I Took The First Small Step In Coming Out To My Wife

[RogueScholar]

Good luck whatever your path. I just went ahead and "dropped the bomb" so to speak and dealt with the fallout. I was tearing my self apart trying to live the lie of two lives and I could no longer pretend to go along with beliefs and thoughts that I though were pernicious. I had to come out and be done with it. Individual mileage may vary however.

[midniterider]

To the unequally yoked, how often is Jesus brought up in conversation by your spouse? How much of an irritant is this for you? Are you expected to engage in the Jesus talk or can you just (pretend to) listen?

 

Could you get away with pretending to be a lukewarm Christian with extreme apathy? :-) Pretend for the spouse's sake to be Christian just enough so they won't worry about your soul? How often would you need to pretend? Would it be worth it?

 

What would be the minimum pretense needed for your spouse to not be worried and not be angry with regard to your belief system? Are you required to initiate prayer, read the bible or any other religious activity?

[Neverlandrut]

 

 

I understand. It just sucks, I guess to be in a place where now you're no longer religious, and your spouse/SO still is. And that person married you because they thought you shared this in common. It would just be at times, overwhelming. I hope you find a good balance, and that you both are able to stay together. If that ends up being in both of your best interests.

It has been a process for me individually to come to terms with the fact that I no longer believe. I didn't expect this to happen. It rattled my world view because now I have to step back and rethink all the things that I previously took for granted like: what is morally right and wrong, what is my purpose in life, what is the truth, what are my goals, etc. It took years to come to the conclusion that I no longer believed and continues to take time for me to process everything that that means. It would have been very traumatic if this had happened suddenly.

 

Bottom line: this realization took years to incubate and is still taking time for me to process. I am going to give my wife that same courtesy of time.

Dido! My transition out of Christianity has been tough on me, so I too want to give my wife the courtesy of time before making any drastic decisions. That said, Deidre, I think you do have some good points. It's nice to read an outside opinion. I see how it can be easy to fall into a position of "slavery" in order to make one's spouse/SO happy, and that would not be right. It's definitely a gradient of cost/benefit analysis. I'm not ready to hit the door on my marriage. I want to give my wife time to process everything so she can decide what she really wants and how she wants to proceed. At the same time, I don't want her to remain unhappy. She did, after all, marry me mostly because we shared the same beliefs. She's made the comment that I'm not the man she married. While that isn't literally true (nothing about how I treat her and the kids has changed), I know what she means. The most important thing about me, in her mind, has completely polarized and she's not sure if she wants to be with me. While I certainly don't want to lose her, I also don't want to "enslave" her by making her feel like as can't leave or that she would be a bad person for doing so. Time will tell.

[DrNo]

To the unequally yoked, how often is Jesus brought up in conversation by your spouse? How much of an irritant is this for you? Are you expected to engage in the Jesus talk or can you just (pretend to) listen?

 

Could you get away with pretending to be a lukewarm Christian with extreme apathy? :-) Pretend for the spouse's sake to be Christian just enough so they won't worry about your soul? How often would you need to pretend? Would it be worth it?

 

What would be the minimum pretense needed for your spouse to not be worried and not be angry with regard to your belief system? Are you required to initiate prayer, read the bible or any other religious activity?

 

My wife knows exactly where I stand. The coming out process was not easy and we fought damn hard to keep our relationship intact, but I think we are past all of that now.

 

She does not bring up God to me at all, and I don't try to de-convert her. It's not that these things are off-limits though. I think it's that we have already talked about them and neither of us feels that there's any point in discussing it further because the other is not likely to change their view.

 

We focus on the positives we have going for us and try not to let our beliefs or lack thereof define us in such a way that it necessitates excluding each other. We don't agree with each other's beliefs, but I think we both have a decent understanding of why the other person believes the way that they do. If there ever comes a day when she wants to re-examine her beliefs, I would be beyond thrilled, but she's not there yet and I don't think my pushing that on her will be productive. Looking back on my own deconversion process, no one was pushing me. I was asking the questions and realizing that the "Biblical" answers weren't satisfying. If she gets to that point, I will have plenty of reading material for her, but if not, I think we can still be happy together because we are honest with each other and we respect each other.

[unsureaboutgod]

When I was a Christian minister, I always tried hard to never be the reason for a non-believer's conversion. If someone asked for my opinion, I'd give it to them, but when talking to people within the context of a Bible study, my goal was to leave my (or anyone else's) opinion out of it. Religious change of any sort is too important to be made simply to please another person.

 

My de-conversion took a long time and was painful. While I'm glad I arrived at the conclusions I did without outside noise or influence, it would have been nice to have had someone to share my thoughts and emotions with, particularly in the early doubting stage.

 

I don't want my wife to de-convert simply because I have. It needs to be her choice made for her own reasons. That's a really big part of this. I know well how tough it is. I intend to be there and support her, even if her conclusions aren't the same as mine.

[Neverlandrut]

 

When I was a Christian minister, I always tried hard to never be the reason for a non-believer's conversion. If someone asked for my opinion, I'd give it to them, but when talking to people within the context of a Bible study, my goal was to leave my (or anyone else's) opinion out of it. Religious change of any sort is too important to be made simply to please another person.

 

Wow. Most pastors I know are the exact opposite. They see salvation (conversion) as so important that they feel the need to take every opportunity to try and win someone. I came from the evangelical side. Kudos to you for respecting people in that way, even as a Christian. You were practicing objectivity then, and you still are now. Sounds like you were already a little ahead of the game, so to speak.

[bfuddled]

 

 

I think some of you make it harder than necessary. If this destroys your marriage, it wasn't really strong to begin with. And that is the main truth you need to all face. If your spouse fights you tooth and nail or shuns you, it is time to ask yourself if the relationship is honestly what YOU want. Lots of you walk on egg shells for your spouses. They're grown fucking women, time for them to either accept your beliefs or not. They have choices too.

 

But marriage isn't a prison. You don't have to stay with people who you can't be yourselves with. To me, this could be more of a wake up call as to if your marriages are as strong as you thought they were.

 

I hope you find peace.

 

 

I realize you have very strong personal feelings about relationships, as you've made similar statements in multiple threads with the same sentiment. All due respect, I think maybe this is a situation that, if you don't have any personal stake or a sense of perspective on, it's easy to give trite/simple answers to and pretend they're somehow definitive.

 

I tend to agree with the principle of what you're saying, but there is a give and take in marriage that involves taking the other person (as well as children) into consideration before making choices. If you don't ever want to have to compromise or adjust your thinking/actions based on another person, then it's probably not the best idea to get married. Fact of the matter is that part of being married is realizing that there is TWO people in the relationship that have needs, and some situations don't allow for both partners to have their needs met immediately.

 

Of course that doesn't mean you sacrifice your own needs indefinitely, and I admit that I have some screwed up thinking in this area that I need to adjust. I am trying to separate my Christian ideas about marriage/being a wife from what I believe is just good practices for relationships, so I may be way off on things. I don't intend to make myself suffer through being silent about my beliefs for a prolonged amount of time, but I value my marriage and I care about my husband, so I want to do this process in the kindest way possible for both of our sakes.

 

Actually, I don't disagree with you. But, at what point, does one allow their identity to be lost for the sake of the marriage? For that is what it sounds like is ''required'' if one is no longer Christian, married to a devout Christian. (but they both went into the marriage as Christians) At what point do you allow yourself to just lose your own identity in order to preserve the marriage?

 

I didn't realize marriage required this. Actually, it doesn't. I'm not recommending divorce, I'm suggesting that good marriages don't require one person to have to live like another person wishes them to.

 

You shouldn't have to live unhappily in order to make another person happy. I believe that if two people truly love one another, each will respect the other. (so long as the other obviously isn't doing something illegal, etc and expects the other person to go along with it. lol) Think we both know what I mean, here. I do respect everything you say here, and I don't disagree. But, I don't think a marriage is worth saving, if BOTH people are not happy in it.

 

 

You know, the more that I really think about it, I know part of what you're saying is right. I have a tendency to put everyone else first to "keep the peace". It's part of who I am, and partly from the teachings of Christianity about how you should act as a wife/mother. I think the basic idea is good (don't be selfish), but it becomes codependent and damaging when you do it at the expense of your own happiness and health.

 

I can't sort out right now what is what and it's maddening and quite lonely. I want to give my husband time to process and I DON'T want to force anything on him, but I feel like there's a big fat lie between us that's blocking any honest interaction.

 

You are right.

 

I want to say, I'm learning about humility through some of you. That is what you are all exhibiting, and it's something I should do more of. I have a friend who told me recently that I hold onto my pride a lot. Like a safety blanket, but in the end, it really won't keep me safe. What??

 

And then, I dumped that friend. Just kidding. lol

 

I understand. It just sucks, I guess to be in a place where now you're no longer religious, and your spouse/SO still is. And that person married you because they thought you shared this in common. It would just be at times, overwhelming. I hope you find a good balance, and that you both are able to stay together. If that ends up being in both of your best interests.

 

For what it's worth, I wish I could be more like you in that regard. I have a tendency to second guess myself and be a "people pleaser". A lot of the time it leaves me feeling taken advantage of and resentful. I know I have no one to blame but myself, because you teach people how they can treat you, and I've taught a lot of people in my life that I won't speak up for myself. I hope, in time, to change that though. Maybe you can give me some lessons.

 

I think the problem I'm having now is that I process things a lot of the time by talking about them, especially with my husband. In this situation, I haven't been able to do that, and this board is really the ONLY place i can talk about it. While it's helped immensely, it's not the same, and it's starting to take a toll. We have always shared and discussed things, so to keep this from him feels extremely dishonest and it's blocking me from having normal interaction, even in things that have nothing to do with religion.

 

On the other hand, I have 9 days left of my final quarter of school, and I'm dealing with finishing a bunch of projects, so I know this would NOT be a good time to bring it up and add to the stress. I don't know how much longer I can avoid the conversation, though. Hopefully I can make it through the next couple weeks.

[Neverlandrut]

Hey bfuddled. I totally understand where you're coming from. My wife and I have had the conversation and the fights that followed. We always talked about everything, but now there is a distance because the most important thing about marriage to her is off limits. We can talk about it, but it usually doesn't go well. I process things by talking them out as well. That's why some of my posts are so long.

[Ellinas]

Midniterider, to answer your questions in turn:

 

To the unequally yoked, how often is Jesus brought up in conversation by your spouse? How much of an irritant is this for you? Are you expected to engage in the Jesus talk or can you just (pretend to) listen?

 

My wife very rarely brings up the subject.  In fact, she's more likely to refer generally to "god" than specifically to Christ, and even that happens... well... not very often... - possibly because, after a rather fraught weekend about 18 months back, she is aware that I have "issues" with Christianity.  She has never sought to find out where that has taken me, and I want to leave it to her to decide when she's ready to find out.

 

Could you get away with pretending to be a lukewarm Christian with extreme apathy? :-) Pretend for the spouse's sake to be Christian just enough so they won't worry about your soul? How often would you need to pretend? Would it be worth it?

 

Pretty well that' what I do - and I suspect she probably knows that it's a pretense, but would rather not admit that to herself.  As to "how often", see below.  As to whether it's worth it, see my post above.

 

What would be the minimum pretense needed for your spouse to not be worried and not be angry with regard to your belief system? Are you required to initiate prayer, read the bible or any other religious activity?

 

Sit silently in a church twice on a Sunday and mumble something largely inaudible before eating at mealtimes.  Personally, I don't find that much of an inconvenience.  True, there are times I could think of better things to do on a Sunday - but it does give me a couple of hours when I can lose myself in my own thoughts or catch up on some sleep (though experience has taught me that I can start snoring at a somewhat embarrassing or amusing - depending on your standpoint - volume).

[midniterider]

One of our associate pastors was often found sleeping during the main service. :-) I think he kept some lousy work hours though.

[LongWayAround]

My wife and I had a fairly significant discussion about my deconversion yesterday.

 

My wife was expressing her concern that her child was getting interested in another religion and that none of my kids seem to be interested in christianity (we both have kids from a previous marriage).  She was concerned about their eternal salvation and asked why I didn't seem to be upset about it.  I told her that I didn't see how a loving god would send people to hell just because they didn't believe the right thing.  I told her it didn't make sense to me that whole nations of people that had never heard the gospel would be bound for hell just because they happened to be born in the wrong place or the wrong time.  She told me that she was very shocked and upset to hear me say that.

 

She spent the next few hours combing the bible to find scriptures to prove to me that god won't condemn people that haven't heard the gospel.  She used the parable of the sower but I told her I was not convinced.  There are other scriptures that directly say you must confess, be baptized, etc. to be saved.  She was crying and said that she felt like it was her fault that I was having these doubts.  I told her that was true that it started when I read the bible through in a year and studied things I didn't understand and that it had nothing to do with her.  She continues to be really upset and more loving than usual.

 

At some point she asked if I still considered myself a Christian and I lied and said yes.  I didn't feel good about it but I know that is going to be a big hurdle to get over.  She also asked if I believed in the virgin birth, jesus miracles, etc. and again I said I did, which isn't true.  I am still taking this slow and dumping the whole deconversion on her at once.

 

We also discussed the bible's stance on homosexuality and slavery.  During the discussion on homosexuality, she said that she has come to believe that it is caused by a birth defect and didn't say it directly but intimated that she doesn't think it is a sin.  That is huge and is a departure from her previous viewpoint.  She went on to say that she doesn't really think about it because it doesn't affect her and it is not related to salvation.  It was encouraging to me that she has become more liberal in her view on this topic.

 

During one point of our long discussion she made the statement that if the bible is not true about one thing that how can it be trusted about anything.  I didn't say anything but this is exactly what has lead to my deconversion.  Once I realized that science doesn't support the flood story, creation story, the exodus from Egypt, etc. and that there is no convincing explanation for the obvious contradictions (Judas death story, story after crucification, take a staff/don't take a staff, etc.) it all rapidly falls apart. Again it was encouraging that she can connect those dots but I am not getting my hopes up.

 

Un-related to our discussion, she has invited the pastor from our church over some night this week to pick up something.  I am concerned she is going to tell him what is going on with me and they will try to save me.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Sounds like you're making progress in a positive direction.  If she and the pastor do end up tag-teaming you, be prepared for an emotionally charged evening.  Once you demonstrate by logic, reason, and evidence that christianity is false, the only selling point it still has is appeal to emotion.  Keep yourself calm and level-headed, focusing only on the presentation of your arguments.  You're not likely to persuade either of them, but holding your own until the end is a victory in itself.  Good luck.

[TrueFreedom]

During one point of our long discussion she made the statement that if the bible is not true about one thing that how can it be trusted about anything. 

I relate to your desire to take it slow, but this seems like a missed opportunity.  She might be closer to her own deconversion than you think.  I'm not judging, but I would not have lied about a literal belief in a virgin birth or resurrection.

[LongWayAround]

I relate to your desire to take it slow, but this seems like a missed opportunity.  She might be closer to her own deconversion than you think.  I'm not judging, but I would not have lied about a literal belief in a virgin birth or resurrection.

 

I have to say, I hate not being completely truthful about this whole thing with my wife.  However, I still think I need to reveal this to her in pieces.

 

My wife's number one requirement when considering someone to be her spouse was that they must be a christian.  Not believing in the virgin birth, resurrection, etc. is a very short step (in her mind) to not being a christian.  I wasn't ready to cross that bridge yet.  

[TrueFreedom]

 

I relate to your desire to take it slow, but this seems like a missed opportunity.  She might be closer to her own deconversion than you think.  I'm not judging, but I would not have lied about a literal belief in a virgin birth or resurrection.

 

I have to say, I hate not being completely truthful about this whole thing with my wife.  However, I still think I need to reveal this to her in pieces.

 

My wife's number one requirement when considering someone to be her spouse was that they must be a christian.  Not believing in the virgin birth, resurrection, etc. is a very short step (in her mind) to not being a christian.  I wasn't ready to cross that bridge yet.  

 

I understand.  Devout evangelical Christianity was priority number one for my wife and I as well.

[Darklady]

 

I relate to your desire to take it slow, but this seems like a missed opportunity.  She might be closer to her own deconversion than you think.  I'm not judging, but I would not have lied about a literal belief in a virgin birth or resurrection.

 

I have to say, I hate not being completely truthful about this whole thing with my wife.  However, I still think I need to reveal this to her in pieces.

 

My wife's number one requirement when considering someone to be her spouse was that they must be a christian.  Not believing in the virgin birth, resurrection, etc. is a very short step (in her mind) to not being a christian.  I wasn't ready to cross that bridge yet.  

 

How long have you been married ?

 

Also, I told my ex husband at the start of a three hour drive... not the right time ...   choose the time carefully  ...

[LongWayAround]

How long have you been married ?

 

Also, I told my ex husband at the start of a three hour drive... not the right time ...   choose the time carefully  ...

 

 

10 Years.  

 

I bet the three hour drive seemed like at least double that.

[Ellinas]

 

I relate to your desire to take it slow, but this seems like a missed opportunity.  She might be closer to her own deconversion than you think.  I'm not judging, but I would not have lied about a literal belief in a virgin birth or resurrection.

 

I have to say, I hate not being completely truthful about this whole thing with my wife.  However, I still think I need to reveal this to her in pieces.

 

My wife's number one requirement when considering someone to be her spouse was that they must be a christian.  Not believing in the virgin birth, resurrection, etc. is a very short step (in her mind) to not being a christian.  I wasn't ready to cross that bridge yet.  

 

 

It's not your job to deconvert her.  It's your job to help her along her path, whichever direction it takes her.  And she will have to work through her thoughts and doubts herself, whatever you say.

 

The softly-softly approach has a lot to recommend it

[DrNo]

Great to hear! Let's hope this is just the beginning!

[sneakyflute]

Slowly revealing your deconversion is like gradually admitting to cheating. Just get it over with so you can either begin a new stage in your marriage or move on. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Slowly revealing your deconversion is like gradually admitting to cheating.  

No it is not.  Likening deconversion to cheating implies that the deconvert had some choice in the matter.  Deconversion is not a choice; it's simply something that happens to a person. 

 

Moreover, if I remember correctly, you once said that you had never experienced deconversion.  If that is the case, then you have no qualifications to speak of deconversion, nor to advise a deconvert what to do about it.

[LongWayAround]

It's not your job to deconvert her.  It's your job to help her along her path, whichever direction it takes her.  And she will have to work through her thoughts and doubts herself, whatever you say.

 

The softly-softly approach has a lot to recommend it

 

 

I have no intentions of trying to deconvert her or anyone else.  I just want to minimize the shock to her of my deconversion and walk her through it slowly.

[Ellinas]

 

It's not your job to deconvert her.  It's your job to help her along her path, whichever direction it takes her.  And she will have to work through her thoughts and doubts herself, whatever you say.

 

The softly-softly approach has a lot to recommend it

 

 

I have no intentions of trying to deconvert her or anyone else.  I just want to minimize the shock to her of my deconversion and walk her through it slowly.

 

 

I wasn't claiming that you were trying to do so.  This was just a train of thought through to the conclusion that you were probably right to tread carefully.  Apologies for any misunderstanding.

[Leo]

This thread has been really instructive.

I recently came out to my wife, first my college aged daughter. Now in my wife's eyes, I got the order wrong and should have told Her before the daughter. Probably so She could (we could?) decide what the best course was to take for me telling the daughter.

One thing that really strikes me as odd, and I am unsettled about: She wishes I had what she calls included Her in the struggle. But, here's the thing: Like so many deconverts, I did not start out with the idea of deconverting. She had brought home one of those checklists of beliefs from the church, where she was getting ministry certified. I answered the questions thoughtfully. And, I made Her cry. No, She did not spit venom. No, She did not tell me I was going to hell. She cried, because in part, She still held onto something I have not been since my early 20s: a young RepubliChristian. Sure, I had "walked away" and then had a "real conversion" again. My answer is that I had a phase where I didn't know what to do with the whole Republican thing not making that much sense, the whole Christian thing having fallen apart for me, but then came back to it when we moved to another state.

Having kids does this: the whole family united front thing and church. But even so, I was never fervent since my late 20s. I think the tears were because part of Her wished I would somehow conform like that. They were real tears, She never uses those to manipulate. So, I started my own journey to figure out what was wrong with me, why I couldn't take the Bible literally and all. And, I went to nonpartisan sources and found the reality of the lack of sources for the texts. That, and I could not reconcile the terrorist god of the Bible with anything other than modern day terrorists.

Anyway, I could never include Her in all this decision making, like She wanted. I didn't know what decision was made, as it were. I arrived at some conclusions: this is hard for theists because they decided, had an experience, etc.

Anyway, I am not interested in hijacking your thread with my story. But I just wanted to say I really understand being delicate, and trying to keep family together. I was just not that one-dimensional as a Christian, and was never 'sold out', at least not since my early 20s RepubliChristian days. For some of us, "being ourselves," as people call it, means preserving relationships we care about. I think cultural anthropology, and evolutionary psychology, would back me on this: human relationships are the most important things we as humans have. We are a very social, very relational species.

And I relate to what you said about her having to come to terms with it. My own Wife has expressed things that remind me of the five stages of grief. She, in Her own mind at least, has lost something. She asks about if I feel like I lost a spiritual connection. No, I haven't felt this, I love Her as I always have, only now I am not guilty anymore for loving Her more than anyone else. That includes invisible entities who are supposed to be first.

The vertigo / dysphoria some feel more than others. I admit mine was very short-lived. But the Christian spouse is the one left with this grief. As rational objectivists, we know it's in their own mind. But as humanists, we know it is really how they feel.

In my case, She is not attending a church regularly. Something I exploited, in a sense, because I didn't want to get into one again, now that the daughter has moved out, only to fail the belief tests again, or be approached yet again with more apologetics. That is their methods towards us engineering types: constant debate attempts to convince us rationally.

I believe at least now She can find some place that will make Her happy. I don't know about yours, but one thing mine told me is She never wanted to be "one of those women whose husband doesn't go to church." She worked in women's ministries before. And we all know what most Christians think of the morals of men who do not go to church.

Side question, as though I have not sidetracked enough already: Why is it so prevalent to see men leaving faiths and women not doing so? One would think, in a patriarchal religion, it would be women running off. But for as patriarchal as Christianity supposedly is, there sure are a hell of a lot of doubters who run around inside, keeping their doubts from their wives, lest they incur her wrath / concern, and the attentions of the local goon squads of would-be elders looking for a project.

We went to even a few fundamentalist Pentecostal type places, and I never failed to observe this phenomenon. I asked around: Apparently I am far from the only male who, when compelled to lead in some male figurehead so-called headship leader thing, privately asked thw women how to do it / how they wanted it. Strange.

Anyway, to the OP and others with spouses, you have my sympathies. O get what others are saying, you can't erode your identity. But for some of us, love is our highest identity and keeping relationships together is really important to us. It's a very individual thing, I guess. And I am grateful to be in my home state of Oregon again, instead of Florida or other Southern locations where atheists have such troubles, and even I did ten years ago, as a "double-minded Christian."

[LongWayAround]

I recently came out to my wife, first my college aged daughter. Now in my wife's eyes, I got the order wrong and should have told Her before the daughter. 

 

I really thought about coming out to my kids first because I know they would all support me but I also knew my wife would feel somewhat betrayed if she wasn't the first that I told.  Sure enough, after our conversation last weekend, she asked if I had told anyone else.

 

Side question, as though I have not sidetracked enough already: Why is it so prevalent to see men leaving faiths and women not doing so? One would think, in a patriarchal religion, it would be women running off. But for as patriarchal as Christianity supposedly is, there sure are a hell of a lot of doubters who run around inside, keeping their doubts from their wives, lest they incur her wrath / concern, and the attentions of the local goon squads of would-be elders looking for a project.

 

For my wife and I, we each approach religion from a different viewpoint.  She processes it more on an emotional level whereas I approach it from more of an intellectual angle.  It is easy to see in that scenario why I would be the one to leave the faith.