bolianbob Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Hey all, Haven't been here in a while, but I need to get this out there. Two months ago I decided to come off of my anti-depressants; I have been on them for 16 years. I had (and still am) started to eat very healthy and exercise ( as of 5.5 months into it I have lost over 50 lbs.) Anyway, like I said, two months ago, I was feeling awesome, I was probably on a healthy high. So, I decided to come off my pills cold turkey. I know that wasn't the best choice, but its done with and I am completely over the physical symptoms of withdrawal. The emotional symptoms, however, have been hard to get through. Being off the medications has opened up a lot of old fears about god, death, hell and all that wonderful stuff I thought I had left behind 6 or so years ago. These last two weeks have been the hardest - - I have really been struggling with an irrational fear of hell. I realize it is old thinking habits coming into my mind, with a combination of coming off of the medication; and I am combating these irrationalities with reason and my inner strength. Which, is still a very hard thing to accomplish - - I figure because of my evangelical upbringing I will have to do battle with these fears from time to time for the rest of my life. Last week I was really freaking out about my life: I'm gay, living with my partner, being almost 31 years old and not feeling like I have accomplished anything, a sense of loss while contemplating the innocence of childhood and how those days are gone and I can never have them back - - I was getting very nostalgic. So, I had a meltdown for the first time since my 'crisis of faith' 6 or so years ago. When I have had melt downs in the past I usually go home to my mom and dad's to get a mental recharge, and that is exactly what I did this time around. I opened up about my fears to my mother, because that is what I usually have done in the past; although, for these last 6 years our relationship has grown cold because of her faith and my rationality. I should have known better then to tell her what was bothering me, but I was at a very low point and she's my mom. I briefly told her about my fear of hell, how I think my relationship with my partner of 5 years is probably over and yadda yadda yadda. So, a weak goes by, and I start to feel like the clouds are departing. I know that I don't want to leave my partner - - we've built a good solid relationship and I will not throw it away. I started to feel at peace about letting go of being a kid, or even a young adult, and that what matters now is the future I am going to live for. It also felt good to reconnect with my parents. I even wanted to apologise to my mom for not really being there in our relationship for the past few years. I wanted to say from now on I am going to try and be more present in their lives regardless of what we disagree on. Things started to look up. That all change yesterday when my mom started to 'witness' her adherence to the 'Caveman's Guide to Life' to me. She had just come home from work and was sitting outside with the dogs; I thought it would be nice to go sit outside with her and continue our emotional reconnection. We start talking, and she asks me what am I going to do in regards to my situation. I said, I am going to go back to my home, which is with my partner. Restrained disappointment teased her face. She then asked well, how were my fears doing? My fear of getting older, or my fear of not being able to reacquire my childhood innocence. I just reaffirmed to her that is was all rooted in a sense of loss, of not being able to go back. Something that we all have to deal with. Then her mood became serious. "Well Matt, I just want to ask you about one of your earlier fears you told me about at the beginning of the week." I instantly knew she was going to talk about hell. All of the apprehension, fear and confusion that I had earlier had to take a back seat the rational indignation that boiled over me. Its to much to write about the utter INSANE things she brought up about Jesus being real; or how for the first time in her life she has to realize that she will not spend eternity with her children (my sister left the faith as well), or how my life is hopeless because there is nothing after death. Believe me, I did not let her off the hook, I pounded her about the immoraitly of eternal punishment and how only a psycho could even create a place like that...and if he had to create a place like that, then he himself is beholden to a greater power or truth, therefore making him not the all powerful. Her and I have had these discussion before, and I am not hating on her for her arguments. I am hating on her that she abused the trust that I placed in her. I came to her at a weak point in my life...the lowest I have been in a long time. And what does she do? Does she reconcile with me? Does she show me that she trusts me as an adult? Does she tell me that regardless of our beliefs we can still love and enjoy eachother s company as mother and son? No, she uses it as a sadistic opportunity to beat me over my head, using my old fears as her pulpit. It literally made me sick...I'm telling you I was flabbergasted. Mothers do NOT do this to their children. This is not moral. This is emotional abuse. It is sick. It is disgusting. Anyway, I knew then it was time to leave. And I came back home to my partner. Before I left my mom and dad's I looked at her, and tears in my eyes, I said, "What you just did is so very selfish! You are selfish. You have broken what little trust I had left with you. And that! That is what makes me the most sad." I knew those words got to her because she started to tear up and look away from me. And with that I left. I am home now with my partner, and very thankful. To be honest friends, I should almost phone my mom and THANK her for what she did. It literally just wonderfully finished the week I had. I finally realized, I finally saw what this virus faith does to people, and families. I thought what I was missing was my childhood, those memories of joy, innocence and wonder. But I will always have those feelings, those experiences, childhood or not. No, what my mom's little display of 'chirst's love' showed me was what kind of childhood I actually grew up in. It showed me where my fears became rooted, and how utterly parasitic those thoughts are, and how I am dealing with them today as an adult. It is a constant struggle to let go of that old way of thinking, that old 'morality' , that old 'all or nothing' mentality. But my goodness its worth it. I'm still struggling with those thoughts of hell. I know its ridiculous; the story in and of itself is so illogical. But the fear remains. Does anyone have any suggestions on how else to combat these old fears? Thanks for taking the time to read this. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetbutterfly Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I don't have anything insightful to suggest right now since I'm going through some of my own personal struggles as well, but I just want to offer some support. You sound very strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I don't have any advice for you Matt. I can relate to a lot of what you said, and I'm kinda in awe of how well you are dealing with things. All the best for your relationship with your partner and your continued good health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Sorry to hear about your mom. She certainly appears to have completely succumbed to what you aptly call the virus faith. What you describe is like the zombie movie scenes where the human turns to the loved family member, but the family member bites back. As for hell fears, the best way I know how to defang the idea of hellfire is to embrace it. To me, when I imagine myself burning in hell, I imagine myself blazing like the Phoenix. And who is to say that this isn't the better result than heaven? Yahweh, being foul-willed as he is, wouldn't he dread hell and long for heaven? He would dread hell. But how should his desires be the model for our desires, when we are so different? His desires have no bearing on our own. As they say, one person's heaven is another person's hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsborndaleIvanhoe Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Oh Matt, I'm so sorry you are going through this. I don't have any words of wisdom for you but I will say you have had some amazing clarity from that discussion/confrontation. Maybe, just maybe your last statement will cause some introspection on her behalf and she will be more careful in what she says to you from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deidre Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Deconverting is a marathon, and you may have those old fears pop up for a long time to come. Don't ignore them. Process them and then move forward. You sound like you are living authentically. That is a great thing, you know. You are braver and stronger than you even know. It's ok to fear. You are human, and I too sometimes wonder. Eventually, you will fear less. Stay true to you. Thanks for sharing this and I hope things get better soon. ((Hugs)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklady Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 im just going to comment on your age thing When I was 35 (after a short battle with cancer) I restarted my life, it was the start of my decoversion (took a while) I went to University, ended up with a masters, got my family out of poverty, changed my family, my life Its never to late... you are still young! lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolianbob Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 lol thank you Darklady. I am coming to that realization that right now, being at this age, its a good time to pull forward...and try not to look back. Thank you for your comment. ...and thank you all for your comments. Finding that inner strength is hard, but if one wants to survive and experience this life...we've gotta pull deep. Do what you need to do to find yourself. That is a beautiful picture Llwellyn. You are right Deidre, it sure is a marathon. Sometimes it feels like this: ...but not always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Anyway, I knew then it was time to leave. And I came back home to my partner. Before I left my mom and dad's I looked at her, and tears in my eyes, I said, "What you just did is so very selfish! You are selfish. You have broken what little trust I had left with you. And that! That is what makes me the most sad." I knew those words got to her because she started to tear up and look away from me. And with that I left. I'm still struggling with those thoughts of hell. I know its ridiculous; the story in and of itself is so illogical. But the fear remains. Does anyone have any suggestions on how else to combat these old fears? Thanks for taking the time to read this. Matt Hey Matt First I want to say I think you have been very alert and brave to tell your mom how selfish her behavior was. I experienced a situation where my mom told my brothers how they destroyed Christmas for her because they had rejected Christ and now they will probably not be with her in the end and she would suffer because of it. I was still in the Club back then but even I felt awkward and the selfishness of her preaching. But I was so short taken that only when I got back home I thought of calling her and telling her how she needed to see a psychologist. But when I did she was off to her vacation already. Family can be crazy. I have no trust in mine at all. I don't even ask for practical help like putting up a lamp or so... For the fears, I don't really have much to say from experience. Only that I am just looking into a 'technique' to look at my feelings. Like being more an observer when it happens. It helps me to not get lost in my emotions though when the storm hits hard it does not work. I signed up for a week where we do meditation and go back to that inner child that had been neglected, hurt, abused. It is about reconciling myself with that past child and to go through the feelings, to accept them and then to take care of the needs I had and have. Sounds a bit weird and there are some aspects of it I am quite sceptic but I thought why not give it a try. Basically it is about you going through your fears and feel what they do with you, go down to where they started and find out what they will tell you about yourself. Embracing yourself in that moment and know you always did the best you could to protect yourself and survive. I already did some meditations going this way. Unfortunately (for you) it all is in German, so I can't really give you a link or so. But I am sure you could find something similar in the US if you think that could be something for yourself. The week takes place in November, so I can tell you more by December...know it is a lot of time to pass... Have you looked into the topic of Complex PTSD or Religious PTSD? Well, I bet if you took meds you probably did. Sending you a hug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 My advice is to get back on your meds--you were feeling good then for a reason, and feeling bad now for a reason. These fears and worries are probably being made worse by depression. Good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilovemybrain Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 I second what Orbit said...If you have clinical depression, you really need to be on your meds. I have it too, and I've felt the same thing "I'm feeling great, I don't need these anymore" but then I realize I was feeling better because of my meds. Depression usually doesn't go away, and most people need meds for the rest of their lives. It sucks but IMO it's worth it to stay even-keeled and clear-headed. Also (and I have no immediate references to go fact check this) I've read many times that each successive depressive episode actually damages the brain somewhat, making it more predisposed to have another, worse episode. So it gets worse each time and is probably worth staying on meds to prevent that. If your meds are causing problems, by all means, talk to your Dr. and see if you need to switch or try a different dose. Whatever you decide, I hope things start looking up for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 The problem with trying to advise on this type of issue is that nothing really sounds adequate and most things can sound heartless. Returning to your medication sounds and excellent idea. As to your mother - chalk this down to experience. She has her beliefs and will act in accordance with them. You cannot expect her to do otherwise. Do not deal with this any further until your medical position and fears are stabilized. Given the medical history, I am unsure that any strategy for dealing with irrational fear will help without medical intervention. Any such strategy will come down to constant reassurance. Work out a short logical progression of why you know (rationally) that hell is a nonsense. Learn it by heart. Then repeat it whenever the fears intrude. But please consider whether you need those anti-depressants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolianbob Posted August 3, 2014 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 Moana, Its funny how the brain works; in regards to how we compartmentalize our experiences with reality. For instance, when you talk about putting up a lamp. That is such a real experience; its something we touch, feel, and understand the process of. Yet on the flip side, a theist obviously has the mental capacity to put together a lamp using those same mental functions; yet, in the next moment they can contemplate a caterpillar building its cocoon and then marvel awesome the creator is, as they finishing screwing the lamp together. Its insanity. Or maybe its just our brains going, 'ok, you want to believe this shit? Fine, but we still have a lamp we need to put together.' I agree about meditation. I have been talking with a meditative yoga instructor for a while. I am going to have to take the plunge and try it out. Orbit, Ellinas & Ilovemybrain I know medication is a tricky subject. I don't deny that it hasn't helped me. I come from a family that is all on medication, my mother included. I just think there is a better way...but in the end we all have to do what is best for the each of us. I am cognitively working through this mess in my head; and I know that my diet and exercise is helping...especially the diet. I will be talking with my therapist soon; and I hope to get some clarity there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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