Roz Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 So basically you are a slave! Even if the whole scenario were true, atleast I am free at this moment which is more than you will ever be, and for that I bet you envy me. Yeah that's right. I guess biblically I'm a slave to Jesus and you're a slave to sin. And I definitely prefer a system that gives hope as opposed to a system that doesn't so no I don't envy you. But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. - Romans 6:17-18 I gave you the exact biblical reference of your god, jesus/allah/yeshitwa/yaweh, instituting a system of slavery for his israelite people whereby they can enslave foreigners for life. What part of your god's biblical morality should modern society embrace, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 So basically you are a slave! Even if the whole scenario were true, atleast I am free at this moment which is more than you will ever be, and for that I bet you envy me. Yeah that's right. I guess biblically I'm a slave to Jesus and you're a slave to sin. And I definitely prefer a system that gives hope as opposed to a system that doesn't so no I don't envy you. But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. - Romans 6:17-18 Hope? Are you kidding me? How can you trust an omniscient, omnipotent dictator that allowed you to be born with a programming to break his arbitrary rules, blamed you for breaking them, and is going to burn you in a fire if you do not repent of the things you did because of your programming? What makes you so sure that he isn't just going to send everyone to Hell for giggles, while deceiving believers into thinking they'll get to spend all of eternity in his magical kingdom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 So basically you are a slave! Even if the whole scenario were true, atleast I am free at this moment which is more than you will ever be, and for that I bet you envy me. Yeah that's right. I guess biblically I'm a slave to Jesus and you're a slave to sin. And I definitely prefer a system that gives hope as opposed to a system that doesn't so no I don't envy you. But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. - Romans 6:17-18 You claim that you are not a slave to sin, but you will sin everyday until the day you die. If Christ has set you free from sin, then that means you willfully choose to sin everyday. Hebrews 10:26 says "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left," then you are not saved as you claim, because the sacrifice that was made for you no longer applies. Its a vicious cycle that never ends. The truth is that Christ's supposed sacrifice really just made it so that you can sin for the rest of your life and not be punished at the end of your life. Its a get out of jail free card. You are never freed from sin. You still sin. This freedom from being a slave to sin doesn't even make sense. Even Paul, in Romans 7, says that he still does things that he doesn't want to do. That is still slavery. That is still having no control. So, this whole biblical premise that Christians are freed slaves from sin doesn't hold any water. Its a utopian idea at best. Christianity makes sins out of things that are normal, and naturally occurring biological systems. Sexuality, Mental illnesses, Physical maladies, death are all made out to be affiliated with sin, but the strange thing is, animals experience all the same things. Are they sinning too? Who is man to think that their importance is such that his own thoughts and actions are what determines the fate of the known world. How arrogant is man to attribute the normal biological processes we know to be influenced by two people who lived a long time ago. Its stupid. We are born, we live, we die. No sin needed. The world exists today as it would if a god did not exist. Because he does not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusef Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 how do you know im not a slave to righteousness? How many sins do I have to stop before I can officially become a slave to righteousness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 how do you know im not a slave to righteousness? How many sins do I have to stop before I can officially become a slave to righteousness? Because righteousness isn't something that's forced on you. You choose to be righteous. But then your righteousness isn't worth anything according to the Bible. So I would argue you can't be a slave to something that has no value. So you can't be a slave to righteousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yusef, did you read Lev. 25 and all of its biblical morals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusef Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yusef, did you read Lev. 25 and all of its biblical morals? yeah I did but I can't find anything that directly says owning another person through slavery is a sin in the bible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 That's because owning people ISN'T a sin in the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yusef, did you read Lev. 25 and all of its biblical morals? yeah I did but I can't find anything that says owning another person through slavery is a sin in the bible Sin is not what you posited. You specifically said: "I guess bible morality is less acceptable today because not many people take it seriously." And I asked you the question: do you truly know biblical morality? Do you understand that owning another human being for life is not acceptable in modern society? Now read Num. 31 and 1 Sam. 15. All the verses in the chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusef Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Hope? Are you kidding me? How can you trust an omniscient, omnipotent dictator that allowed you to be born with a programming to break his arbitrary rules, blamed you for breaking them, and is going to burn you in a fire if you do not repent of the things you did because of your programming? What makes you so sure that he isn't just going to send everyone to Hell for giggles, while deceiving believers into thinking they'll get to spend all of eternity in his magical kingdom? it's hope because the bible does say it's possible to make it into heaven, but it is possible that God is deceiving me so that I'll go to hell. That's why it's a hope of eternal life, because I'm not 100% sure I'll make it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusef Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 That's because owning people ISN'T a sin in the bible. but the bible does say to obey the government and since the government is against slavery then I guess it would be a sin to own people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Poor brainwashed puppy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 That's because owning people ISN'T a sin in the bible. but the bible does say to obey the government and since the government is against slavery then I guess it would be a sin to own people You do realise, don't you, that the government wasnt always against slavery? Do you believe that the bible is as true today as it was when it was written? Do you believe the bible is the inspired word of god? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusef Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 That's because owning people ISN'T a sin in the bible. but the bible does say to obey the government and since the government is against slavery then I guess it would be a sin to own people You do realise, don't you, that the government wasnt always against slavery? Do you believe that the bible is as true today as it was when it was written? Do you believe the bible is the inspired word of god? yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 That's because owning people ISN'T a sin in the bible. but the bible does say to obey the government and since the government is against slavery then I guess it would be a sin to own people You do realise, don't you, that the government wasnt always against slavery? Do you believe that the bible is as true today as it was when it was written? Do you believe the bible is the inspired word of god? yes Then your post is not logically consistent. The bible condones slavery. Regardless of what any government says at one time or another. Therefore the bible's morality is immoral. How can the bible be relied upon as a source of morality? You are more moral than your bible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries256 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 This article is just disgusting. From my observation it's xtians who lack a conscience, and brains. I too wonder how in the hell GLBT people can be xtians. Why would you want to be apart of a cult that would murder you if they could, that thinks you're a lesser being because of who you are, how you are born. I just don't get it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 How is punishing yourself for thought crimes a good way to live? How does doing this result in psychological peace? Well the bible says you can have peace if you focus on non-sinful things and not sinful things. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. - Romans 8:6 But what is the minimum amount of non-sinful things needed to focus on before you can get this peace? If I have a lustful thought can I not have this peace? What if I forget to follow the speed limit or put on my seat belt? Does that disqualify me from getting the peace? Do I have to focus on a large amount of non-sinful things to get the peace or a small amount of non-sinful things to get the peace? Most people would probably say a large amount of non-sinful things. Okay, so how much is a large amount of non-sinful things? Most people would probably say, "Well we don't know because the bible doesn't really tell us but it's definitely more than a small amount of non-sinful things." I am so glad that there is no such thing as sin. Now that is very good news. There is no sin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 I would NEVER worship a deity who used the fear of eternal burning as a motivator. That deity would have to completely remove my ability to choose my behaviour and turn me into an automaton for me to worship it. Terrorizing people does work though. Just look at Catholics with their Mass, indulgences, etc. It's basically all just one big hell avoidance plan with a hope of eternal life. (Philippians 2:12, Titus 1:2) Yep the other flavors of Christianity are silly. But not yours! Your flavor of Christianity is the one that isn't silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 That's because owning people ISN'T a sin in the bible. but the bible does say to obey the government and since the government is against slavery then I guess it would be a sin to own people Good thing that humans figured out for ourselves that slavery is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Hope? Are you kidding me? How can you trust an omniscient, omnipotent dictator that allowed you to be born with a programming to break his arbitrary rules, blamed you for breaking them, and is going to burn you in a fire if you do not repent of the things you did because of your programming? What makes you so sure that he isn't just going to send everyone to Hell for giggles, while deceiving believers into thinking they'll get to spend all of eternity in his magical kingdom? it's hope because the bible does say it's possible to make it into heaven, but it is possible that God is deceiving me so that I'll go to hell. That's why it's a hope of eternal life, because I'm not 100% sure I'll make it There is no heaven and there is no hell. Nobody will make it into either place. When we die it is just like things were before we were born. Make your time here matter because you only have this life. Don't waste it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Hope? Are you kidding me? How can you trust an omniscient, omnipotent dictator that allowed you to be born with a programming to break his arbitrary rules, blamed you for breaking them, and is going to burn you in a fire if you do not repent of the things you did because of your programming? What makes you so sure that he isn't just going to send everyone to Hell for giggles, while deceiving believers into thinking they'll get to spend all of eternity in his magical kingdom? it's hope because the bible does say it's possible to make it into heaven, but it is possible that God is deceiving me so that I'll go to hell. That's why it's a hope of eternal life, because I'm not 100% sure I'll make it There is no heaven and there is no hell. Nobody will make it into either place. When we die it is just like things were before we were born. Make your time here matter because you only have this life. Don't waste it. But MM, When I got a Nintendo back in the 80s and it came with Super Mario Brothers, that taught us that eating green mushrooms gives us extra lives. The Japanese who designed the system used complex math and engineering skills and techniques in order to construct it, therefore it must be true! Can't you see the connection between Japanese 1980s programming and immortality through green mushrooms + the whole 9 yards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted August 1, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted August 1, 2014 We seriously need better christians on this website. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Yusuf wrote... "but the bible says to obey the government and since the government is against slavery then I guess it would be a sin to own people" Yusuf, Here's a reality check for you. When those words were written in the Bible, the US of A didn't exist and wouldn't exist for another 1,500 years or so. Those words were written as guidance for Christians in the time of Paul and the early church. The ruling government of that time was the Roman empire. Israel was a subjugated client-state, under Roman rule and authority. So, when the Bible says, 'obey the government' at that time these words meant, 'obey the Romans'. Got that? Now, the Romans were the top slave-makers and slave-dealers in the world. They conquered and enslaved whole towns, peoples and nations. The Romans owned hundreds of thousands of people as... property. But, as you've already pointed out... the Bible clearly says to obey the [Roman] government. . . . So can you work out what that means in terms of sin and sinful behaviour? . . . If you guess that it's a sin to own people... why do you think the Bible is telling Christians to sin like this? . . . Thanks, BAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkillusion Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Hope? Are you kidding me? How can you trust an omniscient, omnipotent dictator that allowed you to be born with a programming to break his arbitrary rules, blamed you for breaking them, and is going to burn you in a fire if you do not repent of the things you did because of your programming? What makes you so sure that he isn't just going to send everyone to Hell for giggles, while deceiving believers into thinking they'll get to spend all of eternity in his magical kingdom? it's hope because the bible does say it's possible to make it into heaven, but it is possible that God is deceiving me so that I'll go to hell. That's why it's a hope of eternal life, because I'm not 100% sure I'll make it I don't understand this brand of christianity. When I was a christian, our main evangelistic tactic toward muslims was that as a christian you KNOW you're saved. A muslim will never know because they are just hoping their good deeds will be enough to save them in the end when they stand before allah. With Jesus, christians are supposed to know they are saved, have the peace that surpasses all understanding. They screw up, but good ol' jesus is always there to cover for them. If not for this, what the heck do they have to offer to nonbelievers? What then would you have to offer muslims to convince them your religion is superior? Who is going to convert to christianity because it gives them a tiny shred of hope for eternal life, while having a lifetime of guilt trying to still do all the right things? I thought we were supposed to rest in jesus? To know that our work is done and he did all the work for us? But it was a step toward deconversion for me when I realized the barbarity of my religion. That I didn't even want to convince people of it anymore because it didn't make sense to me so how could I expect it to make sense to them? The fact that I only wanted to give nonbelievers a copy of the New Testament with psalms and proverbs and leave out all the icky confusing nasty stuff in the Old Testament since it might scare them away from my religion became a red flag that something was wrong. So I urge you, Yusef, to just THINK for a moment. You might be so close to seeing your religion for what it truly is. You know you have nothing to offer us. You want to enslave us back into a religion of guilt and uncertainty because you fear for our eternal souls. You know what a terrible idea hell is, but you must accept it because god says he'll send people there and god must know what he's doing. I think one of the best resources for you right now is to research why jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah. Jews for Judaism is a great site that got me started on my path to deconversion. You will see how Jesus didn't fulfill any Old Testament prophecies. How unreliable outside sources from that time are (do you really think we'd only have a handful of historians making offhanded comments about this person when 500 loved ones rose from the dead when he came back?? doesn't that warrant a little more attention than it got?). And the main thing I learned? The concept of christianity with its human sacrifice, hell, and pushing god's chosen nation to the side is so incredibly ANTI Old Testament if you would only just read it without god goggles on. It's not as simple as you say, that Jesus came and fulfilled the law so the Old Testament doesn't matter anymore. No, christianity is diametrically opposed to the Old Testament, they teach things that are an abomination to the Old Testament god. How then can it be based on the same god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetbutterfly Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 When I was a christian, I used to suffer from severe guilt and shame from having impure thoughts and from being remorseful for the crazy things I did when I was unsaved. I quite literally gave myself a mental illness of my own making because of my perceived sins against the creator of the universe. I really must have grieved him because I was one of those bad girls. He wouldn't have had to kill his own son if it wasn't for me and my misdeeds and evil, lustful thoughts. I probably cried a million tears over how I had let him down. I would try to stop my eyes from seeing impure things that would hurt my imaginary friend jesus. There were so many things that hurt his precious ass all the time, that it got to the point where I wouldn't allow anything in my life that would cause him grief. I stopped watching movies, listening to the music I liked and I only listened or watched His stuff. I wanted so badly to be pure, but I never got there. I would ask him to cleanse me with his blood, but all that would do was make a bloody mess. I suffered inside and out trying to live up to his standards. Even if I sucessfully did it for a while, there would always be some Evangelist, Pastor, or gospel schoolmarm who could "convict" me of some new crime against His Holiness. Eventually, I was a useless mess of a person. I was unable to function in a society full of sinfullness and I became a bit of a hermit there for a bit. Then I had the guilt of not being "used" by god. How was I being a useful servant for him if I wasn't out there leading people to his magic lordship? I would tear myself apart with fear of him rejecting me for not being a good and faithful servant, and all for what??? How is punishing yourself for thought crimes a good way to live? How does doing this result in psychological peace? And christians... do you even know what the law is? When you eat at Red Lobster after church on Sunday, why is that ok? Does the holy spirit give you a pang of guilt then? Why is it that you are ok with breaking almost all the original laws that you claim fall under the grace loophole? But as for lust, there's no grace for that. I know I'm late to the party in this thread but I had to comment on this. I can completely relate to everything you said. I went through the same thing and made all the same fruitless attempts as you. All I know is that when I tried to listen to my conscience, I lived in absolute misery. Now I'm much happier. And honestly, not much in my daily life has changed except that I've stopped constantly beating myself up. I didn't change anything except the way I percieve myself and the world. It's not like I've suddenly taken up prostitution for extra cash or beat up the homeless for fun. I just no longer beat the emotional shit out of myself for having fleeting human thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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