Where The Heck Were Our Results?!

[Guest sweetcakes]

Hello everyone! =) 

Really, where the heck were our results!? this is just my thoughts and basically what I was talking about to some people on here last night. 

When I read about people leaving the Christian faith, I find it funny how everyone seems to leave for the same reasons. Not getting the same results from. To those that were once a Christian, we all did everything, from watching gospel on TV, reading more about God and the Bible on the internet, praying more, giving more in offering, trying to be like Jesus. However....the results just weren't the same from everyone else. You'll have people saying how they heard from God, God spoke to them, they have this connection with God like no other and mind you, you both did the same thing. How come you didn't get the result? Good question. Heck, you even repented your sins, ask God to forgive you for them. 

That's something I never understood. You did the same thing that others did, however, it's like God just had you on block or something. Now, I'm not saying that these people are lying, I do believe that they heard from God, however, what about me? Doing all of those things to get closer to God yet nothing. Next thing you know you start to envy those that do have this connection with God, in my eyes it wasn't fair to be doing everything that these people were doing and you got nothing out of it. Heck, it's not even the blessings, it's just the connection. I had times when I was pissed off at God.

In the end, you probably grew tired like me and give up on the faith because of this. The lack of connection. I understand that we're not always going to be feeling Him maybe, however, there comes a point when enough is enough, not feeling anything at all is the worse feeling ever. 

To my atheist, relax yourself, I may not be on the same page as you and everything, however, not here to judge, just here to voice my thoughts that I couldn't dare to on Christian forums I was a part of. 

Feel free to add on, I am willing to read all of your thoughts and understand why you give up on the faith. My reason is right what I talked about above. The title says it all. 

Have a great day to you all! =)

[TrueFreedom]

I didn't always get the same results that others did, but I often did feel a connection to God.  I now believe that it was all in my head.  I've known many people who have remained faithful to their Christian beliefs even though they don't feel as close to God as they would like.  They don't feel like God is listening when they pray, but they do it anyway.  They have doubts but feel compelled to remain faithful to what they have been indoctrinated with.  I believe the guilt, fear and group-think keep them there.

[seven77]

Why did I give up on faith?

 

There were several reasons, many minor and three major. For the sake of brevity, I will only list the majors.

 

1) An Answered Prayer That Blew Up In My Face -- Long story very short, I prayed for my sister and her sons to come around. They did, I had custody of two of her sons for about a year or so, she got clean, took her kids, and ran off, severing contact. So in this case, I got a result, but it was messed up and hurt me very badly.

 

2) A Persistent Nagging Feeling That Forgiveness Is Bullshit -- I had a childhood tinged with prolonged sexual abuse. Those events left deep scars and I have serious problems with those who say "Just forgive X and Y for what they did to you all of those years ago." Forgiveness is not easy and I will never forget what happened. Nor will I encourage others to forgive such grievous crimes against their persons. No, I think that people are more valuable than feel-good sayings in devotional literature. I think that our societies should be stronger and that criminals should be punished. I won't pray to be forgiven for my sins when so many have gotten away with so much and then ran to God, acting as if falling on their knees for Jesus can possibly take away the worlds of pain that they have caused others.

 

3) Knowledge That Faith Is Illogical -- Faith doesn't make sense. Miracles are statistical aberrations. Prayer is happenstance. The whole shebang is a very one-sided long-term relationship with an invisible egomaniac. I couldn't live like that anymore, trapped in paradox of "freedom in The Lord" where you are only free to think and feel as your church and God tell you to....

 

That's all for now.

[florduh]

It's all in the believer's head. Obviously, your head is clearer than most. Be glad you didn't delude yourself any further.

 

I did not give up on Christianity because I failed to generate an emotional high or mystical feeling from employing it. Anyone can get that from drugs or intense ritual. I gave up on the religion because I was studying the Bible and it doesn't stand up under scrutiny.

[darwinfish]

I accepted Christianity out of fear of hell and indoctrination before I could even talk. I left Christianity through reason and studying the evidence of Biblical claims. When you present questions of doubt to a believer, the one thing they will not do is actually question if belief in God is valid. Instead they will present you with a myriad of explanations all of which are completely non-testable. A believer might respond to your question by saying, "Maybe God is talking to you. But, you're expecting something loud and thunderous and not listening for a still, small voice." The idea is that if you begin to read into the little things in your life, that should explain away all your doubts and concerns. 

[bfuddled]

Welcome to the forum!

 

I gave up on faith for many reasons, but one of them is what you described. I got tired of explaining away all the inconsistencies and the LACK of responses. I can very vividly remember times that I cried out to God, fully and totally baring my soul in vulnerability, and got..... NOTHING in reply. As soon as I started to be reasonable about what I could accept as God "intervening" (suddenly finding my car keys was NOT God) I found that all the supposed evidence was gone. After that it was a matter of examining the evidence (or lack thereof) and realizing that I didn't believe anymore. Funny how SO MANY things make sense now.

[♦ ficino ♦]

When you present questions of doubt to a believer, the one thing they will not do is actually question if belief in God is valid. Instead they will present you with a myriad of explanations all of which are completely non-testable. A believer might respond to your question by saying, "Maybe God is talking to you. But, you're expecting something loud and thunderous and not listening for a still, small voice."

Very good point. Your "believer's" response sounds like something one of our current Christian apologists on here would say. We've all heard, and thought, of untestable stuff like this.

[Castiel233]

Never felt Him, despite at times wanting to. The talking was all one way traffic, He never answered back

[Deidre]

I had "results," but then I woke up, and realized god was but a dream of mine. All I wanted him to be, and what I needed him to be.

Objective truth will set everyone free. But you have to be willing to let go of the fantasy, to believe it.

 

Welcome to the forums! Hope u enjoy it here.

[Margee]

Welcome to Ex-c sweetcakes!! good to have you with us and thank you for sharing!!

 

This would be my testimony as to why I lost my faith......

 

Keep posting!!  *hug*

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/#.U_JYlPldXOg

[TheRedneckProfessor]

To produce results, god would actually have to exist.  Apparently, that's too much trouble for him.

[Orbit]

I've had some great religious experiences, and I have the same ones now, but I interpret where it's coming from differently. Studying the Bible will cure you of Christianity faster than anything else.

[disillusioned]

I accepted Christianity out of fear of hell and indoctrination before I could even talk. I left Christianity through reason and studying the evidence of Biblical claims. When you present questions of doubt to a believer, the one thing they will not do is actually question if belief in God is valid. Instead they will present you with a myriad of explanations all of which are completely non-testable. A believer might respond to your question by saying, "Maybe God is talking to you. But, you're expecting something loud and thunderous and not listening for a still, small voice." The idea is that if you begin to read into the little things in your life, that should explain away all your doubts and concerns. 

 

Very well put.

 

I never believed that I was able to hear from God. Even when I believed without question, it always seemed rather presumptuous to me to claim that God would speak to me personally. I couldn't imagine how I could possibly know for sure that any such communication had really come from God. And yet, I was constantly being told that God would speak to me, if I would only humble myself and draw near to him. The fact that He never did was a very important step in my journey away from the faith.

 

I contend that the claim to know the will of God is central to the Christian religion. I also contend that it is not possible to substantiate this claim. In light of this fact, I hold that this claim is both extremely arrogant and very dangerous. I have had lengthy exchanges with many Christians on this topic. Most recently, my father and I exchanged a series of emails discussing exactly this. I asked him (among other things) how he could possibly know that he had heard from God. He told me that it is not a rational experience, and that it hence does not require rational justification. He also claimed that God is beyond what we are capable of understanding, and that it is therefore not surprising that communication with Him defies our rationality. I took the liberty of pointing out that this leaves us with an irrational, incoherent, and utterly unsubstantiated claim. Surely such a claim can be safely dismissed as meaningless.

 

On other hand, if you have faith that God wants to speak to you, and you patiently listen for His voice, you might be able to convince yourself that He actually has spoken to you. You need to want to believe it in order for it to seem as though it is true. This is the definition of wishful thinking. One can convince oneself of literally anything by reasoning along these lines.

[Guest sweetcakes]

Why did I give up on faith?

 

There were several reasons, many minor and three major. For the sake of brevity, I will only list the majors.

 

1) An Answered Prayer That Blew Up In My Face -- Long story very short, I prayed for my sister and her sons to come around. They did, I had custody of two of her sons for about a year or so, she got clean, took her kids, and ran off, severing contact. So in this case, I got a result, but it was messed up and hurt me very badly.

 

2) A Persistent Nagging Feeling That Forgiveness Is Bullshit -- I had a childhood tinged with prolonged sexual abuse. Those events left deep scars and I have serious problems with those who say "Just forgive X and Y for what they did to you all of those years ago." Forgiveness is not easy and I will never forget what happened. Nor will I encourage others to forgive such grievous crimes against their persons. No, I think that people are more valuable than feel-good sayings in devotional literature. I think that our societies should be stronger and that criminals should be punished. I won't pray to be forgiven for my sins when so many have gotten away with so much and then ran to God, acting as if falling on their knees for Jesus can possibly take away the worlds of pain that they have caused others.

 

3) Knowledge That Faith Is Illogical -- Faith doesn't make sense. Miracles are statistical aberrations. Prayer is happenstance. The whole shebang is a very one-sided long-term relationship with an invisible egomaniac. I couldn't live like that anymore, trapped in paradox of "freedom in The Lord" where you are only free to think and feel as your church and God tell you to....

 

That's all for now.

 

I'm sorry that happened to you, forgiveness is a hard thing. It's not easy to forgive people, however, forgetting is also not easy. However, you can forgive some and not have to be friends with them or anything, forgiving to me is the act of letting go of what happened, if one does not forgive, they end up holding on, why hold on to something that felt bad? That's just the way I see it, I understand it's hard, however, speaking out of my own experience, not forgiving people made my heart cold, it was a struggle but I had to let go, am I saying that people should keep doing wrong? No.

 

We all made our own share of mistakes in this world, I'm also not saying that to those to keep making mistakes, however, like I said, forgiving is the act of letting go and looking for the better in yourself, hopefully you understand. 

[Guest sweetcakes]

I've had some great religious experiences, and I have the same ones now, but I interpret where it's coming from differently. Studying the Bible will cure you of Christianity faster than anything else.

I studied the Bible, well at least tried to. I would read the Bible from the first book, thinking it would change something, yet nothing. It just got me really upset because like I said...doing all of this...with no results, while everyone is getting their sweet connection. Not feeling connection would make any feel hurt especially when that someone -God- loves you ever so dearly like people would say. 

[Lilith666]

That's right. The old pastor loved to say that our "relationship with the lord should be a two-way street"--that when we talked to him, we should get an answer. I never heard diddly squat. Eventually I started making up my own answers and convinced myself that they were from God. Or I would read something in the bible that stood out to me; but that's the bible. You can't take something that's already written and claim it's an answer from anybody.

 

I didn't quit because of the lack of connection, but it was a major source of guilt. You must be doing something wrong if it isn't working....your faith isn't strong enough....you have sinned and need forgiveness....OR *gasp* MAYBE YOU JUST DON'T LOVE JESUS ENOUGH?!?! HOW COULD YOU?? HE DIED FOR YOUR SINS, SCUM!!!!

 

 

[DoubtingNate]

What is boils down to for me, ultimately, is that I started talking to other people and reading other stuff.  There are lots of points, but really, it was that simple.  The emotional side of it was a little more challenging however.

[seven77]

 

Why did I give up on faith?

 

There were several reasons, many minor and three major. For the sake of brevity, I will only list the majors.

 

1) An Answered Prayer That Blew Up In My Face -- Long story very short, I prayed for my sister and her sons to come around. They did, I had custody of two of her sons for about a year or so, she got clean, took her kids, and ran off, severing contact. So in this case, I got a result, but it was messed up and hurt me very badly.

 

2) A Persistent Nagging Feeling That Forgiveness Is Bullshit -- I had a childhood tinged with prolonged sexual abuse. Those events left deep scars and I have serious problems with those who say "Just forgive X and Y for what they did to you all of those years ago." Forgiveness is not easy and I will never forget what happened. Nor will I encourage others to forgive such grievous crimes against their persons. No, I think that people are more valuable than feel-good sayings in devotional literature. I think that our societies should be stronger and that criminals should be punished. I won't pray to be forgiven for my sins when so many have gotten away with so much and then ran to God, acting as if falling on their knees for Jesus can possibly take away the worlds of pain that they have caused others.

 

3) Knowledge That Faith Is Illogical -- Faith doesn't make sense. Miracles are statistical aberrations. Prayer is happenstance. The whole shebang is a very one-sided long-term relationship with an invisible egomaniac. I couldn't live like that anymore, trapped in paradox of "freedom in The Lord" where you are only free to think and feel as your church and God tell you to....

 

That's all for now.

I'm sorry that happened to you, forgiveness is a hard thing. It's not easy to forgive people, however, forgetting is also not easy. However, you can forgive some and not have to be friends with them or anything, forgiving to me is the act of letting go of what happened, if one does not forgive, they end up holding on, why hold on to something that felt bad? That's just the way I see it, I understand it's hard, however, speaking out of my own experience, not forgiving people made my heart cold, it was a struggle but I had to let go, am I saying that people should keep doing wrong? No.

 

We all made our own share of mistakes in this world, I'm also not saying that to those to keep making mistakes, however, like I said, forgiving is the act of letting go and looking for the better in yourself, hopefully you understand. 

 

 

It is difficult to let go of the things. I can't do it, can't forgive those assholes. I spent 2+ years in therapy as a teen and then 2+ years in my 20s, desperately trying to get over it, to forgive. The Christian doctrine of forgiveness is bullshit and after 5 years in the fold, I saw that clearly. The believers I encountered lie about forgiveness. Most of them are in favor of the death penalty. Most of them can't imagine their daughters going through what I went through. Yet they talk about trust and peace and forgiveness and multiple chances to do the right thing. Try doing them or theirs wrong and watch how quickly they turn. They don't turn the other cheek. They'll be the first ones to tell you where to get off, so to speak. If they feel wronged, they don't forgive shit. They can't even stand to hear that they are wrong. Let alone forgive whomever wronged them.

 

They just hide their negative emotions and opinions under a veneer of "godliness", of Christianese, of prayer and platitude. I do not believe that many are capable of truly forgiving and I do not think that all are deserving of forgiveness in the first place. Some crimes against persons simply are not forgiveable, imho. That's not what the church teaches and that is why I left.

[Leo]

Welcome aboard, Sweetcakes.

During the last ten years or so of my Christianity, I was in what many Christians call a 'dry' period. Realistically, I had had no great number of religious experiences since my early 20s, nearly ten years before that, but still. I took the classical interpretation of a 'dry' time, and went to studying the Scriptures more, studying apologetics, and being dutiful. Admittedly exhibiting the Tree Noble Virtues of love, honor and fidelity, only towards a being who doesn't exist. I don't regret the ten 'dry' years. I have nothing to be embarrassed about, as I perhaps was for a time RE: the early 20s. More and more I began to realize what was difficult was not God at all: it was upholding the meme, maintaining for the sake of the family and what I thought was my faith. My thinking had grown more and more atheistic in nature since my 'backsliding' in the mid 90s after the 2 years' fiery period of my life. I didn't know it then. But growing in the understanding of rational inquiry and how it works simply served to help me deconvert. Sure, at one point, I was upset about not having God on my side. I'd also been through a lot growing up, and many well-meaning Christians thought I would be 'healed' from some of this stuff. But we all have to face things in life, and I ultimately faced this one down also. I guess more than his absence or my inability to pray very well was not as big an issue as what I saw as clear failings on his part, as a father or as a husband. The Christians claim God is a father to us. The more my daughter grew, and the more time I spent taking care of her, the less I could see god as any kind of a father. The same goes for Jesus as the bridegroom. The longer I was married, the more incongruous this analogy came to be. And since Christian apologetics are atheistic to all other religions, and even commit rational deicide on the competing gods of the competing Christianities, I have to admit, they did most my work for me. They, and the events in the Middle East, which paint an accurate picture of what an old testament Yahweh looks like.

Anyway, I think you'll find as many paths to deconversion on here as there are peple. Part of our problem is we travel this path alone for so long we think ours is the dominant pat. Someone caught me at this when I was first here, when I made it sound like we all had become atheist. Some of us are, myself included, others are not. Some of us are into rational inquiry as a systematic thought process now, others are not. I listened closely to an ex-preacher Jerry DeWitt speak on his deconversion. He claims he doesn't have the science background some of us do, and that may be so: he was a preacher, and I and some others on here are software engineers and scientists, and others on here were theologians. But if you listen to him speak, it's very heartfelt, and expresses things in ways I would never even dream of coming up with. I'd say I have kind of a community experience just listening to him talk.

[Flutters]

I spent years seeking forgiveness, not only for myself, but from myself. Occassionally I could convince myself that god had finally granted me the gift. I prayed for suffering, poverty, famine, war, disease, and help for myself. There never was any. Ever. I could certainly make connections and attribute patterns to communication from god, but somewhere in the deepest of my being, I knew it was coincidence, and that a god should have to make it unquestionably from him.

 

I tried so hard to be christlike, never swore, drank, fasted regularly, and had a very sincere heart. This much I know. I often felt god was like an absentee parent, shirking his responsibilities and dangling carrots. I observed that my christian friends could not see that our faith made us so incredibly selfish, egocentric, and deferring this life in favour of the next. We lived this life like we were padding our resume for the next one, so we could get immortality and the best of the brownie points blessings. Tiem and again I have been abandoned and betrayed by those who claim to never do so because of their christian love for me.

 

People would tell stories about how they had no money to pay for groceries, and it fell from out of nowhere while they were in line at the store. How angels did this or that, how god provided in dire circumstances. I then felt even worse about myself that ever before, wondering how I could be so incredibly worthless and awful that he never ever once showed himself to me in such a way as to give me that same comfort and assurance. So then I decided he was a friggin jerk, playing favourites and mind games if this were true.

 

When I finally let the idea fully enter my mind, that maybe god was a lie, I gained a little more perspective every day, and eventually realized that we see what we need to, patterns, coicidence, chance, and blind to the entire details. I am still in deconversion, so while i know there is no god, I am working through the myraid issues that go with that. Like others, one of the first freedoms I have enjoyed is realizing I don't have to forgive abusers, and it won't destroy me.

 

Welcome, and I hope your path is a good one.

[Guest sweetcakes]

That's right. The old pastor loved to say that our "relationship with the lord should be a two-way street"--that when we talked to him, we should get an answer. I never heard diddly squat. Eventually I started making up my own answers and convinced myself that they were from God. Or I would read something in the bible that stood out to me; but that's the bible. You can't take something that's already written and claim it's an answer from anybody.

 

I didn't quit because of the lack of connection, but it was a major source of guilt. You must be doing something wrong if it isn't working....your faith isn't strong enough....you have sinned and need forgiveness....OR *gasp* MAYBE YOU JUST DON'T LOVE JESUS ENOUGH?!?! HOW COULD YOU?? HE DIED FOR YOUR SINS, SCUM!!!!

The guilt! Which is also another reason why I give up my faith, you'd feel such awful guilt. It was terrible and no one can deal with any type of guilt feeling. 

 

 

 

 

 

Why did I give up on faith?

 

There were several reasons, many minor and three major. For the sake of brevity, I will only list the majors.

 

1) An Answered Prayer That Blew Up In My Face -- Long story very short, I prayed for my sister and her sons to come around. They did, I had custody of two of her sons for about a year or so, she got clean, took her kids, and ran off, severing contact. So in this case, I got a result, but it was messed up and hurt me very badly.

 

2) A Persistent Nagging Feeling That Forgiveness Is Bullshit -- I had a childhood tinged with prolonged sexual abuse. Those events left deep scars and I have serious problems with those who say "Just forgive X and Y for what they did to you all of those years ago." Forgiveness is not easy and I will never forget what happened. Nor will I encourage others to forgive such grievous crimes against their persons. No, I think that people are more valuable than feel-good sayings in devotional literature. I think that our societies should be stronger and that criminals should be punished. I won't pray to be forgiven for my sins when so many have gotten away with so much and then ran to God, acting as if falling on their knees for Jesus can possibly take away the worlds of pain that they have caused others.

 

3) Knowledge That Faith Is Illogical -- Faith doesn't make sense. Miracles are statistical aberrations. Prayer is happenstance. The whole shebang is a very one-sided long-term relationship with an invisible egomaniac. I couldn't live like that anymore, trapped in paradox of "freedom in The Lord" where you are only free to think and feel as your church and God tell you to....

 

That's all for now.

I'm sorry that happened to you, forgiveness is a hard thing. It's not easy to forgive people, however, forgetting is also not easy. However, you can forgive some and not have to be friends with them or anything, forgiving to me is the act of letting go of what happened, if one does not forgive, they end up holding on, why hold on to something that felt bad? That's just the way I see it, I understand it's hard, however, speaking out of my own experience, not forgiving people made my heart cold, it was a struggle but I had to let go, am I saying that people should keep doing wrong? No.

 

We all made our own share of mistakes in this world, I'm also not saying that to those to keep making mistakes, however, like I said, forgiving is the act of letting go and looking for the better in yourself, hopefully you understand. 

 

 

It is difficult to let go of the things. I can't do it, can't forgive those assholes. I spent 2+ years in therapy as a teen and then 2+ years in my 20s, desperately trying to get over it, to forgive. The Christian doctrine of forgiveness is bullshit and after 5 years in the fold, I saw that clearly. The believers I encountered lie about forgiveness. Most of them are in favor of the death penalty. Most of them can't imagine their daughters going through what I went through. Yet they talk about trust and peace and forgiveness and multiple chances to do the right thing. Try doing them or theirs wrong and watch how quickly they turn. They don't turn the other cheek. They'll be the first ones to tell you where to get off, so to speak. If they feel wronged, they don't forgive shit. They can't even stand to hear that they are wrong. Let alone forgive whomever wronged them.

 

They just hide their negative emotions and opinions under a veneer of "godliness", of Christianese, of prayer and platitude. I do not believe that many are capable of truly forgiving and I do not think that all are deserving of forgiveness in the first place. Some crimes against persons simply are not forgiveable, imho. That's not what the church teaches and that is why I left.

 

 Just let it go, believe me, let it go. I'm not saying let it go at this very moment, letting go of things takes time, which is what people need to understand. You said you can't let go, but please, why would you hold on to something that causes so much pain, you can't change anything about it because it happened in the past, do yourself a favor and let go, it's not easy, I know it's not easy, especially with what you've been through. 

 

Christians will try to do this mask that everything is okay, when truly, it's not, not just with forgiveness just things in general, there is nothing wrong with breaking down, but sadly, they think if they did or something, they didn't have full faith in God or whatever.  

[rach]

 

People would tell stories about how they had no money to pay for groceries, and it fell from out of nowhere while they were in line at the store. How angels did this or that, how god provided in dire circumstances. I then felt even worse about myself that ever before, wondering how I could be so incredibly worthless and awful that he never ever once showed himself to me in such a way as to give me that same comfort and assurance. So then I decided he was a friggin jerk, playing favourites and mind games if this were true.

 

Yes.  Brilliant.  I am one of those also that god apparently hates because he never lifted a finger to help me.  The worst thing about it was that I always thought it was me.  I saw it working for everybody else.  Prayers granted, needs met.  Why shouldn't it be working for me?  It's because of my sins!  I haven't repented enough.  I need to do further sin-cleansing.  And it still doesn't work.  Well, it can't be god, because god never lies.  So that means...more sin cleaning!   I used to think the people that were provided for and were having prayers granted and even hearing god speak to them, were the saints.  They were at a level of goodness that I could never ever attain.  I was rotten.  I even told a-mum that I was evil.   that I was a demon a child of satan.  A-mum pretty much agreed with that

 

I am, admittedly, a bitch.  But I am a real bitch.  I am not a phony baloney pretending to be something I'm not.  I'm a bitch and I own that.  I do a lot of fucking good in this world.  And I don't do half the harm that the "saints" and their god do.  There's something good about evil and there is something evil about good.  You know?  They used to burn the witches but the real evil was in the hands lighting the fire, not the hands tied to the stake, no matter what god would have you believe. 

[Flutters]

Such helpful insight, an profound words Human, thank you.

 

"Once we realize God isn't real, and we stop believing and let go, the related issues are really about ourselves"

 

This is the crux right now - I really needed to have that articulated, so that I can begin this work. Trying to understand what those issues are that relate to myself. Thank you once more.