LukeExChristian Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I am swallowing any remnants of pride that christianity divided me from. I broke free from religion 6 months ago. Ever since, i have always felt like the bad guy. I know i shouldn't, but i feel bad when I see all the holes in the theology and teachings and i for wanting to point them out. I don't mean to toot my own horn here but i can DESTROY apologetics. i've spent good time researching it all: i can rip apart the watchmaker analogy, the kalam cosmological argument, and i feel i have mastered explaining the euphythro dilemma to the most fundamentalist brainwashed fundy. I am reading WLC book and i watch debates to counter-argue against the apologist to myself. I also feel bad when i shouldn't, for day dreaming about participating in formal debates against the likes of frank turek or william lane craig. it's something i'd like to do someday and i can't tell anyone. i have had conversations with my family where i bring up arguments. but i stop when they quote the bible. every time i could still refute it easily... but i'm just not ready to attack the actual theology of the bible in front of them yet. I am still filtering out christian ways of thinking. I am awkward. When i was growing up, i was taught to be the "light of this world" and "i am not of this world" so i saw socializing and social skills as useless and time wasting. I had god, afterall. I try to be sociable, but i feel that when i try to be friendly it comes as as forced. (at least that's what i feel) it IS something i am working on. so just trying to hold normal conversations is something on the stove. but talking to girls is another world... i wont get to far into it. because i have posted about it before, and i have gotten plenty of support on the subject (thank all of you). but i still feel guilty for wanting to get out of the house for the purpose of meeting girls. i've become numb to all the guilt trips that christianity has thrown EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE! and i dont know why. getting laid and having sex finally would be awesome! but i can't get past that guilt and i cant figure out why. i feel like some sort of rogue agent. i try to blend in with my brainwashed fundie family but in reality i know the real truth behind it all. it fucking sucks and i am just wanting someone to tell me that i am not the bad guy here and that there's no reason to feel guilt and that it will all be okay. i know it wont necessarily fix anything but i just want someone to pat me on the back for once. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 24, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted July 24, 2014 Pat, pat, pat! You hold a well researched opinion that differs from the majority. How can that be wrong? I'm just a simple guy, and I simply say fuck 'em if they can't handle the fact that not everyone believes as they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I can't pat you on the back literally, so please build this contraption and pretend so 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 *pats Luke on the back* You are not the bad guy here and that there's no reason to feel guilt and that it will all be okay. You are doing superbly. Your counter-apologetics is way better than mine! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted July 25, 2014 Moderator Share Posted July 25, 2014 *pat, pat* You're doing great, Luke. You freed yourself, and you're continue to learn and grow with an open mind. Not everyone knows goodness when they see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeExChristian Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Pat, pat, pat! You hold a well researched opinion that differs from the majority. How can that be wrong? I'm just a simple guy, and I simply say fuck 'em if they can't handle the fact that not everyone believes as they do. i'm much more well researched? i agree. (not to toot my own horn. and i kinda forgot some background here. if it was just some guy i dont know who wants to open his mouth about how i'm stupid and going to hell, i agree, fuck 'em. But this is my family. I still have not moved out to live on my own, and i breaks my heart to see them brainwashed. But it's because this is my dad and my grandmother who i doubt have ever personally known an atheist, is why i feel like the bad guy when i know i'm not. and i know that i'm not the only one that doesn't believe but i rarely find someone else who also doesn't IRL. which only adds to the overwhelmingness of it all. i want to move badly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeExChristian Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 *pats Luke on the back* You are not the bad guy here and that there's no reason to feel guilt and that it will all be okay. You are doing superbly. Your counter-apologetics is way better than mine! thank you. im so glad someone else understands. i'm so tired of feeling alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeExChristian Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 *pat, pat* You're doing great, Luke. You freed yourself, and you're continue to learn and grow with an open mind. Not everyone knows goodness when they see it. and i'm very proud and very glad i freed myself. but it would be so nice if i could get my loved ones to see the goodness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deidre Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 They may come to see it, eventually. I'm happy you are free and sending you pats on the back! Stay true to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Pat on the back to you for seeing thru it. You're not a bad guy, you're a smart guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeExChristian Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 They may come to see it, eventually. I'm happy you are free and sending you pats on the back! Stay true to you. im happy im free too. thank you so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeExChristian Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Pat on the back to you for seeing thru it. You're not a bad guy, you're a smart guy. im going to quote that to myself every time i feel guilt from now on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeExChristian Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 it is scary and depressing when religion is never seen as the problem it is. it devisive and manipulative and it ensures its followers do not see it as such. it takes credit for anything good and blames its followers for its faults. i dont want to let arbitrary religious rules stop me from enjoying life but the guilt of being looked down on by ones i love is frustrating. i know i am not the bad guy and im breaking myself from that mindset, but i still feel like some undercover cop. i cannot figure out any other way to justify going out and having fun other than attacking the religion. i cannot stand religion and i cringe at the news when i hear of conflicts in the middle east driven by religion. and it absolutely infuriating and frustrating that there is no one to talk about this with IRL. i know that i wont be able to chamge any of it for anyone if i off myself... in fact it would end up strengthening the idea that letting go of religion is a bad idea. its something i have thought about. i want to scream it into my parents and grandparents faces that life is so much better without it. or at least have a chance to calmly explain it without also having to explain that theology is pointless when there is no evidence for the god behind all of it... in other words without having to come out of the closet. morals and good choices do not require religion. i have thought about remaining in the closet and just going with the flow. but i cant allow this parasite to continue to be a detriment to society. some weed would be awesome right now... oh wait bible belt state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeExChristian Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 i guess the point im trying to get across is... its frustrating to not be able to talk about it with making the religion look like the answer. or so it seems i cant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted July 25, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted July 25, 2014 so just trying to hold normal conversations is something on the stove. but talking to girls is another world... i wont get to far into it. because i have posted about it before, and i have gotten plenty of support on the subject (thank all of you). but i still feel guilty for wanting to get out of the house for the purpose of meeting girls. i've become numb to all the guilt trips that christianity has thrown EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE! and i dont know why. getting laid and having sex finally would be awesome! but i can't get past that guilt and i cant figure out why. Trust me when I tell you: All the pats on the back in the world will pale in comparison to the "first time". Get out there and "git yerself sum", Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeExChristian Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 so just trying to hold normal conversations is something on the stove. but talking to girls is another world... i wont get to far into it. because i have posted about it before, and i have gotten plenty of support on the subject (thank all of you). but i still feel guilty for wanting to get out of the house for the purpose of meeting girls. i've become numb to all the guilt trips that christianity has thrown EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE! and i dont know why. getting laid and having sex finally would be awesome! but i can't get past that guilt and i cant figure out why. Trust me when I tell you: All the pats on the back in the world will pale in comparison to the "first time". Get out there and "git yerself sum", Luke. best advice i've never had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted July 25, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted July 25, 2014 so just trying to hold normal conversations is something on the stove. but talking to girls is another world... i wont get to far into it. because i have posted about it before, and i have gotten plenty of support on the subject (thank all of you). but i still feel guilty for wanting to get out of the house for the purpose of meeting girls. i've become numb to all the guilt trips that christianity has thrown EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE! and i dont know why. getting laid and having sex finally would be awesome! but i can't get past that guilt and i cant figure out why.Trust me when I tell you: All the pats on the back in the world will pale in comparison to the "first time". Get out there and "git yerself sum", Luke. best advice i've never had Glad I could help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VacuumFlux Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 it is scary and depressing when religion is never seen as the problem it is. it devisive and manipulative and it ensures its followers do not see it as such. it takes credit for anything good and blames its followers for its faults. i dont want to let arbitrary religious rules stop me from enjoying life but the guilt of being looked down on by ones i love is frustrating. i know i am not the bad guy and im breaking myself from that mindset, but i still feel like some undercover cop. i cannot figure out any other way to justify going out and having fun other than attacking the religion. i cannot stand religion and i cringe at the news when i hear of conflicts in the middle east driven by religion. and it absolutely infuriating and frustrating that there is no one to talk about this with IRL. i know that i wont be able to chamge any of it for anyone if i off myself... in fact it would end up strengthening the idea that letting go of religion is a bad idea. its something i have thought about. i want to scream it into my parents and grandparents faces that life is so much better without it. or at least have a chance to calmly explain it without also having to explain that theology is pointless when there is no evidence for the god behind all of it... in other words without having to come out of the closet. morals and good choices do not require religion. i have thought about remaining in the closet and just going with the flow. but i cant allow this parasite to continue to be a detriment to society. Some of that gets easier once you've established a life, or at least a few hobies, of your own, outside the christian bubble. Even if you're still having to fight with yourself over the conflict of wanting to see your loved ones happy vs wanting your loved ones to acknowledge reality. The best thing I've found is to have other things in my life, good things, secular things, that have nothing to do with my family or morality or religion. Art, music, sports, theater, community service, whatever works for you. And then pour your energy into living the life you have, as yourself, and do your best to accept that you can't change other people if they don't want to change. You haven't done anything wrong. It's the people in your life who won't accept you as you are who are in the wrong. You may never be able to have a completely open, loving, and safe relationship with them, but there are other people in the world that you can have that with. Find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Pat on the back to you for seeing thru it. You're not a bad guy, you're a smart guy. Orbit, may I use this line in my signature? + Human Sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeExChristian Posted July 26, 2014 Author Share Posted July 26, 2014 it is scary and depressing when religion is never seen as the problem it is. it devisive and manipulative and it ensures its followers do not see it as such. it takes credit for anything good and blames its followers for its faults. i dont want to let arbitrary religious rules stop me from enjoying life but the guilt of being looked down on by ones i love is frustrating. i know i am not the bad guy and im breaking myself from that mindset, but i still feel like some undercover cop. i cannot figure out any other way to justify going out and having fun other than attacking the religion. i cannot stand religion and i cringe at the news when i hear of conflicts in the middle east driven by religion. and it absolutely infuriating and frustrating that there is no one to talk about this with IRL. i know that i wont be able to chamge any of it for anyone if i off myself... in fact it would end up strengthening the idea that letting go of religion is a bad idea. its something i have thought about. i want to scream it into my parents and grandparents faces that life is so much better without it. or at least have a chance to calmly explain it without also having to explain that theology is pointless when there is no evidence for the god behind all of it... in other words without having to come out of the closet. morals and good choices do not require religion. i have thought about remaining in the closet and just going with the flow. but i cant allow this parasite to continue to be a detriment to society. Some of that gets easier once you've established a life, or at least a few hobies, of your own, outside the christian bubble. Even if you're still having to fight with yourself over the conflict of wanting to see your loved ones happy vs wanting your loved ones to acknowledge reality. The best thing I've found is to have other things in my life, good things, secular things, that have nothing to do with my family or morality or religion. Art, music, sports, theater, community service, whatever works for you. And then pour your energy into living the life you have, as yourself, and do your best to accept that you can't change other people if they don't want to change. You haven't done anything wrong. It's the people in your life who won't accept you as you are who are in the wrong. You may never be able to have a completely open, loving, and safe relationship with them, but there are other people in the world that you can have that with. Find them. very sound advice. thank you, i'll get out more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Sorry, but you sound overconfident to me. Refuting an argument from the 12th century is not an intellectual achievement at all. You've seen through William Lane Craig's facade, and that's a good first step in applying critical thinking skills. But William Lane Craig wouldn't even have a job but for the fact that Christians need somebody who sounds intellectual make pseudo-intellectual arguments to make them feel like their religion actually has substance. As Socrates observed, true knowledge begins with humility and realizing how much you don't know and may never know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeExChristian Posted July 26, 2014 Author Share Posted July 26, 2014 Sorry, but you sound overconfident to me. Refuting an argument from the 12th century is not an intellectual achievement at all. You've seen through William Lane Craig's facade, and that's a good first step in applying critical thinking skills. But William Lane Craig wouldn't even have a job but for the fact that Christians need somebody who sounds intellectual make pseudo-intellectual arguments to make them feel like their religion actually has substance. As Socrates observed, true knowledge begins with humility and realizing how much you don't know and may never know. i do realize i may have given that impression, i do agree that intelligence is realizing how you don't know. i do realize WLC is not a good basis to ise for all counter arguments (well not all of them). if you think i AM a but too high strung, thanks for pointing it out i try to not do that. but i tried to point out i realized i was "tooting ny own horn" i have yet to hear a reasonable excuse as to why i shouldnt doubt from my family. but i am no expert. though am a but proud of all the research i've done though, whether rightly so or not i'll leave for debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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