1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 lol we are still on topic but not exactly. I didnt dodge anyting, I dont like hell who does nobody does. lets take an actual example becasue i think we getting confused here. I never witness to someone and brought up hell not once, in real life unless they asked me first, it is an underline beleif of mine if they ask me i wont avoid it, i will asnwer it directly..every single time. In my OP when you read it, i am reffering to the inentions of people who used to preach to me, i saw it as sincere and because they care about me and not because they hated me and found joyful pleasure in wanted me to go to hell Im not saying telling someone about hell is loving at all. i know you can be sincere but be sincerly wrong, i knew that before my conversion Im simply saying the intentions of those who talk about Gods love and how jesus died on the cross for our sins, is sincere in their belief and not cruel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted August 21, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted August 21, 2014 "A11A yu ar nto oyln in dager fo bing manpulted, yo re aktualy in teh prosecc of beng maniplated. Menepulatins in yor thogth processses aer cuasing a dilusoin thta maks itslef so wheell htat uoy re unalbe to see ti fro yoself. Yo hav a menial verus tha your are unawrae of. Fortunitly, they're is a ceur. Consdier yorslef warmed." Oh man...there goes my wine -- spewed all over the screen. It was well worth it! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 1AA1 I have already warned you that you are suffering from a delusion that is the result of mental manipulations This is EXACTLY my point If i am unaware of this delusion you speak of you are doing the LOVING thing by warning me right? yes or no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 when you warn people it is loving but if i do it, im a jerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seven77 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 i think we are talking about the wrong thing here......im not encouraging them to fear it, im not even talking explicitly about hell anymore im talking about INTENTIONS, my assertion was that it is possible to have good intention about talking to people about something even if they dont know it exists liekd angers of drunk driving, i may know they dangers but they may not What is an assertion? --a positive statement or declaration, often without support or reason You are making a positive statement: Hell exists. You are also making a positive declaration: it is my duty to tell other about the "danger" of Hell. You have been told that your positions are unreasonable due to being illogical, nonsensical, and based upon ancient mythology. Still you persist in your faulty and absurd assertions. When asked to provide support for your assertions (claims, hypothesis, scenario, case, whatever you call it), you want to change your position to one of intent. You intend to do a "good" thing by warning others of the dangers of drunk driving (Hell). You claim that your intention needs no support. It is just and right, and that we should all accept it "just cuz!" However, your position falls apart before intent begins to matter. Your first assertion is faulty and without reason nor support. You cannot provide any logic to prove your point nor can you demonstrate your position in a factual manner. You don't have any supporting evidence to back your claim of the reality of Hell up either. If Hell isn't true, then the threat/danger posed by its existence is false. <<<<<< This is what you fail to understand. This is why your reasoning is flawed, faulty, and full of FAIL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 21, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted August 21, 2014 im talking about INTENTIONS Intentions be damned. The road to hell and all that.... Horrible things are done with good intentions on a daily basis; refusing medical treatment for a child based on religious grounds, beating your wife because the Koran says it's beneficial, introducing the joys of heroin to a friend, indoctrinating your children into Scientology, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I remember how I felt when people try to evangelize ME well, now being on the other side I have a better understanding, We don’t talk to strangers because we like the thought of telling strangers they’re going to Hell; we do it because we’re completely terrified that they will go there.I agree some people need better methods, if you cannot say the truth in LOVE then do not say the truth at all, but leaving people alone is not loving. Atheists don’t come to your door because they don’t believe anything is wrong.Thats why i didnt do anything when I was one, why would I? MOST Christians are very uncomfortable witnessing, it’s selfless, not selfish, to talk with someone because you believe they are going to hell. “How rude, this person keeps yelling at me about trains. Leave me alone, I’m trying to sleep here on these tracks…”Love breaks all barriers and love changes hearts. Love changes lives. We can’t just tell people we care about them we have to act out our love. People dont really care how much you KNOW they only want to know how much you CARE. We need to meet people and understand them first. In real life, I don’t even let people know I am a Christian until we share some deep conversations about each others lives (unless they specifically ask me). I’ve realized how clueless I was (and maybe still am) about relating to people who aren’t like me. It’s easy for those of us raised in Christian homes/environments to misunderstand how the rest of the world sees us and life in general. If i make friends I make it very clear from the outset that this relationship is not didctated on the other person accepting Jesus, and maintain the relationship even if the change of heart never happens we shouldnt reject people because of their religious status sometiems i think in fact why classify people as Christians and Non-Christians. Why not just classify people as individuals? Im not perfect i still make mistakes, im sorry if i offend people with anything that i say or do or if you feel i insult you or disrespect you, that is never or, ever will BE my intention. I vow to make amends without hesistation if someone brings it to my attention, I just get tired of fighting, I know people got beef with me but Why cant take that beef and make some steak and add some some A1 Steaksauce on it? be chill relax all get to know each other ya know? 1AA1 my heart aches when I read this. Really. My heart aches for you. Because you put a burden on yourself that has never been asked of you, not even by the God of your holy book. Or can you tell me one single verse in the bible where Jesus says: Go, tell your friends about hell so they will come to me? Did he not say to love one another and by your love for each other the world will see that you have been with him? Now: To go tell people about God because you fear them to go to hell is fear based behavior. It too is hurting people. You know why? Because it is no real interest in them. If you only befriend me because at some point you want to tell me about your believes and hope I will be open to listen and might get saved, that means you have no real interest in me as a person. Actually this kind of evangelization has been the approach of the church I have been going to. We even had fun parties at our small groups that had nothing to do with church except the people who brought their friends where believers. No preaching, no christian music, no christian talk. There was beer, people where smoking on the balcony, there was food, and some smoked pot. The sole purpose of those parties was, for non christians to see that christians where cool folks. Like them. Only they had found Jesus...it was not particularly forced on us but it was told that we should have a list of three non believing friends. The idea was to pray for them, to be friends to them and to invite them to Church events like the party I just mentioned and then later on to Church. Believe me, the Church I have been to is one of its own. I have found no comparison even though they looked for their ideas all around the world. Now I always had a problem with that list thing that has been called VIP-livestyle. Because they also where like: if someone you pray for and keep up a friendship and all does not convert over the years and it looks like they probably will not convert ever, move on to someone else...yep. Because your time on this earth is limited and you want to save as many people as you can. No? So I always felt like a phony doing this list thing. Because I thought either you are friends or you are not. I mean, lets assume you pray for someone, befriend this person, build up a meaningful relationship and then this person converts? The same thing would apply to this person as it applies to the one who will never convert. You of course will keep this person in your circle of friends. But now that he has made it in, there is no need to give him special attention. Now you move on to the next one because you want to save more people... So now I have a serious question for you 1AA1. We assume there is a God and he has a son Jesus. Also there is the Holy Spirit. And there are humans. You. But there is NO HELL and there is NO HEAVEN either. Under this circumstances, what is your faith worth? Will you keep believing in God? If so, what is your motivation? Is your faith strong enough to exist without a promise of a paradise waiting and a hell looming? Will you still go and feel the urge to tell others to find God the way you do now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Seven77 perhaps you all fail to understand and didnt read my OP BEFORE CONVERSION, i am saying the same thing you are saying now as i did 5 years ago. I felt it was selfish and false warning beforehand too. Nothing new hell didnt exist to me so anybody preaching to be was about as useless as a paper boat. Now after my conversion i speak to people about it that ask me but i dont actively preach it at people or TO people at all none whatsover not unelss they ask. Do You think i like telling people something uncomfortable? do you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Seven77 perhaps you all fail to understand and didnt read my OP BEFORE CONVERSION, i am saying the same thing you are saying now as i did 5 years ago. I felt it was selfish and false warning beforehand too. Nothing new hell didnt exist to me so anybody preaching to be was about as useless as a paper boat. Now after my conversion i speak to people about it that ask me but i dont actively preach it at people or TO people at all none whatsover not unelss they ask. Do You think i like telling people something uncomfortable? do you think lol. I guess you forget we have been where you are and have said and believed all that you are saying and believing now...and like you we have tried different approaches. And as you say it was not about hell...it was about people finding God...but yeah, of course hell is part of the deal... I have a serious question for you 1AA1. We assume there is a God and he has a son Jesus. Also there is the Holy Spirit. And there are humans. You. But there is NO HELL and there is NO HEAVEN either. Under this circumstances, what is your faith worth? Will you keep believing in God? If so, what is your motivation? Is your faith strong enough to exist without a promise of a paradise waiting and a hell looming? Will you still go and feel the urge to tell others to find God the way you do now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 21, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted August 21, 2014 We'll understand each other better once you deconvert. Don't forget, we were all born without religious beliefs. Subsequently some were taught Christianity, some Islam, others Buddhism and so forth. We have taken your journey, you have not yet taken ours. You can't compare pre-conversion nonbelief with the reasoned disbelief of one who has experienced Christianity and moved on past it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Thanks moanerina i appreciate your concern for that you get to experience me using my first quote button yay!! Now: To go tell people about God because you fear them to go to hell is fear based behavior. It too is hurting people. You know why? Because it is no real interest in them. If you only befriend me because at some point you want to tell me about your believes and hope I will be open to listen and might get saved, that means you have no real interest in me as a person.Actually this kind of evangelization has been the approach of the church I have been going to. Thats why i said this in my AFTER CONVERSION People dont really care how much you KNOW they only want to know how much you CARE. We need to meet people and understand them first. In real life, I don’t even let people know I am a Christian until we share some deep conversations about each others lives (unless they specifically ask me). I’ve realized how clueless I was (and maybe still am) about relating to people who aren’t like me. It’s easy for those of us raised in Christian homes/environments to misunderstand how the rest of the world sees us and life in general. If i make friends I make it very clear from the outset that this relationship is not didctated on the other person accepting Jesus, and maintain the relationship even if the change of heart never happens we shouldnt reject people because of their religious status sometiems i think in fact why classify people as Christians and Non-Christians. Why not just classify people as individuals? TO answer your question that is a unique question, the whole purpose why Jesus came down was because we broke Gods law and Hell was actually inteneded for the devil not humans. But after we broke we broke Gods law we are destined for hell until jesus paid our price so that we wouldnt have to that is Good news not bad. But in order for there to be no heave and no hell Then that means we would have never broken Gods law adam and eve and we all would have lives amazing lives no war no bitterness only love forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I agree some people need better methods, if you cannot say the truth in LOVE then do not say the truth at all, but leaving people alone is not loving. Yes it is. But if you don't have evidence then you can't know that you have the truth. Calling something truth because you wish it was true is dishonest. See how Christians get it all backwards? MOST Christians are very uncomfortable witnessing, it’s selfless, not selfish, to talk with someone because you believe they are going to hell. “How rude, this person keeps yelling at me about trains. Leave me alone, I’m trying to sleep here on these tracks…”Love breaks all barriers and love changes hearts. Love changes lives. We can’t just tell people we care about them we have to act out our love. This is Christian brainwashing. Up is down. Down is up. Bad is good. Good is bad. They are not doing it out of love. They are convincing themselves that doing something rude out of indoctrination is doing it out of love. If i make friends I make it very clear from the outset that this relationship is not didctated on the other person accepting Jesus, and maintain the relationship even if the change of heart never happens we shouldnt reject people because of their religious status sometiems i think in fact why classify people as Christians and Non-Christians. It is unfortunate that you even bring it up. Why not have friendships that are just friendships and not worry about beliefs? Imagine you meet somebody and they say let's be pals. I will still be your fried even if you eat potato products. Wait, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 YEY 1AA1 has figured out what the quotes button actually is for...congrats! TO answer your question that is a unique question, the whole purpose why Jesus came down was because we broke Gods law and Hell was actually inteneded for the devil not humans. But after we broke we broke Gods law we are destined for hell until jesus paid our price so that we wouldnt have to that is Good news not bad. But in order for there to be no heave and no hell Then that means we would have never broken Gods law adam and eve and we all would have lives amazing lives no war no bitterness only love forever OK. Again. Just assume. There is no Heaven and there is no Hell involved in the tale. Just assume. Do you see a need to hold on to your believes? Do you see a need to help others to believe too? If so, why? Would you be a believer, would this Jesus and this God be appealing to you, would you want to know them the way you want to know them now...if you knew for sure there is no heaven and no hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 its like saying assume i am not real and try to think lol, but sure lets assume it doesnt exist then Jesus didnt come down to save us from anything, we would have never broke Gods law. So we again i mentioned in last post if that was the case then that means we would have never broken Gods law adam and eve and we all would have lives amazing lives no war no bitterness only love forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 we would be living like now but no sicksness famines or dieses no greedy people no anger no hate no prejudice it would be a perfect world and everyone would love God because they want to on their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 its like saying assume i am not real and try to think lol, but sure lets assume it doesnt exist then Jesus didnt come down to save us from anything, we would have never broke Gods law. So we again i mentioned in last post if that was the case then that means we would have never broken Gods law adam and eve and we all would have lives amazing lives no war no bitterness only love forever So basically what you say is this: If there was no heaven and no hell (and yes even if people screwed up this could be a possibility because I mean...God is God, he has ways and why does he need a jesus offer for that? But that is a whole other conversation I don't intend to have here) a relationship with God is meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 we would be living like now but no sicksness famines or dieses no greedy people no anger no hate no prejudice it would be a perfect world and everyone would love God because they want to on their own Funny you say that because I just re-watched this one and really, it cracks me up every time I see it: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seven77 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Seven77 perhaps you all fail to understand and didnt read my OP BEFORE CONVERSION, i am saying the same thing you are saying now as i did 5 years ago. I felt it was selfish and false warning beforehand too. Nothing new hell didnt exist to me so anybody preaching to be was about as useless as a paper boat. Now after my conversion i speak to people about it that ask me but i dont actively preach it at people or TO people at all none whatsover not unelss they ask. Do You think i like telling people something uncomfortable? do you thinkI read your story. Do not assume that you and I share any commonalities. Do not assume that I ever believed in Hell. Do not assume that I give one gram of fuck about what make you uncomfortable. Hell doesn't exist. I can find Christians that will say things like "Hell is eternal separation from God." and "Hell is not a real place." In fact, my former church had people in it that preached and taught people these things! Even those who mutually share the same God delusion as you don't always share the belief in a literal Hell. Yet you want to call me out, and call attention to your pathetic anecdotal non-evidence of your life before you came to Christ or whatever. Like your testimony carries some sort of fucking weight. YOU WILLINGLY CONTINUE ON IN OBSTINATELY OBTUSE BANALITY DESPITE VIGOROUS OPPOSITION. Yet you still wonder why we aren't caving to your whims, why no one is nodding in solemn agreement with your half-baked, garbled, weak attempts at apologetics. Plea to emotion. Present as many anecdotes as you wish. You won't change minds nor will you reach hearts here. We've all been "on fire" at various points. We all once believed in the Trinity, thought about Hell, confessed sins, prayed, memorized scripture, etc. IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING OF PROVABLE VALUE TO SHARE, FREAKING SHARE IT ALREADY. Otherwise, move the fuck on. Shake the dust from your feet and quit being a semi-literate Christ-troll. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted August 21, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted August 21, 2014 1AA1 I have already warned you that you are suffering from a delusion that is the result of mental manipulations This is EXACTLY my point If i am unaware of this delusion you speak of you are doing the LOVING thing by warning me right? yes or no The difference is that your delusion exists and everyone here can see the evidence of it. Hell, on the other hand, does not exist and you cannot provide evidence of it. So, yes, while I wouldn't call my lack of patience with you "loving", it is at least less "hateful" than needlessly scaring people about an afterlife that simply isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Seven77 if you HAD read my story you will know eveything you said about me is about as wrong as the criminal who called the police to report that someone stole his weed. Look at your post, re read it again and see how contradictory it is, look at you telling me what to do, and then get mad if someone tells YOU what to do. Then you try to scare me with a bunch of words in CAPS?? thinks thats suppose to scare me? haha Man where all the MEAN ATheists at these people here are too soft and too nice of insults, when you actually learn how to to mock or belittle THEN come talk to me, otherwise im just yawning myself to death. If i meet you in person i would talk to you and you wouldnt even know im a christian that i can guarantee it. in fact im going to your hosue right now. see you in a few. Anyway i dont go run around screaming HELL i talk to people like a casual individuals and Hell is not one of the topics its their hobbies and what they like to do for fun, genuien interests. Thats how i even have some Atheists friends now, who i knew before and after my conversion. Online we bring up a variety of topics for discussion in real life people usualy stick with a few at a time unless there is a big group. Question real life are you shy? or are you open? Do you use the internet to vent because you cant do it in real life? IF the government hooked up wires to your head to test out a new technology to that can broadcast thoughts on a TV screen, if they broadcasted it to the whole world, do you think the images people will see will make them smile? I dont have time to appeal to emotion, we have to steal with what comports with reality and truth logic and reason oh thats rigth you didnt know christians can use that? even the bible itself says the heart is fickle. We need to lead our heart not follow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 21, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted August 21, 2014 Man where all the MEAN ATheists at these people here are too soft and too nice of insults, when you actually learn how to to mock or belittle THEN come talk to me, otherwise im just yawning myself to death. Don't tempt The Lord Thy Mod. Where are all the mean atheists? The question is, where are all the intelligent, educated, thoughtful, logical, rational Christians? Frolicking with the unicorns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 moanerina a relationship wouldnt be meaningless if love existed in a world without pain or suffering relationship would probably be even mroe fulffilling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Florduh I seen you in a facebook page. I know who you are.....is this the part when you run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 21, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted August 21, 2014 Florduh I seen you in a facebook page. I know who you are.....is this the part when you run? Why should I run? Are you threatening me? If you're on facebook you should send me a friend request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 1AA1 ... To give you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you did not understand my warning, as it was written in clear, articulate English. Allow me to translate it into your language: "A11A yu ar nto oyln in dager fo bing manpulted, yo re aktualy in teh prosecc of beng maniplated. Menepulatins in yor thogth processses aer cuasing a dilusoin thta maks itslef so wheell htat uoy re unalbe to see ti fro yoself. Yo hav a menial verus tha your are unawrae of. Fortunitly, they're is a ceur. Consdier yorslef warmed." Prof, I don't think he got it... But I got my dose of endorphins for the day. lol Human i got it, He speaks my language. iI was just busy responding to posts at the time but now that i have SILENCED my opponets, now i can respond. it was a classic. See People with humor thats what we need to see. A11A you are not only in danger of being manipulated, you are actually in the process of being manipulated.----- aah crap cant finish the rest Dang my head hurts, NOOOWW i see your paiiinnN!!! I know have a newly Evolved Language Cthcdmbd Hr Trdkdrr!! You havent evolved yet to see what i see Muwahaha actually speaking of evolution Take a look at the next humans http://blog.newegg.com/transhumanists-pushing-stage-evolution/ http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/152240-what-is-transhumanism-or-what-does-it-mean-to-be-human Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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