directionless Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Some Christians believe God tests our faith by ignoring us or very rarely gets involved in our lives. Why would God test our faith when he already knows the answer? Is it for our own benefit? If so, then why did he design us such that our well-being depends on stroking his ego? Is the omnipotent creator of the universe that insecure? Conversely, why are we not allowed to test him, since we don’t know the answer? "Why would God test our faith when he already knows the answer? Is it for our own benefit? If so, then why did he design us such that our well-being depends on stroking his ego? Is the omnipotent creator of the universe that insecure?" Cousin Ricky The omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient God are characteristics that Mark Twain satirized in one of his essays or short stories. I don't remember it's name; perhaps someone else here does. As I recall, it was letters from one of satin's agents on earth. The agent was reporting to his boss. He said something like, "You won't believe what they [chistians]admit about their god.They say He is omniscient and omnipotent, yet see nothing wrong in His failure to use those powers to better mankind." It was either ironhorse or End3 who commented recently that, "Just because god is omnipotent does not mean he is going to use those powers," Wow, what logic. God would use his powers to rig the outcome of a baseball or football game in answer to prayers, but will not use them to prevent the initiation and result of a plague capable of killing millions. "His ways are better than our ways." Sure they are. Does that mean we should be more concerned about the outcome of a game of football than the spread of a deadly epidemic? bill All that omni-this and omni-that is from theologians in ivory towers imagining God. The approach I take is to look for signs of God in my own and other's experiences of life. I look for something vaguely God-like without narrowing the definition so much that I miss him if he isn't the way I expected him to be. But this is just how I approach the problem, because it makes sense to me. Everybody is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I wish we could find some historical evidence to resolve the mystery of Christianity's origins. Agreed - not that it would convince them otherwise.To paraphrase the famous Lazarus parable, "If they do not listen to evidence and the science of reason, they will not be convinced even if Jesus was not risen from the dead." I just wish they could see past their fears for a moment and have a closer look at what they believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 SighChristianity - welcome The way I see it: Judaism was the suppression of polytheism by the imposition of the cult of a single national deity; the use of names such as El, Adonai etc. all point to an origin in polytheism, not the traditionally vaunted use of multiple titles. Indeed, some such names appear in other pantheons (my understanding is that "El" is Ugaritic) Even Baal (and yes, I do know that this is not a name ascribed to the Hebrew god) ultimately signifies little more than "Lord". The ancient Hebrews, by some process, managed to create a worship of a supreme national deity that has been the foundation of various forms of intolerance ever since. Christ may or may not have existed. Personally, I suspect we have a caricature of one or more historical figures - social campaigner, renegade, rabbi - all mixed into one. In the first century that caricature was - whether genuinely through personal belief or cynically through a power trip - developed and preached as an outward looking successor to Judaism by various persons including the one we now call "Paul". In that process, which would have developed as "converts" imposed their own ideas also, pagan ideas were syncretised into this new faith. This link is to a website which claims to set out such pagan influences - make of it what you will: http://pocm.info/ And yes, a fair bit of that was guesswork - but, in the end, any deity who wants me to comprehend a historical development of "truth" presumably would have done a rather better job of it than the provision of a morally bankrupt tale of murder, genocide and divine egotism, so my version is certainly no worse and probably a whole lot better than the biblical version. The issue for you has to be "what makes sense?" To reach that conclusion - and it may be a very different conclusion to mine or to that of anyone else on this site as it is purely personal matter of how you see the world - you have to put aside the fears, the insistent cajoling voices, the prejudiced nonsense that is thrown at you from all and every viewpoint, especially the religious viewpoints that insist on conformity. Does Christianity make sense? If not, is the unknowable history that important? What alternative viewpoint or viewpoints have merit to your (not mine, not your friends', parents', people on this or any other website, but your) mind. I'm afraid Christianity imposes dependence of mind and denies individual thought. It is that which you need to recover. That will take time. All the best, and enjoy the journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthmama514 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 "Why would God test our faith when he already knows the answer? Is it for our own benefit? If so, then why did he design us such that our well-being depends on stroking his ego? Is the omnipotent creator of the universe that insecure?" Cousin Ricky The omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient God are characteristics that Mark Twain satirized in one of his essays or short stories. I don't remember it's name; perhaps someone else here does. As I recall, it was letters from one of satin's agents on earth. The agent was reporting to his boss. He said something like, "You won't believe what they [chistians]admit about their god.They say He is omniscient and omnipotent, yet see nothing wrong in His failure to use those powers to better mankind." It was either ironhorse or End3 who commented recently that, "Just because god is omnipotent does not mean he is going to use those powers," Wow, what logic. God would use his powers to rig the outcome of a baseball or football game in answer to prayers, but will not use them to prevent the initiation and result of a plague capable of killing millions. "His ways are better than our ways." Sure they are. Does that mean we should be more concerned about the outcome of a game of football than the spread of a deadly epidemic? bill Was it "the screwtape letters?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Was it "the screwtape letters?" earthmama514 No. The Screwtape Letters was written by C.S. Lewis. The one I''m thinking of by Mark Twain was "Letters from Earth", if I remember correctly. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthmama514 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I will have to look into reading that. The church I was attending recently did a series on the screwtape letters and so it was fresh in my mind but I couldn't remember who wrote it. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Yeah I know, but Mormon is based off Christianity. Christianity is based off Judaism. and Judaism... who knows. It's a tough call. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place... that's for sure. Christianity is an adaptation of pagan Greco-Roman mystery religion to a Midrashic interpretation of Judaism. But they don't tell you about the mystery religions in Sunday School. The Wikipedia article says that Justin Martyr called the mystery religions a demonic imitation of Christianity. What the article (in its present, possibly garbled, condition) doesn't make clear is that Justin was trying to explain to detractors why Christianity seemed almost identical to the mystery religions that preceded it. (His explanation was that Satan knew God's plans in advance, so he planted these “false” religions ahead of time to trick people.) They don't tell you about the Midrash either, lest you might actually cross-check with the Old Testament and start to figure out why the Jews never took the Jesus story seriously. Judaism is a refinement of one particular tribal religion, whose claim to fame is the evolution of the idea that their tribal god is the only god that exists, and demands exclusive allegience. But they don't tell you in Sunday School that the Israelites were originally polytheistic. Their polytheism is plainly evident in the Old Testament, but it is presented in terms of the Israelites straying from the One True God. This behavior would seem perverse for a people who witnessed their own rescue from slavery by Yahweh, but modern historians can find no evidence that the Exodus ever happened. Modern Judaism appears to be a fusion of the traditions of two rival priesthoods, from the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah, respectively. There is no proof that Christianity stems from mystery religions. Your only proof that Christianity stems from mystery religions is that they are similar in the fact that they're both religions, and hence all religions are alike in the fact that they are religions. Jews never taking Jesus story seriously, well... the Christian explanation that Jews wanted a Messiah that is not the lowest of human beings (Jesus) is better explanation than "Modern historian can't find evidence of Exodus, etc " Too much conjecture in your reply seems like. Christianity is a mystery religion. A secret cult whose secret initiations involved a ritual of baptism where the initiate "puts on the body" of the god/savior figure (who is physically dead but mystically alive) is the very definition of a mystery religion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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