Depression And The "choice" Of Suicide

[Storm]

So as I was doing my morning routine this morning, I was going through my Facebook feed and a friend of mine liked this article by Blogger Matt Walsh. As a general rule, I typically find this guy to be a decent blogger and he brings an interesting perspective to some topics that Christians deal with. But, this article by far and away is a slap in the face towards those who struggle with depression, and to a larger scale, Mental Illness. His blatant lack of understanding of Depression and how it affects people and how he attributes it to being a spiritual problem really irked me this morning.

 

Even as a Christian, I understood the harrowing effects of mental illness on people and I never associated it with being a spiritual problem. I saw it for what it truly is, which is a disease of the mind. Some of the diagnoses can be cured or regulated with medication and others can only be somewhat regulated with medication and therapy. This is much like the variety of illnesses and diseases of the body. Some are curable and healable, others are not. I don't believe that this is a difficult thing to grasp. But I have always noticed that, despite the stigma that people face in regards to mental illness in general society, I feel that christianity takes it a step further and twists it into something it isn't. They turn it into something that only god can fix. I hate that.

 

As I thought about mental illness from a Christian perspective, one thing that struck me as odd was that you always hear about how god healed people from physical issues like cancer or serious diseases, but you never hear about people being healed of Schizophrenia or Bipolar disorder or any of the most serious mental illnesses, or any mental illness for that matter. Why is that? Food for thought.

 

Mr. Walsh showed his ignorance in true form when he made the declaration that

"No depressed person in the history of the world has ever been in the depths of despair and at the heights of joy at the same time. The two cannot coexist. Joy is light, depression is darkness. When we are depressed, we have trouble seeing joy, or feeling it, or feeling worthy of it. I know that in my worst times, at my lowest points, it’s not that I don’t see the joy in creation, it’s just that I think myself too awful and sinful a man to share in it." (Emphasis Mine)

 

So he compounds that depression with adding shame and worthlessness to it. That surely helps. I am already depressed, but because of god, I am just going to heap more bad thoughts of my worthlessness and weakness into the fray so I can feel better because god can surely help me. Seriously? That is mental illness. 

 

he goes on to say
"So this, for me, is always the most essential moral at the end of these kinds of sad, terrible stories: we are all meant for joy. We are all meant for love. We are all meant for life. And as long as we can still draw breath, there is joy and love to be found here. I believe that. If I didn’t, I would have left a long time ago.

Joy and love. There might not be much else for us on this Earth, but these are the only two things that matter anyway. These are the forces that brought the whole universe into being, and these are the forces that sustain it, and us, and all life." (Emphasis Mine)

 

Its all about joy. and love. Joy and love are the cure to all that ails humanity. And where do you get that joy and love? From God of course. He doesn't actually say that, but I think its logical to conclude that is where he is going.

 

I don't remember taking a class on "Joy therapy" or "Love therapy" when I was majoring in Psychology and Counseling in college. It appears that many of the brightest minds in counseling and psychology have been wrong all these years and that we just need to dole out prescriptions for joy and love left and right so that we can fend off depression and rid it from our world once and for all. Thanks Mr. Walsh for that wonderful recipe for fixing life.

 

This, folks, is what Christianity does to your brain. This is how your reality gets distorted and this is how you find yourselves saying things that don't make sense and that show the actual thinking world how truly ignorant you are.

 

Read through the comments at the bottom of his blog and you will see that he is taking a serious backlash for his views.

 

Welcome to Christianity. Where everything is made up and the points don't matter.

 

That's my morning rant for today. Hope yours is a great one.

[Deidre]

And unfortunately, he will pay no mind to the back lash against his comments because well, that's persecution, after all. :/

 

What an insightful post, Storm!! Thank you.

[amateur]

Some years ago I suffered from depression for a short time, and it is something I don't like remembering.  It was caused by a medical treatment which messed up my chemicals, but the doctor had NOT prepared me for it, nor did anyone in the doctor's office help me when I called, crying, to ask what was happening to me.  Anyway, it wasn't until it was over that I realized that it was depression because I did NOT feel depressed or sad, rather I felt like I did not deserve to be alive.  I had a very quiet, strong feeling of not being worthy of living, and daily thought about driving my car at 70 mph into a jersey barrier on the way to work.  The thought wasn't shocking at all; I felt absolutely dead and muffled inside.  I absolutely KNEW that I didn't deserve to live and that NOBODY would miss me or care, not even my kids.  It was so real, and I could not think about it objectively while it was happening for those few months.  The only thing that kept me alive was a strong sense of responsibility (felt with dejection) with the thought of, "I may as well go to work now and not die because they won't be able to fill my shift with no notice."  That thought, or the thought of the car wreck, was not even slightly shocking; it was so matter-of-fact.  Nobody cared if I lived or died and I KNEW that.  Luckily, near the end something inside of me made me do a search on "side effects of [name of medication]" and a lot of people described serious depression like I was feeling and I realized it was a bad chemical reaction, which luckily wore off very shortly after.  The doctor's office completely ignored anything I said about it, even after, and that was the beginning of my completely losing my faith in the medical system.

 

What's really strange is that ever since then, and it's been maybe seven years, but whenever I get really depressed now over normal life issues with a more normal depressed, sad feeling, my mind will now automatically go, "I should just die, it'd be easier."  I know I won't do anything, but it's a real thought and is very serious.  It's now like some default mode in my brain which I never had before.  I honestly think something in my head got switched.  Don't worry about me -- I'm not suicidal and when this happens I can now think about it objectively so even though a very serious part of my brain is saying, "I should just die," another part is able to chime in with, "That's just that leftover thing happening again.  Relax and give it some time."  Then I slog through some time until it passes.

 

Anyway, the point is, ever since I went through the original thing my opinion on depression and anxiety and other mental illness issues completely changed.  I certainly don't know what's going on in anyone else's head, but I know that what is going on in their head is very real to them and nothing about it is a choice.  When I hear things like "cheer up" or "be strong" or "have a good attitude" directed towards people with depression, I seriously want to kick them.  Gee, if it were THAT easy, people would JUST cheer up or change their fucking attitude and NOT feel that horrible depression burying them under mounds and mounds of muffling, dense foam.

 

I have heard xian preachers talk about this, too, with how god can help and praying, etc.  No, no, no.  I want to kick them too.  They need to stop diagnosing and prescribing god for serious, real mental illnesses.

[Storm]

Some years ago I suffered from depression for a short time, and it is something I don't like remembering.  It was caused by a medical treatment which messed up my chemicals, but the doctor had NOT prepared me for it, nor did anyone in the doctor's office help me when I called, crying, to ask what was happening to me.  Anyway, it wasn't until it was over that I realized that it was depression because I did NOT feel depressed or sad, rather I felt like I did not deserve to be alive.  I had a very quiet, strong feeling of not being worthy of living, and daily thought about driving my car at 70 mph into a jersey barrier on the way to work.  The thought wasn't shocking at all; I felt absolutely dead and muffled inside.  I absolutely KNEW that I didn't deserve to live and that NOBODY would miss me or care, not even my kids.  It was so real, and I could not think about it objectively while it was happening for those few months.  The only thing that kept me alive was a strong sense of responsibility (felt with dejection) with the thought of, "I may as well go to work now and not die because they won't be able to fill my shift with no notice."  That thought, or the thought of the car wreck, was not even slightly shocking; it was so matter-of-fact.  Nobody cared if I lived or died and I KNEW that.  Luckily, near the end something inside of me made me do a search on "side effects of [name of medication]" and a lot of people described serious depression like I was feeling and I realized it was a bad chemical reaction, which luckily wore off very shortly after.  The doctor's office completely ignored anything I said about it, even after, and that was the beginning of my completely losing my faith in the medical system.

 

What's really strange is that ever since then, and it's been maybe seven years, but whenever I get really depressed now over normal life issues with a more normal depressed, sad feeling, my mind will now automatically go, "I should just die, it'd be easier."  I know I won't do anything, but it's a real thought and is very serious.  It's now like some default mode in my brain which I never had before.  I honestly think something in my head got switched.  Don't worry about me -- I'm not suicidal and when this happens I can now think about it objectively so even though a very serious part of my brain is saying, "I should just die," another part is able to chime in with, "That's just that leftover thing happening again.  Relax and give it some time."  Then I slog through some time until it passes.

 

Anyway, the point is, ever since I went through the original thing my opinion on depression and anxiety and other mental illness issues completely changed.  I certainly don't know what's going on in anyone else's head, but I know that what is going on in their head is very real to them and nothing about it is a choice.  When I hear things like "cheer up" or "be strong" or "have a good attitude" directed towards people with depression, I seriously want to kick them.  Gee, if it were THAT easy, people would JUST cheer up or change their fucking attitude and NOT feel that horrible depression burying them under mounds and mounds of muffling, dense foam.

 

I have heard xian preachers talk about this, too, with how god can help and praying, etc.  No, no, no.  I want to kick them too.  They need to stop diagnosing and prescribing god for serious, real mental illnesses.

Thanks for sharing this. It plays exactly into what I understand depression to be.

[Storm]

So the backlash continues. The Blogger has posted this in response to all the people who have spoken ill of him and his views. He is really taking some heat.

[violetbutterfly]

I've suffered from depression and have had obsessive suicidal fantasies. Some not too long ago. I can't even bring myself to click the link. I'm so sick of the high and mighty attitude people have in general regarding mental illness.

[Storm]

I've suffered from depression and have had obsessive suicidal fantasies. Some not too long ago. I can't even bring myself to click the link. I'm so sick of the high and mighty attitude people have in general regarding mental illness.

Exactly. If he really understood Depression and Suicide, he would not have written what he did. Its just a Christian sugar coat of something they don't understand and they think that god has all the answers. Its so sad. I am repulsed by it.

[violetbutterfly]

So I couldn't help myself and I started reading it, and now I'm infuriated. Fuck you, Matt Walsh and honestly anyone who believes it is a choice. That's the entire problem, it's NOT a choice. You AREN'T in control. I am so scared of myself sometimes that I won't be able to stop myself. That is not control. Go ahead and "disapprove" all you want. Now I'm pissed. I need to go cool off.

[violetbutterfly]

Some quotes I've heard recently:

 

Depression is like a war. You either win or die trying.

 

People who die by suicide don't want to end their lives, they want to end their pain.

 

Suicide is not the problem, it is the end result.

 

I really haven't talked about this, to anyone really...but it's seems like recently I've had more suicidal people at work than ever before. I've found myself talking someone out of suicide and then fantasizing about it myself hours later. Sometimes I'd be jealous that they ones who attempted suicide had the guts to do it, but the ones that actually succeed are like a slap in the face. Especially when I talk to their families. It's such a mind fuck. Especially at 3am when I'm home alone and can't sleep.

[amateur]

violetbutterfly, I'm sorry.  Feel free to let things out or vent on here.

[Storm]

Violet, sorry for bringing you some pain. It really upset me as well and needed to vent just how ignorant this guy is in regards to what he believes about depression. He is taking a beating for this blog and rightfully so. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and struggles with this. Thanks for being open and making yourself available to those who need the help. We are here to allow you to vent. Don't forget the suicide hotline 1-800-273-8255 for those late night alone times. Hugs

[Guest Marty]

My sister, who has a degree in psychology, once told me I simply need to get over my depression.  I'm glad she isn't using that degree cause she'd make a lousy therapist...

[Storm]

I was taught in my psych classes that people who have mild cases of depression will simply return to normal over time if left untreated. People with more severe to clinical depression require much therapy and medication. Even then, its no guarantee that the symptoms will subside. Mental illness is a big monster and takes a lot to overcome.

Using christian analogies and thought processes is nothing more than a detriment to the people who are affected by it. 

[amateur]

I was taught in my psych classes that people who have mild cases of depression will simply return to normal over time if left untreated. People with more severe to clinical depression require much therapy and medication. Even then, its no guarantee that the symptoms will subside. Mental illness is a big monster and takes a lot to overcome.

Using christian analogies and thought processes is nothing more than a detriment to the people who are affected by it. 

This cannot be stated strongly enough.

[directionless]

I read the blog. I agree that people with suicidal tendencies usually have a distorted view of the facts so calling suicide a choice isn't usually accurate.

 

However, I agreed with some of what the blogger said. I think there is too much emphasis on medications.

 

I suspect there are many distinct problems that get lumped-together as "depression" and get the same treatments. The brain is complex and psychiatrists can only ask how you feel. So some people might actually find that praying or meditating or trying to be positive might lift them out of depression.

[Storm]

I read the blog. I agree that people with suicidal tendencies usually have a distorted view of the facts so calling suicide a choice isn't usually accurate.

 

However, I agreed with some of what the blogger said. I think there is too much emphasis on medications.

 

I suspect there are many distinct problems that get lumped-together as "depression" and get the same treatments. The brain is complex and psychiatrists can only ask how you feel. So some people might actually find that praying or meditating or trying to be positive might lift them out of depression.

I agree with you that he does make some valid points, but as a whole, I disagree with him and his assessment of Depression. I also agree that doing meditation and praying can be beneficial, but I would argue that people who are clinically depressed would likely receive little benefit from the practice and that medication and therapy are the most viable options.

 

I think the biggest thing that irked me about the blog is the whole Christian spin he puts on it. Christianity doesn't help depression. I believe that it exacerbates it. Christianity places unwarranted guilt on its constituents by way of pressuring them to be happy and content in all things and many believe that if you aren't happy or if you're depressed, then there must be something that you are doing wrong and that you need to get more intimate with god and get those sins out of your life. That's what makes it worse. christianity is a virus on top of the already actual physical issues with chemical deficiencies. Not a good mix if you ask me.

[Storm]

Here is a great and short video that explains depression and how it is more than just a chemical imbalance.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOK1tKFFIQI#t=196

[directionless]

Here is a great and short video that explains depression and how it is more than just a chemical imbalance.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOK1tKFFIQI#t=196

Thanks for the video. I was not aware of the shrinking hippocampus or that scientists know some of the genes involved. Hopefully they can begin to distinguish different types of depression and their causes. It would be nice if scientists could actually take objective measurements of our brain activity to diagnose and then monitor treatment progress - just like they would do with blood pressure or cholesterol medication.

[EternalEquinox]

Little late to the topic. whoops.
 

 

 

I read the blog. I agree that people with suicidal tendencies usually have a distorted view of the facts so calling suicide a choice isn't usually accurate.

However, I agreed with some of what the blogger said. I think there is too much emphasis on medications.

I suspect there are many distinct problems that get lumped-together as "depression" and get the same treatments. The brain is complex and psychiatrists can only ask how you feel. So some people might actually find that praying or meditating or trying to be positive might lift them out of depression.

I agree with you that he does make some valid points, but as a whole, I disagree with him and his assessment of Depression. I also agree that doing meditation and praying can be beneficial, but I would argue that people who are clinically depressed would likely receive little benefit from the practice and that medication and therapy are the most viable options.

 

I think the biggest thing that irked me about the blog is the whole Christian spin he puts on it. Christianity doesn't help depression. I believe that it exacerbates it. Christianity places unwarranted guilt on its constituents by way of pressuring them to be happy and content in all things and many believe that if you aren't happy or if you're depressed, then there must be something that you are doing wrong and that you need to get more intimate with god and get those sins out of your life. That's what makes it worse. christianity is a virus on top of the already actual physical issues with chemical deficiencies. Not a good mix if you ask me.

 

Anyway, I agree with you Storm. Christianity is definitely a big no go. 

 

I've suffered from depression and have had obsessive suicidal fantasies. Some not too long ago. I can't even bring myself to click the link. I'm so sick of the high and mighty attitude people have in general regarding mental illness.

I definitely know how horrible it can be, I'm in the same boat as you. Maybe I'm a little worse in that I have actually attempted to kill myself twice.   But, yeah, I won't be clicking that link anytime soon. 

[RipVanWinkle]

Marty: That belief of your sister is the biggest lie since Xtinity.  It's all too common. It's not only untrue; it's cruel.  bill

[wyson]

I quite enjoyed this video:

 

 

I did all of his 6 steps, having read various bits and pieces over the years as part of my cure from depression.  I have just never seen it presented specifically like this, all together before.

 

I've found the mental inner dialogue and the physical behavioural components to be mutually self reinforcing.  If I stop the depression alleviating behaviours and actions as detailed in the youtube video, I see my depression gradually coming back and my mental inner dialogue becoming less healthy.  If I allow myself to think negatively and don't consciously redirect negative thought patterns, then also the same.

 

Its a shame that these habits and behaviours / self management techniques aren't taught to people BEFORE they develop problems.  As soon as mental illness can be destigmatised, so mental health is talked about as openly and frequently as physical health the better.  It should be a part of the cultural dialogue, not something to be shut away, whispered about behind closed doors.  The vacuum of information this creates allows idiots like Matt Walsh to write the nonsense that he does.  No one would dare write prayer and church attendance and belief in the lord to be a cure for obesity or physical unfitness ahead of getting a personal trainer and hitting the gym / eating a good diet.  If you fall down and break your hip, and you require the help of a physiotherapist to get back on track, no one would dare argue you are turning your back on the lord and flirting with the devil.  Likewise, the same should apply for mental health.

[Lilith666]

This article is bullshit. He's saying that people who kill themselves don't care enough about people who love them. How incredibly myopic.

 

Every time I hear idiotic things like this in the name of the cult, I think, God, I hate their stupid religion. When I was younger, about eight or so, I saw people with depression as bad because my mother said depression is caused by not having faith in gawd. And of course I innately mistrusted non-Xians.