No Shit Sherlock

[Roz]

Reply from my pastor, I thought I would post this in the Den (because hey, the Den's fun). 

What struck me funny is the part highlighted in red.

 

 

 

Roz, before you open this- No matter where you are at with God or disbelief in God, your greatest opportunity to understand some of these Texts and quotes from the Spirit of Prophecy will be to read it prayerfully beforehand and afterward.  Unless you are open to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit- all the logic in the world that you can muster will fall way short.

 

Just for clarification:

Spirit of Prophecy = Ellen White's writings (now christians, do you believe in Ellen White?)

Voice of the Holy Spirit = same Holy Spirit that led Ellen White to write (plagiarize) her books, and the same Holy Spirit the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons believe led their leaders to make up all their doctrines

 

Here's my question, christians.  Why are you so sure about your own beliefs when they inevitably clash with another christian's beliefs?  If you can't answer this, think about it before going out to convert people into your flavor of christianity.

[Ravenstar]

It's another "just believe then it will all make sense" ploy.

 

[Aries256]

Stupid isn't it? Well shit if I believe enough odin and the fsm is real too lmao

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

Because the Spirit of Prophecy only works if you're gullible and incapable of critical thinking. Don't ya know that faith trumps those things and is the only way to find out what's true and what's not?

[midniterider]

Reply from my pastor, I thought I would post this in the Den (because hey, the Den's fun). 

What struck me funny is the part highlighted in red.

 

 

 

Roz, before you open this- No matter where you are at with God or disbelief in God, your greatest opportunity to understand some of these Texts and quotes from the Spirit of Prophecy will be to read it prayerfully beforehand and afterward.  Unless you are open to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit- all the logic in the world that you can muster will fall way short.

 

Just for clarification:

Spirit of Prophecy = Ellen White's writings (now christians, do you believe in Ellen White?)

Voice of the Holy Spirit = same Holy Spirit that led Ellen White to write (plagiarize) her books, and the same Holy Spirit the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons believe led their leaders to make up all their doctrines

 

Here's my question, christians.  Why are you so sure about your own beliefs when they inevitably clash with another christian's beliefs?  If you can't answer this, think about it before going out to convert people into your flavor of christianity.

 

Read it prayerfully = Turn off critical thinking, turn on emotion, allowing endorphins to circulate, giving sense of religious experience. Remember, the Holy Endorphin Spirit will temporarily shut down the critical thinking mind so in this state all the logic in the world will fall short. But it's usually like that when you're stoned on brain chemicals.

[florduh]

I am willing to temporarily suspend my disbelief so I can enjoy a play or movie, but I cannot suspend the rational process indefinitely, which is what religion requires. Believing in magic is fun, but believing in reality is even better. I think everyone should try it.

[Roz]

I don't think everyone is physically capable of believing in reality, to be brutally honest.  I'm sorry Henry, if you read this, but one of your last posts before returning to christianity was "don't you atheists feel alone and vulnerable?"

 

Some just need to believe in a sweet lie than accept reality.  

[DrNo]

"Read it prayerfully beforehand" = Make sure to evaluate the evidence with as much bias as possible.

[bfuddled]

He admits himself that IT WILL NOT MAKE SENSE LOGICALLY.. so if you value logical thinking, you apparently can't reconcile Christian thinking.

[amateur]

DON'T USE LOGIC!

DON'T USE LOGIC!

 

Starting with his first sentence:  Even if you DISBELIEVE in god, you need to pray before and after reading this.  Already, I can see why you will need to check your logic at the door.

 

Also he says "your greatest opportunity to understand some of these Texts . . .," notice he does not say you WILL understand them, because he means that if you do not understand it, it is YOUR FAULT and your prayers weren't strong enough.  He already knows you will not understand it, and has already set up his strategy to throw it right back on you!!!

 

I wouldn't bother talking to this pastor again.  I'd be polite and say hi and smile nicely and walk on.

[ironhorse]

Reply from my pastor, I thought I would post this in the Den (because hey, the Den's fun). 

What struck me funny is the part highlighted in red.

 

 

 

Roz, before you open this- No matter where you are at with God or disbelief in God, your greatest opportunity to understand some of these Texts and quotes from the Spirit of Prophecy will be to read it prayerfully beforehand and afterward.  Unless you are open to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit- all the logic in the world that you can muster will fall way short.

 

Just for clarification:

Spirit of Prophecy = Ellen White's writings (now christians, do you believe in Ellen White?)

Voice of the Holy Spirit = same Holy Spirit that led Ellen White to write (plagiarize) her books, and the same Holy Spirit the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons believe led their leaders to make up all their doctrines

 

Here's my question, christians.  Why are you so sure about your own beliefs when they inevitably clash with another christian's beliefs?  If you can't answer this, think about it before going out to convert people into your flavor of christianity.

 

I'm a fundamentalist in my core beliefs. By this I mean that there

are a few essential teachings of scripture that are beyond compromise.

 

They are:

 

-There is only one true God revealed in three expressions---Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (commonly known as the Trinity).

 

-The Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. As God's son Jesus was both human and divine.

-That humans willingly fell to sin–ushering evil and death, both physical and spiritual, into the world.

-That any person can have restored fellowship with God through 'Salvation' (trusting Christ, through faith and repentance. Salvation by grace, not of works.

 

I do not clash with any other Christian who holds to these fundamental beliefs. I'm game to discuss and debate issues that Christians differ on, but if we don't agree, it does not affect my faith.

[Roz]

 

I do not clash with any other Christian who holds to these fundamental beliefs. I'm game to discuss and debate issues that Christians differ on, but if we don't agree, it does not affect my faith.

 

 

Believe what one wants to believe regardless of anything contradicting those beliefs. 

 

You're right, you just described christianity.

 

You'll probably never understand the graph below, but on behalf of all freethinkers to christians, thanks a lot.

[ironhorse]

 

 

I do not clash with any other Christian who holds to these fundamental beliefs. I'm game to discuss and debate issues that Christians differ on, but if we don't agree, it does not affect my faith.

 

 

Believe what one wants to believe regardless of anything contradicting those beliefs. 

 

You're right, you just described christianity.

 

You'll probably never understand the graph below, but on behalf of all freethinkers to christians, thanks a lot.

 

 

"Believe what one wants to believe regardless of anything contradicting those beliefs."

 

You are either not reading my statement or understanding it.

 

 

 

Regarding the graph: http://thevoyages.blogspot.com/2009/10/mythbusters-christian-dark-ages.html

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Thanks for the graph Roz, nice.  Neatly explains the tragedy wrought by xianity.

[Roz]

I'm capable of thinking the way you think right now, I was a christian.  Your interaction here in these forums show that you actively reject anything that's at odds with your beliefs. 

 

You believe what you want to believe regardless of what reality says.  It's ok, IH.  I hope someday you're cured of your mental disease.

 

You post WLC when his writings suit you.  You post other christians when their works suit you.  No regards to any contradictions they might have.

 

It's cafeteria style christianity, but then again isn't all religion the same?

[Roz]

Christianity and science:

http://richardcarrier.blogspot.com/2006/11/science-and-medieval-christianity.html

 

Islam and science:

[ironhorse]

I'm capable of thinking the way you think right now, I was a christian.  Your interaction here in these forums show that you actively reject anything that's at odds with your beliefs. 

 

You believe what you want to believe regardless of what reality says.  It's ok, IH.  I hope someday you're cured of your mental disease.

 

You post WLC when his writings suit you.  You post other christians when their works suit you.  No regards to any contradictions they might have.

 

It's cafeteria style christianity, but then again isn't all religion the same?

 

I post writings of people I think are speaking a truth.

 

I actively seek the truth on all matters. I'm not in a mindset to reject truth when I find it

even if it does shatter a previously held belief. 

 

But I realize that life is short and I will never find the answer to all things or be

able to explain all things, but I accept that there is a God and he has revealed 

himself in Christ.

[Roz]

 

 

but if we don't agree, it does not affect my faith.

 

 

I actively seek the truth on all matters. I'm not in a mindset to reject truth when I find it

even if it does shatter a previously held belief.

 

I really hope that you'll seek treatment for the cognitive dissonance you're displaying right now. 

[FreeThinkerNZ]

 

I actively seek the truth on all matters. I'm not in a mindset to reject truth when I find it

even if it does shatter a previously held belief. 

But when we show you historical sources about the crusades, the inquisition, and witch trials, you still maintain your belief that all those sources aren't telling the truth that xianity was spread by force.

[ironhorse]

 

 

I actively seek the truth on all matters. I'm not in a mindset to reject truth when I find it

even if it does shatter a previously held belief. 

But when we show you historical sources about the crusades, the inquisition, and witch trials, you still maintain your belief that all those sources aren't telling the truth that xianity was spread by force.

 

 

 

To say that atrocities were committed by some during the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the witch trials.

I agree. Almost all of these crimes were ordered by a state church. That is a true statement.

 

To say that Christianity was spread by force is false.

[TrueFreedom]

 

 

 

I actively seek the truth on all matters. I'm not in a mindset to reject truth when I find it

even if it does shatter a previously held belief. 

But when we show you historical sources about the crusades, the inquisition, and witch trials, you still maintain your belief that all those sources aren't telling the truth that xianity was spread by force.

 

 

 

To say that atrocities were committed by some during the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the witch trials.

I agree. Almost all of these crimes were ordered by a state church. That is a true statement.

 

To say that Christianity was spread by force is false.

 

 

How did it spread then?  Put up or shut up already. Provide specifics.

[Roz]

To say that atrocities were committed by some during the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the witch trials.

I agree. Almost all of these crimes were ordered by a state church. That is a true statement.

 

To say that Christianity was spread by force is false.

 

 

In other words:  No "true" christian spreads his/her message by force.  Sure there were "christians" who forced people, but "true" christianity never did that.

 

No True Scotsman?  That was the awaited IH defense? 

[duderonomy]

Gosh, Ironhorse, I'm glad you chimed in. Why anyone would give a sh*t anymore what you think is a wonder to me.

 

Having said that, I do think it makes sense that if atheists like Joseph Stalin or Pol Pot or Mao or whomever were only mass murderers that just happened to be atheists, then it might also be true that the crusaders and those in charge of the inquisitions just happened to be Christians, or maybe Christians in name only.

Maybe some historian here could explain about illiteracy and how the church only taught in Latin that most people couldn't understand what the whole God thing was supposed to be about and that they had to listen to their Popes and preachers and Kings and Queens, much like today most people listen to what their governments tell them about wars and health and 9/11 and the evils of those other people and what's good for their children to eat and what's not good for them. 

 

Just sayin' that to thicken the soup a little.

 

Maybe Roz and IH could just point their respective pastors here to this forum so we could all cut out the middlemen and get down to where the rubber meets the road. 

[Guest end3]

Seems fair Roz that an open mind is somewhat a necessity for belief. To your question, we are all in a different place and what speaks to us with respect to "holy" could be specific to circumstance and perspective. Is that the HS speaking to each? Good question.

[Roz]

So this something that 'speaks' to people, says different things to people, is the christian 'holy spirit.'

 

Believing that one wants to believe again.  This is the same holy spirit that:

• The catholic priests and inquisitors had that tortured people in the dark ages
• The evangelicals now have that tells them to inject their own brand's creation story in public education
• The protestants now have that tells them to push back against gay marriages purely on biblical grounds
• The Israelites had that told them to kill tens of thousands

Is this the HS speaking to each?  It's a dumb question.  Look at history and see what very religious 'holy spirit' filled societies have accomplished.  Did you even watch NDT's bit concerning what Islamic fundamentalism did to the once intellectual hub called Baghdad?  I doubt it.

 

Your holy spirit inside of you is your own sword in the field.  You desperately want to believe this christian story, so you cherry pick bits and pieces of it until you have created something unique to you.