Neverlandrut Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 if everyone is..NOT perfect then that is agreeign with the bible when it says people are...NOT perfect. But the question is WHY cant we be perfect? why? because we are human? why cant humans be perfect? what makes us NOT able to BE perfect? What do you mean by perfect? That's the real question. Perfection does not literally exist. It is a mental construct, a hypothetical standard we can make comparisons against. It's like infinity. Nothing is infinite. Infinity does not actually exist anywhere (so far as we can tell). It is a mathematical concept that helps us make sense of numeric scales. "Perfection" is the same way. Not to mention there are multiple definitions of perfection. No matter which definiton you choose or make up, it is alway possible to imagine a way of improving that "perfect" condition. It could alway be better just like infinity is always farther away. Therefore, it is unattainable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 if everyone is..NOT perfect then that is agreeign with the bible when it says people are...NOT perfect. But the question is WHY cant we be perfect? why? because we are human? why cant humans be perfect? what makes us NOT able to BE perfect? What do you mean by perfect? That's the real question. Perfection does not literally exist. It is a mental construct, a hypothetical standard we can make comparisons against. It's like infinity. Nothing is infinite. Infinity does not actually exist anywhere (so far as we can tell). It is a mathematical concept that helps us make sense of numeric scales. "Perfection" is the same way. Not to mention there are multiple definitions of perfection. No matter which definiton you choose or make up, it is alway possible to imagine a way of improving that "perfect" condition. It could alway be better just like infinity is always farther away. Therefore, it is unattainable. Good points, though I wouldn't say that nothing is infinite. I have to suspect that space is infinite. I mean, how could there be an edge to space? But it is true that perfection is an illusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverlandrut Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 if everyone is..NOT perfect then that is agreeign with the bible when it says people are...NOT perfect. But the question is WHY cant we be perfect? why? because we are human? why cant humans be perfect? what makes us NOT able to BE perfect?What do you mean by perfect? That's the real question. Perfection does not literally exist. It is a mental construct, a hypothetical standard we can make comparisons against. It's like infinity. Nothing is infinite. Infinity does not actually exist anywhere (so far as we can tell). It is a mathematical concept that helps us make sense of numeric scales. "Perfection" is the same way. Not to mention there are multiple definitions of perfection. No matter which definiton you choose or make up, it is alway possible to imagine a way of improving that "perfect" condition. It could alway be better just like infinity is always farther away. Therefore, it is unattainable. Good points, though I wouldn't say that nothing is infinite. I have to suspect that space is infinite. I mean, how could there be an edge to space? But it is true that perfection is an illusion. Thanks! Actually, the idea that space is infinite is heavily debatable. If you read a bit on cosmology, or listen to Neil Degrasse Tyson, Laurence Krauss, etc, the Big Bang theory suggests that space is finite. It began with a singularity and is still expanding. This would suggest that there is an edge to space. What might be beyond the edge? Anything at all? I have no idea. That's a big question in science night now. These are concepts and questions I'm not really qualified to speculate on. I just know what some theoretical physicists are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I rate "Very Dull" on the Apostate's Evil in Thought, Word, and Deed ScaleTM. When I was a xian, I rated "Very Dull" on the Xian's Evil in Thought, Word and Deed ScaleTM. I may have to rename myself "sub-amateur." This could very well have been me posting this. If there were a competition for "World's Most Boring Human," I think I could make it to the semifinals at the very least. I just noticed this, Thought2Much! To me, being evil seems like sooooo much work, as much work as trying to be perfect! The best I can work up is "fairly naughty," and on the other side I can be "fairly decent"! I'm quite happy the way I am. "Boring People Unite!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 if everyone is..NOT perfect then that is agreeign with the bible when it says people are...NOT perfect. But the question is WHY cant we be perfect? why? because we are human? why cant humans be perfect? what makes us NOT able to BE perfect?What do you mean by perfect? That's the real question. Perfection does not literally exist. It is a mental construct, a hypothetical standard we can make comparisons against. It's like infinity. Nothing is infinite. Infinity does not actually exist anywhere (so far as we can tell). It is a mathematical concept that helps us make sense of numeric scales. "Perfection" is the same way. Not to mention there are multiple definitions of perfection. No matter which definiton you choose or make up, it is alway possible to imagine a way of improving that "perfect" condition. It could alway be better just like infinity is always farther away. Therefore, it is unattainable. Good points, though I wouldn't say that nothing is infinite. I have to suspect that space is infinite. I mean, how could there be an edge to space? But it is true that perfection is an illusion. Thanks! Actually, the idea that space is infinite is heavily debatable. If you read a bit on cosmology, or listen to Neil Degrasse Tyson, Laurence Krauss, etc, the Big Bang theory suggests that space is finite. It began with a singularity and is still expanding. This would suggest that there is an edge to space. What might be beyond the edge? Anything at all? I have no idea. That's a big question in science night now. These are concepts and questions I'm not really qualified to speculate on. I just know what some theoretical physicists are saying. Well, I'm no scientist, so my thoughts don't carry much weight. However, the notion of an edge to space makes absolutely no sense to me. As you said, what would be beyond the edge? Space is just nothingness, and that nothingness would seem to me to have to continue on. Perhaps the real issue here is the definition of "space." If by "space" they're referring to the cosms as a collection of the stars and planets and all physical matter, then sure, there could easily be an end to it. But beyond that edge, I don't see how there could be an end to space (in the sense of an area of nothingness). It's not like the Bible's dome is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverlandrut Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 if everyone is..NOT perfect then that is agreeign with the bible when it says people are...NOT perfect. But the question is WHY cant we be perfect? why? because we are human? why cant humans be perfect? what makes us NOT able to BE perfect?What do you mean by perfect? That's the real question. Perfection does not literally exist. It is a mental construct, a hypothetical standard we can make comparisons against. It's like infinity. Nothing is infinite. Infinity does not actually exist anywhere (so far as we can tell). It is a mathematical concept that helps us make sense of numeric scales. "Perfection" is the same way. Not to mention there are multiple definitions of perfection. No matter which definiton you choose or make up, it is alway possible to imagine a way of improving that "perfect" condition. It could alway be better just like infinity is always farther away. Therefore, it is unattainable. Good points, though I wouldn't say that nothing is infinite. I have to suspect that space is infinite. I mean, how could there be an edge to space? But it is true that perfection is an illusion. Thanks! Actually, the idea that space is infinite is heavily debatable. If you read a bit on cosmology, or listen to Neil Degrasse Tyson, Laurence Krauss, etc, the Big Bang theory suggests that space is finite. It began with a singularity and is still expanding. This would suggest that there is an edge to space. What might be beyond the edge? Anything at all? I have no idea. That's a big question in science night now. These are concepts and questions I'm not really qualified to speculate on. I just know what some theoretical physicists are saying. Well, I'm no scientist, so my thoughts don't carry much weight. However, the notion of an edge to space makes absolutely no sense to me. As you said, what would be beyond the edge? Space is just nothingness, and that nothingness would seem to me to have to continue on. Perhaps the real issue here is the definition of "space." If by "space" they're referring to the cosms as a collection of the stars and planets and all physical matter, then sure, there could easily be an end to it. But beyond that edge, I don't see how there could be an end to space (in the sense of an area of nothingness). It's not like the Bible's dome is real. I admit, I don't understand it either. It's all very fascinating though! I could speculate all day and not come any closer to a good understanding. I wonder if, given relativity, if one were to venture far enough away from any gravitational source (past the collection of stars, planets, etc, as you say), would time speed up so fast that it causes anything in that area to cease to exist. We know gravity slows time down. We exist in a significant gravitational field. Perhaps that could be an edge to space? Also, I can say "nothing" does not exist. Dark matter and dark energy theories are suggesting that there may be no such thing as a void of nothingness. Perhaps all of space is filled with some substance or other at various points. I'm really feeling the need to buy Krauss's book A Universe from Nothing now! I love thought experiments and bouncing ideas around like this, but at the end of the day, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 if everyone is..NOT perfect then that is agreeign with the bible when it says people are...NOT perfect. But the question is WHY cant we be perfect? why? because we are human? why cant humans be perfect? what makes us NOT able to BE perfect? The Bible's claim that people are not perfect is not a great prediction. That is like saying water is wet. It is a very obvious observation. The reason we can't be prefect is that there is no perfect in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverlandrut Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 if everyone is..NOT perfect then that is agreeign with the bible when it says people are...NOT perfect. But the question is WHY cant we be perfect? why? because we are human? why cant humans be perfect? what makes us NOT able to BE perfect? The Bible's claim that people are not perfect is not a great prediction. That is like saying water is wet. It is a very obvious observation. The reason we can't be prefect is that there is no perfect in the real world. Plus the bible simultaneously says that no one is righteous and that Job was upright in all his ways, as well as Enoch. Contradictions contradictions! Of course, the "no one is righteous part" was a quote from the old testament about a time when all of Israel had turned from god. It was specific to those people at that time. So, you can't really make a good case that the bible says every one is imperfect. Of course the idea that the bible is literal truth is fooy. The point is that "perfect" is an abstraction, not a reality. It is a relative description depending upon a subjective and circumstance dependant definition of what "perfect" even means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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