Orbit Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Please post your favorites--here's mine, the death and resurrection story of ancient Roman Attis. March 15 (Ides): Canna intrat ("The Reed enters"), marking the birth of Attis and his exposure in the reeds along the Phrygian river Sangarius,[70] where he was discovered—depending on the version—by either shepherds or Cybele herself.[71] The reed was gathered and carried by the cannophores.[72] March 22: Arbor intrat ("The Tree enters"), commemorating the death of Attis under a pine tree. The dendrophores ("tree bearers") cut down a tree,[73] suspended from it an image of Attis,[74] and carried it to the temple with lamentations. The day was formalized as part of the official Roman calendar under Claudius.[75] A three-day period of mourning followed.[76] March 23: on the Tubilustrium, an archaic holiday to Mars, the tree was laid to rest at the temple of the Magna Mater, with the traditional beating of the shields by Mars' priests the Salii and the lustration of the trumpets perhaps assimilated to the noisy music of the Corybantes.[77] March 24: Sanguem or Dies Sanguinis ("Day of Blood"), a frenzy of mourning when the devotees whipped themselves to sprinkle the altars and effigy of Attis with their own blood; some performed the self-castrations of the Galli. The "sacred night" followed, with Attis placed in his ritual tomb.[78] March 25 (vernal equinox on the Roman calendar): Hilaria ("Rejoicing"), when Attis was reborn.[79] Some early Christian sources associate this day with the resurrection of Jesus.[80] Damascius attributed a "liberation from Hades" to the Hilaria.[81] Taken from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybele[/sup] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yes, pre-OT is good too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Hel - name of the ancient Nordic (Skandinavian/Germanic) Goddess of the dead and also the name of her realm. I'm sure it's just a weird coincidence that the jebus cult's realm of eternal (and sadistic and vengeful) damnation is named almost the same, right christians? Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 The Son of God assumes human form and comes to earth to teach a sinful and unbelieving generation to have faith, but runs into conflict with a royal authority figure who thinks he's a dangerous menace trying to stir up a rebellion. The Bacchae by Euripides. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bacchae 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Guys, these aren't real pre christian parallels. Satan planted all these stories to challenge our faith, because he knew what the power of jesus' name would have on the world! Don't fall for satan's trick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miekko Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Hel - name of the ancient Nordic (Skandinavian/Germanic) Goddess of the dead and also the name of her realm. I'm sure it's just a weird coincidence that the jebus cult's realm of eternal (and sadistic and vengeful) damnation is named almost the same, right christians? Right? Uhm... Hel as a name for it was adopted by Germanic Christians (i.e. Germans, Scandinavians, Anglosaxons) - if you are to ask an Italian, a Greek, a Syriac or a Russian Christian what the place is called, he or she won't say 'hel' or anything like it. The place had a name in Christianity before it was called hel, and that's, depending on tradition, either gehenna, or, infernus, and other linguistic traditions using other names, such as the Russian 'ad' or the Armenian 'dzhohk' or Georgian 'jojoheti'. The germanic name is basically just relatively late Christians reusing a name of a somewhat similar concept for their own concept. It is not proof of what you want it to be proof of. Essentially, your fallacy rests on believing that English is somehow the original language of Christianity. Your argument actually gets pretty close to King James-adherents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I'm not claiming that the term is 100 % universal across all the (christian) world - sorry if it sounded like that. Still, quite a few christians would probably bet their souls (ha ha) that the term "hell" is as original to their cult as it could be, no? It's not as universal a pre-christian parallel as some others I'm sure... but it is one, doncha think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miekko Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I'm not claiming that the term is 100 % universal across all the (christian) world - sorry if it sounded like that. Still, quite a few christians would probably bet their souls (ha ha) that the term "hell" is as original to their cult as it could be, no? It's not as universal a pre-christian parallel as some others I'm sure... but it is one, doncha think? I would say it's not. The idea of hell is not original to Christianity, but if we're going to keep them accountable for loaning words centuries later for ideas they borrowed in the early days of christianity, we could basically show how every single word in the bible predates Christianity. And that's a pretty invalid argument. Words like 'god', 'rood' (as in holyrood, meaning 'cross'(!)), 'righteous' all existed in Germanic languages before Christianity reached places where those languages were spoken. But on that basis ,you can't really claim the ideas of crucifiction, monotheism, righteousness and so on originated in Germanic religions and were stolen from there by christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Ah I see what you mean. A question of point of view I guess. Granted, you make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Yeah, to my understanding there were some common motifs in other religions that Christianity borrowed, but a lot of the comparisons out there have been exaggerated. Though most of us don't know a lot about those other religions, we as ex-christians should be tipped off when such comparisons refer to December 25. Sure, that date was later latched onto for Christmas, but we should all be aware that the Bible does not claim that Jesus was born on December 25. It's simply not there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted August 4, 2014 Moderator Share Posted August 4, 2014 Guys, these aren't real pre christian parallels. Satan planted all these stories to challenge our faith, because he knew what the power of jesus' name would have on the world! Don't fall for satan's trick! This, is, Jeopardy. answer: Who is Justin Martyr? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted August 4, 2014 Moderator Share Posted August 4, 2014 Yeah, to my understanding there were some common motifs in other religions that Christianity borrowed, but a lot of the comparisons out there have been exaggerated. Though most of us don't know a lot about those other religions, we as ex-christians should be tipped off when such comparisons refer to December 25. Sure, that date was later latched onto for Christmas, but we should all be aware that the Bible does not claim that Jesus was born on December 25. It's simply not there. Many people assume that. But this rabbit hole runs deep. For instance, here's a thread where a closer investigation goes down: http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2327 Fast forward to an interesting point that arose: The web's only site devoted to proof of Christ's December 25th birth The purpose of this site is to set forth the case, based upon Scripture and sacred history, of Christ’s birth, Dec. 25, 2 B.C. We believe the Dec. 25, 2 B.C., birth of our Lord is abundently demonstrated by competent Biblical evidence. The Biblical Case for the Dec. 25th Birth of Christ http://www.dec25th.info So these apologists, who are apparently appalled that so many Christians think that the Bible doesn't supply evidence which led to the reason Christmas was chosen on Dec 25th, set out to prove that the Bible does supply the evidence for a Dec 25th date. But they some how miss the point that by trying to prove that the Bible does supply evidence that points to a Dec 25th birth, they are in fact providing fuel to the pagan parallel theory which would then suggest that as far back as these books were being written, they were intentionally copying the pagan holiday in the Jesus myth. That they were alluding to that date from the outset. And considering that they were modeling this myth after things like Dionysus then it's not at all surprising to see the allusions in the gospels which is essentially what these apologists are pulling out. Take the John the Baptist and Jesus's birthday issue covered in my first link. There's certainly an early effort to see them as the solstices. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Listen, if any one reading this thread wants more depth on the pagan parallel argument raging on against the Christian apologists, then please check out this article written by a friend of mine who recently published his book: http://akhified.wordpress.com/2014/04/16/easter-bunnies-and-the-resurrection-of-the-moon/ And if the article catches any one's interest please check out his book for free: The Amen Creed He worked really hard on it and I'd like to see his work get good exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted August 4, 2014 Moderator Share Posted August 4, 2014 *duplicate* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 So these apologists, who are apparently appalled that so many Christians think that the Bible doesn't supply evidence which led to the reason Christmas was chosen on Dec 25th, set out to prove that the Bible does supply the evidence for a Dec 25th date. Yeah yeah yeah. Apologists are good at coming up with wordy rationalizations for whatever the hell they want. However, the simple fact is that the Bibles does not say that Jesus was born on December 25. While that date has traditionally been celebrated as Jesus' birthday, it's not based on the Bible at all. I looked at one of the links you supplied, and the arguments have serious flaws, as is typical of most apologetics arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_sel.htm http://celticatlanta.com/holidays/yule/ http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-general/why-christmas-held-25th-december-001161#!bzwHy4 http://www.weather.com/travel/6-ancient-tributes-winter-solstice-20131221 http://belsebuub.com/articles/ancient-sacred-sites-aligned-to-the-winter-solstice Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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