Double A7 Christian Question Avoidance

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

Storm

The bible is your basis for belief. If the bible isn't perfect (and all the other stuff I mentioned in my first post) how can you base your whole life and worldview on it?

 

4 things

1 Science isnt perfect yet you rely on it all the time, it doesnt waver your belief in it, just because it doesnt have an %100% all the answers, so there may be things i dont %100% understand but doesnt change the end result

 

2. Now im not an expert on the translation process, but i do know oral tradition was the means of travel for the word of God, no cameras or picture taking, how else was they going to transport it? other than oral tradition, keep in mind that is different from WORD OF MOUTH. the Scholars involved with oral traditon were professionals they had to memorize entire books without a single word off they would get SCOLDed, it was only in the translation process of Greek and hebrew there were small discrepancies spelling and small grammar mistakes but due to some words not being a direct translation it seemed like everything was off.

 

3.Differnet authors in different locations i know you heard that before, but what does it mean? it means natural small discrepancies would actually indicate it that humans were genuine in their writings but the general message was not changed. 2 People can see the EXACT same thing but describe it differently slightly, Does it change the entire event? No

 

4. I base my life on it because to me the things the bible said has come true in reality. not talking about prophecy in this context, im talking about how we life our life it matched what was described in the bible. God has never let me down. That has been true to me everyday without fail. I seen how all acorss the entire world how christianty and the bible has changed peoples lives for the better. There are stories where preachers have used religious sentiment to hurt and control people, people have been killed ebcause of religions for 1,000 of years, but this simple fact is because people are taking what was used to help people and using it HURT people. Look at the many people who POSED as Jesus and led people astray and to their death Jin hones and some other guy name david somethin. Wikepedia has an entire list....So..KNOWING this shows i understand Religion has hurt people, but that doesnt mean it is the intention, Hence why we say its about a relationship not religion. I dont feel fear towards God, No guilt, no manipulation or deception, no force or tactics for me to commit. Devotion is only REAL if unfaithfulness if possible. I CHOSE not was forced. Peoples hearts is the problem not the organization, Docotrs have hurt people but we still trust them because it was just that individual. An organization cannot run itself, Its the heart of man that is behind all organizations even the Police have hurt THOUSANDS of people on purpose and with malicious intent, but we still trust them because that is not their intent. This is why i still trust God Despite what some wackos have done like the wesboro baptist church

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

fair enough Disillusioned perhaps we can have informal discussion in the topic bornagainathiest asked me, since hasnt been tainted with a million posts. http://www.ex-christ...1/#.U9_DvfldVzM  I will be posting in there Later.

 

Bornagainathiest I discuss cosomology there. Since this topic is dead as a battery.

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

Shabby tecnically this topic shot to pieces, there were barely any questions asked, just a few because people got bored because i wasnt being a jerk and because i didnt make a real claim. That seem like the only way to get people to respond around here, not all of course, just some. If you are a jerk they will be a jerk abck and it add for fun interaction, if you make a claim they come pouncing like pirahnas in a pool, but i heard they are vegetatians lol idk but hey, I always up for another question lol. you come for genuine questions thanks Shabby others try to be a KNOW it all saying hey HEARD it all. Im sure they heard alot, but if they are not perfect there is something they havent heard. Now this is borderline mean so somebody may get ready to take their gloves off, lol although i wasnt actually serious so hopefully they dont take it as so. There people who are just as genuine and responding with honest inquirt just like i am, so no hard done, i mean I for sure dont know it all im just a kid answering questions for discussion.

 

Shabby

I didn't read all the posts so this question may have already been asked, but was God guilty of murder and genocide in the Old Testament?

 

Well MURDER is different from KILLING

Murder is the unlawful "killing" of another person, but killing is a broader term. One can kill by accident or in self defense or justifed killing though lethal injection or electric chair. Some would say well God did it on PURPOSE well so do soliders in War they kill people on purpose, it is still not Murder.

 

So with God yes he did kill people but the people he killed were MURDERING other people, raping kids and women, torturing babies, eating people creating HAVOC upon their fellow men. God killed them because they were already destroying themselfves and after many many many warns to stop and patience for them to change their ways they remained the same. Shall we let people viciously destroy the world? or is God required to act and stop the suffering. Im glad this doesnt happen today otherwise I myself would have been dead all the things i Did to christians, towards God, at Church all before i became a christian

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

Florduh unintentionally asked

 

I just wonder where he is for all those suffering serious misery.

 

So you see questions doesnt always have to be questions like Why did God Do this or That, sometimes they are just genuien concerns we have for people. Florduh you been a christian so im assuming you dont need me to answer this questions, i mean you pretty much know so many responses that been dished out like macaroni nothing new but you said the word "I Wonder" a genuien inquiry you love people and perhaps you wonder how and why such a God would let this happen. But looks like you already have your answer correct?

[Roz]

1A, how do you feel about your god ordering people just like you (believers) to kill babies?

 

1 Sam. 15

2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.

3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

Since you believe that the bible is true, your god commanded this be done.  "Thus saith the lord of hosts."  "slay both man and woman, infant and suckling (that means babies)"

[Storm]

Storm

The bible is your basis for belief. If the bible isn't perfect (and all the other stuff I mentioned in my first post) how can you base your whole life and worldview on it?

 

4 things

1 Science isnt perfect yet you rely on it all the time, it doesnt waver your belief in it, just because it doesnt have an %100% all the answers, so there may be things i dont %100% understand but doesnt change the end result

 

2. Now im not an expert on the translation process, but i do know oral tradition was the means of travel for the word of God, no cameras or picture taking, how else was they going to transport it? other than oral tradition, keep in mind that is different from WORD OF MOUTH. the Scholars involved with oral traditon were professionals they had to memorize entire books without a single word off they would get SCOLDed, it was only in the translation process of Greek and hebrew there were small discrepancies spelling and small grammar mistakes but due to some words not being a direct translation it seemed like everything was off.

 

3.Differnet authors in different locations i know you heard that before, but what does it mean? it means natural small discrepancies would actually indicate it that humans were genuine in their writings but the general message was not changed. 2 People can see the EXACT same thing but describe it differently slightly, Does it change the entire event? No

 

4. I base my life on it because to me the things the bible said has come true in reality. not talking about prophecy in this context, im talking about how we life our life it matched what was described in the bible. God has never let me down. That has been true to me everyday without fail. I seen how all acorss the entire world how christianty and the bible has changed peoples lives for the better. There are stories where preachers have used religious sentiment to hurt and control people, people have been killed ebcause of religions for 1,000 of years, but this simple fact is because people are taking what was used to help people and using it HURT people. Look at the many people who POSED as Jesus and led people astray and to their death Jin hones and some other guy name david somethin. Wikepedia has an entire list....So..KNOWING this shows i understand Religion has hurt people, but that doesnt mean it is the intention, Hence why we say its about a relationship not religion. I dont feel fear towards God, No guilt, no manipulation or deception, no force or tactics for me to commit. Devotion is only REAL if unfaithfulness if possible. I CHOSE not was forced. Peoples hearts is the problem not the organization, Docotrs have hurt people but we still trust them because it was just that individual. An organization cannot run itself, Its the heart of man that is behind all organizations even the Police have hurt THOUSANDS of people on purpose and with malicious intent, but we still trust them because that is not their intent. This is why i still trust God Despite what some wackos have done like the wesboro baptist church

You have clearly indicated that you really don't know much about the book that you base your whole life's meaning from. I strongly suggest that you work towards understanding the background of the very book that you swear gives your life its purpose and meaning.

 

Here is a list of a few things that ruin the bible's credibility:

No known authors: We do not know the authors of any of the books of the bible for sure, but there are some scholarly ideas as to who wrote each book. Here is a link to a good web page that breaks down the "authors" of the bible. For all you know, a bunch of crackpot vagabond sheep herders wrote a bunch of books. It would be the equivalent of 40 people in the Midwest writing books and telling stories of god and publishing the book for you to base your life on. Hardly anyone would seriously take that book as a moral guide and that it was true, nor accept that it was truly the inspired word of god. You would think those people were nuts. The bible is no different. It has all the same elements of the allegory I just made.

 

Historical evidence about the truth of Biblical history: While some biblical archaeology has confirmed some stories in the bible, the majority of archaeology done shows that many of the key historical events that Jews and Christians believe happened in the bible did not actually happen. There may be small truths to the stories, but the majority of those stories are embellishments (oftentimes used to boost national pride and unite them together).

 

Some important stories that no archaeological evidence has been found: 

A global flood, the enslavement of millions of Jews in Egypt by pharaoh. any of the 10 plagues on Egypt, The exodus. Very little evidence exists whether or not there was a King David. It is still heavily debated whether or not he existed. No evidence has been found for a King Solomon. Information here if you're interested.

 

The biggest problem of all for Christians is that there is no definitive evidence that Jesus ever existed. Many scholars believe that it was possible and likely that someone named Jesus existed, but no one has 100% definitive proof. The same holds true for his crucifixion. No evidence that it ever happened.

 

There are no eyewitnesses that actually wrote any books of the new testament in regards to Jesus and his death. All of the Gospels were written decades after his supposed death. And even then, the majority of Biblical scholars agree that the authors of Matthew and Luke copied and adjusted the gospel of Mark to change what they believe happened. The gospels do not line up historically and each gospel tells a different story about Jesus' death and resurrection. Why? If this was truly god's inspired word, why are there so many problems with the gospel story of Jesus' death and resurrection?

 

In regards to your life and your experiences...You base your life on a perception of god and the way you have been raised. All of our life experiences hinge upon the millions of interactions and experiences that we have had in our lifetime up to that point. You say that god has never failed you, but I can probably fill a book with a list of unanswered prayers and failed attempts to find gods presence and direction in your life. I know this is true because it is a reality in my life. You choose to overlook those unanswered prayers and failed attempts because you can't stand the thought that god wouldn't do what he promised.

 

The truth is that all of those people who believe that their lives got better because of Jesus, simply did the work themselves. Addicts get freed from drugs and alcohol by working through their treatment and white knuckling it sometimes. People change their lives because they want to, not because god empowers them or heals them. The default answer in any situation that is unexplainable is not "it must be god", but is really "I don't know". "I don't know" is intellectually honest and better explains things.

 

I am in agreement with the others in this thread. You haven't answered anything in any new way that hoards of other Christians haven't tried explaining. We were all Christians at one time. But we finally learned the real truth. We lived a lie. We believed in a fairy tale.

 

But now we are free.

 

*Edited for Grammar

[florduh]

perhaps you wonder how and why such a God would let this happen

 

No, I merely point out the the idiocy of saying a god assisted you while ignoring the agony of millions in poverty and disease. Yours is a deity known in America for helping Christians find parking spaces but not addressing painful, deadly birth defects, abject poverty and starvation among his supposed creations/children. It's such a stupid concept I can't find words to coherently discuss it.

 

The logical conclusion is not that such a god has his mysterious ways or is evil, but rather that he doesn't exist outside the mind of the believer. Obviously, that is not the only reason to suspect that the god construct is faulty.

[midniterider]

I'll answer these so you dont have to:

 

Why dont God show himself?

 

Because it would take away our free will. Somehow. Dunno how. But the other churchies say that so I will too. Next!

 

Why didn't jesus heal himself if he was so powerful?

 

He had to fulfill prophecy. So he died for a day and a half then went to heaven. What a sacrifice, eh? Next!

 

why did God make Adam and Eve if he knew they were going to sin? aka why did God put the tree there if he knew they were going to eat it?

 

It's an allegory.  Skeptic asks, "But If it's allegory , then original sin never happened..."  What? Hey look, a unicorn! Next!

 

why doesn't God heal amputees?

 

Not your will, but His. His ways are mysterious. Next!

was it part of the plan for a child to die in a car accident? give me one good reason how this is a good plan?

 

His mysterious ways. Next! 

[par4dcourse]

The world makes sense when you finally realize ain't nobody driving the bus.

[Roz]

The world makes sense when you finally realize ain't nobody driving the bus.

 

Then you realize you've been paying the bus fare to lying bastards all along.

[Ravenstar]

Fixed it for ya… ;D

 

Hola so...Double A7 here.

So I'm here to answer any questions you (would like to) ask a Christian and that you feel they avoid like the plague.


Keep in mind that I am outnumbered, so to avoid being overrun I request that your questions be short and to the point. Please understand I can only respond once a day, sometimes more, but please, I know I dropped the ball last time but that's because there was no order and it was mixed with huge posts.

If you have any recommendations on how else to do this please let me know. Heck, message me personally if I somehow keep skipping over it and I will copy and paste my answers Into this topic.

I will tell you right now I am 100% certain my answer will not fit exactly the answer you are hoping for. (icky sentence structure but, alright.)

My purpose is just to at least give an honest and truthful response even if you don't like it, but I promise you this; I will not make up my responses, no gimmicks.

These are just sample questions that I used to ask before I became a Christian:

Why doesn't God show himself?

Why didn't Jesus heal himself if he was so powerful?

Why did God make Adam and Eve if he knew they were going to sin? aka why did God put the tree there if he knew they were going to eat it?

Why doesn't God heal amputees?

Was it part of [the] (God's perfect) plan for a child to die in a car accident? Give me one good reason how this is a good plan?

Etc... You get the idea although you cannot use the questions above. Lol, just kidding, you can if you like.

But, can you please ask a personal question and general question. (sentence begun with a preposition, please avoid, kai thx!)

I will start.

Personal
If you have a Christian girlfriend/boyfriend are you ok with them believing you are going to hell because isn't that worse than them believing you were cheating when you weren't?


General
Even though there isn't evidence of God what alternative option would you need to see to consider Christianity? More consistency? No hell? More loving people? Etc... 

Pretty simple enough I guess. THIS is a huge a request but can you limit it to one response a day? This will give me ample time to answer everyone but please don't ask another question if I haven't gotten back to you from the day before.

I.will.make.an.honest effort to answer as fast I can so I don't get overrun.

So personal Q about me and General Q and then once I answer you can respond. However please, if you can, refrain from 2nd set of questions until the next day.

 

Thank you, I appreciate your cooperation and patience - this will be very helpful to facilitate communication.

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

Ravenstar....WOW .you....are...awesome... i..i.. owe you. What you want me to do? evidence for Jeus, i'll FIND IT! send it to you by mail. Dont tell anyone though it could be a revolutioanry discovery, and then scientist come to my house but its mess right now.

 

Anyone else that want evidence for Jesus i will need your credit card number and social

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

Ravenstar....WOW .you....are...awesome... i..i.. owe you. What you want me to do? evidence for Jeus, i'll FIND IT! send it to you by mail. Dont tell anyone though it could be a revolutioanry discovery, and then scientist come to my house but its mess right now.

 

Anyone else that want evidence for Jesus i will need your credit card number and social

 

My credit #: 6666 6666 6666 6666

My SS#: 666 - 66 - 6666

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

Ok, I will take my time now, and i will preview what i am saying because i don't want to put to put Ravenstar through so trouble. Again Thank you!

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

crazy Guy...Okay thank you for the information. Estimated Delivery time 6,000 years.

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

Ravenstar

 

why was the word Weren't more appropriate than the word wasn't in that context what is the difference between the two?

[moanareina]

OK, here is my question:

 

What in this f*cking world makes you think anyone on this forum would be interested in asking you any of your supposed questions?

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

Moriena

answer

they wouldnt be interested, never said they would, im simply posting for discussion. sound simple enough to me.

*Yawns* now you want to take turns and answer my question in OP second one?

[moanareina]

Yes, yawns.

 

To your satisfaction: Why didn't jesus heal himself if he was so powerful?

 

The Christian answer:

Jesus was sick? When...? Ah, you mean when he got crucified? Didn't he? I mean isn't raising from the dead after three days like healing oneself? How is that even a question?

 

My answer: It is all fiction. The author of the story can chose whatever reason he wants to for an all powerful person to heal himself or not if needed.

[Darklady]

1aa1

 

you really have nothing to offer different to any other christian.

You seem to forget, a number here have been pastors, have degrees in theology (as I do ).

Most seem to have better understanding of christianity than you.

 

you chat with me recently showed me that you have nothing but stock answers.

 

I suggest you just listen and learn, you may actually come away with a better understanding of us than you have currently.

Listen and learn, stop trying to teach us anything.

[Ravenstar]

wasn't is a contraction of 'was not'.. weren't is a contraction of 'were not'.

 

 

was  [wuhz, woz; unstressed wuhz] 

verb

1st and 3rd person singular pt. indicative of be.

 

were  [wur; unstressed wer; British also wair]

verb

a 2nd person singular pt. indicative, plural past indicative, and past subjunctive of be.

 

Try the sentence again in out loud without the contractions.

 

Okay...

 

Original: If you have a Christian girlfriend/boyfriend are you ok with them believing you going to hell because isn't that worse than them believing you were cheating when you wasn't?

 

My version: If you have a Christian girlfriend/boyfriend are you ok with them believing you are going to hell because isn't that worse than them believing you were cheating when you weren't?

 

Your version if consistent: If you have a Christian girlfriend/boyfriend are you ok with them believing you are going to hell because isn't that worse than them believing you was cheating when you wasn't?

[sdelsolray]

This one has had difficulty socializing with other humans, including his biological kin.  Because of this, and because of childhood Christian indoctrination by trusted adults, he now feels more safe and emotionally satisfied believing in the Christian religion than dealing with other humans and his anti-social dysfunctions.  The self-medication is obvious, as is his ignorance and cowardice to deal with reality.

 

He is getting much more out of posting here than is his audience.

[Ravenstar]

I'm brushing up on my english skills!  

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH I SEEEEEEEE Thanks Raven Star. So because i used was before hand i need to match the contraction. GOT it. NICEEEEEEEE

 

 Now i can use my new found spelling powers against Darklady in the chatroom, she seem to have misunderstood half of what i was saying with my stock answers versus her stock questions. Darlady if you want to have a formal Debate at www.debate.org we can display it here for all to see, feel free to create a profile

[Wonya]

Sorry that this is so late. I just saw this thread.

 

 

.


Personal
If you have a Christian girlfriend/boyfriend are you ok with them believing you going to hell because isn't that worse than them believing you were cheating when you wasn't?
 

​This doesn't really  apply to me ( even when I was a christian, I could not understand why people got so outraged with sexual infidelity,porn ect.) Except that I have 2 daughters that are still believers,(our family did not leave christianity soon enough)they are concerned that my soul will be in hell, especially since I almost died when I had my stroke. One positive thing though is, they say I am much more happy and peaceful and relaxed since I have left x-ianity.

General
Even if there wasn't evidence God what alternative option would u need to see to consider christiany? More consistency? No hell? More loving people? Etc

 

Let me try to answer this way, To me your question sounds the same to me as if you would have asked, "What would it take for you to believe in the Invisible Flying Spaghetti Monster, or Allah, or Santa etc. If there is no evidence, what else matters? Maybe if you give me a million bucks, I could pretend to believe.