Narcissist Parents

[moanareina]

Wow, it has been a week.

 

First it started off with a conflict with my biological mom that triggered a weird reaction that I had experienced before but never understood. So I ran across this article about complex PTSD that explained my whole life and made more sense than everything I have ever heard or read. Then a friend suggested to me to get some information on adult children of narcissistic parents. That's what I did yesterday and I am blown away. So many lights just went on.

 

I now understand way more about my adopting parents behavior. Also about my biological moms dad, my biological grandfather. Why he treated her the way he did etc. And why my adopting parents treated me the way they did. It is relieving and hurtful at the same time. But it makes all the sense in the world. All the things they said to me and still say to me when I try to address certain events from my childhood...all the sugarcoating my mom does when it comes to how they parented etc. All the others who think my parents are such nice and good people and I might have gotten them wrong etc. Don't know, this is big for me right now. About as big as realizing how Christianity has betrayed me and almost robbed my sanity.

 

Has anyone had some experience like this?

 

So this is my journey so far as to my questions earlier this year about my depressions. Also about me possibly having ADD. It can also be that I just dissociate a lot. The depressions get lighter when the pain can be more up front. I think I really am on to the roots of my problems.

 

I am glad because now I have something that I can go with...even though right now it all is a little overwhelming and I sure could need tons of hugs.

[Ravenstar]

OH YES!!!.. I was raised by a (and only mild) malignant narcissist. It isn't pretty - they wreak havoc wherever they are, and with children   AHHHHHH!!!!.

 

The number one thing that has helped me is to come to terms with the fact that they will never be able to see anyone as a person in their own right… we are only mirrors for their narcissism, or objects to be used for their benefit. They are incapable of love. (well, except for themselves) They are also incapable of reasonable discussion. Low contact or no contact is the only real way to deal with them.. and BOUNDARIES! Building and maintaining your boundaries. Essential.

 

There is a great website for support for people who have BPD's or NPD's in their life… I spent a lot of time there a few years back.

 

But.. I have to go to work at the moment    I'll be back later this evening.

 

HUGE HUGS!!!!

[amateur]

{{{HUGS}}}

 

I have known families where the cognitive dissonance between the reality and, like you say, the sugarcoating the parents lay on years later is unbelievable.  The fighting, dysfunctions, drinking, cruelty, abuse is not just denied, it NEVER EXISTED and YOU are the LIAR according to them.  

 

Boundaries and keeping a safe distance from those toxic people are essential.

 

Keep reading up on it.  Remember:  YOU are not the CRAZY one, YOU are not the LIAR.  You know what you lived through, do NOT let them try to bully you into silence.

[earthmama514]

Oh yes. I believe my mom is a narcissist. The gaslighting is completely horrible. It got so bad for awhile that I truly believed I had made up most of what happened to me.

 

My siblings have complete cognitive dissonance on our childhood. They try to gaslight me about it too! My sister even told me that apparently she was raised by aliens since she doesn't remember any of that or my parents ever doing xyz. I just had to laugh. (Btw I also think my sister has narcissistic tendencies)

 

It's rough. I recommend the book "toxic parents" by Susan forward. It helped me tremendously.

[moanareina]

Thank you guys so much.

 

It is weird because one part of me goes NO WAY. Because there are moments and events and whatever that are like: But they did this and that for you and they just did their best, where overwhelmed with everything...I mean raising five kids isn't an easy task...and it wasn't all that bad.

 

But the other part of me is: YES, this is THE answer! Everything makes sense when I look at it in this sense. Even the weird story that unfolds around my adoption.

 

You know, there is some dark history around that topic in Switzerland...one of those a country tries to hide because it is THAT shameful. Mothers who where not married and had children...even those who became widows or where in a relationship but not married yet where forced to give up their child for adoption. Some where forced to have an abortion or even sterilized. A lot of children came into foster homes where those foster care givers would use them to work for them. Women where sent to prison for having a pre marital baby...and this was all into the seventies...when I was born. My biological mom was not really forced to give me up for adoption but she was talked into it by her father and everyone around her and her father just fixed a date at an office that today is known for not doing everything the right way. As she gave her signature, she was already sorry for having done so when she left that office. Tells a lot I think.

For years now I wanted to go see my documents of adoption but every time I wanted to go and do so I felt this tremendous fear. So I put it on hold. But right now I am in contact with a woman who is in charge of a task force that is trying to bring some justice into the history of forced adoption and I think this might get very interesting for me.

 

I always wondered why my adopting parents have adopted me when not really wanting to go the extra mile and care for me the way I needed to be cared for. I always felt like the extra wheel, never really part of the family but never to the extent I could tell someone and would get some understanding. People always had the attitude of: Oh, how great people your parents are, taking care of you.

 

But blaming me from early childhood on for being hypersensitive instead of trying to find out why that is...I would say is not really care. Also there is the fact that I grew up crossed eyed and everyone knew you could get surgery for that...and my teeth are askew and all the kids around me with askew teeth had brackets except me...even though insurance would have payed for it up to the age of 16...so no extra cost. Every time we went to the ophthalmologist and I needed new glasses which was every time actually there was this negative reaction about having to spend money for me. Actually every time there was something that cost money this reaction was there...and I felt guilty of causing my parents extra cost.

Then when in seventh grade I got bullied at school and of course it was my fault...and even if part of it was my fault because yes, I was hypersensitive they did not understand that this was not something I could just change without the help of someone going through the events that caused that sensitivity. I always wondered how this is possible because when I see a child I just want to hug it and if I see a troubled child, I feel for this child and would never tell him it was his fault for being the way it is...

I always wondered when my parents lost their sense of being responsible for the way a child is developing. I mean, of course when a grown up is doing weird stuff it is not the was to blame it all on the parents, but a child...how can you blame a child for being too sensitive? Or to nod have any kind of humor...whatever else I heard and is still so deep in my personality I could not get those 'voices' out of my head. I don't believe them anymore but they are still there and when someone accuses me of some of those things I react to it and it makes me insecure, like, maybe my parents where right...

 

Now today when we have a family gathering my mom sometimes comes up with events and then is like: It wasn't really bad I did this this way when I consider the fact that bla bla bla...or when I see how this person bla bla bla...

When it comes to the role I played in this family it is always positive. Like I was the one who always was imaginary and kept my brothers playing with me for hours while this gave her space and time to do what she needed to do etc. This makes me think...oh, and why did no one ever tell me? So I was the useful tool that kept my mom from going crazy because of being overwhelmed?

 

And there are so many times I brought up some event and my mom goes: Oh, you have a better memory than I do. Or: No that is not true. With high intensity but no real argument on her side. Followed by a: You have always been sensitive.

Or highlighting how great this other girl is, spending much time with other girls my age but not with me. Doing so called youth work...not really including me though.

 

There was one Christmas (every Christmas goes a little psychotic but this one was really going crazy in my opinion) when my mom was like: "This Christmas I have no story because when I thought about what story to tell you I just felt weary and down because I know you (to my brothers...I was still entangles heavy into religion) don't believe anymore and the thought of you being lost and spending eternity some place else troubled me so much. This is why Christmas has turned into a sad celebration me not really wanting to celebrate."

I was sitting there and even then, still religious to my toes I felt like this is somehow weird. Because this isn't at all about my brothers. It is about her. And only about her. We all left with weird feelings and the next day I took all my courage and tried to reach her by phone and if she had been there I had told her to seek a psychiatrist...

Then later on I felt like I was a bad person for even thinking to tell my mom such a thing. But understanding now about how narcissists work I understand that I was in no way overreacting and too sensitive at all...and even though she would not have understood when I told her to go see a psychiatrist, she actually would be in need of one...

 

It is weird. I am processing so much right now. On friday I felt all that pain from understanding that there really never was real love from her side...just the way I felt so many times as a child. That I was right about that. It hurt a lot but it also released me. Because I now understand I really am not the crazy one who got it wrong and can't tell when someone loves me and when not. I really thought I was so broken I could not even distinguish the ones who care from those who don't.

 

I always felt bad to talk about my mom that way...like telling people about the negative stuff and why I HAD (not because they threw me out or so but because I just could not take it anymore) to move out when I was 22 and I would have wanted to move out way earlier if I could. There was so much tension in the house all the time. I used to blame it on my parents non existent relationship and weird religious believes but I now guess there is more to it.

So I always felt like I would exaggerate when telling people and that my memory has been flawed due to being over sensitive and not yet processed wounds from my pre adopted time. Especially when people know my parents. But it all makes so much sense now. I am glad we had two neighbors who could not stand our parents and told me their observations without me ever asking them. They just came to me once and told me. How they never understood how my parents where neglecting me so much. I once went out and one of those neighbors was driving past me and asked if I needed a ride. I did not really need a ride because it is faster to go into the city by train but took it anyways. What he told me blew me away. He was like: If you ever go out and have no way to get home at night, just give me a call, I ll pick you up. Of course I never dared to take this offer and I was suspicious about his intentions but I could not really believe what I just heard. I once called my parents when I was not able to make it home (I was 18) and it was 11pm. My dad picked up the phone and was mad at me that I called this late at night and woke my mom who had sleeping issues...so I told him I just called because I did not want them to worry...and he was like: We did not worry. WOW.

 

And people are always: But your parents are such nice people.

And why do they never have people visiting?

Why do they have no close friends?

Like all those who where once close friends distanced themselves from them...

Ah, yes, it is because my dad is a working horse and has no time for that...

And my mom too has so much going on...

Bullshit!

 

And then people tell me I would hold on to my past. But actually my past is holding on to me...because I really did EVERYTHING I knew to let go. To forgive. To make peace. To not be bitter.

And now I understand why this is. Why my past still lives inside me. And this makes all the difference.

 

Gaslighting...yes I know that. In a very subtle and non provable way. So much that my mom talked me into an apprenticeship I would NEVER have come up on my own...suffering for three years and when I addressed it to her she was like: This is not true, I never talked you into anything, you came up with this yourself and wanted to go with it. When one of my brothers was doing his apprenticeship I once asked him if he liked his profession. He was like: It isn't my profession, it is mom's profession. I was shocked and at the same time confirmed. Because I thought she only did this to me...but she did it to them too.

And I always wondered how she got all my brothers into indoor hockey. She started to train children in indoor hockey and then indoctrinate them with christianity...that was her calling...or what she thought. She is still doing it. The training. Not sure about the indoctrination of if she gave up on that. But when she started this, she involved all my brothers, first to train and later on to be trainers. This always seemed a little off to me.

 

Oh my, there is so much coming to my mind now as I write and it all makes so much sense. 

Thank you for reading if you made it all down here .

 

Had to get this off my chest.

 

Thanks for the virtual hugs too

[bruisermel]

Definitely big hugs for you. If you're anything like me the eye-opening moment is exciting and exhilarating (there's a reason for me to feel the craziness I feel around these dysfunctional people!!)...but then comes the "now what do I do with this information!?!?"

 

It took me 34 years to have my eyes opened like yours are...this was just 4 months ago or so...and it started through a post on this forum much like you are doing! I found some good information at Outofthefog.net (I think Ravenstar suggested it!)--it helped explain and define the dysfunctional behavior I grew up with and helped show me my "fleas" to work on from having been raised in such a way. It was helpful to spend some time on the blogs to hear similar stories and how people have dealt with similar situations. 

 

I want to encourage you to keep learning, and to be patient with yourself as some big changes may be ahead for you--this new information MAY even be more life altering than when your eyes were opened to the bogus-ness of religion!  My coming out of religion happened just 15 months before my eyes were opened to the dysfunctional family network i was enmeshed in (this has been a big couple of years for me recently )--I didn't think anything would rock my world more than leaving christianity, but this did. You MAY have some big decisions coming up now with what to do with this information...(i.e what sort of contact to have with dysfunctional family members, if any)...I would suggest not rushing into any decision (unless you are in a dangerous situation, of course!) as your thoughts and feelings and ways of looking at your family and relationships will likely be evolving a lot over the next few months as you learn and process information.  

 

You mentioned possible ADD as well...may I suggest one more site with helpful information: drhallowell.com. I am a family physician myself and pretty skeptical of a lot of "doctor websites" and I haven't searched the whole site for validity/science-based recommendations, but I do like the information found through this link: http://www.drhallowell.com/adult-adhd-50-tips-of-management/

[TrueFreedom]

A friend who hasn't been active here for a while wrote two blog entries on this subject recently.  Enjoy!  http://godlessindixie.com/2014/06/19/its-not-me-its-you-children-of-christian-narcissists/

[RipVanWinkle]

moanareina: That's great. It's good to have reason for hope and I hope it works out for you. If you have access to that article about narcissism I'd like to have a copy. My father in law was narcissistic, so

I'm interested in what the article says. bill

[TrueFreedom]

*hugs* ((moanareina))

[moanareina]

moanareina: That's great. It's good to have reason for hope and I hope it works out for you. If you have access to that article about narcissism I'd like to have a copy. My father in law was narcissistic, so

I'm interested in what the article says. bill

 

bill

 

The stuff I read about narcissism was in German and it was all just google search. So I think you need to look up the other sites people here suggest for that or do your own research. I would be happy if I had a good link for you.

But I can share the link to the article about complex PTSD and if your father has been narcissist I guess it might be an eye opener as well. So here it is:

http://www.marlenewinell.net/managing-emotional-flashbacks

 

And thank you all for the informations. I ll check em out.

 

And yes it is getting bigger than I thought. The more I think of everything, the more sense it makes.

 

bruisermel thank you for the link about ADD. I ll have a look at it as well. The thing is, as I was a child I was always late for school because I just needed more time to get going then others. Then I spent hours on homework even though it would have been a thing of fifteen minutes. And I had to repeat second grade and almost repeat fourth grade. I was never stupid, teachers told my parents I could if I wanted to...

 

And just this year I did my degree that allows me to go to university (I am 37 by the way...) and I know I could have done this back in school. Preparing for those exams though I experienced ADD moments a lot. Like starting to read a text and two lines into it I caught myself being somewhere else with my thoughts. And I realized I do this a lot even when talking to people. Often times when someone is telling me a story I need to figure what he just said from what the sentences are he is just telling me...and if I can't reconstruct I have to let the person know I did not listen to the last few sentences. I feel very selfish when this happens because it looks as if I am only thinking about myself. But it happens unintended. So I think it is either ADD or dissociating. That is very possible because I remember times when I told people jokes and no one was laughing until I realized I only told the end of the joke thinking I have told the whole joke...and when I was with people I sometimes went completely away in my thoughts just staring into the room and then coming back and it was like when you wake up from a dream and are like, oh where am I... Fortunately I was able to stop doing that stuff...but it still happens on a smaller scale.

 

Thanks for everyone. I am really grateful for this forum and people who make me feel normal because the past two weeks I felt like I was crazy and no one told me...only giving me hints on my craziness...because everyone is too polite to let me know that I was completely off.

[wanderinstar]

Moanareina, I am so sorry to hear your story, So much trauma and pain to bear. I really feel for you and wish I could help but I can think of nothing special to say. I am glad you are here with us. Keep posting, if it helps and we will do our best to support you. Growing up with a Narcissistic parent is incredibly challenging. My brother in law is very narcissistic and the way he treats his children is reprehensible. It tears me up to watch. Thankfully my sister has left him to keep her children safe from him. I wish you all the best in life. Take care.  

[Scottsman]

This actually makes me realize something about my parents.

My mother always said she only wants two things for me.

That I accept Jesus.

That I marry a good christian woman.

Those two things would make her happy.

 

Notice the lack of my happiness. Now i realize she couldnt care less about my happiness.

 

When I have children I will care about only two things.

Their happiness

Their health

 

I dont care if my daughter gets a phd and then marries a garbage man. If my kids are happy and satisfied with their lives I feel I will have done a good job as parent. I dont have kids yet but hope to someday.

[bfuddled]

I was diagnosed with ADHD in my 20s and it made a LOT of things make sense. Girls tend to fly under the radar with ADHD because we don't act out the same way boys do. A hyperactive boy may be bouncing off the walls, but a hyperactive girl may just talk a lot, or their brain just won't quit (that was me). It may also manifest as anxiety. In my case I was diagnosed with an anxiety disorder and put on antidepressants when I was an adolescent. It helped some, but did nothing for the ADHD symptoms. It wasn't until I was diagnosed with ADHD and started a stimulant that I realized how much it had affected me my entire life.

 

There were a few books that really helped me, This One and this one are great to start with to really understand how ADHD affects every day adult life. Also anything by Hallowell, Russel Barkley, or Melissa Orlov is great too.

 

I also watched this video which describes me to a T and gave me a word for what I've experienced my whole life:

 

 

I have extreme anxiety, but it's (for the most part) NOT a feeling anxiety, it's a result of my brain going a million miles an hour all the time, nonstop. It's cognitive anxiety, and it's a result of ADHD.

[moanareina]

Thank you wanderinstar

 

It is weird because when you grow up the way I did you always sense there is something wrong and not the way it is supposed to be but at the same time it is your normality and so it is hard to step back and see how big the mess actually is...and this is when it gets overwhelming. And then you go back and when you see your family or think about them like you always did you are like: Ah, I guess I just went crazy and it is not all that bad. But I don't want to do this anymore. I want to see what really is.

 

At the moment I am thinking about my dad...what kind of disorder he is having. Because to me he is like rock. I have no relationship with him at all. And he can say very unloving things that trigger an enormous emotional reaction with me...and this is why I hardly ever communicate with him. My mom acknowledges that but then she protects him by saying how much trouble his business is giving him etc. That was always the excuse for his behavior actually. He is just working too much...having lots of responsibility. Makes me kinda upset when I think about it.

 

You know, It feels a little weird to write this all because I am going towards 40 and still have parents issues. But then again there is this deep pain that has never left me even though I always worked on my personality. And I get accused of living in my past etc. What I totally am not doing. I just try to find the key to solve some issues I am dealing with on a daily basis because I want to become happy and have friends and maybe find a partner having a life...and so far the leave your past behind etc. approach did not work for that.

 

Scottsman

yes, care for your own happiness, that is essential. If you have children or plan to have em, it is crucial that you yourself are happy. That is actually what I aim for. And so far I have hope to get there because I can see things now without having to blame myself. That is what leaving Christianity has done for me I don't have to blame myself anymore for my shortcomings. I can say to myself: I ALWAYS have done the best I could! It may not have been the best other people thought I had to do but for me, I did what I knew to do and I did the best I knew. I could not have done it any better because I simply could not have done better.

And no demons, no angels, no devils...no hidden sin...thats the best part for me .

 

bfuddled

Thank you for the informations and the links. Thing is, if I have ADD it is without hyperactivity. I have always been very quiet and calm and people described me as a dreamer or dreamy. Even though I would like to be wild and all...it always bothered me to be that calm and quiet.

Sometimes I get very uneasy within but I started to observe when that happens and try to relax in those moments and it helps. It mainly happens when I am at work and it is boring as hell because there is not much to. But I plan to get tested in January after I took down my deductible on my insurance plan. But I noticed too when I drink coffee sometimes it also helps me with depression and low motivation. Unfortunately coffee is kinda unpredictable and sometimes it helps me feel great and other times it makes me feel miserable or I lay awake at night.

 

And now this is off topic I guess but yesterday I posted about being atheist on facebook and it felt so good...I wonder how many people will delete me from their friends list now, haha. But by now I got some real cool folks who gave me their support. Unfortunately most of them live far away.

[amateur]

Moanareina, please don't worry that you're getting close to 40 and still have parents issues, because you are now dealing with them!  It doesn't matter your age, it matters that you are dealing with it in a healthy way (not just repeating what they did or trying to twist your brain to their logic or taking up drinking or drugs to escape the craziness).  And it is SO MUCH better that you're dealing with it now, when you are in the prime of your life, rather than getting to your last few days on earth and realizing that something was amiss all those years.

 

I just finished reading your updates on here, and I'm so glad you're facing up to all of this.  You are so brave.  Even posting your atheism on facebook and realizing it is all up to you, no more blaming god or the devil or hidden sins . . . that's brave and facing reality!

 

You go!!!!  

[moanareina]

Thank you amateur

 

I think the worries are because I feel like I have never really grown up...and I guess to some extent that is true. Feeling like a child in many ways but adding years. When I was in my twenties I always felt as if I had never really had a youth. The important time someone needs to become a mature adult. I felt like I had to grow up in an instant not really ready to do so.

It also feels weird because I always tried to deal with my issues...but while I was in this fucked up religion I could never see them for what they where. And even my first years out of this mindfuck I still needed time to understand the underlying mechanisms and to be able to understand that it had not so much to do with me not wanting to let go of the past or not wanting to forgive or anything like that. That it was not my fault I am the way I am...and that I don't have to feel guilty or bad for not being able to see the good my parents have done for me...to be thankful. I tried. And I tried hard. And my emotions did not let this happen. And now I understand why. Also I don't have to. And I don't have to feel guilty for that. Even if there have been people who had it worse.

 

I guess it is the time to be angry for me right now. Really. Fuck Religion. Fuck this fucking stupid mindset. It is all so twisted.

[moanareina]

Just as a quick update...I feel like I get out of the pit again...

 

And no, it does not mean that I abandon my plans of getting professional help. It just means that another weird emotional rollercoaster is coming to an end and my mind is more clear and I can be more reasonable with my decisions. Also I feel more alive again and am able to get out and do stuff and that helps because not doing anything and just sitting home all day is part of the problem...but when in that stage of a depressed episode I just can't. It is like something is keeping me inside and even if I overcome that something and go out it is not really helping and I feel immobile.

 

Thank you all for being here and helping me feel normal and human.

[Androo]

...not doing anything and just sitting home all day is part of the problem...but when in that stage of a depressed episode I just can't. It is like something is keeping me inside and even if I overcome that something and go out it is not really helping and I feel immobile.

 

Thank you all for being here and helping me feel normal and human.

I know that feeling exactly. Like nothing in the world is interesting or worth doing or caring about. My wife wants me to talk to a counselor but when the feeling passes I never imagine it will come back.

[moanareina]

 

...not doing anything and just sitting home all day is part of the problem...but when in that stage of a depressed episode I just can't. It is like something is keeping me inside and even if I overcome that something and go out it is not really helping and I feel immobile.

 

Thank you all for being here and helping me feel normal and human.

I know that feeling exactly. Like nothing in the world is interesting or worth doing or caring about. My wife wants me to talk to a counselor but when the feeling passes I never imagine it will come back.

 

 

Yes and I always blamed myself for it...but I remember those moods from adolescence and I am sure I had them before but just did not understand it back then. What I remember was, that I cried a lot especially when I was trying to sleep in because I felt deeply unloved. When my mom came to see what was wrong she was like and I was like: You don't love me. She was like: That is no true. Gave me a hug and I got calm again...but that was the only time I got hugs and told that they loved me...so the emptiness stayed and my feelings felt wrong because they where denied. And when I became a teen I just got confused...

It is crazy, I so often fantasized when I went to bed how I would be disabled and everybody had to take care of me. Or how I was involved in an accident and everyone would visit me at the hospital. And also how I was a criminal persecuted and captured, escaping and captured again to be beaten and bound and it gave me some erection to think those stuff...though I did not understand what an erection was...haha. For a long time I had masochist fantasies that gave me a kick but at the same time made me feel more isolated and lonely. And I felt guilty for having them. But all this gave me the excitement I was lacking. As an adolescent I spent most of my spare time in bed...It is crazy just to think about it all. And I am sure glad I am not that confused teen anymore.

 

 

OK, and now...a family gathering is coming up this week...one of my brothers birthday...and I am going. I will see how I feel when we are at the restaurant. Usually when my brothers are around it is OK but I still feel like something within me is in constant alarm mode. Though I have that all the time actually. So I started to tell myself, whenever that inner restlessness comes up, that I was safe. That I was in peace with myself. It helps so far to get back to what I know as normal...I just don't know if it will help with my family. I will see.

[amateur]

^^ Good luck with the family gathering -- we'll be thinking about you.

[RenaissanceWoman]

 

...Usually when my brothers are around it is OK but I still feel like something within me is in constant alarm mode...

 

 

I totally get this. It's hard to shake even as a self-aware adult. The pit of your stomach, the back of your neck, the muscles in your shoulders and all down your back.

 

I want to thank you for this thread. I went to the website OutOfTheFog as someone suggested, and there in black-and-white was my mother on the narcissist page. Every. Single. Word. Suddenly everything made sense. All the pain, fear, powerlessness, confusion, guilt, shame came flooding back -- but then I suddenly felt released from it, and the tables turned as if I have the power now. I have the knowledge. I am grown up and moved away, and I can make choices now for my safety and sanity. And I can now look for the tools and tips to help me finally cope.

 

I then read about the Scapegoat, and there I was in black-and-white. Oh my, that was painful. So many memories. But I am comforted to know that this is real, and it's not my fault. I see myself in some of the coping mechanisms -- mainly perfectionism, over-achieving, and easily being taken advantage of in that regard. (And oh... how the church was able to use and abuse me, and I kept coming back for more, looking for love and acceptance but never being good enough for them.) That explains some of my adult mistakes and bad experiences. Hopefully I can use this as a starting point for improving my own life, reactions, expectations, relationships.

 

I have read and understood everything you have said here. Just know that you are not alone. I, for one, can completely empathize with you. It's exciting to find someone like you, as sick and twisted as that sounds. Hey, someone else suffered like I did, hurray. LOL. It's comforting to know I am not the only one, not crazy, not to blame. I hope that makes sense.

 

I hope we can both find peace on this new twist in the road on our journey of deconversion and self-discovery. Odd how the childhood junk plays together so nicely with abuse and misuse in our religious lives, huh? Maybe now the puzzle pieces will start to come together.

 

At your family gathering, just keep this thought in the back of your mind if things get uncofortable for you: I can't wait to report back on this nonsense. Ha ha! I will be curious to hear your experience and revelations.

 

Here we go. Onward and upward.

[moanareina]

Thank you RenaissanceWoman

 

Actually it went well with the family. We went to have lunch at my moms favorite restaurant...to celebrate my brothers birthday...and as we where there it all of a sudden became a celebration of everybody. Like the graduations of my brothers girlfriends my birthday that comes up next week etc. Or that was what my mom all of a sudden came up when we where about to go and get our food...I just thought to myself, why can't we just celebrate my brothers birthday? And: I guess that is just another part of the disorder. To not fully value the cause why we meet. Interesting.

And one situation my mom brought up something from the past and it was the usual talking herself good thing. The issue I have with calling my mom fully narcissist is, that it is never too much, just enough to make me feel odd but also to call that odd feeling overreaction. Though I am not going there anymore. I just tried not to listen and it was interesting that the rest of the family including my brothers girlfriends where not really interested in the story and soon we where talking about all kinds of stuff. So I guess I am not the only one who feels that way.

 

I have been on that forum and also started two threads. But somehow I felt like I did not really fit there. I am not so much a I am saying this and he said that and then I said this and then bla bla kind of person. I want to understand the mechanisms and causes and I appreciate good inputs. But I don't have to dwell on that stuff and go on and on. Whatever I think it is a good forum nonetheless and the site has good information on the matter.

 

I think when I read your posts about how you manage your life and all like you are way further down the path than I am. But that can also just be my perception because I often feel like I have failed in so many ways and am trying to survive. Like since I have been a child I have been a messy and while there have been times I was more or less able to maintain a certain order in the chaos my apartment now looks worse then ever. I hate it. Also I know at times when I feel emotional stable I clean up without even thinking too much about it. Then I have an amazing education...I am a trained graphic designer and I have studied at one of the best known schools for good designers. But I do airport security instead...I have tons of great ideas and I know I would be capable of making them work...just I have not really had the inner strength. So understanding about why that is and why I am having difficulties to bond with people and all makes me feel hopeful to actually work on it all. It felt very liberating to understand that my parents are disordered. It was hurtful but also liberating to understand that when I felt unloved as a child it was not because I was too sensitive but because it was true. But it also helps to see my parents in another way. Like disordered people who try the best to live their lives. They don't understand how they hurt others. Maybe they never will. But they would live a different live if they could. Because I can see they are not happy.

 

Actually it has been a guy I know who wanted to spend a day with me to find out what I really wanted to do with the rest of my life. So I agreed and we went a day train riding through Switzerland. While we talked he started to understand that it wasn't as easy as with others. That I did not have that dream deep down that somehow just needed to be awaken. But we still have found a fun business idea and concept. Though I have not been able to get started on it. I think I first need to work on my childhood traumas first. It is as if there is something within me holding me back. Anyways, he told me I should look in my childhood, what I loved and all. Remembering my childhood though has always been painful because there have been painful emotions attached to it. Even when I try to remember the good times, the times I enjoyed. It feels as if those times never really existed even though they did. But since he thought that was a good idea I thought I might give it a try. And so I went to the place I grew up, walked through that town, through the neighborhood the school patio. It was weird. But it was the start of discovering more and more until the past month when my birth mom triggered that emotional reaction I did not understand where it came from but knew from former occasions when people hurt me on that deeper level I had no control over. The traveling through Switzerland with this guy has been spring last year. And it is crazy how I just got here...understanding so much more and having something at hand finally to work with.

 

It has been in that year that someone told me about a guy who does meditations to meet your inner child and find peace with the people of your past. I started to listen to this guy and while I can't accept everything he is saying most of it makes much sense and so I signed up for a week they offer. It is kinda expansive but if it will bring some change with it I guess it will be money well spent. And if not I have spent money for worse things. And I want to check with a psychiatrist about other possible ways to deal with this stuff. But that has to wait for January.

 

So far what helps me right now to keep more or less stable is to constantly tell myself that I am safe and that I am a good person, always have been and always aimed to be a good person.

 

And yes religion played very nicely into it. What troubles me a bit right now is the thought of who actually is normal and who is disordered. Somehow I feel like I have grown up in a pool of disordered people. Using and abusing. And the normal ones retired from our family and lives...there have been some and I remember one guy of our church who told my parents he thought I needed more hugs. He even told me. All of a sudden he was not a friend of our family anymore. I never knew why until now...

 

And sorry if I just blabber...somehow my childhood memories can get so vivid that I feel like that child again. But I don't want to always talk about me. Especially since this is all way past.

 

Thank you again for understanding. It sure is a crazy world we have grown up in.

[OsborndaleIvanhoe]

Wow, it has been a week.

 

First it started off with a conflict with my biological mom that triggered a weird reaction that I had experienced before but never understood. So I ran across this article about complex PTSD that explained my whole life and made more sense than everything I have ever heard or read. Then a friend suggested to me to get some information on adult children of narcissistic parents. That's what I did yesterday and I am blown away. So many lights just went on.

 

I now understand way more about my adopting parents behavior. Also about my biological moms dad, my biological grandfather. Why he treated her the way he did etc. And why my adopting parents treated me the way they did. It is relieving and hurtful at the same time. But it makes all the sense in the world. All the things they said to me and still say to me when I try to address certain events from my childhood...all the sugarcoating my mom does when it comes to how they parented etc. All the others who think my parents are such nice and good people and I might have gotten them wrong etc. Don't know, this is big for me right now. About as big as realizing how Christianity has betrayed me and almost robbed my sanity.

 

Has anyone had some experience like this?

 

So this is my journey so far as to my questions earlier this year about my depressions. Also about me possibly having ADD. It can also be that I just dissociate a lot. The depressions get lighter when the pain can be more up front. I think I really am on to the roots of my problems.

 

I am glad because now I have something that I can go with...even though right now it all is a little overwhelming and I sure could need tons of hugs.

 

OMG I could have writeen this verbatim. I had recently found stuff about narcisstic parents. I too am adopted, my mom thinks that we had some amazingly wonderful childhood while we were just ungrateful evil children. I have suffered with depression and ADD too. If you ever want to talk about it just PM me!!

 

MI 

[moanareina]

MI, thank you.

 

Might PM you some time.

 

Hm, right now I somehow think it is that even my birth mom has some severe disorder. Somehow its as if no one I have grown up with has been normal and no one who belongs to my bloodline either. It is hard for me to tell normal people from weird people and it makes life kinda difficult...especially when you meet new people or have to decide weather to keep up with old friends or not. Also to know if I behave weird or not...but I think I am not because I tend to be so hypercritical when it comes to myself. Wanna unlearn but its not that easy.

 

Sigh.

[OsborndaleIvanhoe]

MI, thank you.

 

Might PM you some time.

 

Hm, right now I somehow think it is that even my birth mom has some severe disorder. Somehow its as if no one I have grown up with has been normal and no one who belongs to my bloodline either. It is hard for me to tell normal people from weird people and it makes life kinda difficult...especially when you meet new people or have to decide weather to keep up with old friends or not. Also to know if I behave weird or not...but I think I am not because I tend to be so hypercritical when it comes to myself. Wanna unlearn but its not that easy.

 

Sigh.

 

But what do YOU define as "normal"? If you are looking at the world unable to determine what is normal and what is weird, what are your definitions of each? Maybe cite some examples if it's hard to explain. I have always been deemed "weird", even now and people have said it to my face. We are all a little weird in some way, some people are just better at hiding it and putting up the "normal perfect person" front. Why do you feel that there has to be a differentiation of normal and weird to determine who you get along with and who would be your friend?  I admit, friendships are hard. Especially when they seem to take no interest in you as a person, no interest in hanging out with you or inviting you anywhere, or no interest in reciprocating just the normal things that keep friendships going (i.e. picking up the phone and calling you once in a while and vise versa, inviting you places instead of just you being invited places). If you are weird, oh well. It's who you are and if others can't accept it, than that is their problem. Accept nothing less than people who like/love you for exactly who you are and don't expect you to conform to who they think you should be. I know it's hard! But those are the people that will usually stick with you through thick and thin.