is, my life would be so much easier if I did believe, but I just can't.

I still have that guilt and fear that I could be wrong and suffer eternity for it, but then I think, why the hell would I want to worship a god who uses guilt and fear to get people to worship him?

I argue with myself constantly about god and I keep coming back to the fact that even IF he exists, the god of the bible is NOT a good god worthy of my worship.

This might sound strange but ever since I decided that I don't believe anymore I have had poisonous bugs in my house, everything has been going wrong and I sometimes wonder if I am being punished.  Then I think, if god is real and if god is punishing me for not believing, what kind of god is that?

 

I feel like I am going crazy.  I have no one to talk to.  All my friends are christians and only that 1 I was blunt honest with and said I no longer believe.  To the others I just said I am struggling and left it at that.  I see religion everywhere I go, and I used to think we were the minority and that most people were not religious.  Oh how wrong I was.

 

I will quit here for now.  I could go on and on and I think this is long enough.

I feel like I am making no sense

[Ravenstar]

You make perfect sense

 

It's okay… and it isn't always easy, but there are more of us out there than you know. You made it here!  

 

Relax.. it will get better.

 

and.. welcome to Ex-C!

[StruggleWithin]

Thanks, I am just trying to sort it all out.

I am 100% over christianity.

It is hard to let go of the fact that I will not see anyone I loved again. Also, letting go of the feeling that no matter what bad thing happens, someone else is in control and it will all work out for the best.  

 

I can see why religious people refuse to let go of what they believe, but believing something doesn't make it true.  Funny how we can psych ourselves out.

 

One of the good things about all this, is that I can see both sides now.  

It does piss me off when people make flippant remarks about how my faith wasn't real.  But, it seems christians are really good at making snap judgements about a persons faith, and pretty much everything else they don't agree with, or have an answer for.

 

I feel free and my brain has been given a break in some respects but, in others, it is a slippery slope for me.  I think too much!

[slave2six]

 

 

The hard part is, my life would be so much easier if I did believe, but I just can't.

 

It may seem so but I can almost guarantee that this is not the case. Constant cognitive dissonance affect ever area of your life. You value honesty. As such, being dishonest with yourself will cause far more harm than good.

 

 

 

 

...christians are really good at making snap judgements...

 

...about everything. They have no capacity to listen, consider various sides of a discussion, or admit that they might be wrong. That was one of the most immediate releases for me when I deconverted; "I don't know" is a wonderful thing to admit. It allows for all manner of wonder and joy. 

 

You are on a good path. Just trust yourself. There is no such thing as "thinking too much." The more you think, the simpler it will be for you to recognize the truth.

[StruggleWithin]

 

 

 

The hard part is, my life would be so much easier if I did believe, but I just can't.

 

It may seem so but I can almost guarantee that this is not the case. Constant cognitive dissonance affect ever area of your life. You value honesty. As such, being dishonest with yourself will cause far more harm than good.

 

 

I completely agree that being dishonest does more harm than good.

I basically meant it would be easier in that I wouldn't have to deal with my christian friends, which I probably won't have for very long.  

 

Having no friends sucks, but I suppose it is better than having friends that irritate you with all their god talk, tell you all the reasons you are wrong (like I haven't heard all those arguments before, or even used some of them myself, I am ashamed to admit!) and trying to reconvert you etc etc.

 

 

I definitely have more peace since I woke up, but I am still having to work through letting some things go.  I don't believe but some things have just stuck, does that make sense?

[StruggleWithin]

sorry I screwed up that quote...my response ended up IN the quote and I can't figure out how to edit it.

 

My response:

I completely agree that being dishonest does more harm than good.

I basically meant it would be easier in that I wouldn't have to deal with my christian friends, which I probably won't have for very long.  

 

Having no friends sucks, but I suppose it is better than having friends that irritate you with all their god talk, tell you all the reasons you are wrong (like I haven't heard all those arguments before, or even used some of them myself, I am ashamed to admit!) and trying to reconvert you etc etc.

 

 

I definitely have more peace since I woke up, but I am still having to work through letting some things go.  I don't believe but some things have just stuck, does that make sense?

[bfuddled]

You sound a lot like me, like your brain doesn't shut off and you analyze and reanalyze things and think them to death.

 

I haven't totally left the church yet, for the most part because I haven't gotten up the courage to totally "out" myself, and I don't have much social interaction besides family/work except that that I get thru church.

 

Reading as much as I can about the problems with Christianity and listening to audiobooks/podcasts that talk about atheism have been a big help to me. I recently started listening to The Thinking Athiest and I really like him. He is an ex christian as well, so a lot of the topics he covers deal with issues for people leaving the church.

 

Stick around here and read/post. This place has been awesome for me, especially since I don't have many IRL people I can talk openly with about this yet.

[StruggleWithin]

You sound a lot like me, like your brain doesn't shut off and you analyze and reanalyze things and think them to death.

 

I haven't totally left the church yet, for the most part because I haven't gotten up the courage to totally "out" myself, and I don't have much social interaction besides family/work except that that I get thru church.

 

Reading as much as I can about the problems with Christianity and listening to audiobooks/podcasts that talk about atheism have been a big help to me. I recently started listening to The Thinking Athiest and I really like him. He is an ex christian as well, so a lot of the topics he covers deal with issues for people leaving the church.

 

Stick around here and read/post. This place has been awesome for me, especially since I don't have many IRL people I can talk openly with about this yet.

 

It was easy for me to leave the church I was at originally because they had just been taken over by a larger church.  My husband and I weren't happy with the new church but we gave it many months before deciding to leave.  I started getting angry and at first I thought it was just how they ran things (and the fact that it was the same building with all the same people but with different leaders) but I found after I took a few weeks off, and went to a church I liked and didn't make me angry, that the nagging was still there.  We were invited to another church our friends started going to and it was very small and the people super nice but that nagging wouldn't go away.

Finally I told my husband I wasn't going to church anymore. I haven't been back since.  We went to bible study that one last time and we both felt uncomfortable (which I think was more to do with our own projection than the actual group)

In any case I have no one in real life to talk with either (other than my husband, but he could care less, has never read the bible, wasn't brought up with religion, and liked church more for socializing anyway) we both miss the friends we made.  But I really don't feel comfortable talking to them because based on comments they made about people who don't believe the last two times I was there, I already know what I am going to get

I wish there were other ex-christians near me I could talk to.  As it is, until we got active in that last church, we really didn't have any friends here.  It sucks.

Finding this site and other blogs has helped me but it would still be nice to talk to someone who understands.  I do have one atheist friend but she lives many states away and was never a christian, so she doesn't understand, and is hard to get on the phone in any case.

[rach]

I did the same thing.  Read the Bible and turned away for good.  If the Bible is a reflection of god and his people, I simply am appalled by it.  There is no way I could be part of it anymore just like there is no way I could do anything completely against my own character and desires.  It is a lonely path to trod.  My adoptive family see nothing but beauty even in the most atrocious Bible passages.  They are god-zombies "god is good all the time all the time god is good, even when he's not."  I know I am seeing things clearly and they are not.  Leaving church was such a relief.  From childhood onwards I was completely miserable there.  The sermons were either terrifying, boring or made no sense at all.  The bible was like a foul tasting poison being poured down my throat.  Every part of me rejected this.  I have decided to just, be who I am, and who I am will never be a Christian.  Nobody in my uber Christian community can accept that but all their pressure can no longer bend me to their will or to their gods. 

[bfuddled]

Yeah, I

 

 

You sound a lot like me, like your brain doesn't shut off and you analyze and reanalyze things and think them to death.

 

I haven't totally left the church yet, for the most part because I haven't gotten up the courage to totally "out" myself, and I don't have much social interaction besides family/work except that that I get thru church.

 

Reading as much as I can about the problems with Christianity and listening to audiobooks/podcasts that talk about atheism have been a big help to me. I recently started listening to The Thinking Athiest and I really like him. He is an ex christian as well, so a lot of the topics he covers deal with issues for people leaving the church.

 

Stick around here and read/post. This place has been awesome for me, especially since I don't have many IRL people I can talk openly with about this yet.

 

It was easy for me to leave the church I was at originally because they had just been taken over by a larger church.  My husband and I weren't happy with the new church but we gave it many months before deciding to leave.  I started getting angry and at first I thought it was just how they ran things (and the fact that it was the same building with all the same people but with different leaders) but I found after I took a few weeks off, and went to a church I liked and didn't make me angry, that the nagging was still there.  We were invited to another church our friends started going to and it was very small and the people super nice but that nagging wouldn't go away.

Finally I told my husband I wasn't going to church anymore. I haven't been back since.  We went to bible study that one last time and we both felt uncomfortable (which I think was more to do with our own projection than the actual group)

In any case I have no one in real life to talk with either (other than my husband, but he could care less, has never read the bible, wasn't brought up with religion, and liked church more for socializing anyway) we both miss the friends we made.  But I really don't feel comfortable talking to them because based on comments they made about people who don't believe the last two times I was there, I already know what I am going to get

I wish there were other ex-christians near me I could talk to.  As it is, until we got active in that last church, we really didn't have any friends here.  It sucks.

Finding this site and other blogs has helped me but it would still be nice to talk to someone who understands.  I do have one atheist friend but she lives many states away and was never a christian, so she doesn't understand, and is hard to get on the phone in any case.

 

Yeah, I hear ya. I live in a pretty rural area and grew up here. My mom was the children's pastor at our church for 10 years and although my parents have backed of considerably from their level of involvement, they're still seen as some of the founding members of our church. Having been in the church long enough to see what happens when people  "go astray".. the prayer chains, the attempts at reconvertion, the pitying glances/comments.. I know what is in store for me when I actually get the courage to come out.

 

I don't know if you live in a rural/small area, but I found this site today (he mentioned it on the Thinking Atheist podcast) and they have groups for people in the deconversion process. There's none in my area, but maybe you'd have better luck?  It looks like they're even working on starting a 1-800 hotline, but it's not up yet.

 

You could always pop into the chat (up top), usually there's someone in there in the evenings. it's better than nothing!

[StruggleWithin]

I did the same thing.  Read the Bible and turned away for good.  If the Bible is a reflection of god and his people, I simply am appalled by it.  There is no way I could be part of it anymore just like there is no way I could do anything completely against my own character and desires.  It is a lonely path to trod.  My adoptive family see nothing but beauty even in the most atrocious Bible passages.  They are god-zombies "god is good all the time all the time god is good, even when he's not."  I know I am seeing things clearly and they are not.  Leaving church was such a relief.  From childhood onwards I was completely miserable there.  The sermons were either terrifying, boring or made no sense at all.  The bible was like a foul tasting poison being poured down my throat.  Every part of me rejected this.  I have decided to just, be who I am, and who I am will never be a Christian.  Nobody in my uber Christian community can accept that but all their pressure can no longer bend me to their will or to their gods. 

 

I guess I was lucky in that the churches I went to the sermons were not bad at all.  No, I take that back, there was one where it was very off putting and I never went back.

For a few weeks I was thinking it was ok to still go to the church I liked but, now that I no longer believe at all it is tedious to sit through.  I pick everything apart the whole time.

It was the same with bible study, I used to love going and the last few times all I did was pick it all apart in my head and feel uncomfortable.

 

 

Yeah, I

 

 

You sound a lot like me, like your brain doesn't shut off and you analyze and reanalyze things and think them to death.

 

I haven't totally left the church yet, for the most part because I haven't gotten up the courage to totally "out" myself, and I don't have much social interaction besides family/work except that that I get thru church.

 

Reading as much as I can about the problems with Christianity and listening to audiobooks/podcasts that talk about atheism have been a big help to me. I recently started listening to The Thinking Athiest and I really like him. He is an ex christian as well, so a lot of the topics he covers deal with issues for people leaving the church.

 

Stick around here and read/post. This place has been awesome for me, especially since I don't have many IRL people I can talk openly with about this yet.

 

It was easy for me to leave the church I was at originally because they had just been taken over by a larger church.  My husband and I weren't happy with the new church but we gave it many months before deciding to leave.  I started getting angry and at first I thought it was just how they ran things (and the fact that it was the same building with all the same people but with different leaders) but I found after I took a few weeks off, and went to a church I liked and didn't make me angry, that the nagging was still there.  We were invited to another church our friends started going to and it was very small and the people super nice but that nagging wouldn't go away.

Finally I told my husband I wasn't going to church anymore. I haven't been back since.  We went to bible study that one last time and we both felt uncomfortable (which I think was more to do with our own projection than the actual group)

In any case I have no one in real life to talk with either (other than my husband, but he could care less, has never read the bible, wasn't brought up with religion, and liked church more for socializing anyway) we both miss the friends we made.  But I really don't feel comfortable talking to them because based on comments they made about people who don't believe the last two times I was there, I already know what I am going to get

I wish there were other ex-christians near me I could talk to.  As it is, until we got active in that last church, we really didn't have any friends here.  It sucks.

Finding this site and other blogs has helped me but it would still be nice to talk to someone who understands.  I do have one atheist friend but she lives many states away and was never a christian, so she doesn't understand, and is hard to get on the phone in any case.

 

Yeah, I hear ya. I live in a pretty rural area and grew up here. My mom was the children's pastor at our church for 10 years and although my parents have backed of considerably from their level of involvement, they're still seen as some of the founding members of our church. Having been in the church long enough to see what happens when people  "go astray".. the prayer chains, the attempts at reconvertion, the pitying glances/comments.. I know what is in store for me when I actually get the courage to come out.

 

I don't know if you live in a rural/small area, but I found this site today (he mentioned it on the Thinking Atheist podcast) and they have groups for people in the deconversion process. There's none in my area, but maybe you'd have better luck?  It looks like they're even working on starting a 1-800 hotline, but it's not up yet.

 

You could always pop into the chat (up top), usually there's someone in there in the evenings. it's better than nothing!

 

Thank you for that link, actually there is a group within 25 miles of me.  I will consider trying to attend a meeting, if I am able to make it for the time they have listed.  

[Ellinas]

Welcome.

 

I'm afraid feelings of isolation and doubts about whether you are going the right way are pretty well inevitable.  The doubts will pass by constant repetition of good sense - I found it worthwhile formulating a brief resume of why I could not follow the Christian faith any more, and repeating it whenever the doubts intruded.

 

The isolation may take a while to sort.  Sounds like you may have found a possible solution, however; also, have you any interests that might be reflected in groups near to you?  Some contact with people outside of any specifically religious or atheist context may be of benefit - a taste of normal life (whatever that might be...)

[Orbit]

If you have a journal, write down the reasons why you don't believe any more, to solidify them in your head and so you can refer back to it later. Just writing can help, and knowing where to find a rationale for when you're shaky is good, too.

[Blood]

I am 100% over christianity.

 

Congratulations. It sounds like you devoted way more effort to taking the religion seriously than most "Christians," who don't even read the Bible. That's good, because you can defend your position better when someone tries to criticize you (which will be often --stay firm and stick to your guns).

[wyson]

I think what you are really saying is that you are already an unbeliever, at least in Christianity, but you are afraid of change and what might come next. You are afraid of giving up your friends and social groups, and don't want to give up the familiar and known. In fact, during your adult life, you became so embroiled in Christianity, you know nothing else.

 

If so, welcome to the club! There are loads of posts on the forums here to help you!

 

My life totally went down the pan when I first gave up Christianity. It was because of religious trauma. I wasn't functioning properly as an adult, yet had adult responsibilities. Instead of having a practical, organised mindset, I was preoccupied with big questions and my own emotional distress. I missed bills, rent payments, neglected my responsibilities, wondered around aimlessely a lot, and was just generally lost. I literally felt like a child who just lost his parents, parachuted into a foreign land unable to speak the local language, not knowing anyone. This was deeply distressing. A therapist would have helped immensely during this stage. This state didnt leave for ages, until a period of healing was kick started by reading Leaving the Fold by Marlene Winell. If you find yourself in your current state for many months without improvement, maybe you can call her or find another therapist who understands religious deconversions. I wish I took this step early. It would have saved me years of agony.

 

Maybe you can figure it out yourself, but again if you arent managing to improve after a few months, please do seek professional help. Good luck to you.

[Amethyst7]

OMG, I **SO** get this. I have been there in spades. I know anything I say won't change your feelings, but I'd still like to say "don't feel isolated." You're not. In fact, I wonder how many of your Christian friends are secretly having the same doubts as you!

 

You re simply in the middle of a proceess. It has to run its course but it's pretty awful. One day you'll wake up and not be afraid of hell anymore, and you'll be on your start to a new life. <3

[wyson]

I would also like to put some perspective on the god is punishing you thing.

 

1) You are more likely to have accidents and have things go wrong when you are in a state of stress or emotional distress.  

 

I work with a road safety charity.  They advise you never drive if you are not in a relaxed frame of mind as when you are in a state of even mild stress, let alone emotional turmoil, you are less able to perceive dangers / things going wrong and less able to avoid problems when they occur.  Accident data show this to be a statistical "fact".  It happens to everyone, not just ex-christians!

 

Unfortunately, if you confused as hell right now, you have to expect more things than usual to go wrong.  The sensible rational side of you has to step in to minimise the fallout.  ie.  Its best not to make major life decisions in this state, or try to do something new and complex, or drive across state to visit a relative etc.

 

2) Things in the world happen of their own accord, and sometimes you get caught up in it.  Its part of human psychology that you put "conscious actors" as the source of random natural events because this would have facilitated the survival of your cavement ancestors... its something Richard Dawkins goes into in the God Delusion.  Over time, how many homes would have been infected with the same bugs you have and to how many people?  Its unfortunate you have now joined their number, but really, are you just caught up in a natural event that isn't convenient for you, or is it the malicious act of a supernatural force?  Maybe you can look into the causes for your bug infestation and talk to pest control.  I bet your bottom dollar, they will tell you its common in your area, or for your type of construction or at least that it isn't unusual.  I would bet it happens to god fearing houses, rich houses, poor houses, atheist houses, apparently randomly, but following some natural process that isn't understood by you.

 

Information is your friend!  See what the pest control websites say.  If they don't say "this particular bug only occurs in nature as an extension of the wrath of God", you are probably wrong about the bugs.

[wyson]

Oh yes, my deconversion was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.   I literally had to completely redefine my world view, and motivations to live.  It obvious on Ex-Christian.net that a lot of people have different experiences, but it could be a process that takes years, requiring therapy / professional intervention. 

[StruggleWithin]

Thanks Amethyst, I don't feel quite so isolated as I did at first and I think a lot of it was just "projection" and because sitting silently in bible study listening to them bash atheists etc If they had known I was feeling the way I was I bet one of two things A) they would have toned down the bashing and used language so as to try and get me to see how wrong I am.  In any case I think it is pointless to argue. I don't care about being right and I understand where they are coming from, having been there myself.  Also, unlike christians who feel the need to save everyone I feel no need to save anyone from their ridiculous beliefs  It is SO freeing!!!

 

Wyson,

What you have said has made a LOT of sense!  Definitely out of my comfort zone and change IS hard.  I am coping quite well.  I am reading a lot of blog, books, and forums.  I am not participating much, but I am learning a lot.  Reading other peoples stories definitely helps!

 

Scorpions are VERY common where I am and nearly impossible to get rid of.  I only saw 3 so far but it was just an odd coincidence to me that in the 10 years in this house never seeing one, and boom 3 in a week! They cleared some brush a few houses down, and we have some citrus trees around us that haven't been pruned in years, so it was inevitably going to happen at some point, but of course in my mind, I went to the "punishment" default.

 

The one hard thing is breaking out of the "everything happens for a reason" and "there is a purpose for everything" kind of thinking.  It is slowly trickling away.  

Dropping "god" has been hard too because I still catch myself behaving as if there is some deity watching me and judging me.  Then I have to really think how insane it is to create someone that isn't there, and give that "person" a personality.  "god" really is us all along.

[StruggleWithin]

haha that one of two things was supposed to be A and B but the b came out in the smiley face and I haven't figured out how to edit my posts 

[Aggie]

StruggleWithin,

You make perfect sense.  Glad you found us!

[wyson]

Um, a lot of things do happen for a reason. I don't understand scorpions, but I bet they evolved to like the conditions in the parts of your house they are infesting as they are a good proxy for their natural nests / resting places.

 

I think you would be right if you said a lot of things don't happen for moral reasons, ie the scorpions are a punishment for a sin or other transgression, that there is a supernatural conscious force doling out moral justice and bending the forces of natural or man made systems to effect this justice.

 

Reading more about evolution, how social systems, the economy etc are put together will help you develop a more systemic understanding of things, rather than trying to put a conscious supernatural force enacting some mysterious hidden will as the reason for things. New Scientist magazine is particularly good in this regard.

[wyson]

Isn't weird how a lot biblical punishments are natural phenomena that would have happened anyway?  I mean if you were omnipotent and omniscient surely you would have a bit more imagination, able to think beyond plagues of locusts and floods?.  I mean, how much more believable would the bible punishments be, if say the wrong doers were transported into the future, strapped into arm chairs and made to watch endless reruns of family guy whilst being given a coffee enemas?  Gosh if that was written in the old testament, it would make a believer out of me.  So you would kill two birds with one stone.  1 - dish out an imaginative punishment you could chuckle over and be proud of. 2 - make more believers who can kiss your ass in heaven.  surely if I can see it, he / she can too.

[RipVanWinkle]

StruggleWithin: Everything you said fits well within a pattern for xtians who come here. So you

certainly do make sense. I've been here for about 21/2 years. Some people feel a great release when

they cut the ties with Xtianity. Others feel guilt or fear for a while during which time they work

through those issues.

 

I think those that have lingering issues are in the majority, but I haven't actually counted. Those who

continue with guilt and/or fear I can better identify with. With the deep seated brainwashing Xtians do on their people it's no wonder those issues linger.sometimes for a long time.

 

As I said, I fall in the camp of those who have lingering guilt or fear (alternating). Very few of us

in this camp go back to Xtianity, As we get more and more knowledge about the weaknesses of the faith,

the conflicts and absurdities that fill the bible, these issues fade for almost all of us. And that

fact is very convincing to me. That's because the only thing that exchristians in my camp benefit from by leaving Xtianity is the ever increasing knowledge and assurance that we have been true to ourselves.

 

We are not abandoning ourselves and making gods of a preacher or other clever Xtian who otherwise could have convinced us to follow her or him to the "real god". No Billy Graham or Pat Robertson, etc.did we allow to pretend to us that he talks for god. In other words, for us, we are not Xtrians in order be

free to do anything want, regardless of its affect upon others. We simply refuse to live a lie. That

there are so many folks joining our ranks for that reason is inspiring to me, much more so than to

continue to pretend that I am a Xtian. So knowing what I now know makes it very unlikely that I would

ever return to the faith, Note that I don't say "impossible". I will not make the same kind of mistake

that Xtians make, pretending to be absolutely certain. Welcome and keep coming back. bill

[milesaway]

It isn't easy at first, but as you get more and more time and distance between you and church, it'll get easier. The reason your friend shut you down is b/c you're a reflection of her own fears. Same as the rest of those churchies. The only difference is that they're too ashamed/embarrassed/afraid to admit their fears and be honest about it, whereas you're dealing with your fears face-up. They asked about you only b/c they were curious. Notice how they didn't lift a finger to actually help you with your struggles? Not that they would have been able to offer any help that would be of any quality, they wouldn't, but still. 

 

It's times like these when you find out who your real friends are, and also when you find out exactly how nasty and selfish xtians can be. If any of those xtian friends are able to set aside their superstitions and be a friend to you, then that's great. You're one of the lucky ones! Otherwise, don't be surprised if you find them drifting away and letting the friendship die out altogether. In that case, it's safe to say they weren't friends to begin with, and that's actually a gain in the long run. 

 

You can't unsee the farce for what it is. You can't go back to the not-knowing, no matter how nice it seems from the outside looking in. The good news is, this gets easier. This, too, shall pass.

 

We're out there. We seem to be few and far between, but you're not alone.