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Goodbye Jesus

Should You Be Praying?


Guest Marty

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How is it determined that the so-called "benefits of prayer" aren't just byproducts of personality types?

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So, pretending that a deity exists is better for one's health? Lol!!

 

We all once believed in the Christian idea of a god, but it's downright disturbing that it's being suggested here to rely on an imaginary being and you will probably suffer less anxiety.

 

Only religion can get away with lying to people like this. :/

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Stress is our greatest threat to health these days. It's the catalyst for heart disease, immune response issues, and much more. Calming activities such as prayer and meditation can help lower stress levels. However, I think owning a pet such as a cat or dog does more for one's health and sense of well being. I'd have to look it up, but I don't care enough to go to the trouble. I do know that pet owners have lower cholesterol and triglyceride levels than those who don't have pets.

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I have often thought that prayer can be effective in two instances:

  1. When you spend a lot of time praying about something where you can have an influence, your mind is going to find ways to make it happen.  For example, you want to have a closer relationship with your sibling.  Constantly praying about it keeps it in the front of your thoughts and motivates some people to take steps to make it happen.
  2. I also think prayer can work as positive affirmation.  If you have to give a public speech and pray about it, it can help give you the confidence to give a good performance in the same way as just repeating positive affirmations.

That said, I don't think there is anyone on the other end of the phone when you are praying and I don't practice prayer myself anymore but I do occasionally repeat positive affirmations.

 

p.s. The author of the video is an atheist and makes some great videos. 

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How is it determined that the so-called "benefits of prayer" aren't just byproducts of personality types?

I think it's pretty certain they are byproducts - but if you happen to have a personality type (or whatever other psychological factor it is that affects this) that derives benefits from prayer, using that to your benefit does make sense.

 

 

I have often thought that prayer can be effective in two instances:

  1. When you spend a lot of time praying about something where you can have an influence, your mind is going to find ways to make it happen.  For example, you want to have a closer relationship with your sibling.  Constantly praying about it keeps it in the front of your thoughts and motivates some people to take steps to make it happen.
  2. I also think prayer can work as positive affirmation.  If you have to give a public speech and pray about it, it can help give you the confidence to give a good performance in the same way as just repeating positive affirmations.

That said, I don't think there is anyone on the other end of the phone when you are praying and I don't practice prayer myself anymore but I do occasionally repeat positive affirmations.

 

p.s. The author of the video is an atheist and makes some great videos. 

 
In Judaism, you're often taught to consider your actions of the day as an impartial judge while praying, and resolving to improve on the stuff you did wrong and keep doing what you did well. I think that's a third part. A fourth thing might be that you associate certain mental states - often ones of at the very least some kind of vague happiness - with the act of prayer. This may help your return to that happiness and sense of security by the act of prayer later on when more challenging times are coming, thus helping you gather strength even in those times. 
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     I should not be praying.

 

     Oh, and there's this (also from Baylor):

 

Anxiety and Amen: Prayer Doesn’t Ease Symptoms of Anxiety-Related Disorders for Everyone, Baylor Study Finds

 

     It just came out a week ago.  It says that sometimes prayer helps and sometimes it...wait for it...sometimes it doesn't help.  It depends on the person.  Well, what do you know?

 

          mwc

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Also it seems some people do the prayer or meditation thing more readily than others. Prayer was a chore for me. Nonspiritual meditation was also a chore when I tried it this past fall.

Also, there are studies that show repeating positive affirmations can actually make anxiety worse, because there is the directive to believe the things. That's how that would work on me. Don't tell me 'oh it'll all get better,' or 'Oh, that will never happen to you anymore," Instead let's find a solution to the problem so that it *will* be okay and it *won't* happen anymore. I'm living proof of the hollow effects of such statements. Perhaps that is how I was cut and shaped into the real world solutions kinda guy that I am.

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I have spirituality that doesn't lie to me through meditation. I have friends for social support, so I don't need a church.

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Stress is our greatest threat to health these days. It's the catalyst for heart disease, immune response issues, and much more. Calming activities such as prayer and meditation can help lower stress levels. However, I think owning a pet such as a cat or dog does more for one's health and sense of well being. I'd have to look it up, but I don't care enough to go to the trouble. I do know that pet owners have lower cholesterol and triglyceride levels than those who don't have pets.

 

 

Laughing is a better stress remover than any religion or prayer one can say.

 

1 laugh I would take that any day over any amount of prayer.

 

it really is good medicine.

 

by the way to the second statement... so do people who eat almonds or peanuts everday in small amounts. Mine is lower by 60% than others my age and I attribute it to one handfull of peanuts a day for the last 15 years. I don't own pets.

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Stress is our greatest threat to health these days. It's the catalyst for heart disease, immune response issues, and much more. Calming activities such as prayer and meditation can help lower stress levels. However, I think owning a pet such as a cat or dog does more for one's health and sense of well being. I'd have to look it up, but I don't care enough to go to the trouble. I do know that pet owners have lower cholesterol and triglyceride levels than those who don't have pets.

 

 

Laughing is a better stress remover than any religion or prayer one can say.

 

1 laugh I would take that any day over any amount of prayer.

 

it really is good medicine.

 

by the way to the second statement... so do people who eat almonds or peanuts everday in small amounts. Mine is lower by 60% than others my age and I attribute it to one handfull of peanuts a day for the last 15 years. I don't own pets.

 

Certainly one can say that laughing is a better stress remover than any religion or prayer, but ... that's just an assertion without any backing up. Besides, no one here is telling people to stop laughing and replace it with prayer instead. The most anyone's said in favour of prayer is basically that for some people, prayer can be a beneficial mental exercise, and adding what is said in the video that a community is a healthy thing, and prayer with a community might improve a bit on that. There is some research carried out on prayer done by Jews and Muslims, and it turns out that the communal prayer that is part of those religions seems to have some positive effects on the mind. 

 

Certainly research also says laughter is healthy. But no one ever posited this as an either-or situation, except maybe a handful of really crazy ultra-christians off in some crazily backwards sect somewhere.

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Prayer and meditation don't work for me. I like to get out in nature. Watching birds and animals is the big stress reliever for me.

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Stress is our greatest threat to health these days. It's the catalyst for heart disease, immune response issues, and much more. Calming activities such as prayer and meditation can help lower stress levels. However, I think owning a pet such as a cat or dog does more for one's health and sense of well being. I'd have to look it up, but I don't care enough to go to the trouble. I do know that pet owners have lower cholesterol and triglyceride levels than those who don't have pets.

 

 

Laughing is a better stress remover than any religion or prayer one can say.

 

1 laugh I would take that any day over any amount of prayer.

 

it really is good medicine.

 

by the way to the second statement... so do people who eat almonds or peanuts everday in small amounts. Mine is lower by 60% than others my age and I attribute it to one handfull of peanuts a day for the last 15 years. I don't own pets.

 

Certainly one can say that laughing is a better stress remover than any religion or prayer, but ... that's just an assertion without any backing up. Besides, no one here is telling people to stop laughing and replace it with prayer instead. The most anyone's said in favour of prayer is basically that for some people, prayer can be a beneficial mental exercise, and adding what is said in the video that a community is a healthy thing, and prayer with a community might improve a bit on that. There is some research carried out on prayer done by Jews and Muslims, and it turns out that the communal prayer that is part of those religions seems to have some positive effects on the mind. 

 

Certainly research also says laughter is healthy. But no one ever posited this as an either-or situation, except maybe a handful of really crazy ultra-christians off in some crazily backwards sect somewhere.

 

 

You can assume I meant something other than the direct words I typed I can't really stop you.

 

I have watched prayer crush people and make them a lot worse than better in my life. it is a temp fix that in the end for anyone moving on past religion or the need to pray will just be more damaging.

 

no one leaving religion and saying to themselves this god I was praying to is not real then they keep praying to him/her/it is just going to hurt themselves in the long run.

 

There are healthier things to do over prayer. Not that prayer is unhealthy as a simple act but really what things do humans and religion make simple?

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Stress is our greatest threat to health these days. It's the catalyst for heart disease, immune response issues, and much more. Calming activities such as prayer and meditation can help lower stress levels. However, I think owning a pet such as a cat or dog does more for one's health and sense of well being. I'd have to look it up, but I don't care enough to go to the trouble. I do know that pet owners have lower cholesterol and triglyceride levels than those who don't have pets.

 

 

Laughing is a better stress remover than any religion or prayer one can say.

 

1 laugh I would take that any day over any amount of prayer.

 

it really is good medicine.

 

by the way to the second statement... so do people who eat almonds or peanuts everday in small amounts. Mine is lower by 60% than others my age and I attribute it to one handfull of peanuts a day for the last 15 years. I don't own pets.

 

Certainly one can say that laughing is a better stress remover than any religion or prayer, but ... that's just an assertion without any backing up. Besides, no one here is telling people to stop laughing and replace it with prayer instead. The most anyone's said in favour of prayer is basically that for some people, prayer can be a beneficial mental exercise, and adding what is said in the video that a community is a healthy thing, and prayer with a community might improve a bit on that. There is some research carried out on prayer done by Jews and Muslims, and it turns out that the communal prayer that is part of those religions seems to have some positive effects on the mind. 

 

Certainly research also says laughter is healthy. But no one ever posited this as an either-or situation, except maybe a handful of really crazy ultra-christians off in some crazily backwards sect somewhere.

 

 

You can assume I meant something other than the direct words I typed I can't really stop you.

 

I have watched prayer crush people and make them a lot worse than better in my life. it is a temp fix that in the end for anyone moving on past religion or the need to pray will just be more damaging.

 

no one leaving religion and saying to themselves this god I was praying to is not real then they keep praying to him/her/it is just going to hurt themselves in the long run.

 

There are healthier things to do over prayer. Not that prayer is unhealthy as a simple act but really what things do humans and religion make simple?

 

Again with the generalizations.

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Stress is our greatest threat to health these days. It's the catalyst for heart disease, immune response issues, and much more. Calming activities such as prayer and meditation can help lower stress levels. However, I think owning a pet such as a cat or dog does more for one's health and sense of well being. I'd have to look it up, but I don't care enough to go to the trouble. I do know that pet owners have lower cholesterol and triglyceride levels than those who don't have pets.

 

 

Laughing is a better stress remover than any religion or prayer one can say.

 

1 laugh I would take that any day over any amount of prayer.

 

it really is good medicine.

 

by the way to the second statement... so do people who eat almonds or peanuts everday in small amounts. Mine is lower by 60% than others my age and I attribute it to one handfull of peanuts a day for the last 15 years. I don't own pets.

 

Certainly one can say that laughing is a better stress remover than any religion or prayer, but ... that's just an assertion without any backing up. Besides, no one here is telling people to stop laughing and replace it with prayer instead. The most anyone's said in favour of prayer is basically that for some people, prayer can be a beneficial mental exercise, and adding what is said in the video that a community is a healthy thing, and prayer with a community might improve a bit on that. There is some research carried out on prayer done by Jews and Muslims, and it turns out that the communal prayer that is part of those religions seems to have some positive effects on the mind. 

 

Certainly research also says laughter is healthy. But no one ever posited this as an either-or situation, except maybe a handful of really crazy ultra-christians off in some crazily backwards sect somewhere.

 

 

You can assume I meant something other than the direct words I typed I can't really stop you.

 

I have watched prayer crush people and make them a lot worse than better in my life. it is a temp fix that in the end for anyone moving on past religion or the need to pray will just be more damaging.

 

no one leaving religion and saying to themselves this god I was praying to is not real then they keep praying to him/her/it is just going to hurt themselves in the long run.

 

There are healthier things to do over prayer. Not that prayer is unhealthy as a simple act but really what things do humans and religion make simple?

 

Again with the generalizations.

 

 

I think prayer is a lie and a joke. it helps no one, it reinforces delusion that hurts the human race and me personally. If you need more specifics my aunt and uncle prayed he would get better but refused to go see an oncologist... he fucking died from a cancer that they could have cured with almost no problem. prayed did loads of shit in that situation. Specific enough for you?

 

I have plenty more where that came from.

 

I hear what you are saying I just see it differently and that is ok for me.

 

Going and hitting golf balls is healthier in my opinion or sitting and looking at the sky on a nice day.

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Stress is our greatest threat to health these days. It's the catalyst for heart disease, immune response issues, and much more. Calming activities such as prayer and meditation can help lower stress levels. However, I think owning a pet such as a cat or dog does more for one's health and sense of well being. I'd have to look it up, but I don't care enough to go to the trouble. I do know that pet owners have lower cholesterol and triglyceride levels than those who don't have pets.

 

 

Laughing is a better stress remover than any religion or prayer one can say.

 

1 laugh I would take that any day over any amount of prayer.

 

it really is good medicine.

 

by the way to the second statement... so do people who eat almonds or peanuts everday in small amounts. Mine is lower by 60% than others my age and I attribute it to one handfull of peanuts a day for the last 15 years. I don't own pets.

 

Certainly one can say that laughing is a better stress remover than any religion or prayer, but ... that's just an assertion without any backing up. Besides, no one here is telling people to stop laughing and replace it with prayer instead. The most anyone's said in favour of prayer is basically that for some people, prayer can be a beneficial mental exercise, and adding what is said in the video that a community is a healthy thing, and prayer with a community might improve a bit on that. There is some research carried out on prayer done by Jews and Muslims, and it turns out that the communal prayer that is part of those religions seems to have some positive effects on the mind. 

 

Certainly research also says laughter is healthy. But no one ever posited this as an either-or situation, except maybe a handful of really crazy ultra-christians off in some crazily backwards sect somewhere.

 

 

You can assume I meant something other than the direct words I typed I can't really stop you.

 

I have watched prayer crush people and make them a lot worse than better in my life. it is a temp fix that in the end for anyone moving on past religion or the need to pray will just be more damaging.

 

no one leaving religion and saying to themselves this god I was praying to is not real then they keep praying to him/her/it is just going to hurt themselves in the long run.

 

There are healthier things to do over prayer. Not that prayer is unhealthy as a simple act but really what things do humans and religion make simple?

 

Again with the generalizations.

 

 

I think prayer is a lie and a joke. it helps no one, it reinforces delusion that hurts the human race and me personally. If you need more specifics my aunt and uncle prayed he would get better but refused to go see an oncologist... he fucking died from a cancer that they could have cured with almost no problem. prayed did loads of shit in that situation. Specific enough for you?

 

I have plenty more where that came from.

 

I hear what you are saying I just see it differently and that is ok for me.

 

Going and hitting golf balls is healthier in my opinion or sitting and looking at the sky on a nice day.

 

Still a generalization. And I don't think you're hearing what I am saying. I am not saying "ask big daddy in the sky to cure your ailments", I am saying "for some people, some people, not everyone, a daily prayer ritual can be psychologically helpful - especially if decoupled from beliefs like 'god exists' or even 'god helps' or 'prayer can cause miracles''. I hope you see the fucking difference, since it seems you're hellbent on not even trying to comprehend what I am saying. Which where I am from is considered quite rude!

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Stress is our greatest threat to health these days. It's the catalyst for heart disease, immune response issues, and much more. Calming activities such as prayer and meditation can help lower stress levels. However, I think owning a pet such as a cat or dog does more for one's health and sense of well being. I'd have to look it up, but I don't care enough to go to the trouble. I do know that pet owners have lower cholesterol and triglyceride levels than those who don't have pets.

 

 

Laughing is a better stress remover than any religion or prayer one can say.

 

1 laugh I would take that any day over any amount of prayer.

 

it really is good medicine.

 

by the way to the second statement... so do people who eat almonds or peanuts everday in small amounts. Mine is lower by 60% than others my age and I attribute it to one handfull of peanuts a day for the last 15 years. I don't own pets.

 

Certainly one can say that laughing is a better stress remover than any religion or prayer, but ... that's just an assertion without any backing up. Besides, no one here is telling people to stop laughing and replace it with prayer instead. The most anyone's said in favour of prayer is basically that for some people, prayer can be a beneficial mental exercise, and adding what is said in the video that a community is a healthy thing, and prayer with a community might improve a bit on that. There is some research carried out on prayer done by Jews and Muslims, and it turns out that the communal prayer that is part of those religions seems to have some positive effects on the mind. 

 

Certainly research also says laughter is healthy. But no one ever posited this as an either-or situation, except maybe a handful of really crazy ultra-christians off in some crazily backwards sect somewhere.

 

 

You can assume I meant something other than the direct words I typed I can't really stop you.

 

I have watched prayer crush people and make them a lot worse than better in my life. it is a temp fix that in the end for anyone moving on past religion or the need to pray will just be more damaging.

 

no one leaving religion and saying to themselves this god I was praying to is not real then they keep praying to him/her/it is just going to hurt themselves in the long run.

 

There are healthier things to do over prayer. Not that prayer is unhealthy as a simple act but really what things do humans and religion make simple?

 

Again with the generalizations.

 

 

I think prayer is a lie and a joke. it helps no one, it reinforces delusion that hurts the human race and me personally. If you need more specifics my aunt and uncle prayed he would get better but refused to go see an oncologist... he fucking died from a cancer that they could have cured with almost no problem. prayed did loads of shit in that situation. Specific enough for you?

 

I have plenty more where that came from.

 

I hear what you are saying I just see it differently and that is ok for me.

 

Going and hitting golf balls is healthier in my opinion or sitting and looking at the sky on a nice day.

 

Still a generalization. And I don't think you're hearing what I am saying. I am not saying "ask big daddy in the sky to cure your ailments", I am saying "for some people, some people, not everyone, a daily prayer ritual can be psychologically helpful - especially if decoupled from beliefs like 'god exists' or even 'god helps' or 'prayer can cause miracles''. I hope you see the fucking difference, since it seems you're hellbent on not even trying to comprehend what I am saying. Which where I am from is considered quite rude!

 

 

and if that is how you see it great.

 

I say reinforcing delusion is damaging not helpful, I see you don't agree. I see your opinion and respectfully decline to accept it. I offer not counter other than my opinion and in the end we can agree to disagree and let the rest be decided by history. In the end people are going to do anything they want no matter how you or I feel.

 

I personally would rather not lie to myself to help myself. I would rather find alternatives if I need that medicine so to speak.

 

I would rather get drunk and fall down and laugh at myself than pray. if that it still to nonspecific there is really nothing more to say about it from my end.

 

you are attacking me personally and basically being the rude person you are saying I am being. I accept you disagree with me can you accept others may not agree with you?

 

Think you can hold it together long enough not to be so coarse at me? it is ok if you can't but I just thought I would ask...

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Stress is our greatest threat to health these days. It's the catalyst for heart disease, immune response issues, and much more. Calming activities such as prayer and meditation can help lower stress levels. However, I think owning a pet such as a cat or dog does more for one's health and sense of well being. I'd have to look it up, but I don't care enough to go to the trouble. I do know that pet owners have lower cholesterol and triglyceride levels than those who don't have pets.

 

 

Laughing is a better stress remover than any religion or prayer one can say.

 

1 laugh I would take that any day over any amount of prayer.

 

it really is good medicine.

 

by the way to the second statement... so do people who eat almonds or peanuts everday in small amounts. Mine is lower by 60% than others my age and I attribute it to one handfull of peanuts a day for the last 15 years. I don't own pets.

 

Certainly one can say that laughing is a better stress remover than any religion or prayer, but ... that's just an assertion without any backing up. Besides, no one here is telling people to stop laughing and replace it with prayer instead. The most anyone's said in favour of prayer is basically that for some people, prayer can be a beneficial mental exercise, and adding what is said in the video that a community is a healthy thing, and prayer with a community might improve a bit on that. There is some research carried out on prayer done by Jews and Muslims, and it turns out that the communal prayer that is part of those religions seems to have some positive effects on the mind. 

 

Certainly research also says laughter is healthy. But no one ever posited this as an either-or situation, except maybe a handful of really crazy ultra-christians off in some crazily backwards sect somewhere.

 

 

You can assume I meant something other than the direct words I typed I can't really stop you.

 

I have watched prayer crush people and make them a lot worse than better in my life. it is a temp fix that in the end for anyone moving on past religion or the need to pray will just be more damaging.

 

no one leaving religion and saying to themselves this god I was praying to is not real then they keep praying to him/her/it is just going to hurt themselves in the long run.

 

There are healthier things to do over prayer. Not that prayer is unhealthy as a simple act but really what things do humans and religion make simple?

 

Again with the generalizations.

 

 

I think prayer is a lie and a joke. it helps no one, it reinforces delusion that hurts the human race and me personally. If you need more specifics my aunt and uncle prayed he would get better but refused to go see an oncologist... he fucking died from a cancer that they could have cured with almost no problem. prayed did loads of shit in that situation. Specific enough for you?

 

I have plenty more where that came from.

 

I hear what you are saying I just see it differently and that is ok for me.

 

Going and hitting golf balls is healthier in my opinion or sitting and looking at the sky on a nice day.

 

Still a generalization. And I don't think you're hearing what I am saying. I am not saying "ask big daddy in the sky to cure your ailments", I am saying "for some people, some people, not everyone, a daily prayer ritual can be psychologically helpful - especially if decoupled from beliefs like 'god exists' or even 'god helps' or 'prayer can cause miracles''. I hope you see the fucking difference, since it seems you're hellbent on not even trying to comprehend what I am saying. Which where I am from is considered quite rude!

 

 

and if that is how you see it great.

 

I say reinforcing delusion is damaging not helpful, I see you don't agree. I see your opinion and respectfully decline to accept it. I offer not counter other than my opinion and in the end we can agree to disagree and let the rest be decided by history. In the end people are going to do anything they want no matter how you or I feel.

 

I personally would rather not lie to myself to help myself. I would rather find alternatives if I need that medicine so to speak.

 

I would rather get drunk and fall down and laugh at myself than pray. if that it still to nonspecific there is really nothing more to say about it from my end.

 

you are attacking me personally and basically being the rude person you are saying I am being. I accept you disagree with me can you accept others may not agree with you?

 

Think you can hold it together long enough not to be so coarse at me? it is ok if you can't but I just thought I would ask...

 

How is any single word I said anything about reinforcing delusion? MAN, FUCKING LEARN SOME READING COMPREHENSION ALREADY. There's no reason not to be coarse to people who refuse to even try to understand what others are saying - like you do.

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Stress is our greatest threat to health these days. It's the catalyst for heart disease, immune response issues, and much more. Calming activities such as prayer and meditation can help lower stress levels. However, I think owning a pet such as a cat or dog does more for one's health and sense of well being. I'd have to look it up, but I don't care enough to go to the trouble. I do know that pet owners have lower cholesterol and triglyceride levels than those who don't have pets.

 

 

Laughing is a better stress remover than any religion or prayer one can say.

 

1 laugh I would take that any day over any amount of prayer.

 

it really is good medicine.

 

by the way to the second statement... so do people who eat almonds or peanuts everday in small amounts. Mine is lower by 60% than others my age and I attribute it to one handfull of peanuts a day for the last 15 years. I don't own pets.

 

Certainly one can say that laughing is a better stress remover than any religion or prayer, but ... that's just an assertion without any backing up. Besides, no one here is telling people to stop laughing and replace it with prayer instead. The most anyone's said in favour of prayer is basically that for some people, prayer can be a beneficial mental exercise, and adding what is said in the video that a community is a healthy thing, and prayer with a community might improve a bit on that. There is some research carried out on prayer done by Jews and Muslims, and it turns out that the communal prayer that is part of those religions seems to have some positive effects on the mind. 

 

Certainly research also says laughter is healthy. But no one ever posited this as an either-or situation, except maybe a handful of really crazy ultra-christians off in some crazily backwards sect somewhere.

 

 

You can assume I meant something other than the direct words I typed I can't really stop you.

 

I have watched prayer crush people and make them a lot worse than better in my life. it is a temp fix that in the end for anyone moving on past religion or the need to pray will just be more damaging.

 

no one leaving religion and saying to themselves this god I was praying to is not real then they keep praying to him/her/it is just going to hurt themselves in the long run.

 

There are healthier things to do over prayer. Not that prayer is unhealthy as a simple act but really what things do humans and religion make simple?

 

Again with the generalizations.

 

 

I think prayer is a lie and a joke. it helps no one, it reinforces delusion that hurts the human race and me personally. If you need more specifics my aunt and uncle prayed he would get better but refused to go see an oncologist... he fucking died from a cancer that they could have cured with almost no problem. prayed did loads of shit in that situation. Specific enough for you?

 

I have plenty more where that came from.

 

I hear what you are saying I just see it differently and that is ok for me.

 

Going and hitting golf balls is healthier in my opinion or sitting and looking at the sky on a nice day.

 

Still a generalization. And I don't think you're hearing what I am saying. I am not saying "ask big daddy in the sky to cure your ailments", I am saying "for some people, some people, not everyone, a daily prayer ritual can be psychologically helpful - especially if decoupled from beliefs like 'god exists' or even 'god helps' or 'prayer can cause miracles''. I hope you see the fucking difference, since it seems you're hellbent on not even trying to comprehend what I am saying. Which where I am from is considered quite rude!

 

 

and if that is how you see it great.

 

I say reinforcing delusion is damaging not helpful, I see you don't agree. I see your opinion and respectfully decline to accept it. I offer not counter other than my opinion and in the end we can agree to disagree and let the rest be decided by history. In the end people are going to do anything they want no matter how you or I feel.

 

I personally would rather not lie to myself to help myself. I would rather find alternatives if I need that medicine so to speak.

 

I would rather get drunk and fall down and laugh at myself than pray. if that it still to nonspecific there is really nothing more to say about it from my end.

 

you are attacking me personally and basically being the rude person you are saying I am being. I accept you disagree with me can you accept others may not agree with you?

 

Think you can hold it together long enough not to be so coarse at me? it is ok if you can't but I just thought I would ask...

 

How is any single word I said anything about reinforcing delusion? MAN, FUCKING LEARN SOME READING COMPREHENSION ALREADY. There's no reason not to be coarse to people who refuse to even try to understand what others are saying - like you do.

 

 

I think the only delusion here now is you. Thanks for the caps it really speaks volumes to your attitude and demeanor towards other members here. I don't agree with you so you attack me. thanks for that.

 

totally derailed this discussion with your need to attack me rather than just state your opinion or whatever. You didn't like mine so you attacked me. I don't agree with what you said or your interpretation of what I said.

 

your opinion is noted that is as far as I will go with this. Keep at it if you like.

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