Convince Me To Come Out As An Atheist

[Deidre]

I get it, I do. It just saddens me to read of all these suffering marriages over something that isn't a bad thing, really. Maybe to a Christian, yes...it might be. We were all once Christians, but could you see yourself leaving your partner if he/she came to you with this? Really?

 

There's worse things to ruin a marriage/relationship over, and this just pales in comparison. But, maybe...it feels like a betrayal in the mind of the believer.

 

Marriage, it just seems so, Idk. :/

[Roz]

I hear you D, my parents split because one was catholic and the other was SDA.  Now they loved each other, they were and still are good decent people.  But they split over the different doctrines of religion.

[Roz]

I'm just a human being.

 

Bullshit, you're a Klingon, part of the advance landing party sent to scout our defenses to see which cities are ripe for invasion.

 

Protip for you:  Leave Detroit alone.  We're broke as hell.  I hear Ohio's pretty defenseless and has Six Flags.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

I get it, I do. It just saddens me to read of all these suffering marriages over something that isn't a bad thing, really. Maybe to a Christian, yes...it might be. We were all once Christians, but could you see yourself leaving your partner if he/she came to you with this? Really?

 

There's worse things to ruin a marriage/relationship over, and this just pales in comparison. But, maybe...it feels like a betrayal in the mind of the believer.

 

Marriage, it just seems so, Idk. :/

 

He hasn't said this is a suffering marriage.  They both deconverted, she's not ready to come out, he's being considerate.  Nothing to see here.

[TrueFreedom]

I really appreciate the support. <3  It sounds like most of you agree that advertising it to the world might not be the greatest idea, especially with other unbelievers in the family who prefer to avoid the issue.  I am honest, if not always candid, when asked directly or when related topics come up.  I'm still interested in hearing more reasons pro or con in you think of any.

[Deidre]

 

I get it, I do. It just saddens me to read of all these suffering marriages over something that isn't a bad thing, really. Maybe to a Christian, yes...it might be. We were all once Christians, but could you see yourself leaving your partner if he/she came to you with this? Really?

There's worse things to ruin a marriage/relationship over, and this just pales in comparison. But, maybe...it feels like a betrayal in the mind of the believer.

Marriage, it just seems so, Idk. :/

 

 

He hasn't said this is a suffering marriage.  They both deconverted, she's not ready to come out, he's being considerate.  Nothing to see here.

I see, I didn't know she deconverted. I didn't know that back story.

[TrueFreedom]

 

 

I get it, I do. It just saddens me to read of all these suffering marriages over something that isn't a bad thing, really. Maybe to a Christian, yes...it might be. We were all once Christians, but could you see yourself leaving your partner if he/she came to you with this? Really?

There's worse things to ruin a marriage/relationship over, and this just pales in comparison. But, maybe...it feels like a betrayal in the mind of the believer.

Marriage, it just seems so, Idk. :/

 

He hasn't said this is a suffering marriage.  They both deconverted, she's not ready to come out, he's being considerate.  Nothing to see here.

I see, I didn't know she deconverted. I didn't know that back story.

 

 

I guess I should have given more detail.  My ex-timony is in my signature if you're interested.

[Deidre]

I'm sorry I gave advice not knowing the full story. I will definitely read it. Thanks!

[Roz]

TF, if you want an alternative...

 

1.  Invite your family over to red lobster

2.  Tell them they have to wear polyester blend clothing

3.  Order lobster for everyone!

4.  Make sure to do this on Saturday

5.  Announce to everyone in the restaurant that you're now an atheist, and that you've helped your entire family brake the laws Yaweh set out

6.  Bring out the surprise sacrificial goat to Satan

7.  Sprinkle the goat's blood on the faces of all your family members

8.  ...

9.  Survive in prison.

 

But alternatively you could ask your family for forgiveness, because jesus said for them to forgive 70 x 7.

[TrueFreedom]

Heh, heh.  My family pretty much knows, and my household is pretty much on board with me.  I'm just wondering about advertising it more, whether on a blog, on youtube, in song, in front of a church, allowing myself to be seen and photographed at atheist gatherings, etc.

[Orbit]

The only thing I would be worried about is my job--other than that, who cares what people think? I happen to be lucky to be in a profession where everyone thinks you're an atheist anyway (professor). My view is that if it doesn't threaten your livelihood, be who you are.

[Vigile]

I haven't experienced any of those things in the OP, but I don't live in the south and I don't give a fuck if I associate with xians or not; in fact, apart from old friends and family, I'd prefer not to. 

[Deidre]

 

 

Why should I be ashamed or afraid of any backlash, telling someone I'm an atheist, now?If someone has an issue with it, it's their problem, and not mine. I have lost two friends over my 'coming out,' and while one is sort of making her way back, our friendship will never be the same.But you know what? That's ok. Because I don't want a fake life. I want a real one. If that means I'm standing all alone in it, so be it.Thankfully, atheism is on the rise...it's under Islam, in terms of number of people who identify themselves as such. (globally)Largest group = ChristianitySecond largest group = IslamThird...atheism!

I think having a spouse and children to think of makes a difference.

Deidre doesn't believe in marriage, remember. And she doesn't believe in monogamy, either; so it's likely she doesn't want children, but that's just a guess. Essentially, she would have only herself to be concerned about.

Hmmmm....i don't believe in forever monogamy/commitment. A promise to stay attached to one person forever, legally. If it was a successful paradigm, the divorce rate wouldn't be above 50%.

I look at stats. Lol

 

If over 50% of people die after eating bananas, you'd be wise to avoid eating bananas. You could take a chance and hope you get a good banana, though.

[bfuddled]

I'm on the fence about this, too, TF. I'm "out" to my husband and my side of my immediate family (not my husband's), and I'm debating whether I'm ready or want to really "come out" officially to anyone else. I've gotten in quite a few good discussions on FB lately with Christians, and I'm even in a convo right now with my pastor. If I were to come out definitely as atheist, I think a lot of the willigness to engage in the conversation would disappear, especially from church friends/members.

 

I think initially I was scared that about the judgement that I know will come along with it, but I'm getting over that now, and the hesitation I feel now is more of what you describe, weighing the pros/cons of the situation. I think right now it makes more sense for me to just float along and let people make their own assumptions about what my beliefs are. Anyone who pays attention to the things I'm doing/saying would get the idea that I'm not exactly a "True Believer" anymore.

 

I think that eventually I will "come out" to everyone, but right now I'm going to lay low and see how it plays out with people. If, my marriage ends up not working out I'm sure it will be "outed" for me in the divorce process. My husband's family has a tendency to vilify their children's exes, and I'm sure the fact that I became a heathen atheist would be all the reason they needed to demonize me and blame it all on me. That whole situation should be fun!

 

On the other hand, I DO get the sentiment that coming out as atheist is similar to coming out as gay, in that it helps the community. I do plan to eventually get involved in things and maybe even facilitate a "Recovering from Religion" group in my area, but that's not anything I feel like I could do yet. I think we just do what we feel is appropriate for our situation and adjust as needed, kwim?

[DrNo]

Everyone will have to decide for themselves what they can and can't afford to do in terms of coming out. For some of us, coming out would have very severe consequences (divorce, losing jobs, etc.). For others, there might be some consequences, but nothing you can't handle (losing some friends, e.g.). Still for others there would be almost no consequences. Those that can afford to come out should, IMO, to make it easier for others down the road. The acceptance of homosexuality is an apt analogy, in that culturally we started becoming far more tolerant when people saw that they actually knew someone who was LGBTQ, and they weren't a bad person.

 

Now, it's not like every LGBTQ person came out at once. This was a slow process starting in the 60s/70s (for Americans). A few brave individuals had to blaze a trail. Slowly but surely, more people followed that trail and widened it. But in most cases it was a personal choice after weighing what their heart and head had to say. There are still people for whom the cost is still too high. We have only now begun to see professional athletes come out, for example. But the few that have would not have been able to do so without the culture as a whole becoming more tolerant.

 

So the question we each have to ask ourselves is: is the price too high for me to come out now? What would I be giving up? What would I be gaining? What would future generations have to gain?

 

For me personally, I have decided that if I want to have honest and truly intimate connections with the people I am closest to, this is something that they need to know about me. But in some circumstances, I still haven't come out. I work at a Catholic institution, and though there is a lot of tolerance here for other faiths, I still don't know how they would treat someone with NO faith. So until I find a job I feel more comfortable be open in, I keep that part to myself. Now, I don't pretend to be a believer, mind you, and I suppose if someone asked I would be honest, but I totally get why it is hard for some people to be honest in certain circumstances.

 

That said, if no one stands up and wears the label proudly, then we do fellow atheists and future ones a disservice. How will we ever find acceptance unless those who can afford to risk start doing so?

[Cousin Ricky]

Here are a few that I've heard, but they are not enough to convince me:

 

1. You will stand in solidarity with other non-believers in raising awareness of good people claiming that label and the wide-spread discrimination against them.

 

2. It's the only way to be honest and maintain your integrity and authenticity

 

I might add that simply coming out to everyone as an unbeliever may have kept me from compromising my sanity and optimism as much as I did during and after my own deconversion.

 

 

What say you?

 

Atheist activists have been observing the gay rights movement, and the lesson is not lost on them: the more of us come out of the closet, the more society will be accepting of atheists, and the safer it will be for other atheists to come out. You will have to weigh the costs and benefits to you and your family of being on that vanguard.

 

Mentally, I would not have been able to fake it. The toughest part for me was personally owning the label. I have been an atheist since 2005, but was always hesitant to tell people until the first time I met other atheists en masse, at the Reason Rally and American Atheists convention in 2012. It has been easier ever since. I have been to 3 conventions now, and they have fast become the highlight of my year. I am convinced that they are beneficial to my mental health.

 

Greta Christina has written a book on coming out, in which she surveyed hundreds of out atheists. Some of them suffered severe consequences for coming out, but almost all are glad that they did. Beth Presswood warns that it is best not for people to discover your atheism by accident. (She was outed to her family by a photograph of her at some heathen convention, and the fallout was not pretty.) After hiding for so long, an accidental outing would only confirm in Christians' minds that atheists are a dishonest lot. Should you decide to come out, you will have to keep this in mind while plotting a safe landing. Daniel out of the Lion's Den from the blog had a hard time convincing his wife that he wasn't faking belief his entire marriage!

 

There is one (1) person I felt obligated to come out to: my sister. I had become her daughter's godfather years earlier, and because of the promise that all Catholic godparents must make, I felt I had to be honest with her. Also, she was the last person I wanted to find out through the grapevine. She put her trust in me, and I did not want to betray it. (I will cross that bridge with my goddaughter when I get to it. When that will be only God would know, if he existed.)

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Heh, heh.  My family pretty much knows, and my household is pretty much on board with me.  I'm just wondering about advertising it more, whether on a blog, on youtube, in song, in front of a church, allowing myself to be seen and photographed at atheist gatherings, etc.

TrueFreedom, I've been atheist for almost 11 years now; my immediate family knows and my extended family either know or strongly suspect.  I don't advertise it, other than an occasional facebook post.  I don't wear it on my sleeve because I don't know what sort of ramifications/complications I may cause for myself down the road.  This is America, after all, and atheism is still feared and misunderstood.  Potential employers might unwittingly overlook me due to my lack of faith.  Other parents might tell their kids to avoid Redneck Jr.  Other things.

 

However, if someone asks me, I will tell them the complete and honest truth.

[TrueFreedom]

Though I've considered myself an atheist for several years now, I've never cared for the label.  Why would I want to be identified by something that I am not?  I can appreciate the value of having numbers in the favor of good people who don't believe in gods, but I'm not sure that it will lead to acceptance.  Regarding the gay acceptance analogy, I'm not sure that drawing attention to your opinion that the majority of people are fearful, ignorant and deluded falls in the same category as being attracted to members of the same sex.  I also don't care to take sides with prominent atheists who come across to most people as arrogant patronizing.

 

I brought the topic up with my wife again last night.  She made a pretty good point in stating that she doesn't care about religion anymore, and she doesn't want to discuss divisive topics about things she cares nothing about.  She wants to bring people close and not push anybody away.

[Ellinas]

This is actually quite a complex thread - primarily because the only right answer is the one that is right for the individual giving it.

 

I certainly would not seek to convince anyone to "come out" as anything.  Why would I?  Each to his own, and within his own circumstances.

 

For myself, there are a few people (primarily via the web) who can claim both to know my true identity and to know precisely where I stand.  There is one person within my work circle who knows roughly where I stand in terms of being no longer Christian but without any knowledge of where I've moved since (unless he's stumbled on this website and realized who I am, in which case he knows more than I credit him).  Many, perhaps now most, people in my general circle know nothing of my beliefs or of my Christian past and associations as generally I don't talk about it

 

I keep quiet for two reasons:

1. I am conscious of the distress I could cause my wife.  Like it or not, his is a real issue as the relationship precludes taking decisions on a purely individual basis.
2. It's nobody's business except mine anyway.

 

I would, if the "wife issue" were to be solved, simply tell her of the position and then walk away from the church.  I would only state to others my lack of Christian faith and/or move to paganism if challenged to do so - because otherwise it is irrelevant to any other.

 

The bottom line on this - do what you are convinced is right for you, taking into account your own interests and the interests of others who are relevant to you.  I doubt if any other advice is possible.

[Cousin Ricky]

I've never considered myself to be an "atheist" even though I'm no longer a theist. It's because I've heard so many variations of definitions from self-professing atheists as to what "atheist" means. Some of those definitions contradict each other. The confusion among them is reason enough for me not to identify with and wear a label that I don't fully understand.

 

Then clarify, clarify, clarify. I have lots of labels at my disposal for various situations.

 

In the strictest philosophical sense, I am an agnostic atheist. I do not believe that any gods exist, but I do not claim absolute knowledge.

 

Informally, I’m just a plain atheist. I’m somewhere above 6.9 on the Dawkins scale (depending on which god claim I am confronted with), and some have argued that agnostic atheist is not a useful term with such a high level of certainty about the matter. Nevertheless, just plain atheist has the connotation of absolute certainty for many people, and when I sense that someone is using this definition, I am quick to clarify about my own position.

 

With regard to gods in general, I am a weak atheist. I do not claim categorically that no gods exist.

 

With regard to certain specific god claims, I am a strong atheist. Case in point: Yahweh. For such cases I am willing to take on the burden of proof that such gods do not exist, although this is not strictly necessary so long as the person presenting the given god claim hasn’t met their burden of proof.

 

Edit: My answer on the left to the question “Still have any Gods?” implies that I am also an ignostic atheist, although some ignostics believe that the two terms are incompatible.

 

It is true that misconceptions about atheists are widespread, but avoiding the term does not help the situation.

 

Plus, when I left Christianity, I cast off all labels except "human."

 

Labels describe us; they do not define us. Communication would be impossible without labels; every word is a label for some idea. So long as we agree on what the labels mean, and do not take labels for more than what they are, they are not a problem. If there is a misunderstanding, then clarify.

 

Though I've considered myself an atheist for several years now, I've never cared for the label.  Why would I want to be identified by something that I am not?

 

Because, like it or not, the label exists. I agree wholeheartedly that it should not exist, but it does. And running away from what we are does not look good. Just ask any American liberal about Michael Dukakis.

[RipVanWinkle]

"If your marriage is glued together by false fronts, what do you have anyway? " Deidre32

 

 

 

Telling the "whole truth" is overrated. Sometimes the truth is left better unsaid. The question is what would be the result if the truth on a specific subject is known? Belief in Xtianity does not necessarily diminish a person's character. Xtianity is a blind spot. It can but does not necessarily result in radical behavior. My wife is a very loving, caring person. Who knows but what convincing her of the fallacy of Xtianity may make her less caring or change her character in some other negative way? Why run that risk? We all have our blind spots, without a doubt. bill

[Vigile]

I can't speak for others, but I really don't care what believers think of my atheism.  I don't wear it on my sleeve and apart from this website, I don't bring up the issue unless for some odd reason someone brings it up first.  If they do, and they don't like that I'm an atheist, they can eat shit as far as I'm concerned. 

 

I've never lived anywhere it was an issue though.  Here in Russia, it's clearly not.  But even when I lived in Idaho, people there have a live and let live attitude and I've never seen an atheist get shit for not believing.  Xians might try and convince him/her they are wrong, but they aren't going to bully them.  It's just not the Idaho way as far as my experience there goes.  When I lived in Northern VA/DC, religion was something no one discussed or cared about apart from those in the black community.  But they were much more tolerant than anything I've seen in the examples I've read from our members who live in the south.  I have several black, xian friends in the DC area who know I'm an atheist and they don't care.  I likewise don't care that they are xian.  Personal beliefs aren't what our friendship is built on. 

[DrNo]

It's sad that the term "atheist" has become a label that people assume the worst about. All "atheist" means is that you don't believe in any gods. It doesn't necessarily mean that you have a low opinion of people that do, or that you want to burn their Bibles or sacrifice children to Satan. It is just the lack of belief in any gods. And yet people assume that it means some pretty awful other things too. 

 

Atheism is a word that just says what you're not about, it says nothing about what you are about. Some atheists are humanists, others are nihilists, some are hedonists, and so on. People will continue to assume the worst about the label unless we are willing to own it and correct people's assumptions. Similar to how many people used to automatically think that someone with AIDS must be gay, the public needs to be educated before the label loses all meaning.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

It's sad that the term "atheist" has become a label that people assume the worst about. All "atheist" means is that you don't believe in any gods. It doesn't necessarily mean that you have a low opinion of people that do, or that you want to burn their Bibles or sacrifice children to Satan. It is just the lack of belief in any gods. And yet people assume that it means some pretty awful other things too. 

 

Atheism is a word that just says what you're not about, it says nothing about what you are about. Some atheists are humanists, others are nihilists, some are hedonists, and so on. People will continue to assume the worst about the label unless we are willing to own it and correct people's assumptions. Similar to how many people used to automatically think that someone with AIDS must be gay, the public needs to be educated before the label loses all meaning.

Quoted for truth.

[Leo]

I haven't read all these posts. But it's harder when your kids are little. I could never have taken the steps I have when my daughter was little. Ever. Now as to coming out, I think we can all learn very valuable lessons from the Lesbian and Gay community. I think it's safe to come out to a stranger, in various ways. It is always safest to talk to someone who is not directly involved in your life. Also, you don't want to out yourself to anyone who is likely to out you by accident or on purpose. Atheists are hated, yes. So are witches, as others have pointed out. Not long ago, before the 2012 election, Mormons were pretty despised by most Christians. I realize that for political reasons the greats like John Hagee have embraced Mormons as fellow Christians now, but that was not always true. Even Catholics had to be careful for a lot of this nation's history.

Definitely don't come out to raise awareness. Take it from someone with a disability on this one: 'raise awareness' is largely a myth to make people feel good. I'm not an ambassador to the world to show others that the blind are responsible, capable, taxpaying people who don't leach off society. As an atheist, I'm not an ambassador to the world to show everyone atheists are people too, or to show everyone we can be good. Here's why, again drawing from my own experience as a blind person: People will cling to what they want to believe. So, they see me go down the sidewalk to the store and buy something for my wife, and later on say "That's great you do that. Because I know a guy who knows a guy who knows ten blind people who all they do is sit at home." And then proceed to tell you their myth about these alleged nameless locationless blind people. Ask any minority and they will tell you this. So don't ever come out as an atheist in order to raise awareness. People's desire to believe what they want, and their confirmation biases are just too high a priority for them.

I find it cathartic for me to come out as an atheist when in discussions at a pub or a coffeeshop if the topic turns to beliefs. I do so in a respectful manner, but that is just how I happen to be, beliefs aside. I also live in a pretty tolerant area: Portland Oregon is not Birmingham, Alabama or Jacksonville, Florida.

And you're right: in some parts of the country, you can do a lot of damage, but provided you have the right bumper sticker, you are in the club.

So in summary, only come out to whom you feel comfortable, and assess the risk of your doing so. The first time you come out to someone who opposes you, it will be a test of all the book learning and self-examination you have done. But you have been with your thoughts on this issue and never verbally expressed it all, even if you did so online. It's different in realtime. Not everyone will hit you with apologetics. In my case, I got asked random nonapologetic, "doesn't-god-just-love-everybody" type questions right out of the gate. That was not with a family member and certainly not from an evangelical Christian or orthodox muslim. It's hard, because you are very emotional about it especially right at first. And it's normal to seek validation face to face with people. And you're not going to get it any more than a gay or Lesbian person would get it 30 to 40 years ago.

I think in our lifetimes, we'll see this changing. As soon as it starts showing up on television screens, with atheists being played as decent people, things will slowly change. Even I, who should know better, am constantly having to tell myself I can't change others' perception of where I'm at. I'm not setting myself out ther to oppose theists. But theists won't see it that way, just like someone taking a corporate tax break will still see me as a blind leach off society's benefits package, even though I work for a living. So don't do this to change them. You can't.

So, why do it? Well, it's cathartic in the right environment, even the back and forth question and answer that can happen over coffee or beers . Also, I think it is important to not be found out. Be careful with Facebook, in other words. That goes for any other social networking environment where family and past friends all connect. I'm still just a few months in and am working all of this out myself. And I think the same will apply to Universalists, witches, Wiccans, Asatruars and others. Even liberal Christians! My mother, who spent our upbringing railing against secular humanism, would probably have kittens to find out I had switched over to some kind of liberal Christianity. They frequently talk about the nameless shapeless liberal what they call "feel-good" Christians, who are scarce to be found where I have looked anyway, and so outing oneself there would be just as damaging. Even though now, the evil of being an atheist would be considered worse, that is just because it's the greater wrong. They could appeal to a liberal Christianity they have railed against for at least 40 years, as implausible as that might sound, but that is only a temporary stasis point to return. Think of Sher and her son Chaz. When Chaz was a girl, a Lesbian, Sher had trouble with that. Now that Chaz came out as a transgendered person, her mother went on TV and claimed that she only wishes now that she could return to the Lesbian days.

But if Chaz is smart, he will not be fooled by this: That would only be a temporary stasis point until Sher was comfortable enough again to be uncomfortable with the Lesbian thing. This is typically how that sort of stuff works when talking about minorities. Especially where there is an industrial complex created to oppose them.

My opinion? You can't really afford to stay in, not entirely. You'll be asked why you don't believe the right way about any number of things, when conversations come up. Why are you adopting a liberal view here but not one there, and so on. In other words, people probably already doubt your authenticity as a "true believer", because humans are amazing authenticity detectors. They know the difference between a ready, complicit, engaged response, and one that is given just to get along. They know.

So, to coin yet another euphemism from elsewhere: Safer practices. I'd stay away from people like that as much as you can, until you are ready to come out to them. The True Christians™ know the difference between you referring to good or right, versus Jesus. Also you have to be aware of and avoid Christian™ trigger responses. Be careful of words and phrases like human happiness, human dignity, and so on. These will drive the Matrix into paroxysms. Things like honor and fidelity, you can get away with. Love, only in the right context. So, being in the closet isn't easy either. Fortunately, I had practice with this as a child, being blind, and often punished for the appearance of blindness. it's the same lemming trigger type reactions that we see from the Faithful, and remaining hidden takes a lot of energy and calculated thought.

I don't think it's binary, but it becomes easier once you have some people in your circle that you can come out to. You'll get the questions, I've gotten the questions. But again, deferring to my experience as a blind man, I've been asked how I know when I'm done wiping myself by strangers with no sense of courtesy. So, answer the question if you want, or in its proper context. Someone asking me now if I'm a communist, or if I am only thinking about myself anymore? I don't need to answer those. But my daughter's intelligent questions about marriage, and about the Pledge of Allegiance, led to some real conversation where she got a bit of a history lesson about the 1950s, and a moral philosophy lesson on relationships. So, pick your battles.

But I definitely don't think there's easy answers, nor do I think it's binary. Maybe it's me having a 19-year-old daughter, but I am hugely in favor of people using safer practices, and this is one area for that. The most important one comes right from the Gay and Lesbian community. When you do come out to someone, make it clear that they aren't to out you to other people. Without being dramatic, you can explain how most people are not thrilled to find this out, and some people are downright antagonistic or violent. I had this conversation over private messaging with my cousin and she totally understood.

Anyway, not to overplay my hand here, just my thoughts.