moanareina Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 moanerina a relationship wouldnt be meaningless if love existed in a world without pain or suffering relationship would probably be even mroe fulffilling lol. OK, lets go there again. Assume the story would have been slightly different. Assume there has been original sin like the one of Adam and Eve. There have been all the consequences (like hate, murder, being unkind to others etc.). But. Also assume Jesus came to die on the cross and all. Then assume HELL does not exist and HEAVEN does not exist either. Just assume. Assume that consequences of sin is annihilation (you cease to exist when you die). Assume that the offering of Jesus has no other meaning then letting humans know God is not mad at them. Just assume. Would you want to follow this God and if so why? Would you feel the urge to tell other people of your God and if so why? If not why not? And please assume and give me an answer to my question instead of a: oh if men never sinned it would all be happy dappy fluffy bunny peaceful and great lala talk. By the way, have you watched the video? And there is still a question waiting for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Then I have another question that goes into the stuff about friendship and telling people about God because of the thinking they go to hell if you won't... You say you become friends with someone for being friends sake. So if you get to know a Christian and you get to know a non Christian at the same time and they are equally nice. They also share equal interests with you. Now they both ask you on the same day by text that comes in at the same time for a private talk because they feel you are a good guy they can trust and have need someone to talk to. Unfortunately on that day your time is limited so you have to decide who you will spend your time with. Who would it be and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 unfrotuantyl i cannot watch that video at work i have to wait until i can sneak time in at home been working overtime 6days a week. and sorry you dont believe me about how my humor is a not a defense, your opinion so cant convince you otherwise, I relate to some atheists better than christians, so there is nothing to be defensive ABOUT in the first place but hey you can believe whay you like i wont stop you. this also asnwers your second questionpretty simply, too many christians hang out with their own kind and then they wonder why they feel attacked or feel a simpel disagreement is persecution. We need to hang out with other people otherwise how else could we know. I covered this in my OP after conversion saying we need to see the other side. i would talk and hang out with the non christian friend. Jesus di the same thing and the pharissees got mad at him....why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 I find it strange people didnt talk about my before conversion...like AT ALL. wait i think one person did, but iits hilarious i dont even know why there was no real comments on it about what they thought about it. Did my BEFORE conversion relatable, did it suck, was it boring? idk there was hardly any feedback. the AFter covnersion people soaked it up like a spunge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Your personal experiences don't mean anything to me. I'm not hostile about it, I just think it's pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I find it strange people didnt talk about my before conversion...like AT ALL. wait i think one person did, but iits hilarious i dont even know why there was no real comments on it about what they thought about it. Did my BEFORE conversion relatable, did it suck, was it boring? idk there was hardly any feedback. the AFter covnersion people soaked it up like a spunge Why do you find this strange? You didn't bother to explain, in either part of your story, why you actually believe(d) what you believe(d). Your reasoning is a mystery to us all. What you gave us instead is an account of your personal experiences. Such an account is subjective to say the least, and is hardly convincing of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I find it strange people didnt talk about my before conversion...like AT ALL. wait i think one person did, but iits hilarious i dont even know why there was no real comments on it about what they thought about it. Did my BEFORE conversion relatable, did it suck, was it boring? idk there was hardly any feedback. the AFter covnersion people soaked it up like a spunge Perhaps you, or your professed beliefs, are not as important as you think. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 you do realize there is a difference between before conversion and after conversion right? one of them i use stock questions and answers the same as you guys they way i thought and acted as an Atheist you should relate to it, sure not all Atheists think alike, pfft i know tht trust me i see a vast difference in this very post. I just found it interesting there was only bad things to say about my After conversion but none about my before conversion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 you do realize there is a difference between before conversion and after conversion right? one of them i use stock questions and answers the same as you guys they way i thought and acted as an Atheist you should relate to it, sure not all Atheists think alike, pfft i know tht trust me i see a vast difference in this very post. I just found it interesting there was only bad things to say about my After conversion but none about my before conversion That may be because you didn't explain anything at all about why you were an atheist. Personally, I can't relate to much of anything in your "before conversion" story. As I said before, you seem to me to have been a naive atheist just as you now seem to be a naive Christian. But feel free to show me that I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 you do realize there is a difference between before conversion and after conversion right? one of them i use stock questions and answers the same as you guys they way i thought and acted as an Atheist you should relate to it, sure not all Atheists think alike, pfft i know tht trust me i see a vast difference in this very post. I just found it interesting there was only bad things to say about my After conversion but none about my before conversion I'll repeat what I said: Perhaps you, or your professed beliefs, are not as important as you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Priceless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExCBooster Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I find it strange people didnt talk about my before conversion...like AT ALL. wait i think one person did, but iits hilarious i dont even know why there was no real comments on it about what they thought about it. Did my BEFORE conversion relatable, did it suck, was it boring? idk there was hardly any feedback. the AFter covnersion people soaked it up like a spunge Dude, I DID talk, almost exclusively, about what you reported about your life before you converted, and how it compares to my experience, and how this anecdotal approach is problematic for your argument. I thought that my post on the topic was fairly straightforward. Why do you care so much if your before conversion story is relateable or boring? I'm asking you first to show me how it's relevant to the truth. I don't care if it's boring, I care if it's solid evidence for the point you're trying to make. If you're going to convince people, you need a firm grip on what it is they consider good evidence. Entertainment value isn't one of these things. Plenty of things that are relateable or entertaining are false. That's why we go to big, loud, Summer blockbuster movies. They're entertaining - fake but fun. Just thought I'd point out that it looks bad for your argument, to get on your high horse about people ignoring your points, when you go on to ignore the counter-points, as if they didn't even happen. If you want me to critique it like it was fiction, however, in short, no, in light of this most recent post, I don't find your "before" testimonial convincing at all - if you want people to think that you can reason through things logically, and used to "before conversion" at least show an awareness of what makes a good, strong, logical argument. Now, as for the conversion itself, I infer from how touchy you are about it that you seem to want us to think that something magical happened, which is mystical, and beyond mortal comprehension, that turned you Christian. However - and I think this does bear repeating from my previous post - this is not unique to Christianity. Seriously, I know people from many religions, and they all have their own testimonials. Some of which are mutually contradictory, and so cannot all be true. A testimonial alone is not going to prove anything. Please address this problem. This is why you need independent proof, rather than personal experience. If you have so much experience with logic and forming reasoned arguments, why don't you know this already? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted August 23, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted August 23, 2014 A11A haev yu evr consdidered thta what your thhink abuot yourslef issnt aktually what youre'e relly like?Do uoy thing is possblie tha youre dont sea yurslef as cleerly if yo thinf? and meybe we du? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 unfrotuantyl i cannot watch that video at work i have to wait until i can sneak time in at home been working overtime 6days a week. and sorry you dont believe me about how my humor is a not a defense, your opinion so cant convince you otherwise, I relate to some atheists better than christians, so there is nothing to be defensive ABOUT in the first place but hey you can believe whay you like i wont stop you. this also asnwers your second questionpretty simply, too many christians hang out with their own kind and then they wonder why they feel attacked or feel a simpel disagreement is persecution. We need to hang out with other people otherwise how else could we know. I covered this in my OP after conversion saying we need to see the other side. i would talk and hang out with the non christian friend. Jesus di the same thing and the pharissees got mad at him....why is that? Now lets assume you have made a friend and he converts due to your friendship. Then you have another friend who has not yet converted but he might if you spend some more time with him. You met him some days ago, the other one you know for maybe two months and consider him a friend. They both send you a text at the same time to have a private talk with you that day and you have only limited time so you need to take a decision. Who will you spend time with and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 moanerina a relationship wouldnt be meaningless if love existed in a world without pain or suffering relationship would probably be even mroe fulffilling lol. OK, lets go there again. Assume the story would have been slightly different. Assume there has been original sin like the one of Adam and Eve. There have been all the consequences (like hate, murder, being unkind to others etc.). But. Also assume Jesus came to die on the cross and all. Then assume HELL does not exist and HEAVEN does not exist either. Just assume. Assume that consequences of sin is annihilation (you cease to exist when you die). Assume that the offering of Jesus has no other meaning then letting humans know God is not mad at them. Just assume. Would you want to follow this God and if so why? Would you feel the urge to tell other people of your God and if so why? If not why not? And please assume and give me an answer to my question instead of a: oh if men never sinned it would all be happy dappy fluffy bunny peaceful and great lala talk. By the way, have you watched the video? And there is still a question waiting for you. And this question is still waiting for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 unfrotuantyl i cannot watch that video at work i have to wait until i can sneak time in at home been working overtime 6days a week. and sorry you dont believe me about how my humor is a not a defense, your opinion so cant convince you otherwise, I relate to some atheists better than christians, so there is nothing to be defensive ABOUT in the first place but hey you can believe whay you like i wont stop you. this also asnwers your second questionpretty simply, too many christians hang out with their own kind and then they wonder why they feel attacked or feel a simpel disagreement is persecution. We need to hang out with other people otherwise how else could we know. I covered this in my OP after conversion saying we need to see the other side. i would talk and hang out with the non christian friend. Jesus di the same thing and the pharissees got mad at him....why is that? But it doesn't even make sense - you are arguing from an inferior moral standpoint. Scale it down it down for a second. You are in house that's on fire. I'm your best friend, supposedly, and watching outside. I can either call out to you to warn you about the danger, or put the fire out. Which one is morally superior? Responsibility is only required if evil ( undesirable outcomes ) are permitted to exist. The free will argument is thus total shit - if a good ( causing desirable outcomes ) and all powerful god existed, evil wouldn't exist. Evil does, so the philosophy is incomplete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 moanerina a relationship wouldnt be meaningless if love existed in a world without pain or suffering relationship would probably be even mroe fulffilling lol. OK, lets go there again. Assume the story would have been slightly different. Assume there has been original sin like the one of Adam and Eve. There have been all the consequences (like hate, murder, being unkind to others etc.). But. Also assume Jesus came to die on the cross and all. Then assume HELL does not exist and HEAVEN does not exist either. Just assume. Assume that consequences of sin is annihilation (you cease to exist when you die). Assume that the offering of Jesus has no other meaning then letting humans know God is not mad at them. Just assume. Would you want to follow this God and if so why? Would you feel the urge to tell other people of your God and if so why? If not why not? And please assume and give me an answer to my question instead of a: oh if men never sinned it would all be happy dappy fluffy bunny peaceful and great lala talk. By the way, have you watched the video? And there is still a question waiting for you. And this question is still waiting for you. i answered it i thought, i would spend time with the none christian, 7times over because we need to relate to people outside of christianity. petty simple, maybe im missing something in what you are asking if so i apologize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 I find it strange people didnt talk about my before conversion...like AT ALL. wait i think one person did, but iits hilarious i dont even know why there was no real comments on it about what they thought about it. Did my BEFORE conversion relatable, did it suck, was it boring? idk there was hardly any feedback. the AFter covnersion people soaked it up like a spunge Dude, I DID talk, almost exclusively, about what you reported about your life before you converted, and how it compares to my experience, and how this anecdotal approach is problematic for your argument. I thought that my post on the topic was fairly straightforward. Why do you care so much if your before conversion story is relateable or boring? I'm asking you first to show me how it's relevant to the truth. I don't care if it's boring, I care if it's solid evidence for the point you're trying to make. If you're going to convince people, you need a firm grip on what it is they consider good evidence. Entertainment value isn't one of these things. Plenty of things that are relateable or entertaining are false. That's why we go to big, loud, Summer blockbuster movies. They're entertaining - fake but fun. Just thought I'd point out that it looks bad for your argument, to get on your high horse about people ignoring your points, when you go on to ignore the counter-points, as if they didn't even happen. If you want me to critique it like it was fiction, however, in short, no, in light of this most recent post, I don't find your "before" testimonial convincing at all - if you want people to think that you can reason through things logically, and used to "before conversion" at least show an awareness of what makes a good, strong, logical argument. Now, as for the conversion itself, I infer from how touchy you are about it that you seem to want us to think that something magical happened, which is mystical, and beyond mortal comprehension, that turned you Christian. However - and I think this does bear repeating from my previous post - this is not unique to Christianity. Seriously, I know people from many religions, and they all have their own testimonials. Some of which are mutually contradictory, and so cannot all be true. A testimonial alone is not going to prove anything. Please address this problem. This is why you need independent proof, rather than personal experience. If you have so much experience with logic and forming reasoned arguments, why don't you know this already? If you read im my comment it says OH i think one person did but there sure my after conversion can be compared to other religions and cast aside like the wind. But my before conversion at the time i felt was truth, as an Atheist i felt Atheism was the way to go and where everyone should be because of the lack of belief in God i thought was the best explanation for the world. This to you is TRUE otherwise you would be a christian like myself We DO relate in my before conversion whether you wanted to or not. Atheism is superior because it relies on logic reason and science, this was my mantra are you saying this is false? Atheists dont feel superior people thesmelf, they are like everyone else they are not cocky people more humble than some actually, I know because i was myself! people talking to me like i didnt used to be one and you guys think im talking to YOU like i didnt knwo you used to be a christian. Why do you think i put things in question form so much instead? Atheists do however feel they use logic rationale and reasona dn science more than christians. Again im not talking about my christianty a tthis particular moment, or why i converted or the truth of it we all know im never going to be able to prove a reason that will be accepted by the scientific community. No one has presented a shred of anything in 2000years what makes you think i Can? Thats i why i am talking about my BEFORE conversion only at this point, Im talking about me being an Atheist and how i thought what i thought was True im talking about Atheism and the viability of its position peopel said they coudlnt relate to me, then that would mead they dont relate with themself as an Atheist seeing how i WAS one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 "No one has presented a shred of anything in 2000years what makes you think i Can?" We know you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 We DO relate in my before conversion whether you wanted to or not. Atheism is superior because it relies on logic reason and science, this was my mantra are you saying this is false? Atheists dont feel superior people thesmelf, they are like everyone else they are not cocky people more humble than some actually, I know because i was myself! people talking to me like i didnt used to be one and you guys think im talking to YOU like i didnt knwo you used to be a christian. Why do you think i put things in question form so much instead? Atheists do however feel they use logic rationale and reasona dn science more than christians. Again im not talking about my christianty a tthis particular moment, or why i converted or the truth of it we all know im never going to be able to prove a reason that will be accepted by the scientific community. No one has presented a shred of anything in 2000years what makes you think i Can? Thats i why i am talking about my BEFORE conversion only at this point, Im talking about me being an Atheist and how i thought what i thought was True im talking about Atheism and the viability of its position peopel said they coudlnt relate to me, then that would mead they dont relate with themself as an Atheist seeing how i WAS one. I'm still not sure that you realize what an atheist actually is. You persist in speaking of "Atheism" as if it is a belief system. It isn't. It is a position on one particular issue. That's all. Atheists do not need to have anything in common. Atheists do not need to rely on logic, reason and science. Atheists do not need to agree with one another on anything except for one trivial thing: that they are not theists. To put it another way, for you to say "I was an atheist, therefore you should be able to relate to my story!" would be rather like me saying "I don't play in the NFL, therefore you can relate to my career". 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 exactly you should relate to the fact that i was not a theist. Pretty cut and dry. Everything of course They can be different, but im reffering to the ones that actually do use logic reason and science. I understand the abiltiy of variety in Atheism in fact they can even believe in Ghosts but not God yet they are both supernatural, it wouldnt be contradictory per se, because of the pure definition of Atheism though that Atheist probably wouldnt be taken serious like a thiest because he believes in the unproven. Let me ask you this.....Can an Athiest exist without Theism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 moanerina a relationship wouldnt be meaningless if love existed in a world without pain or suffering relationship would probably be even mroe fulffilling lol. OK, lets go there again. Assume the story would have been slightly different. Assume there has been original sin like the one of Adam and Eve. There have been all the consequences (like hate, murder, being unkind to others etc.). But. Also assume Jesus came to die on the cross and all. Then assume HELL does not exist and HEAVEN does not exist either. Just assume. Assume that consequences of sin is annihilation (you cease to exist when you die). Assume that the offering of Jesus has no other meaning then letting humans know God is not mad at them. Just assume. Would you want to follow this God and if so why? Would you feel the urge to tell other people of your God and if so why? If not why not? And please assume and give me an answer to my question instead of a: oh if men never sinned it would all be happy dappy fluffy bunny peaceful and great lala talk. By the way, have you watched the video? And there is still a question waiting for you. And this question is still waiting for you. i answered it i thought, i would spend time with the none christian, 7times over because we need to relate to people outside of christianity. petty simple, maybe im missing something in what you are asking if so i apologize Sorry 1AA1 but if you would actually look at the question above you would see that the answer you gave now is to another question. So this one still remains unanswered. Then for the other question. So in another answer you said, you do not prioritize friendships over others due to the state of believe. Now you have stated twice that you do. So you say you would rather give your time to the unbeliever then the believer. So as soon as someone is in the boat so to speak, this friendship gets less interesting to you because the reason you make friends is to convert them...and once they are converted, you rather spend time with the unbelievers... Contradicting yourself is so easy, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Can you state your question clearly in 1 sentence because i thougth i answered it but i will try once again, well if you read my story again i said my friendship isnt dictated upon whether they believe or not, You asked me a question that required a binary response. Its like saying if someone asked me do i like anal sex or vaginal sex and if i say vaginal, then you respond with SEE SEE SEE you hate Anal....That is non sequitar. I simply said i rather get to know people other than my own, because i am not stuck up. This has nothing to do with conversion of the other eprson. I simpyl answered your binary question with a binary response. a or b. But jsut because i chose B doesnt mean dictate a phylisophical backlash against the opposite choice as i said many times that is not my job to convert peopel only God knwos the heart, we can be loving to them and respect them as an individual that is why i haev Atheist friends now Dont you think they would have left me long time ago if i was up their butt and around the corner about my beleifs? see if you can answer that question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 exactly you should relate to the fact that i was not a theist. Pretty cut and dry. Everything of course They can be different, but im reffering to the ones that actually do use logic reason and science. I understand the abiltiy of variety in Atheism in fact they can even believe in Ghosts but not God yet they are both supernatural, it wouldnt be contradictory per se, because of the pure definition of Atheism though that Atheist probably wouldnt be taken serious like a thiest because he believes in the unproven. Let me ask you this.....Can an Athiest exist without Theism? There is a difference between an atheist and an EX-CHRISTIAN atheist. You haven't been an ex-C atheist, so no, your experiences are not relatable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Can you state your question clearly in 1 sentence because i thougth i answered it but i will try once again, well if you read my story again i said my friendship isnt dictated upon whether they believe or not, You asked me a question that required a binary response. Its like saying if someone asked me do i like anal sex or vaginal sex and if i say vaginal, then you respond with SEE SEE SEE you hate Anal....That is non sequitar. I simply said i rather get to know people other than my own, because i am not stuck up. This has nothing to do with conversion of the other eprson. I simpyl answered your binary question with a binary response. a or b. But jsut because i chose B doesnt mean dictate a phylisophical backlash against the opposite choice as i said many times that is not my job to convert peopel only God knwos the heart, we can be loving to them and respect them as an individual that is why i haev Atheist friends now Dont you think they would have left me long time ago if i was up their butt and around the corner about my beleifs? see if you can answer that question OK, the hell question is still hanging and you can go back and read it. I worded it in pretty clear words and if there is a part you did not understand you can tell me which one it is. You still talking about my other question telling me you thought you had answered my question tells me, you have not read the question I quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts