Roz Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 1. Trusting the 11th century copy of Tacitus found in a christian monestary to prove that he was indeed talking about jesus, and that old testament prophecies prove that he is god? That's a pretty thin stretch. Please read or watch Bart Erhman, and look up Apollonius of Tyana. 2. You clearly have not read the entire bible if you believe that is biblical morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 What do you make of the law? Do you think Jesus really had to die because his daddy made a bunch of stupid rules that the Israelites couldn't follow? And why is the morality portrayed in the bible so much less acceptable than the morality of today? My understanding of the law is that Jesus fulfilled the law and as a result he gave us a new set of rules. I guess bible morality is less acceptable today because not many people take it seriously. Jesus supposedly died so that we could be free from sin. But there is no power in that for christians. It doesn't stop them from sinning or allow them to feel forgiven and at peace. Maybe the odd one, but most of them are living in fear that they are not measuring up. That goes back to what I was saying. The bible says it's possible to have peace by having some undefined number of good works, but since it never defines the number of good works required to have peace you can never be 100% sure that you have peace or that you're measuring up. I guess fear of hell motivates people to do good works and the more good works they do the closer they get to obtaining peace. So it's like for every good work you do you get 1% closer to getting peace, but you never reach the full 100% because the bible never defines the minimum amount of works needed to have 100% certainty of peace. The bible both says and does not say that you can have peace by an undefined number of good works. It's one of the worst contradictions found in the bible. It should just say either way, but instead it doesn't. I would NEVER worship a deity who used the fear of eternal burning as a motivator. That deity would have to completely remove my ability to choose my behaviour and turn me into an automaton for me to worship it. Fuck your evil dictator!!! He's imaginary. I'm real, so he can fake kiss my big ass every day of the week! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I'm going to wait and see if this christian's apologetics mesh with our other christians' ideas. If they don't match up, maybe some of them are somehow following 'false teachings.' "I guess fear of hell motivates people to do good works and the more good works they do the closer they get to obtaining peace." ^pretty sure that goes against mainstream christian teaching right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 You know there's a special level of hell for false teachers and their followers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusef Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 1. Trusting the 11th century copy of Tacitus found in a christian monestary to prove that he was indeed talking about jesus, and that old testament prophecies prove that he is god? That's a pretty thin stretch. Please read or watch Bart Erhman, and look up Apollonius of Tyana. 2. You clearly have not read the entire bible if you believe that is biblical morality. ok, so what's biblical morality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Read Lev. 25 in its entirety, and remember the verse where jesus said he and his dad are one. And I have to add in what X said. Burning people in eternal torment is also part of biblical morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusef Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I would NEVER worship a deity who used the fear of eternal burning as a motivator. That deity would have to completely remove my ability to choose my behaviour and turn me into an automaton for me to worship it. Terrorizing people does work though. Just look at Catholics with their Mass, indulgences, etc. It's basically all just one big hell avoidance plan with a hope of eternal life. (Philippians 2:12, Titus 1:2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 It's refreshing to see a christian own up to the terrorism that eternal hell creates for people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusef Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 It's refreshing to see a christian own up to the terrorism that eternal hell creates for people. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men... - 2 Corinthians 5:11 I kinda have to... since it's biblical. Man is salvation a hard sell or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Have you read all of Lev. 25 yet? That's also biblical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 I would NEVER worship a deity who used the fear of eternal burning as a motivator. That deity would have to completely remove my ability to choose my behaviour and turn me into an automaton for me to worship it. Terrorizing people does work though. Just look at Catholics with their Mass, indulgences, etc. It's basically all just one big hell avoidance plan with a hope of eternal life. (Philippians 2:12, Titus 1:2) So you are ok with your god terrorizing people in an effort to save them - from the terror he created for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusef Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I would NEVER worship a deity who used the fear of eternal burning as a motivator. That deity would have to completely remove my ability to choose my behaviour and turn me into an automaton for me to worship it. Terrorizing people does work though. Just look at Catholics with their Mass, indulgences, etc. It's basically all just one big hell avoidance plan with a hope of eternal life. (Philippians 2:12, Titus 1:2) So you are ok with your god terrorizing people in an effort to save them - from the terror he created for them? if you knew people were going to burn forever you might wanna say something too to save them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I would NEVER worship a deity who used the fear of eternal burning as a motivator. That deity would have to completely remove my ability to choose my behaviour and turn me into an automaton for me to worship it. Terrorizing people does work though. Just look at Catholics with their Mass, indulgences, etc. It's basically all just one big hell avoidance plan with a hope of eternal life. (Philippians 2:12, Titus 1:2) So you are ok with your god terrorizing people in an effort to save them - from the terror he created for them? if you knew people were going to burn forever you might wanna say something too to save them. You just completely dodged X's question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 if you knew people were going to burn forever you might wanna say something too to save them. ...Yusef But if I made the fire that I was going to burn them in and I knew that they were going to burn, I would have a greater culpability than would just a bystander. I would be guilty of burning people,... duh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I would NEVER worship a deity who used the fear of eternal burning as a motivator. That deity would have to completely remove my ability to choose my behaviour and turn me into an automaton for me to worship it. Terrorizing people does work though. Just look at Catholics with their Mass, indulgences, etc. It's basically all just one big hell avoidance plan with a hope of eternal life. (Philippians 2:12, Titus 1:2) So you are ok with your god terrorizing people in an effort to save them - from the terror he created for them? if you knew people were going to burn forever you might wanna say something too to save them. But God is the one who created hell, original sin, and he sends people to hell---but you think God feels bad about burning people? Read Genesis--he made people flawed and them blamed them for it. Then burns them for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusef Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 if you knew people were going to burn forever you might wanna say something too to save them. ...Yusef But if I made the fire that I was going to burn them in and I knew that they were going to burn, I would have a greater culpability than would just a bystander. I would be guilty of burning people,... duh! I don't like the idea of burning forever and I wish it was different. But God's the creator so he makes the rules, and the master is always right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 if you knew people were going to burn forever you might wanna say something too to save them. ...Yusef But if I made the fire that I was going to burn them in and I knew that they were going to burn, I would have a greater culpability than would just a bystander. I would be guilty of burning people,... duh! I don't like the idea of burning forever and I wish it was different. But God's the creator so he makes the rules, and the master is always right At this point, it's kinder to imagine you're just trolling us instead of being absolutely serious about what you just said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Well Yusuf, we don't believe in God, so he's not the master--he does not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 if you knew people were going to burn forever you might wanna say something too to save them. ...Yusef But if I made the fire that I was going to burn them in and I knew that they were going to burn, I would have a greater culpability than would just a bystander. I would be guilty of burning people,... duh! I don't like the idea of burning forever and I wish it was different. But God's the creator so he makes the rules, and the master is always right Why would people need a master? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 if you knew people were going to burn forever you might wanna say something too to save them. ...Yusef But if I made the fire that I was going to burn them in and I knew that they were going to burn, I would have a greater culpability than would just a bystander. I would be guilty of burning people,... duh! I don't like the idea of burning forever and I wish it was different. But God's the creator so he makes the rules, and the master is always right So basically you are a slave! Even if the whole scenario were true, atleast I am free at this moment which is more than you will ever be, and for that I bet you envy me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusef Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 So basically you are a slave! Even if the whole scenario were true, atleast I am free at this moment which is more than you will ever be, and for that I bet you envy me. Yeah that's right. I guess biblically I'm a slave to Jesus and you're a slave to sin. And I definitely prefer a system that gives hope as opposed to a system that doesn't so no I don't envy you. But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. - Romans 6:17-18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 Except that SIN is imaginary, and you've been duped into submitting your one life for the hope of another one, AFTER YOU DIE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 I get to live free for a while atleast! Being a slave to sin is just christianese for doing what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I get to live free for a while atleast! Being a slave to sin is just christianese for doing what you want. Do you notice it's the xians and not the 'sinners' who are obsessed with guilt over personal pleasure -- i.e., other people's personal pleasure. What's that about? IMO it's about controlling other people, usually men controlling women. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted July 30, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted July 30, 2014 I don't like the idea of burning forever and I wish it was different. But God's the creator so he makes the rules, and the master is always right I don't like the idea of burning Jews and I wish it was different. But Hitler's the Fuhrer so he makes the rules, and the master is always right. Sieg Heil! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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