I Think I'm Going Mad

[moanareina]

It might be that those who weren't writing books about themselves tried to get attention and possibly fame and money through other sources. John Todd did get cash to set up a "rehabilitation center for ex-witches" so I guess there are some motives after all for these kinds of things. Mike Warnke decidedly got a lot of money and publicity out of his hoax.

 

Zuker12

 

What I have learnt from my job, I do airport security and there are about 1000 employees and you never know with whom you are working the next day...so as you can imagine it is the perfect breeding place for rumors and conspiracies...is that people love to tell stories. There are people who only tell stories they have experienced. But there are those very interesting people who ALWAYS have a fun story, one that you are eager to hear...and only after a while when you meet those other people they mention in their stories you start to realize that they are just making stuff up. For the sole purpose of telling a story. To make time pass...and closing time arrive. And there are more of those people then you think. Coming from a background of trying not to sin which includes not to lie and make things up this is quite weird to see. Especially if you had been sincere with it and assumed everyone else was so too. And I guess you are because it takes a whole amount of honesty and sincere effort to find your way out of religion. But yes. People lie and tell you all kinds of stories and testimonies just for the fun of it. To everyone who is willing to listen.

 

Maybe you should rather start reading psychology books instead of conspiracies. How the human psyche works and how it can deceive itself and therefore others. I have read an interesting book called Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me) http://www.amazon.com/Mistakes-Were-Made-But-Not/dp/0156033909 and it mainly describes how we deceive ourselves into justifying hurtful behavior and foolish believes etc.

 

And as FreeThinkerNZ suggests, maybe it is time to talk to a professional?

[zuker12]

I can certainly see now why'd people pull off hoaxes. And sometimes, a lie told often enough just grows in size until it's indistinguishable from reality. I realize satanic crime exists but probably not in the amounts purported by evangelists. Though it'd be eerily funny if there was a real bogeyman, an enemy of humanity to rail at... Spiritual warfare sounds cool as a term

 

Also I currently have professional help (well actually this is my 5th year with professional help.) it just seems I'm going through a horrible phase right now. Partially because my OCD has accelerated, partially because I've become numb, somewhat depressed and incapable of focusing, which is seemingly going on constantly. I think my knowledge addiction is just feeding the system, so to speak.

 

I do know that my view of God, should I choose to go back, would be that he is a very harsh master. I understand it in a very fundie way and thus I'd prolly stop taking medicines and started praying instead because I view God as wanting total submission. However, I realize this would PROBABLY degrade me even faster, knowing what I went through as a christian. I still can't justify God or his actions or commandments. It's kinda sick.

[moanareina]

Have you talked to your therapist about those things?

 

And to me the God you portray sounds more like a portrait of how satan would be if he was God...if they existed. To believe in an evil entity is kinda cheap I would say because it puts responsibility off to an uncontrollable force. And while there are many events we cannot personally control there is enough small things in everyones life that one can control. To have a believe system where there is a good and an evil force makes us blind to the things we can influence...that's why I would deny it if I where you because you make yourself a victim that way when in fact you are not. You decide though.

 

Your version of God and how you want this to be sounds quite masochistic to me. Why would you want a God like this? Do you think you are not worthy to be treated with respect and love? Maybe on a more unconscious level?

I always had some masochistic tendency and when I imagined to be tight up and treated badly or when I saw pictures of people being beaten and tight up etc. and even the scene of the crucifixion gave me a kick. And I felt guilty and bad about it. But it gave me a kick...and at the same time made me feel inferior. So I stopped doing those things obsessively. Once in a while there are pictures or situations that evoke that feeling and I just recently started to understand the underlying psychology of it and it gives me something to work with.

I think maybe for you it would be good if instead of feeding your hunger for knowledge with conspiracy you start reading about psychology. Really. Because if you start to understand yourself more, it also gives you more patience with yourself and maybe some tools to work with. Fill your mind with something of substance instead of junk. Add some valuable knowledge instead of dumbing your brain down by conspiracy and religion.

 

If you think you would go fundie if you return to faith with the God as this harsh taskmaster...PLEASE do not even consider that option! There are enough psychopathic fundies on this planet who do more harm than good.

[zuker12]

God's a sadist, isn't he? Ordering stonings, killings, rape, and an eternal hell for the unbelievers. Can you not see that? After setting up this system where I really did not ever want to be. After creating Satan knowing he would rebel. After creating me with the feelings that I have. Supposedly he also predetermines the ways his followers go. The only way I can view God is from an utter fundamentalist pov. He is conditional love and judgement and a man of war. I don't agree with almost anything in his religion. In a way, I am forced to go there, in my view, if I want to be saved. That is something I have to decide in the coming months. I view god as inherently dystheistic, with the occasional good character trait in him. That is why I initially rejected and forgot about him.

 

I am probably delusional, but sometimes I think god gave me this OCD just to break me down and make me believe again. Which I for the moment do (not without reservations though). I have to decide whether I want to conform to this heavenly tyrant or not.

[moanareina]

 

 I have to decide whether I want to conform to this heavenly tyrant or not.

 

No you don't. You have to decide weather you want to believe in BS that is making your mind crazy and robbing your sanity or if you want to leave it all behind.

[zuker12]

http://www.witchvox.com/_x.html?c=whs

 

Look, here's 182 articles on modern day witch hunts and satanic crime, from a skeptical perspective (a pagan police officer writes these.)

 

The thing I find odd about the whole Satanic conspiracy thing is that there are seemingly a lot of people testifying to having been some sort of sinister satanists. Is it possible that there is really a deluded portion of the population who worship Satan and commit all kinds of crimes? Is this just a lie that grew out of hand? Does this mean there is a god if there is a Satan?

 

Of course, I know, there are frauds, and inexplicable claims. Then there are the supposedly thousands of ritual murders, but no one ever got convicted for these, and no bodies have ever been found. And I can't believe the police is so invaded by satanists that ritual crimes are ritually unsolved. They spent millions on searching for bodies and evidence of ritual crimes - in 4 or 5 countries. Nothing was found.

 

I just can't figure a motivation for this. Is this a pious fraud, that is perpetuated by mass hysteria? Selfish men with partially good intentions and partially a money-making out-of-fear scheme? Haven't christians lied and made dozens of forgeries before? Can MASSES OF PEOPLE really be so dishonest when propagating their religion?

[directionless]

http://www.witchvox.com/_x.html?c=whs

 

Look, here's 182 articles on modern day witch hunts and satanic crime, from a skeptical perspective (a pagan police officer writes these.)

 

The thing I find odd about the whole Satanic conspiracy thing is that there are seemingly a lot of people testifying to having been some sort of sinister satanists. Is it possible that there is really a deluded portion of the population who worship Satan and commit all kinds of crimes? Is this just a lie that grew out of hand? Does this mean there is a god if there is a Satan?

 

Of course, I know, there are frauds, and inexplicable claims. Then there are the supposedly thousands of ritual murders, but no one ever got convicted for these, and no bodies have ever been found. And I can't believe the police is so invaded by satanists that ritual crimes are ritually unsolved. They spent millions on searching for bodies and evidence of ritual crimes - in 4 or 5 countries. Nothing was found.

 

I just can't figure a motivation for this. Is this a pious fraud, that is perpetuated by mass hysteria? Selfish men with partially good intentions and partially a money-making out-of-fear scheme? Haven't christians lied and made dozens of forgeries before? Can MASSES OF PEOPLE really be so dishonest when propagating their religion?

When I read about a UFO incident that seems to be strong evidence, I usually try to google and read about that incident in multiple sources - especially skeptical sources. Even the best UFO authors seem to get the facts wrong sometimes. So why not choose a couple of strong cases for satanist conspiracies and google for skeptical sources? It often works for me.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Also I currently have professional help (well actually this is my 5th year with professional help.) it just seems I'm going through a horrible phase right now. Partially because my OCD has accelerated, partially because I've become numb, somewhat depressed and incapable of focusing, which is seemingly going on constantly. I think my knowledge addiction is just feeding the system, so to speak.

 

 

Have you told your doctor about the acceleration of your OCD and your symptoms of depression?  They might be able to review your medication to see if it's the optimal type and dosage for your current needs.  Is your doctor competent?  If you suspect they might not be, please get a second opinion.  Medical treatment is only as effective as the doctor's competence and the accuracy and timeliness of what you tell them.  OCD and depression are treatable with medication, which when optimised enables you to get the most from therapy.

[zuker12]

There really is no evidence for a generational satanist conspiracy. Many alleged cases, ultimately, no bodies, no evidence, and only a small amount of convictions that aren't really even what is described in what was supposed to be thousands of cases. The evangelists that rail against occultism get their facts and details wrong, which can be read about on that Witchvox Witch Hunts site. They also make claims about things that never exist (such as upper echelons in Wicca that are supposedly satanic, but this is nowhere to be found in Wiccan handbooks or manuals)

 

I don't think I can trust such flimsy evidence, when evidence rails against christianity and judaism, which would be the basis for this whole mess, supposedly. There is also the possibility that satanic secret cults exist because people are prone to be deluded. IT would still not be proof for God. In the mind of the conspiracy theorist, lack of evidence is more evidence and proof for the existence of satanic organizations.

 

I also question why would Satan ever do such a thing, if all he wants is to lure souls away from Christ. He does that already more effectively in the way of neopaganism and new age religions, atheism, magick and such things. That moral panic only serves to scare people for Christ.

 

FreeThinkerNZ, I currently have medication for OCD, but it might not be the correct dosage or it might not be the correct type. Months ago when I first had it it helped. RIght now, I'm not so sure. I really don't know what direction I should go to with my medication.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

 

 

FreeThinkerNZ, I currently have medication for OCD, but it might not be the correct dosage or it might not be the correct type. Months ago when I first had it it helped. RIght now, I'm not so sure. I really don't know what direction I should go to with my medication.

 

How often do you see the doctor about it?  It might be a good idea to see them monthly until things are stable, then drop down to 3 monthly.  Tell them the meds helped at the start.  I'm sure they can help if you talk to them.

[Margee]

Zuker,I sympathize with what you are going through. I went through it myself after deconverting. The conclusions I have come to is that even if the  whole world is a conspiracy, what are we going to do about it? Do everything in your power to keep your own 'world' safe and loving. Stay away from the news. Don't read the conspiracies anymore. Try to enjoy all the nice things about the world. I had to stop searching. It made me crazy. There is nothing I can do even if it were all true. Today, I choose to invite friends over and enjoy the sunny day. I hope you take a nice walk in nature today. Nature can be very calming when distressed.

 

If there was a true Jesus, he would get off his sorry ass and come back right now to set up his 'new kingdom'. He's an asshole for sitting  back and watching the world be destroyed by the humans he created.

 

I give you a big hug today.

[zuker12]

Your statements ring true. It's a bit hard with OCD but I should stop reading. I won't find a determinate truth, it seems. There's just too much trust to give to people who are potentially misled, misleading (for a "greater" cause) and who previously caused me to go through insane guilt trips, depression and hatred of this world and everything godly. Without evidence, stories are just stories. There's probably a blood libel going on against witches, the kind used against christians back in the day.

 

And even if good evidence came up, well, I still could not justify the atrocities, purism, hell and such that god has in mind for his "children".

[zuker12]

After reading up more, I don't believe massive satanic cults exist. I will grant that singular lodges where people actually do criminal stuff may exist, but there is no evidence for massive satanic organizations, killing people all over the world and plotting a world takeover. If a takeover comes it will come but it will be some sort of natural evolution where we probably won't end up killing christians in the name of Satan.

 

The hoaxes line up perfectly with how I think of all this SRA crap. Most of them are hoaxes. There are probably a few genuine testimonials but these cults are something totally different from real wiccan or witchcraft practices. I think it might have been a campaign to slander, a blood libel if you will, all other religious activity, which was used to create controversy, fear, converts and money into various organizations and churches. Of course it backfired, since the evangelists lost some of their reputability after no evidence or anything turned up.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

It's hard seeing what's real and what is not.

Zuker, it has been demonstrated that children who are indoctrinated have difficulty separating fact from fiction (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/07/18/new-study-shows-that-children-exposed-to-religion-have-a-hard-time-distinguishing-fact-from-fiction/).

 

In my experience, new deconverts experience the same difficulty.  Usually it will pass as the deconvert gains a clearer perception of life. 

[VacuumFlux]

Here's a (rather cynical) thought on why the satanic ritual stories are so popular. If they're that popular, why wouldn't a huckster take advantage of an audience eager to hear ridiculous stories (and donate a little money to support to the cause)?

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2014/04/27/we-need-the-woods-to-be-full-of-imaginary-monsters/

 

 

 

Christians want and need to believe that there are monsters in the woods....

 

Evangelicals aren’t afraid of the killers in the woods, they’re thrilled by them. These monsters are, above all else, exciting. That excitement makes evangelicals feel awake and alive.

 

And, of course, it makes them feel righteous. What greater confirmation of white evangelical righteousness and rightness could there be? Are evangelicals out there in the woods slaughtering children for Satan? No, no they clearly are not....

 

This scheme works because the monsters aren’t real. That’s what allows us to have our self-righteous cake and eat it too. That’s what allows us to imagine ourselves and position ourselves as exclusively in the right and superior to our depraved culture while  simultaneously not having to actually do anything different except occasionally vote or yell or affirm a firm “stance.”

[zuker12]

I can lay my conspiracy fears to rest. I found no evidence, only absurd claims and inconsistensies with the theories and supposed testimonies people were giving out. I believe they had real motivations for their actions - John Todd for example was suffering from "pseudologia phantastica", unable to tell reality from fiction. When he went around giving his Illuminati testimonial, they found a lot of inconsistencies with his testimony. He was never an influential person, and one would think a leader in the Illuminati was some rich dude like Rockefeller, not a nobody like John Todd. He was a drug abuser and sexual addict, and he went back and forth from witchcraft to christianity, saying things that were always in favour of his current position. Particularly damning is that when he went around christian circles he said that "the christians have more power than any of the witches around them" but then he subsequently went back to witchcraft and said things like "witchcraft is more powerful than christianity because it is so ancient". Why do that if he supposedly knew how everything was going to be? His tall tales don't check up and of course you can't check out his fantastical claims that he was a "Druid High Priest" in Illuminati leading an organization of thousands of witches sending cheques back and forth. He claims the army destroyed his military records, but they are still there and he never went to Vietnam, never killed an officer and it is in his military records that he was disbanded because he had extreme difficulty telling reality from fantasy.

 

It might all be a Illuminati ploy, but for something so weak I'm not going back to the toxicity that christianity inflicted upon me.

 

As of now, I'm undecided. I'm happy with that position. I'll gladly talk when someone brings me historical evidence for christianity. Maybe if I witness an actual miracle or something. I'm actually open to the possibility of being a Christian despite all the things it inflicted upon me, but I need to see evidence and a rhyme and reason to it.

 

Of course, what I think about now is I have to set my life priorities straight. What I want from my life, why and how. I still cling to believing in spirits and gods. I just don't know which god is right (if there is a god). I was dabbling in satanic philosophies, but I think those are not what I'll follow. They are an interesting read, though.

[Margee]

 BUt something has to give in in this insane shit world.

 It's not going to happen sweetie. I went through the exact same thing you have investigated and I got so angry at life that I couldn't hardly breathe. This world is run by humans who are still evolving. Not good!!  It's very important for us to get to 'acceptance' with the world. Oh yes, there will be those who will fight for 'rights' and eventually win. Thank gawd for those people. Most of them lose their lives in battling the wrongs in the world.

 

It's so important to stay in your own little world and make it as nice as you can for all those in your community. Stay away from the news. Stop investigating the conspiracies. I had to do all of this before I totally almost lost my mind and serenity. As florduh used to say to me, ''go for a nice walk today and enjoy the sunshine''. These are the things I am working to get back. The old days when I once truly loved living.

 

Big hug for you today.

[jdog]

Hi Zuker, It's not often i post but i read people's stories and my heart breaks for some people struggling with things. This stuff can certain screw up the mind and cause utter confusion.

 

I think it's best to take a step back. And not immerse yourself so much into it. It surely can make one crazy.

I am with Margee and the Florduh quote.

Get outside and commune with nature.

Stop and smell the roses so to speak. Simplify life a little more. Play more.

I know with OCD you can exchange one obsession with another. Maybe get hooked on another hobby. Something less confusing and harmful. Something creative like art or music.

I hope you find a way to have some peace.

Good luck.

[zuker12]

The OCD has eased up luckily. It came with this realization: that in the end, I have to take their (conspiracy testimonials) claims on faith anyway, even without looking at all the inherent contradictions, misrepresentations, factual errors and information that should have been but was not divulged. I have no way of knowing what actually happened in John Todd's life before he was 19. He wasn't old enough to be in the navy then I presume, but for all I know he could have actually been a teenage Druid king residing over a large dominion. He didn't provide any reasonable evidence, names, places, anything, to corroborate his insane story. I rule that I have to take it in faith instead of based on evidence. As so happens with the Bible.

 

I don't think it's even profitable to discuss these conspiracies, whether they are brainwashing you with demonic music: it doesn't take a wise man or an insider to see that rock music contains sinful themes for example. Everyone who is atleast somewhat critical know what secularization brings to the world. It automatically steps on christian values. Those values that were probably held in heart time ago. It would not even surprise me that higher ups are using magick to further their goals; leaders are not immune to being spiritual or irrational. Even then I'd say not all of them do it and it's a sham to suggest otherwise. I've never heard of anyone committing suicide solely because they listen to rock music. There are millions upon millions of people who listen to rock music. Without evidence, I simply don't accept the claim that rock music causes demonic possession, drug abuse and suicide. All those things come from the culture, part of which is of course rock music.

 

I don't need these conspiracy theories. Sure, they are interesting, but let's face it, if this is god's chosen way to communicate in the 21st century... then I'd vote he is inept at his job or is deliberately spreading his word through these fancy tales which definitely don't sink in with the skeptics. They don't really give me anything to base decisions on except nightmares. Even if I went back to being a christian, I would still hold these conspiracy theories as false; you DON'T need conspiracy theories to realize that in christian theology this is a sinful world.