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Why Are Some People So Goddamn Racist?


FreeThinkerNZ

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I was watching the TV news with a 20 year old xian family member.  

 

There was an item about $170m compensation paid to an indigenous tribe for historic wrongs against them including murdering several of their ancestors 150 years ago, stealing their land assets and consigning them to poverty, illness and low educational attainment.  IMO $170m is a token amount but nonetheless I am proud that some of my taxes are part of the state's apology to these people.  Typically the tribes invest the money in long term income streams and also social, health and education services to assist their people.

 

She who knows everything at 20 piped up and said it was sad to waste that amount of money on people just because of their race and the money could be better spent on something like disabled children for example.  Looking aghast, I pointed out that their family members had been murdered, to which she replied that it was a long time ago and they need to move on already.  So I mentioned the land theft and the ongoing poor treatment of the people but she was unmoved.  In the end I let it go for the sake of peace.

 

But I'm fucked off.  Why,  why, are racist people so fucking racist?  Is it ignorance?  Is it privilege?  What the hell is it?

 

Does religion dull the brain or something?

 

I'm just really sick of this conservative bigoted bullshit and needed to vent.

 

Seriously, if anyone can help me understand why people think like this, I'm all ears.

 

Thanks.

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So much repugnance. I will PM or post an official reply next week.

 

I don't think that this sort of ignorant arrogance is something that a rational mind can understand, truthfully.

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I hadn't realized this was an issue in NZ as well.  I guess I have mixed feelings about it here.  I have an African American coworker who works 2 cubicles over from me who can be quite vocal about these issues.  Most of the time I agree with him, but once he was going on about reparations and how he was "from the streets" when I know from previous conversations that his dad works for BMW; he somehow has enough capital to open his own restaurant and he is obviously more economically privileged than me.

 

I don't know quite what to make of all that, but I did find it kind of amusing.

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White South African here. When my religion went out the door any traces of racism I still had post democracy went right out with it. I blame indoctronation, ignorance, entitlement and lastly religion.

 

If it makes you feel any better, these people live in a scary world. There are homosexuals, atheists, black people, indian people, chinese people and white people of different christian denominations all walking and living among them. It must be the end times for god to have let things get so bad.

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If racist people weren't "so fucking racist", what WOULD they be?

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White South African here. When my religion went out the door any traces of racism I still had post democracy went right out with it. I blame indoctronation, ignorance, entitlement and lastly religion.

 

If it makes you feel any better, these people live in a scary world. There are homosexuals, atheists, black people, indian people, chinese people and white people of different christian denominations all walking and living among them. It must be the end times for god to have let things get so bad.

Thanks for that, it helps to remember how terrified they are of diversity.

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I have to be advocatus diaboli for one thing you mentioned FTNZ - the thing about the land theft may indeed not mean too much to someone who grew up in whatever new home the tribe now has. Aside from that though, mentioning the ongoing poor treatment at the latest, any person with any sense for ethics should not find it just okay. Whatever else they may think, "okay" is the single option that is not acceptable.

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If racist people weren't "so fucking racist", what WOULD they be?

 

They would be people.

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i have never understood racism, and now struggle when I see it.  It seems so 'unfair' and wrong to me, that people are judged on something like that. We are as a nation trying to make amends, nothing will change the past, but the re adress that is happening  actually goes a long way to healing the past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Waitangi_claims_and_settlements

 

Saying sorry, even about something that happened 150 years ago, is the right thing to do. The money settlements (alongside land and river) actually go a long way to give back control over lives and improve the lives of those affected.

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i have never understood racism, and now struggle when I see it.  It seems so 'unfair' and wrong to me, that people are judged on something like that. We are as a nation trying to make amends, nothing will change the past, but the re adress that is happening  actually goes a long way to healing the past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Waitangi_claims_and_settlements

 

Saying sorry, even about something that happened 150 years ago, is the right thing to do. The money settlements (alongside land and river) actually go a long way to give back control over lives and improve the lives of those affected.

Yeah it's beautiful to watch the ceremony they have where as many of the tribe that can, gather in front of their meeting house, and the government representative apologises to them for the wrongs done.  Then they can move forward together, according to the treaty their forebears signed in 1840.  I just saw a facebook post from a friend of mine who is a member of this particular tribe and they are really celebrating.  I like the fact that every tribe has used some of the money to provide health and social services that do a better job of reaching people than the mainstream services do.

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It's because they're morons

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When one is proud of ones skin color it usually follows one has scant else to be proud of. I hate racism in all incarnations.

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It is tribalism.  Race is completely subjective.

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It's the same situation in the US with the Native Americans. Cart 'em off to reservations and forget about them. "I wasn't there, I wasn't the one who oppressed them so why should I care" is usually the line of reasoning for not wanting to help out their community. Sadly, a lot of the institutionalized oppression continued here well into the 20th century, but again it's kind of out of sight out of mind for most people. 

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For the same reason you are. Just see your previous posts about muslims and islamic culture.

Newsflash - religion and race are different things.  People can criticise a religion without criticising a race.  I have never once made a negative comment about "muslims" or "islamic culture" - it is the fascist Islamic religion that I despise, not the people who follow it.

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I was watching the TV news with a 20 year old xian family member.  

 

There was an item about $170m compensation paid to an indigenous tribe for historic wrongs against them including murdering several of their ancestors 150 years ago, stealing their land assets and consigning them to poverty, illness and low educational attainment.  IMO $170m is a token amount but nonetheless I am proud that some of my taxes are part of the state's apology to these people.  Typically the tribes invest the money in long term income streams and also social, health and education services to assist their people.

 

She who knows everything at 20 piped up and said it was sad to waste that amount of money on people just because of their race and the money could be better spent on something like disabled children for example.  Looking aghast, I pointed out that their family members had been murdered, to which she replied that it was a long time ago and they need to move on already.  So I mentioned the land theft and the ongoing poor treatment of the people but she was unmoved.  In the end I let it go for the sake of peace.

 

But I'm fucked off.  Why,  why, are racist people so fucking racist?  Is it ignorance?  Is it privilege?  What the hell is it?

 

Does religion dull the brain or something?

 

I'm just really sick of this conservative bigoted bullshit and needed to vent.

 

Seriously, if anyone can help me understand why people think like this, I'm all ears.

 

Thanks.

FTNZ,

 

In the case of your family member, I think a lot of it is ignorance. She is young, and youth is generally and naturally self-centered and self-absorbed, to a large degree. If she is an otherwise decent person, then it likely isn't hatred. But it might be fear, especially if she has other insecurities.

 

Someone else suggested that racism is actually tribalism, a self-preservation behavior. Your family member is a fundamentalist Christian, which means she is a member of a social tribe. She embraces the tribal mythology and code in order to give her meaning, purpose, and preservation. Anything that doesn't conform to or cooperative directly with the tribe is perceived as a threat -- no matter how irrational or implausible the perception seems.

 

So, yes, fundamentalist religion dulls the senses, in that regard. But the bottom line is fear. When a person does not feel threatened, the worst they will feel indifference. The negative reaction is self-defense against a perceived threat. To react in a judgmental or antagonistic way seems to betray an underlying fear. And if the fear is not clearly defined in one's conscious thought, religion will define that fear for the person.

 

I understand this is especially frustrating for you, because it's coming from someone you love. You can't simply dismiss it. You want to understand it. I hope you find a way to tolerate it, and maybe even an open door for discussing it with her.

 

Peace,

Human

 

 

Thanks for this Human, very helpful.

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Guest ninurta

 

For the same reason you are. Just see your previous posts about muslims and islamic culture.

Newsflash - religion and race are different things.  People can criticise a religion without criticising a race.  I have never once made a negative comment about "muslims" or "islamic culture" - it is the fascist Islamic religion that I despise, not the people who follow it.

 

It is a race when people associate it with such. Most people when they think muslim, they think arab, pakistani, or Indonesian. They think of them in terms of race, much like black and white which also aren't "races" until they are made such. There's nothing about being black that ties them to a certain ethnicity.

 

If it weren't associated with a race, shit like this wouldn't happen:

http://nypost.com/2013/09/23/sikh-attacked-by-mob-thanks-good-samaritans/

 

A Sikh physician who was beaten by a mob that mistook him for a Muslim spoke to reporters about the  ordeal on Monday through his surgically re-wired jaw —  and thanked a group of good Samaritans in Harlem who got between him and his hate-filled attackers.

The only thing he has in common with any group of muslims is that he's pakistani and has a beard. Why else did they think he was muslim? He's not wearing anything identifiably muslim.

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For the same reason you are. Just see your previous posts about muslims and islamic culture.

 

Newsflash - religion and race are different things. People can criticise a religion without criticising a race. I have never once made a negative comment about "muslims" or "islamic culture" - it is the fascist Islamic religion that I despise, not the people who follow it.

It is a race when people associate it with such. Most people when they think muslim, they think arab, pakistani, or Indonesian. They think of them in terms of race, much like black and white which also aren't "races" until they are made such. There's nothing about being black that ties them to a certain ethnicity.

 

If it weren't associated with a race, shit like this wouldn't happen:

http://nypost.com/2013/09/23/sikh-attacked-by-mob-thanks-good-samaritans/

A Sikh physician who was beaten by a mob that mistook him for a Muslim spoke to reporters about the ordeal on Monday through his surgically re-wired jaw — and thanked a group of good Samaritans in Harlem who got between him and his hate-filled attackers.

 

The only thing he has in common with any group of muslims is that he's pakistani and has a beard. Why else did they think he was muslim? He's not wearing anything identifiably muslim.

So there are idiots who hate people just because they are muslin, or look it, or even come from certain countries.

This does not negate the fact that the religion, that pesky set of writings, and all the writings and practices that go with it, is harmful to people, and mainly to women.

Both the writings that christianity and Islam are based on are immoral, and encourage extremist behaviours.

 

It has nothing to do with "race", ethnicity, racism, prejudice etc, and everything to do with wanting freedom and equality for women.

 

Returning land and making repayments for past wrongs is putting a line in the sand and allows us as a nation to say,

Yes wrong was done, we acknowledge it, and put right what we can and will move forward together to make a better, inclusive nation for all our people.

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For the same reason you are. Just see your previous posts about muslims and islamic culture.

Newsflash - religion and race are different things.  People can criticise a religion without criticising a race.  I have never once made a negative comment about "muslims" or "islamic culture" - it is the fascist Islamic religion that I despise, not the people who follow it.

 

It is a race when people associate it with such. Most people when they think muslim, they think arab, pakistani, or Indonesian. They think of them in terms of race, much like black and white which also aren't "races" until they are made such. There's nothing about being black that ties them to a certain ethnicity.

 

If it weren't associated with a race, shit like this wouldn't happen:

http://nypost.com/2013/09/23/sikh-attacked-by-mob-thanks-good-samaritans/

 

A Sikh physician who was beaten by a mob that mistook him for a Muslim spoke to reporters about the  ordeal on Monday through his surgically re-wired jaw —  and thanked a group of good Samaritans in Harlem who got between him and his hate-filled attackers.

The only thing he has in common with any group of muslims is that he's pakistani and has a beard. Why else did they think he was muslim? He's not wearing anything identifiably muslim.

 

anti-islamic is not racist, never was, never will be

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Guest ninurta
This does not negate the fact that the religion, that pesky set of writings, and all the writings and practices that go with it, is harmful to people, and mainly to women.

Both the writings that christianity and Islam are based on are immoral, and encourage extremist behaviours.

 

It has nothing to do with "race", ethnicity, racism, prejudice etc, and everything to do with wanting freedom and equality for women.

 

Returning land and making repayments for past wrongs is putting a line in the sand and allows us as a nation to say,

Yes wrong was done, we acknowledge it, and put right what we can and will move forward together to make a better, inclusive nation for all our people.

 

How is it harmful to people? And how so women?

I disagree, I think that the religious texts are based on cultures that were well meant, but had some rather unproductive, and often times disturbingly wrong, ways of handling things. The immoral and extreme behaviors they cause, aren't far out from the immoral and extreme behaviors anything we in the modern west produce from our own worldviews absent of religion. O wait,... sorry, you're right... .I'm wrong.... I forgot that the west has the superior race and culture! All hail the Goddess of the West!

 

It really does have to do with race, and it really has nothing to do with how they treat women. It's the west's view that they have the right to dictate how others exist; or their specific supreme race/nation (whether that be America, Britain, etc... specifically).

 

There's so much wrong with what you said, I don't even know where to begin. The number of assumptions you make is astounding.

 

You know nothing of Islam. I guarantee if you make any criticisms of Islam specifically, it will apply to cultural differences specific to nationstates, most likely those torn up by war or poverty, or some monarchy whose culture was misogynistic long before Islam came to town.

 

anti-islamic is not racist, never was, never will be

 

 

That's all cool and all, but hating blacks by that same logic is the same, not racist. Want to know why? Because race doesn't exist, nobody is "black" by ethnicity, its a skin tone not a race. Nevermind that its because of the perception of "where someone comes from" is what's the cause, its not an ethnicity nor will it ever be. Its a color.

 

Or, you can negate my above point, and not just make claims. As anyone can do that.

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This does not negate the fact that the religion, that pesky set of writings, and all the writings and practices that go with it, is harmful to people, and mainly to women.

Both the writings that christianity and Islam are based on are immoral, and encourage extremist behaviours.

 

It has nothing to do with "race", ethnicity, racism, prejudice etc, and everything to do with wanting freedom and equality for women.

 

Returning land and making repayments for past wrongs is putting a line in the sand and allows us as a nation to say,

Yes wrong was done, we acknowledge it, and put right what we can and will move forward together to make a better, inclusive nation for all our people.

 

How is it harmful to people? And how so women?

I disagree, I think that the religious texts are based on cultures that were well meant, but had some rather unproductive, and often times disturbingly wrong, ways of handling things. The immoral and extreme behaviors they cause, aren't far out from the immoral and extreme behaviors anything we in the modern west produce from our own worldviews absent of religion. O wait,... sorry, you're right... .I'm wrong.... I forgot that the west has the superior race and culture! All hail the Goddess of the West!

 

It really does have to do with race, and it really has nothing to do with how they treat women. It's the west's view that they have the right to dictate how others exist; or their specific supreme race/nation (whether that be America, Britain, etc... specifically).

 

There's so much wrong with what you said, I don't even know where to begin. The number of assumptions you make is astounding.

 

You know nothing of Islam. I guarantee if you make any criticisms of Islam specifically, it will apply to cultural differences specific to nationstates, most likely those torn up by war or poverty, or some monarchy whose culture was misogynistic long before Islam came to town.

 

 

Or, you can negate my above point, and not just make claims. As anyone can do that.

 

 

 

hummm that was a very personal attack on me. Note my post, while replying to yours, did not make any of the kind of judgements about you as yours did about me.

I did not claim you 'know nothing', I did not say you were wrong, I just put my view point across.

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Guest ninurta

You claimed that it oppresses women, can you back that up? And what in what I stated counts as a personal attack? I never said you knew nothing. And you can't back your own claims. I can back up everything I'm saying.

 

If gender roles are what constitutes oppression, there are roles against both sexes. If you think the clothing restriction of having to wear a hijab is bad, you should ask muslim men about the financial restrictions placed on them. They're not allowed, not even if she works, to ask for the wife to contribute to the household financially, its his job to take care of his wife and kids. And be supportive of her if she wants to work, earn an education, etc... and use all her money on herself. But you don't hear feminists complain of sexism in Islam against men. Especially when they place huge expectations on men too. Just as much as they do women.

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You claimed that it oppresses women, can you back that up? And what in what I stated counts as a personal attack? I never said you knew nothing. And you can't back your own claims. I can back up everything I'm saying.

 

If gender roles are what constitutes oppression, there are roles against both sexes. If you think the clothing restriction of having to wear a hijab is bad, you should ask muslim men about the financial restrictions placed on them. They're not allowed, not even if she works, to ask for the wife to contribute to the household financially, its his job to take care of his wife and kids. And be supportive of her if she wants to work, earn an education, etc... and use all her money on herself. But you don't hear feminists complain of sexism in Islam against men. Especially when they place huge expectations on men too. Just as much as they do women.

 

You post was hostile. It certainly went over into uncalled for personal remarks at the very least.

Since you and I have never actually had a 'conversation'  here before, I found it inappropriate and, frankly, uncalled for.

so I called you on it. 

 

you did say I know nothing "You know nothing of Islam"  right there. How do you know what I know and what I do not know? How do you know what my qualifications are? How you do you know I know nothing about Islam?

 

Frankly, you cant and you dont. It was an uncalled for remark.

 

I will back up my claim when I have more time.

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This does not negate the fact that the religion, that pesky set of writings, and all the writings and practices that go with it, is harmful to people, and mainly to women.

Both the writings that christianity and Islam are based on are immoral, and encourage extremist behaviours.

 

It has nothing to do with "race", ethnicity, racism, prejudice etc, and everything to do with wanting freedom and equality for women.

 

Returning land and making repayments for past wrongs is putting a line in the sand and allows us as a nation to say,

Yes wrong was done, we acknowledge it, and put right what we can and will move forward together to make a better, inclusive nation for all our people.

 

How is it harmful to people? And how so women?

 

 

All the major religions are intensely patriarchal. Every one of them engages in the systematic devaluation of women, in the systematic exclusion of women from positions of authority.

Examples -Christian.

The catholic church has no female priests/Bishops/popes.

The Southern Baptists – they do not recognise women in leadership roles.

Both of these examples are where major religions limit women’s roles based on the how they read the bible.

Examples – what the bible says.

In the book of Genesis the very existence of women is depicted as a afterthought. The text then g ones to makes it clear that women are expected to be obedient and submissive to men. I can give hundreds of examples throughout the bible where women are clearly second to men.

But lets move on to Revelations, when it says women defile men.

So the first book of the bible has women as a afterthought, and the final book, has women as something that defiles men.

 

I disagree, I think that the religious texts are based on cultures that were well meant, but had some rather unproductive, and often times disturbingly wrong, ways of handling things.

 

 

They were based on primitive cultures. They do have some very disturbing things in them.  

 

The immoral and extreme behaviors they cause, aren't far out from the immoral and extreme behaviors anything we in the modern west produce from our own worldviews absent of religion.

 

           

Humm – the west has plenty of immoral actions to its name …..

 

O wait,... sorry, you're right... .I'm wrong.... I forgot that the west has the superior race and culture! All hail the Goddess of the West!

 

 

Really? Who said that? Not me. Do NOT ever presume you know what I think, or pretend with such dishonesty that your thoughts are mine.  I have not defended the ‘west’

 

 

It really does have to do with race, and it really has nothing to do with how they treat women. It's the west's view that they have the right to dictate how others exist; or their specific supreme race/nation (whether that be America, Britain, etc... specifically).

 

 

           

Since I am as anti Christianity as I am anti -Islam, I don’t see how you can say that. It is religion I am against.  The idea of gods. And that they tell us what to do.  

 

There's so much wrong with what you said, I don't even know where to begin. The number of assumptions you make is astounding.

 

 

Since you didn’t show anything I said was wrong, your statement cannot be taken seriously.

 

 

You know nothing of Islam. I guarantee if you make any criticisms of Islam specifically, it will apply to cultural differences specific to nationstates, most likely those torn up by war or poverty, or some monarchy whose culture was misogynistic long before Islam came to town.

 

 

 

            As for Islam -from their ‘holy’ book

 

““Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other… So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them.”

—4:34

“And call two witness from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not at hand, then a man and two women…”

—2:282

“Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females…”

—4:11

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