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Goodbye Jesus

At The End Of My Rope


crazyguy123

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Multiple times now, I've posted on these forums about silently going to church and enduring the worship and the sermons every Sunday to avoid the truth of my deconversion surfacing and causing religious loved ones emotional pain. It's like the threads about this topic keep repeating. Those who've seen the last one, "It Sucks Being In The Closet" may remember it. For those who are unfamiliar with it, you can find it here: http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/61043-it-sucks-being-in-the-closet/#.U_DFCGOLVCo

 

Today, I went again, just like all of the other Sundays. The last few weeks, before each sermon, one of the adults that works with the kids has been inviting them up to the front of the sanctuary for a 5 minute "lesson" (more like brainwashing session if you ask me). Today's brainwashing session for the kids triggered something in me that made me want to explode with rage.

 

Today's particular topic was about the parable of the workers in the vineyard. For anyone that is unfamiliar with this parable, here it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Workers_in_the_Vineyard

 

At the end of the brainwashing session, those kids were told that, even though it's not fair for Jesus to let believers into Heaven, regardless of how long they've been believers, if he gave us what was fair, he'd let none of us into Heaven because "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god". After seeing those kids being spoon-fed that horseshit without questioning what they were told (obviously they were taught not to question this stuff), I just had to get out of there. I made up some bullshit about not feeling well and got the fuck out of dodge. I feel like I can't go back there anymore; like I'm at the end of my rope.

 

 

I've received lots of advice in the past, everything from just coming forward about my deconversion, to simply switching churches and then quit attending afterwards. I've thought many times about simply switching churches and attending for a short while before I stop going completely, but honestly, but I don't know how to come up with a convincing, bullshit reason for why I switched in the first place.

 

Now, I am thinking more than ever that the best advice I received was the one that I rejected the fastest. That advice would be to reveal my deconversion in a way that causes the least amount of harm. As long as I keep hiding who I am and what I believe to protect people who are trapped in the cult, then my honesty, integrity, and my honor are being thrown under the bus.

 

I can't keep up this facade anymore. I can't keep hurting myself anymore. I must find a way that causes the least amount of harm to come forward about my deconversion. It's no longer an option, but it is the only option. Unfortunately, I don't even know what the best way to do this would be. There has got to be a way.

 

Sdelsolray, I appreciate the advice that you gave me way back then. To begin with, I didn't even consider going with it, as it seemed to be the worst possible thing I could do, but now I'm sure that it is not.

 

I apologize for bringing up this topic again, but keeping all of this to myself is causing me more harm than I could possibly experience by revealing my deconversion.

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We understand, crazyguy.  Many of us have been there.  It's a difficult conversation to have.  Look back over what others have said or written.  Write out your thoughts.  Consider whether you are more comfortable with a letter or a conversation.  Consider also simply stating that you don't wish to attend anymore and that you aren't ready to talk about it.  You are free to take it fast or slow.  Write down your needs and goals, just for yourself and then sleep on it.

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I can't really tell you what to do; but I can tell you what I did.  I came out as soon as I was certain I no longer believed.  I thought about the consequences, as have you; but decided I'd rather live with the consequences and my integrity than live with neither.  It worked for me in my situation.

 

You may also consider that coming out could do more good than harm, or at least enough good to counteract the harm.  Others in you circle might be doubting/questioning as well, but may not feel like they have the strength or courage to face the truth.  Revealing your position may give them the boost they need.

 

The one thing that you can be certain of, though, is that so long a nothing changes, nothing changes.

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Nothing to apologize for, crazyguy.  Do what you have to do.

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I think you've made an important realization about yourself and your particular situation. Often times we slowly kill ourselves when we hide these important parts of our selves.

 

As far as the least harmful way to tell people, the most important thing is probably just to not be a dick about it. Also, don't try to deconvert them by presenting a case, because that sets you up for an antagonistic relationship. They will try to argue back with you, and will be hurt and offended when you argue back. Try to simply own your own experience instead of making them experience it too. This means saying things like, "I can't believe this anymore because..." instead of saying things like "How can you believe this when..." When they inevitably try to re-convert you by presenting "evidence," you can simply say, "That sounds like it's enough for you. It's not enough for me. If you want to know why, I'll tell you, but I don't want to turn this into an argument. I just want you to know where I'm at."

 

They will probably want to know what your change in beliefs means in very practical terms. Are you going to keep going to church? What will you do at mealtime prayers? I don't know if you're married, but if you are, a common question in these situations seems to be, "Are you having an affair?" As if the only thing keeping people from having affairs is their religious beliefs. Anyways, be prepared to answer these questions, and be prepared to say "I don't know, I haven't figured that part out yet" if that's the real answer to some of these questions.

 

All this being said, you can do everything right and you will still have some people who are hurt/offended by your change of beliefs. It's hard for them because they will think you're going to hell, or they might have preconceived ideas about what atheists are like, etc. When you are simply trying to be honest with people about who you are, their feelings about that are not your responsibility. They will either learn to accept you, or they won't, but that says way more about them than it does about you.

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I think you did the right thing making an excuse and getting out of there today.  That was well handled.  I could not have sat there while they fed that shit to children.   And I totally get how you feel about not going back, I remember the day I reached that point too.

 

There's excellent advice above.  I wish you all the best with this part of your journey.  

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I feel for you crazyguy.  When I came out to my wife earlier this year, I told her that would I continue to go to church with her.  We switched churches which worked well for me because I can be anonymous at the new church.  I used to serve communion and take up the offering at the old church as well as serve on a committee.  At the new church, no one has any expectations of me so I can be whatever I want to be.

 

At the new church if someone asked, I would tell them the truth: "I am an unbeliever and am just here to support my wife".  I think your situation is different but maybe something like that could be helpful for you too.

 

When I first realized I no longer believed, I planned to tell my wife and kids but not my parents.  I didn't want to tell my parents for the same reason I believe you don't want to tell your grandparents; I didn't want them to be sad that I was going to hell.  As time has passed, I realize that I can't live with not telling my parents.  I do not want to fake it for my own well being and for the example it sets for my kids.  The next time I am with them and church or religion comes up, I am going to tell them.  I intend to tell them as gently as possible while being completely honest.  "I read the bible from start to finish to get closer to god and in doing so found many questions that I was unable to find satisfying answers.  It has been a long process but those doubts eventually lead to unbelief."

 

Good luck to you in whatever you decide.  We will be here for you.

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And there we have it ,  I love the way that every pastor is able to sum it up 'All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God'

 

The problem here is that although this is true (According to Theology) What else is a person to do and to what standard is God so high that he is openly condemning his people.

 

Easiest way to leave Church is to blame it on the Holy Ghost e.g. 'He told me so' no Christian dare argue with that.

 

With regards to @TrueFreedom I would seriously question weather writing a letter to Church is the right way as he will be hounded by Church Christites wanting to get him back into the fold to continue the delusion.

 

If he writes them a letter then they will have a chance to run it through the Apologetic machine and give him a fearful response.
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Greetings,

I read a blog at Patheos / Atheist Channel / Godless in Dixie ,which has helped me to understand the believers I left behind.  It explores how believers put more value to what you believe more than your character.  It may give you some insight when you reveal your lack of belief to those around  you.  Your character has not, will not change just because you don't believe what other do.  That is what I told my wife when I came out of the closet.   I wish you well.

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godlessindixie/2014/08/10/character-vs-belief/

 

 

 

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crazyguy123,

 

It seems it's time for you to take a further step. I don't know how invested you are in your congregation. If you have family who attend there, you may want to tell them. Do you feel you need to tell the church leadership? Do you have any life situations that will be impacted significantly by your coming out as an unbeliever? If you don't journal now, maybe it would help to write down your thoughts. Maybe that will help you sort out your next step.

 

Good luck.

 

Human

 

I could try writing it out and finding out the best way to say this. It might help.

 

The way things are now, there is no need to tell the church leadership and my life situation is not likely to be impacted significantly by coming out as an unbeliever. Really, all I am concerned about are religious family members.

 

If I were able to come out to them, there would be no need to go back to church, but really, I don't know what will happen if I came out about my deconversion. The only way to find out would be to just do it.

 

I suppose I could start off by taking baby steps. I have an older brother who is a believer and the only contact I have with him is through email. I don't think he is a fundy, so it might not be that bad, but telling him would be a start. At least then I could get somewhat of an idea of what to expect later on by coming out.

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To come out or not is always a difficult decision.

 

I can only speak for myself. I took quite a bit of time before I shared my deconversion with anyone other than my wife (who, fortunately for me, was only nominally a Christian). I was perfectly aware of what it would mean to my parents, my siblings, my friends and everyone else that I no longer believed. I struggled for quite a while with the question of whether or not it would be beneficial for anyone if I revealed my apostasy. Eventually, I came to the point where I felt I could no longer refrain. I determined to reveal the truth. It was the most difficult conversation of my life. I prepared for months. People were hurt. There were tears. There were (and still are) emails, blog posts and letters expressing pain, sorrow, grief and despair. My relationship with my parents and other family members has changed irrevocably. I have lost friends. In spite of all of this, however, I don't regret my decision.

 

At first, I struggled with guilt. After all, from everybody else's perspective, I had told them that I was destined to spend eternity in hell. This is horrible news. It took me longer than I care to admit to fully recognize that this is their belief. I refuse to be held responsible for it. Nevertheless, the belief remains, and there are still days when I feel residual tendrils of guilt. There is now a wall between me and most my family that will probably never go away.

 

The fact is that only you can know whether or not you need to come out. If you do, there will be pain, but there will also be freedom. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Do what you need to do. At the end of the day, we all need to be able to live with ourselves. The ability to look in the mirror and not feel ashamed is more important than what anyone else thinks. But again, I'm only speaking for myself.

 

Peace.

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crazyguy123,

Would your brother keep it between the two of you, if you asked him to? Or do you think he might tell other family members? Writing it out first would be good. You could try to anticipate some possible reactions your brother might have. Do you have any trusted friends or acquaintances you could talk it out with first, sort of in role play? You could even try that on here. I'd be glad to help you with that. We could meet up in chat and do it there. Have you read some of the testimonials to see how other people dealt with coming out to family members? Yes, baby steps would be wise.

 

Good luck.

 

Human

 

 

 

If I asked my brother to keep this to himself, I imagine that he would. He doesn't appear to be an extreme fundy, certainly not like I was when I believed. I'm not sure who he would tell, though, since he isn't acquainted with anyone that I currently attend church with (as far as I know). The only trouble I have now is that I don't know what to say about this.

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I've got the message that I want to send to my older brother typed up, but haven't sent the message yet. I first typed up what I wanted to say on a Word Document, but have shortened it some.

 

 

This is the message that I am about to send:

 

"A while back, you sent me a message where you said something about how we had Jesus in common. I didn't say anything then, because I didn't know how to say it, but we don't actually have Jesus in common. Not anymore.

It's been three years since I was a Christian, but I've been keeping it a secret ever since, to avoid loved ones that still believe from finding out. I didn't want anyone to worry about me going to Hell.

The only reason I am saying this now is because I can't keep hiding it anymore. If I go on like this, pretending to believe in something that I don't, it's going to drive me insane. I need to find a way to get the truth out so that I don't have to pretend to be someone I'm not. I hope you can understand."

 

 

I don't know if I have the courage to send the message or not, but this is the closest I have been to being out of the closet about my deconversion. I've told my nonreligious friends and family, sure, but there was never any need to pretend when I was around them, but if I don't go onto the next step, then nothing will change. I just hope that I'm doing the right thing by doing this.

 

UPDATE

 

Well, I just sent the message. I don't know what will happen now, so the best I can do is wait and see. I hope it goes well.

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Remember that you can tell them "I don't want to talk about this anymore" if they get too apologetic on you.

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I'll be sure to keep that in mind MM.

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UPDATE

 

Well, I just sent the message. I don't know what will happen now, so the best I can do is wait and see. I hope it goes well.

Good move.  It's important to value your own honesty and integrity.  I understand your concern about how others might react.  They are responsible for their own conduct, not you.

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clap.gifyellow.gif You sent the message? That's awesommmmme! Yes, people may be taken aback, but so proud of you being true to you!

 

I could burst from enthusiasm right now!!!

 

People will have a tough time accepting your decision, try to talk you out of it, think it's just a phase, etc...but, just stay the course. Proud of you for your bravery!!

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Good for you!  The ball is in his court.  I hope he plays nicely!   

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“A man who procrastinates in his choosing will inevitably have his choice made for him by circumstance.”  - Hunter S. Thompson

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I received a response from my brother. It doesn't matter to him what I believe in or don't believe in. He says that he's in a similar situation. I'm guessing that he's one of the more Liberal Christian types who probably rejects a lot of the nonsense that's in the Bible, though I'm not certain. He's definitely not a fundy like I was, that much is obvious.

 

Now, the next step is figuring out who to come out to next. As much as I want to come out to my grandparents, who are the main reason that I go to church anyway, I don't know if I can do it or not. If only I could just come up with the right thing to say.

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I received a response from my brother. It doesn't matter to him what I believe in or don't believe in. He says that he's in a similar situation. I'm guessing that he's one of the more Liberal Christian types who probably rejects a lot of the nonsense that's in the Bible, though I'm not certain. He's definitely not a fundy like I was, that much is obvious.

 

Now, the next step is figuring out who to come out to next. As much as I want to come out to my grandparents, who are the main reason that I go to church anyway, I don't know if I can do it or not. If only I could just come up with the right thing to say.

Perhaps you could compare notes with your brother.  You could likely find that he has also found his rational thinking self and has come to the same conclusions that you have, more or less.  If so, both of you could approach the remainder of your family.

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Perhaps you could compare notes with your brother.  You could likely find that he has also found his rational thinking self and has come to the same conclusions that you have, more or less.  If so, both of you could approach the remainder of your family.

 

 

That sounds like a good idea. Thanks for the suggestion.

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I'm so glad to hear of your brother's response.   Now the two of you can join forces.  If you can't (or chose not to) approach other family members with your "good news" at least you and your brother can commiserate together over your brainwashed relatives.   It's good to know you have each other!

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I'm happy for you CG!  Glad your brother responded well.

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You know, if I were to decide to go down this road myself, I think I'd probably want to avoid having tor repeat myself constantly.  I'd choose to "come out" to someone who I know would be unable to resist gossiping.  They could then do the work for me.

 

Matter for you of course - I don't have sensitive grandparents to worry about.

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