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Goodbye Jesus

The Big Question


ironhorse

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The Big Question

Does God exists?
This, I think, is the big question in life.

 

You may or may not agree with the answer I have accepted.

It is a question many have disagreed with and where the answer goes

takes many in different directions. 

If God does not exists then all I will ever experience and
Know will be contained in the few short years of my life and after my death I will be
no more.

So, if I go with the thought that God does not exists what is the origin of life?

Where did the universe come from? Where did life come from?

 

Last year on the radio I listened to a conversation between a theist (his name eludes me at the moment) and Lawrence Krauss. Krauss is an American theoretical physicist and cosmologist. The one hour interviewed focus on Krauss’ book A Universe from Nothing. In the final few minutes of the interview Krauss admitted that we really can’t pin it down definitely.  He joked it could have been aliens or a reasonable explanation might be a parallel universe.

 

I respected Krauss’ honesty to this big question.

The two following quotes I thought would be add more light on Krauss’ view.

“In his book, A Universe from Nothing: Why There is Something Rather than Nothing (2012), Krauss discusses the premise that something cannot come from nothing, which has often been used as an argument for the existence of an uncaused cause, or creator. He has since argued in a debate with John Ellis and Don Cupitt that the laws of physics allow for the universe to be created from nothing. "What would be the characteristics of a universe that was created from nothing, just with the laws of physics and without any supernatural shenanigans? The characteristics of the universe would be precisely those of the ones we live in."  In an interview with The Atlantic, however, he states that he has never claimed that "questions about origins are over." According to Krauss, "I don't ever claim to resolve that infinite regress of why-why-why-why-why; as far as I'm concerned it's turtles all the way down."
~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_M._Krauss

“String theory has led to some bizarre new scenarios for the origin of the universe. In one scenario, the Big Bang could have been triggered when our own universe collided with a "parallel universe" made of these extra dimensions. Scenarios like these are very speculative, because the string theory is still in development and remains untested, but they stimulate astronomers to look for new forms of evidence.”
~http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/seuforum/bb_whycare.htm

 

 

In my life, I have chosen to believe there is a God.

I can’t prove it. If I could I would have far more knowledge and insight than Lawrence Kruaus. Plus, I would be a very rich author from my first book I would write tentatively Concrete Proof God Exists.
The only thing I have close to proving God exists is the world and universe I see.

I came to believe the most reasonable explanation of God and what that means  the Christian message.

 

 

The heavens declare the glory of God;
    the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
    night after night they reveal knowledge.
They have no speech, they use no words;
    no sound is heard from them.
Yet their voice goes out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world.
~Psalm 19:1-4

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Do you understand that there's 1 very big leap from saying:

A god exists to just 1 solitary god exists

 

Do you understand that there's another very big leap from saying:

1 solitary god exists to 'it's the god of the bible'

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If you want to seriously ask whether or not God exists, you first need to clearly define what is meant by "God". Otherwise the question is meaningless.
 
Further, you err in your question when you state the following:
 

If God does not exists then all I will ever experience and
Know will be contained in the few short years of my life and after my death I will be
no more.
So, if I go with the thought that God does not exists what is the origin of life?
Where did the universe come from? Where did life come from?


It is not necessarily true that no God implies no afterlife, just as it is not necessarily true that if there is a God, there is also an afterlife. Moreover, you seem to be trying to establish that your God is the origin of life. Then in a breath you shift from this to the origin of the universe. These are non-equivalent roles. The origin of life need not be the same as the origin of the universe. This is why it is imperative that you first define what you mean by "God". Then, and only then, will you be equipped to present arguments and/or evidence that your "God" actually exists.

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The Big Question

Does God exists?

This, I think, is the big question in life.

 

Well, I didn't want to say anything, since whenever I do this people just won't leave me alone with questions and such, but...

 

It's me. I'm God.*

 

I made everything, including you, ironhorse.

 

Now I'm going to get barraged with prayer requests from everyone here, so it looks like it'll be a busy day for me, so I should get going. But I just wanted to clear that up for you, since you seemed concerned about it, and all.

 

*And this is just as plausible as your logical "proof" (or whatever the heck it is that you were attempting in your first post) of god.

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Ironhorse, do you agree that it's not simply a question of a creator's existence? Don't we really need to ask if a creator exists in a way that affects how we live our lives today?

 

I might decide that God exists in the deist fashion so that it really is only a minor curiosity at this point in time like studying dinosaur bones.

I might decide that God exists in some Christian fashion so that I need to do whatever.

I might decide that God exists in a Hindu fashion so that I need to do something else.

 

The reason we should ask if God's supposed existence matters today is because we can come closer to answering this question. We can examine claims for miracles, we can study character changes in religious people, etc.

 

In fact we can change the question to be: Does any religion help people, and if so why does it help people? (We can skip-over the question of God for now.)

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Kind of like asking, "Does Quetzalcoatl exist?" Not only is it not a "big question," it isn't even a question. YHWH was the imaginary construction of a deity figure by tribes in Israel, just as Quetzalcoatl was the imaginary construction of a deity by Mesoamerican tribes. 

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The Big Question

Does God exists?

This, I think, is the big question in life.

 

 

Of course Eminem exists.  Haven't you seen photos of him or listened to his music?

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well, ironhorse is evasive, not mentioning the christian god he believes created the world, because he knows it can open another can of worms,,,,,

 

he mentions the problem of the theories purported by some scientists,,,,,

 

my take is there is a creator created the universe with all its energy and is no more,,,,,, i have no proof but it is at least better than a outright lie about a talking snake and 7 days creation in the biblical god

 

come on ironhorse, just tell that your fucking god the biblical god created the universe and let us tear your ass apart and not hiding behind ambiguity,,,,

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The Big Question

Does God exists?

This, I think, is the big question in life.

 

Well, I didn't want to say anything, since whenever I do this people just won't leave me alone with questions and such, but...

 

It's me. I'm God.*

 

I made everything, including you, ironhorse.

 

Now I'm going to get barraged with prayer requests from everyone here, so it looks like it'll be a busy day for me, so I should get going. But I just wanted to clear that up for you, since you seemed concerned about it, and all.

 

*And this is just as plausible as your logical "proof" (or whatever the heck it is that you were attempting in your first post) of god.

 

Can you please use your omnipotence and omnibenevolence to make IH answer BAA's questions?

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The Big Question

Does God exists?

This, I think, is the big question in life.

 

It might be a good idea to define "God" before asking the question.

 

 

If God does not exists then all I will ever experience and

Know will be contained in the few short years of my life and after my death I will be

no more.

 

Yes, that would appear to be the case from the empirical evidence available.  But there may be something to you, as a unique individual, that survives death.  It is a possibility, remote as it may be.  Unless, of course, your definition of "God" (see above) includes the sole ability to extend your unique individual existence beyond death.

So, if I go with the thought that God does not exists what is the origin of life?

Where did the universe come from? Where did life come from?

Yes, assuming this God of yours does not exist in the first place, then such questions will arise.  Of course, your definition of "God" would need to include the sole abilities to create a universe and to create carbon based life.
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The Big Question

 

Has Ironhorse started this new thread up as a way of getting out of his promise to answer ALL the questions put to him?

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The Big Question

Does God exists?

This, I think, is the big question in life.

 

(Krauss and bible stuff removed to improve readability)

Is this the big question for you? Do you struggle with it? Do you have doubts?

 

 

You may or may not agree with the answer I have accepted.

It is a question many have disagreed with and where the answer goes

takes many in different directions. 

If God does not exists then all I will ever experience and

Know will be contained in the few short years of my life and after my death I will be

no more.

 

We all tend to be dead for a third of our 'life' anyway. We gladly surrender to the death of waking experience every night for 8 hours (well, more like 6  because my dogs wake me up at the crack of dawn). So I'm dead for a while every day. Why should I worry about being perma-dead? Christianity likes to attach fear to death because it is a selling point for Jesus. I have decided to reprogram my thinking regarding death. First, remove the fear. Death happens to everyone. At the moment I dont particularly care about an afterlife but I have one set up in my head just in case. It isnt a Christian-based afterlife so there's no fear involved. My afterlife system has no hell, nor judgment, though it might be a private club. :-)

 

So, if I go with the thought that God does not exists what is the origin of life?

Where did the universe come from? Where did life come from?

 

The question is irrelevant to me. It's nice that theologians and scientists are researching the question but I doubt any answer would affect me much.

 

The only thing I have close to proving God exists is the world and universe I see.

 

As a Christian one must constantly obsess about Jesus/God/Holy Spirit. One point of obsession then is to attribute everything in existence to God. From a logical point of view, "Here's the universe. It's big and wondrous, therefore God must have created it" is non-sequitur. Why does something 'fascinating' have to have 'God musta done that' attached to it? "Wow , look at the Grand Canyon! God is the ultimate architect!  Wow, look at the heads on Mount Rushmore, God is the ultimate....oh wait, men sculpted that."

 

I came to believe the most reasonable explanation of God and what that means  the Christian message.

 

To each his own. I'm glad for you. But I don't really need an explanation. I can enjoy the universe without attaching God to it. Have you ever just enjoyed wondering  about something for the sake of wondering? Not having an answer to wondrous things is half the fun of being alive!

 

(Any questions I have asked in this post are just for your consideration. I'm not looking for you to post answers to them.)

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Does the God of the Bible exist? Why, no. No he doesn't. I'm glad we cleared that up.

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In my life, I have chosen to believe there is a God.

I would argue that this statement is not entirely accurate.

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In my life, I have chosen to believe there is a God.

I would argue that this statement is not entirely accurate.

 

Maybe I'm being dense, but that seems very cryptic to me.

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In my life, I have chosen to believe there is a God.

I would argue that this statement is not entirely accurate.

 

Maybe I'm being dense, but that seems very cryptic to me.

 

I think Prof means belief is not a choice, and possibly also that childhood indoctrination is a big factor.

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Kind of like asking, "Does Quetzalcoatl exist?" Not only is it not a "big question," it isn't even a question. YHWH was the imaginary construction of a deity figure by tribes in Israel, just as Quetzalcoatl was the imaginary construction of a deity by Mesoamerican tribes. 

 

I would like a shirt, "What would Quetzalcoatl do" just cuz it's a fun word to say. :-)

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In my life, I have chosen to believe there is a God.

I would argue that this statement is not entirely accurate.

 

Maybe I'm being dense, but that seems very cryptic to me.

 

I think Prof means belief is not a choice, and possibly also that childhood indoctrination is a big factor.

 

O.k. I agree that childhood indoctrination is a very big factor. smile.png

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In my life, I have chosen to believe there is a God.

I would argue that this statement is not entirely accurate.

 

Maybe I'm being dense, but that seems very cryptic to me.

 

I think Prof means belief is not a choice, and possibly also that childhood indoctrination is a big factor.

 

O.k. I agree that childhood indoctrination is a very big factor. smile.png

 

 

Yeah, why didn't Ironhorse "choose" to believe in Zeus, or Odin,  or Ra,  or Bender?

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The Big Question

Does God exists?

This, I think, is the big question in life.

I don't think there is one big question in life, there are many, and I don't see why the existence of any god or the god of the bible would be the biggest question.  If a person experienced xian childhood indoctrination they may well see this as "the big question" though.

 

If God does not exists then all I will ever experience and

Know will be contained in the few short years of my life and after my death I will be

no more.

Fear of not existing after death is one of the reasons humans invented afterlife concepts.  It is not, however, an insurmountable fear.  Many of us are relaxed about the prospect and enjoy each day we have, making the most out of life.

 

In my life, I have chosen to believe there is a God.

...I came to believe the most reasonable explanation of God and what that means  the Christian message.

It is no surprise that you came to believe this after being raised by xians, including your Baptist pastor father.  Belief is not a choice.  But a person can choose to examine their beliefs using logic and reason, and can choose to only believe in things that are supported by evidence.  It's interesting how often a person will go through this process and arrive at the conclusion that not existing after death is not something to be feared.

 

 

 

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The Big Question

Does God exists?

This, I think, is the big question in life.

I think the bigger question is "what should I do with my life, the only life I have?" Let's not spoil it or waste it. Let's make it something useful, God or no-God.
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The next Big Question.

 

Which is more important to Ironhorse: making good on his promises to answer ALL the questions put to him or making another Sunday Dispatch tomorrow?

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Here's the Big Question as far as I'm concerned:  So what?  

 

If definitive evidence of the existence of a god were suddenly produced tomorrow, would it change my daily commute?  Would my salary increase?  Would my tap water suddenly be turned into whiskey?  Would I suddenly be compelled to shop for clothes at Dillards instead of Goodwill?  Would it alter my diet, or the volume of ethanol I consume?

 

How exactly would the daily minutiae of my life be transformed by proof of god's existence?  Given that "god" has contributed nothing to the mundane aspects of my personal existence, how would my life be any different because I suddenly had the evidence that he really is there?  

 

Or would god suddenly start actually doing something once his existence had been proved and he could no longer hide behind the delusion of "faith"?

 

Really, what difference does the existence or non-existence of god make?

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If God does not exists then all I will ever experience and

Know will be contained in the few short years of my life and after my death I will be

no more.

So, if I go with the thought that God does not exists what is the origin of life?

Where did the universe come from? Where did life come from?

 [snip]

 

The two following quotes I thought would be add more light on Krauss’ view.

“In his book, A Universe from Nothing: Why There is Something Rather than Nothing (2012), Krauss discusses the premise that something cannot come from nothing, which has often been used as an argument for the existence of an uncaused cause, or creator. He has since argued in a debate with John Ellis and Don Cupitt that the laws of physics allow for the universe to be created from nothing. "What would be the characteristics of a universe that was created from nothing, just with the laws of physics and without any supernatural shenanigans? The characteristics of the universe would be precisely those of the ones we live in."  In an interview with The Atlantic, however, he states that he has never claimed that "questions about origins are over." According to Krauss, "I don't ever claim to resolve that infinite regress of why-why-why-why-why; as far as I'm concerned it's turtles all the way down."

snip

 

In my life, I have chosen to believe there is a God.

I can’t prove it. If I could I would have far more knowledge and insight than Lawrence Kruaus. Plus, I would be a very rich author from my first book I would write tentatively Concrete Proof God Exists.

The only thing I have close to proving God exists is the world and universe I see.

I came to believe the most reasonable explanation of God and what that means  the Christian message.

Thanks for the stuff about Lawrence Krauss - interesting.

 

I would have patience with the above post, from which I've snipped some stuff, if it were your first, Ironhorse. After all that's been said at this point, I only conclude that the above is largely a waste. It is another of your faith affirmations. It doesn't advance the ball further downfield.

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The Big Question

Does God exists?

This, I think, is the big question in life.

 

This is the kind of nonsense I used to worry about when I was a whiny-assed pre-teen. Now that I've done my research and found no reason to believe in such a thing, I'm much happier getting on with my one and only life.

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