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Ironhorse Not Answered Your Questions? Put Them Here For All To See.


bornagainathiest

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Ok folks,

 

It occurred to me that Ironhorse might need a little bit of help keeping tabs on all the unanswered questions he promised to reply to and also the ones he didn't promise to answer... but should.  So, if you'd like to contribute to this archive, please do so.  By doing this you're helping him keep track of things and you're helping to keep him honest.  

 

It wouldn't be fair to keep adding new questions to this list, so if you've got any outstanding questions he hasn't replied to before today (Aug 17) please feel free to put them here.  Thanks, BAA.

 

I'll start thing off.  

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You attend a local Baptist church.

1.So, do you question everything you hear and read there - as a true skeptic would?

2.Or do you simply accept what you see and hear by faith, without questioning it?

 

You agree with the position of the priesthood of the believer.

3.Have you questioned everything about this - as a true skeptic would?

4.Or do you simply accept everything about this by faith, without questioning it?

 

You also agree with the other historic Baptist positions on the major doctrines of the faith.

5.Have you questioned everything about this - as a true skeptic would?

6.Or do you simply accept everything about this by faith, without questioning it?

 

You also agree with the historic Baptist positions on the minor doctrines of the faith.

7.Have you questioned everything about this - as a true skeptic would?

8.Or do you simply accept everything about this by faith, without questioning it?

 

You quoted Galatians 3 : 28

9.Have you questioned the validity of this verse - as a true skeptic would?

10.Or do you just accept the whole Bible as true (by faith), without questioning it?

 

You mention the three preaching daughters of Philip, in Acts 21 : 9

"He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied."

 

11.Have you questioned your recall of this Bible verse before citing it - as a true skeptic would have?

12.Before mistaking three daughters for four and before mistaking prophesying for preaching?

13.Or do you just have faith that your memory of scripture is AOK?

 

14.  Answer this question truthfully. Did you get to see Jesus' wounds in his hands and in his side before BEFORE you believed?

 

No 

 

Then how was your decision to believe in the resurrected Jesus a skeptical, evidence-based one?  As was Thomas' in John 20 : 24 - 29?

15.  Did the Corinthians, the Romans, the Galatians or any of the believers in Jerusalem and Israel ever do what Thomas did and see the evidence of Jesus' resurrection BEFORE they believed?

 

I really can't answer because I don't know the individual people and their experiences.

 

According to your Christian Baptist doctrine, after he ascended into heaven, did Jesus present the wounds in his hands, feet and side to any of the listed people (except Paul) BEFORE they believed in him?  Y / N ?

 

16.  Did Damaris, at the Areopagus?

 

I don't know.

 

According to your Christian Baptist doctrine, after he ascended into heaven, did Jesus present the wounds in his hands, feet and side to Damaris BEFORE she believed in him?  Y / N ?

17.  Did Paul and Barnabus' jailer?

 

Paul did record seeing Jesus in a vision.  

 

The jailer I guess not.

 

So did the jailer make the same kind of skeptical, evidence-based decision to believe in the resurrected Jesus as Thomas did - on the basis of seeing Christ's injuries?  As described in John 20 : 24 -29?  Y / N ?

18.  Did anyone?

 

Again I can't really answer.

 

According to your Christian Baptist doctrine, after he ascended into heaven, did Jesus present the wounds in his hands, feet and side to anyone (except Paul) BEFORE they believed in him?  Y / N ?

 

19.  You see how this works?  (Meaning, the default position for ALL skeptics is non-belief, not belief.)

 

No, as I have said this before that one cannot say that ALL SKEPTICS will come to a conclusion of non-belief.

 

Non-belief is NOT the conclusion that skeptics end up with - it's their starting point - before they examine the evidence.  

They then draw a conclusion, based upon what that evidence.  Just as Thomas did in John 20 : 24 -29.  

Do you see how this works, Ironhorse?

 

Please answer truthfully.

 

19a. So you agree that all of the people mentioned in # 2 were not skeptics?

 

I don't know.

 

According to your Baptist doctrine of Jesus' ascension, did Jesus offer anyone other than the apostles Thomas and Paul the chance of examining his wounds for themselves and making a skeptical, evidence-based decision, when it came to putting their faith in him?

 

19b. So you agree that you were not a skeptic when you came to believe in Jesus?

 

When i came to accept Christ, I will agree I was no longer a skeptic but

I reached that point after approximately ten years of reading and studying

with the eyes of a skeptic.

 

How can you be a skeptic about Jesus when you first accepted him by faith?

The starting position for all skeptics is non-belief, not belief.  It's not the end position, conclusion or even an interim stage.  Please answer the question truthfully, Ironhorse.

 

How can you be a skeptic about Jesus when you first accepted him by faith?

20.  Do you see what the Antonym (opposite of) skepticism is?

 

Belief

 

How can you have faith in Jesus AND be also be a skeptic about him at the same time, when faith and skepticism are contradictions of each other?

 

21.  And since you believed in Christ without seeing any physical evidence of his resurrection for yourself, was your decision to accept him as your savior and lord... a skeptical one?

 

See my answer to 19b

 

Were you a skeptic, as per the apostle Thomas, as described in John 20 : 24 - 29, on the day you believed in Jesus by faith?  Y / N ?

 

22.  You were encouraged by your parents to question everything.
So were you practicing this (skepticism) when you believed without seeing that Jesus was raised form the dead?

 

As I have said many times before, I have an attitude of questioning. Yes. my parents encouraged me.

Again see 6b

 

How can you have a skeptical, evidence-based attitude of questioning (as per Thomas, in John 20 : 24 - 29) about everything if you believe in Jesus by faith?  

 

23. So what kind of skeptical thinking were you doing when you believed (blindly) that Jesus was raised from the dead?

 

Again 19b

 

Were you thinking skeptically and making an evidence-based decision, as per the apostle Thomas, as described in John 20 : 24 -29, on the day you came to believe in Jesus by faith?  Y / N ?

24. So you didn't follow Thomas' process of skeptical thinking when you cam to believe that Jesus was raised from the dead?

 

I don't know all the processes Thomas used.

 

I didn't ask you about ALL the processes Thomas used.

I asked you ONLY about John 20 : 24 - 29.  Now please answer the question truthfully, referring only to Thomas' process of skeptical thinking, as described in John 20 : 24 -29.  Please answer Yes or No.  

 

25.  You're driven to find out the truth.
Except for when you choose to blindly believe the untestable 'truth' of the Bible regarding Jesus' resurrection?

 

Jesus spoke in a prayer about those who will believe but never saw. I am one of them.

 

Then how was your decision to believe a skeptical, evidence-based one, as per Thomas' example in John 20 : 24 - 29?

26.  Quite sure you're a skeptic?

 

I'm no longer a skeptic concerning the Christian faith. 

 

Then how can you honestly and truthfully say that you question everything, as your parents taught you to do?

.

 

 

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TheRedneckProfessor, on 11 Aug 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:snapback.png

Ironhorse, I know you typically either ignore or dodge the questions I pose to you, but I really want you to answer these, if you would.

 

Have you ever been to Auschwitz? 

 

Have you ever seen the crematoria up close?  Or been inside the gas chamber? 

 

Have you walked under the archway that says "ARBEIT MACHT FREI"?  Or through the gate of doom at Auschwitz II (Birkenau)?  Have you seen the inside of a typical barrack? 

 

Have you ever watched as a crowd of Jewish school children learned of the fates of many of their own relatives while looking at the barbed-wire?

 

Have you ever seen the inside of the hospital ward in Auschwitz, where painful medical experiments were conducted on human beings as though they were lab rats?  Have you ever seen the main gallows, or the death wall, where innocent people were shot in cold blood?

 

Have you seen the empty cannisters of Zyklon B on display?  Or the prayer cloths?  Or the piles of shoes, eyeglasses, suitcases, teeth--each of which represents the life stolen from a real, breathing, fearful human being? 

 

Has your heart ever shattered as your eye fell upon a shoe that would have fit your own child, realizing that some other father, just like yourself, bought that shoe for his child, just as you had so often done?

 

I have seen and done all of these things and I can and will answer your "query".

 

"In Auschwitz, where was god?"  god was not in Auschwitz.  god has never been anywhere near Auschwitz. 

 

"Where was man?"  Man was in Auschwitz.  Man created Auschwitz and Man destroyed in Auschwitz.  Ultimately, Man liberated Auschwitz.  Yes, Man has incredible potential, both for evil and for good. 

 

But god, simply watches and allows the sun to shine upon both the righteous and the wicked.

 

Worship him if you will; but until he proves himself worthy of it, I will not.

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I have asked IH several times for positive reasons why we should believe in Christ/Christianity. So far IH has mainly stated that he believes, that there are things he doesn't understand, and that a given doctrine or passage can be construed in such a way that it might not be false. Those aren't positive reasons FOR anyone else to make the same faith commitment.

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I have asked several times for evidence of his knowledge of other faith systems… I got some copy and paste replies, but nothing substantial. I would call it a non-answer. If one has investigated other faiths to the point of rejecting them on their individual merits then one should be able to discuss those merits… in juxtaposition to christianity.

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I'd like a more satisfactory answer to my questions from the women in ministry thread. He did put some words together and shove them in my direction, but it was not really answering what I asked.

 

However, I'd much rather let that slide in favor of some in depth answers to the above posters' questions.

 

And I mean answers, where some thought and consideration is given and the question is addressed. I don't mean responses, where there are a few links and an 'I believe'.

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Wow, does everyone really care so much about the opinions of one Christian guy here? Granted I'm new to the forum but it seems that you're building a pedestal for him which, being a Christian, is I'm sure exactly what he wants.

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Not exactly… it's more of an exercise in all the non-answers we've always gotten from christianity. They come here as ambassadors, especially in the Den. We ask of them what we ask of anyone… put your money where your mouth is.

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Wow, does everyone really care so much about the opinions of one Christian guy here? Granted I'm new to the forum but it seems that you're building a pedestal for him which, being a Christian, is I'm sure exactly what he wants.

 

 

Elevating the target as we prepare neat rows of spoiled tomatoes and rotten eggs.

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Lol okay, I'll let you do your thing, forget I commented. :)

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Wow, does everyone really care so much about the opinions of one Christian guy here? Granted I'm new to the forum but it seems that you're building a pedestal for him which, being a Christian, is I'm sure exactly what he wants.

Elevating isn't the right word.  We're just lifting him up so that the lurkers can get a better look at him.

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I have asked IH several times for positive reasons why we should believe in Christ/Christianity. So far IH has mainly stated that he believes, that there are things he doesn't understand, and that a given doctrine or passage can be construed in such a way that it might not be false. Those aren't positive reasons FOR anyone else to make the same faith commitment.

I'm particularly curious about this question too. (If I understand correctly.) IH never gives any testimonials. I want to hear how being a Christian made his life better, made him a better person, or whatever.

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 03:04 PM

Ironhorse,

 

27. Do you agree that the cause of science is attributable only to the skills of observation, analysis and logical deduction?

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Posted Today, 08:20 AM

ironhorse, on 17 Aug 2014 - 9:21 PM, said:snapback.png

 

Human, on 17 Aug 2014 - 3:23 PM, said:snapback.png

It seems the passage in Matthew is about Jesus emphasizing the controversy and fallout over acceptance or rejection of him as messiah. The preceding verses (vv. 32 - 33) are about confessing him as messiah. A similar passage is in Luke 12:8. But it does seem that sometimes Jesus and Yahweh were not on the same page (figuratively).

Matthew 10

32"Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

 

I agree Human.

 

 

Human stated that:

 

Quote

 

But it does seem that sometimes Jesus and Yahweh were not on the same page (figuratively).

 

To which Ironhorse responded:

 

Quote

 

I agree Human.

 

Do you, Ironhorse, believe that jesus and the father are one? 

 

A simple "yes" or "no" will suffice. DO NOT dodge this question or attempt to back-peddle your way out of it.  Lurkers are watching.

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Omnia Mea Mecum Porto

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A recasting of a question...

 

IH, you claim Christianity helped give rise to the modern scientific area. True enough, many scientists of the early modern scientific era were Christians. But this is purely incidental. They built upon older Muslim scientific and mathematical understandings who built upon the Ancient Greek and eastern scientific and philosophical understandings. Why are you trying to validate Christianity by saying Christians advanced science but refuse to validate Islam and Ancient Greek paganism by the fact that there were great scientists among them? There have been great scientific minds in almost every major world civilization. Many discoveries of the ealry modern Christian scientists were actually rediscoveries of what the ancients discovered, heliocentric theory for example. Curiosity, inquiry, and patern recognition are the primal ingredients of science. They are universal human traits, not Christian traits.

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Wow

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Wow, does everyone really care so much about the opinions of one Christian guy here? Granted I'm new to the forum but it seems that you're building a pedestal for him which, being a Christian, is I'm sure exactly what he wants.

 

I have always wondered the same thing in my time here but I figure so few people who will actually go to the length he does are on this forum.

 

he brings an element that is needed in some ways in that his absurd behavior helps give a baseline for a certain type of christian that most people here are probably trying to escape in some way.

 

To me it helps reinforce the reason most of the people here left the christian faith. I at least hope it does. I was lucky not to have my life go the way some members here have had to suffer and I am glad they have someone to view as a reason not to go back to the lie they were living.

 

It is also good practice at dealing with stubborn people who seem to dismis reason at every turn in favor of delusion. I would not be surprised at all to learn he is a fat liar and never believed in any god in the first place and is just playing a game on the internet to satisfy his morbid desire.

 

are you a secret atheist Iron?

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Wow

 

Very descriptive, please tell us more.

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Wow. Just wow. (Description added)

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Wow. Just wow. (Description added)

 

That's helpful. Thanks.

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Lol let me explain I posted a topic just like this mine got ignored hut This OP gets recognized. I created a topic willing to answer questions that Atheist felt other Christians ignored and I was told I was selfish that no one needed any questions to be answered or even mocked. Special treatment brigade in the.house

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Please honor your promise and answer ALL the questions, Ironhorse.

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Lol let me explain I posted a topic just like this mine got ignored hut This OP gets recognized. I created a topic willing to answer questions that Atheist felt other Christians ignored and I was told I was selfish that no one needed any questions to be answered or even mocked. Special treatment brigade in the.house

 

Could you link it? I don't normally bother with the question answer game in those threads but I cannot find it searching at the moment, I do seem to always have issues finding stuff with the search on this site.

 

You are in teh wrong place if you don't think that you are going to get mocked now and again in what you believe. I have been flat out called a moron and joke (yes literally those words) by christians in the past when they found I respectfully disagreed with them and asked them to let me be. Can't say I am the person normally returning that sentiment but if the statements are absurd expect absurd responses in general.

 

Maybe try starting another topic and name it

 

"the questions IronHorse won't answer, let me instead!"

 

or something like that. I think partly to he makes a very large target of himself on purpose and you don't seem to like that. If you want to be the bullseye you got paint a red mark on your face.

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Lol let me explain I posted a topic just like this mine got ignored hut This OP gets recognized. I created a topic willing to answer questions that Atheist felt other Christians ignored and I was told I was selfish that no one needed any questions to be answered or even mocked. Special treatment brigade in the.house

 

IH has a history of not answering questions. You have a history of not using punctuation.

 

If you wan't I will open a thread where we teach you basics in English.

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^That made me laugh.

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