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Goodbye Jesus

Deconverts--Where Are You In Your Journey?


Orbit

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I realized that I was an atheist just this year. It's only been a few months, and I'm trying to make peace with atheism. I think it could help if I were "out", but I'm only out to 2-3 close friends.  The problem is the overwhelming US Xtian culture--I really notice it now and it makes me uncomfortable.

 

Where are you in your deconversion journey? What stages did you go through?

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Well, these days I find I'm a bit more open with my wife in saying flat out "I don't believe in the supernatural." Of course I qualify that statement by also saying that I consider myself a Hindu and have no plans to change this label (she's perfectly fine with this, and cares far more about my observance of Hindu practices as opposed to intellectual assent to any belief). So I suppose that in my own journey I've passed through a stage where I share the objective beliefs of atheists, while still not identifying with that community. Will I believe in the truth claims of my religion at some point? Perhaps. At the moment the only thing I've ruled out is a return to Christianity.

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I've been out since Mid April of this year. Out to my Wife and daughter, and now getting together with nontheists on a biweekly basis at an informal meetup. I did go to an Easter service, but that was actually more my idea than Hers, and I think it was a way to show my solidarity to the Wife before I ultimately came out. Unlike some others on here, if She goes back to church She will not be demanding I go with Her. She'd rather that I not if I don't believe any of it. This would have been a lot more strenuous when the daughter was younger and still at home, when the father is supposed to show his undying support for faith or the kids will be ruined.  So claim the evangelicals. And She had an experience growing up where Her own dad never went, or rarely, and believes that had affects on Her. So, I kind of put off my own deconversion, though I didn't say as much, until after the fact. Putting two and two together now, I can see what was really going on inside myself. I haven't told most of my extended family. I also wouldn't mind going to Christmas service at Her mom's Methodist church. The music's always nice. She hasn't started going again yet, wants to wait until Her job settles down some here in the Fall. I don't know what that will look like once She does. It'll be a new place, so it won't be like She has to be embarrassed because I'm not doing my marital faithful church duty. People can be awfully cruel to the one spouse who does go to church, assuming the other, usually man, is a falling down drunk or wife beater. That whole "good without God" conundrum they just can't live with. I honestly feel very bad for Her, regardless of belief, or in my case, lack thereof.

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Hi Orbit :)

 

I'm an atheist now, my deconversion is complete. I'm exploring (more than exploring) Buddhism.

 

As to the process...the hardest stage for me was anger. Anger over all the wasted years I've spent following Christianity.

 

But I'm done. When I'm done with something, I'm done for good. No going back. :)

 

Don't worry about coming out to others, Orbit. Just live as you wish and that part will come. And those who love you, will accept you. Those who don't accept you, that is on them.

 

((Hugs))

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Thanks for the replies everybody. It really helps to hear how others are doing. I wish I could put my finger on the day I became an atheist, but I can't. It makes it hard to understand my own de-conversion process, it's like it's invisible to me. I just realized one day that I was already an atheist.

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Well, I draw chalk pentagrams on the floor and hold rituals that include baby bunnies and Star Wars figurines.

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Well, I draw chalk pentagrams on the floor and hold rituals that include baby bunnies and Star Wars figurines.

That gives me comfort.

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Well, I draw chalk pentagrams on the floor and hold rituals that include baby bunnies and Star Wars figurines.

That gives me comfort.

 

Always good to meet another Star Wars fan.

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Orbit, I totally relate to finding oneself out to be an atheist. That is how it was for me. In retrospect I can now describe things a bit better, but when I first came out, it was hard describing it to the Wife. I think we can assume that as we are out for longer and longer, we will be able to describe it better, using hindsight.

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I have spent roughly the last decade exploring eastern philosophy and Buddhism and I think I have finished with that phase. I'm at loose ends at the moment.  I am sure something else will come along.  I'm a total disbeliever in Biblegod but can't rule out other possibilities in the spiritual direction.  The difficulty is that I was raised fundamentalist and everything is either true or not true. It either conforms to the findings of modern cosmology and archeology or it doesn't. I can't wrap my head around any other kind of thinking, even though to an extent I can understand it intellectually.

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Orbit, I totally relate to finding oneself out to be an atheist. That is how it was for me. In retrospect I can now describe things a bit better, but when I first came out, it was hard describing it to the Wife. I think we can assume that as we are out for longer and longer, we will be able to describe it better, using hindsight.

That's where I'm at. I have a hard time trying to describe what happened. Thanks for sharing your experience.

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I have spent roughly the last decade exploring eastern philosophy and Buddhism and I think I have finished with that phase. I'm at loose ends at the moment.  I am sure something else will come along.  I'm a total disbeliever in Biblegod but can't rule out other possibilities in the spiritual direction.  The difficulty is that I was raised fundamentalist and everything is either true or not true. It either conforms to the findings of modern cosmology and archeology or it doesn't. I can't wrap my head around any other kind of thinking, even though to an extent I can understand it intellectually.

I too have spent the last 3 years exploring Eastern philosophy, but I have found comfort in it. Specifically from Zen Buddhism. The meditation is really beneficial, and I like the worldview. My practice is eclectic, and doesn't conform to any Buddhist leaders or orthodoxy, so I'm finding it useful as a spiritual practice. I don't look to Eastern philosophy to explain what science explains, though.

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Thanks for the replies everybody. It really helps to hear how others are doing. I wish I could put my finger on the day I became an atheist, but I can't. It makes it hard to understand my own de-conversion process, it's like it's invisible to me. I just realized one day that I was already an atheist.

Well, I understand and somewhat relate to that. My deconversion took place over a ten year period. I know that when it began, I was still theistic. And when it concluded, I was Humanistic, in my views. Somewhere along the way, within the first few years, I gradually "killed" God and increasingly viewed all of religious beliefs and experience in a Jungian way.

 

During the latter part of that period, I dealt with my views about Jesus Christ. I don't know when I first seriously entertained a Humanistic view of Jesus, but I do recall posting it to my facebook friends. (That wasn't actually the first time I considered that view, but it was the first time I was publicly open about it.) If I can find the date in my timeline, I could use that as a concrete timestamp to mark my full transmission. [Edit: I meant "transition," but I left the original "transmission" also, because maybe it's a subconscious *message to myself. haha)

 

Otherwise, I use my birthday that's closest to the time period. (One's birthday is a good reference point for commemorating things whose actual dates are vague or forgotten.)

 

Thanks for your post, Human. I kind of wish I had an "anniversary" to point to...

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I have spent roughly the last decade exploring eastern philosophy and Buddhism and I think I have finished with that phase. I'm at loose ends at the moment.  I am sure something else will come along.  I'm a total disbeliever in Biblegod but can't rule out other possibilities in the spiritual direction.  The difficulty is that I was raised fundamentalist and everything is either true or not true. It either conforms to the findings of modern cosmology and archeology or it doesn't. I can't wrap my head around any other kind of thinking, even though to an extent I can understand it intellectually.

I too have spent the last 3 years exploring Eastern philosophy, but I have found comfort in it. Specifically from Zen Buddhism. The meditation is really beneficial, and I like the worldview. My practice is eclectic, and doesn't conform to any Buddhist leaders or orthodoxy, so I'm finding it useful as a spiritual practice. I don't look to Eastern philosophy to explain what science explains, though.

 

Probably my mistake was to try to belong to an organized Buddhist group. This was not a success for me.  But, I still think the Buddhist view has merit.

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Orbit, maybe you could assign a day for your anniversary?  If you can narrow it down to say a couple of months, you could pick a day within that that will be easy to remember.

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Deva,

 

Do you think you stayed with Buddhism for so long and explored it so thoroughly because you were testing it in the sense you describe: "The difficulty is that I was raised fundamentalist and everything is either true or not true." That belief, coupled with your rational approach of "It either conforms to the findings of modern cosmology and archeology or it doesn't" may cause you to analyze a discipline, belief, method of approach, or an experience more thoroughly than most other people would. In the end, you have a clear and convincing conclusion, for your personal purposes. But maybe it's leaving you with some disappointment that your efforts aren't producing or discovering more fulfillment. That is, you're finding validity, but not sufficient affirmation to compensate for your substantial efforts. (I hope I'm not overstating the matter, but I do relate to that.)

 

Peace,

Human

 

 

Maybe that is a part of it but I don't think this covers it all. There is the social factor of wanting to be a part of something I can wholeheartedly believe in, and an additional aesthetic and inspirational aspect as well as the intellectual one.  Buddhism seemed to serve all of these needs? requirements? at one time but now it doesn't.  I don't have a spouse or anyone else's influence so its totally my own search.

 

All of this is probably a result of the brainwashing I had as a child resulting in a fundamentalist mindset (believing there is a truth with a capital T) coupled with my own very naturally serious attitude. I have made great progress in getting away from the black and white thinking about Truth but can't go the other direction completely with taking Christianity as a metaphor as liberal Christians seem to be able to do. There  is a lack of seriousness about it. So Christianity had to go- but I know there are people who probably have less belief in God than I do who are still in liberal churches. They manage to make it work.

 

I always had the idea (for at least 20 years) that if I were going to try something I have to immerse myself all the way - so I did, Unitarian, Episcopalian, Buddhist - but after the immersion, I realize that isn't it and I want to leave.

 

I like Advaita Hinduism but there is no local group for this and so I am confined to books.  If you are talking about groups in the eastern religions, there are usually a lot of New Age types in these groups and then I don't fit in there either. 

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Thanks Human. I think it would probably help if I did know more about Jungian psychology.  It is as if I have some intellectual ability to see how metaphor works and so forth, but I don't really feel it. 

 

Its all very complicated.  I feel like I should have some kind of PhD in religion with how much of my life I have spent studying the subject!

 

I know that I have over the years developed some obsessive-compulsive tendencies in connection with this and with my job, which demands a lot of attention to detail.   I care a whole lot more about religion, or the lack thereof, than most people seem to.  Probably that is also true of many of the long term posters on this site.

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I've been trying to answer this question, but I keep drawing a blank. I can list out events and phases, but it doesn't seem like anything ever really gets resolved.

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I cannot tell you when my process completed, but I have been fully deconverted for a few years, with no worries that I might be wrong.  I was conflicted for a few years before reaching that point, troubled about the possibility that I might be wrong and lead my family to hell or unnecessarily ostracize us from friends and family.  I was stressed and conflicted for a few years after that due to an initially unequally yolked marriage, a fundamentalist family, and a bursting network of fundie friends and colleagues.  I'm only recently beginning to feel that I can be open about my beliefs when the topic comes up.  Still, some of my beliefs and practices are what many atheists these days label woo, and I don't see that as something to grow out of but to grow in.

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I cannot tell you when my process completed, but I have been fully deconverted for a few years, with no worries that I might be wrong.  I was conflicted for a few years before reaching that point, troubled about the possibility that I might be wrong and lead my family to hell or unnecessarily ostracize us from friends and family.  I was stressed and conflicted for a few years after that due to an initially unequally yolked marriage, a fundamentalist family, and a bursting network of fundie friends and colleagues.  I'm only recently beginning to feel that I can be open about my beliefs when the topic comes up.  Still, some of my beliefs and practices are what many atheists these days label woo, and I don't see that as something to grow out of but to grow in.

Hey TF!

 

I'm glad you've successfully cracked that egg open. I'm trying to do the same. BTW, I've never understood what the "woo" is. I'm just seeking to enjoy life in a humanistic way, to make life as meaningful as possible. I agree with you, it's about simply growing into that, becoming fully human. If that's "woo," then "woo hoo!"

 

Human

 

Woo is just short for supernatural.

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those of you who have a positive thinking and yoga classes and Buddhist meditation practices do not be moved by my negativity and find your peace and Nirvana. don't let my negativity drag you down. this is just venting that's all. there is a lot of beauty out there. focus on that.

You want to be an addict, go be an addict. There's nothing anyone here can do about it. it's your own doing and your own choice.

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Thanks Human. I think it would probably help if I did know more about Jungian psychology.  It is as if I have some intellectual ability to see how metaphor works and so forth, but I don't really feel it. 

 

Its all very complicated.  I feel like I should have some kind of PhD in religion with how much of my life I have spent studying the subject!

 

I know that I have over the years developed some obsessive-compulsive tendencies in connection with this and with my job, which demands a lot of attention to detail.   I care a whole lot more about religion, or the lack thereof, than most people seem to.  Probably that is also true of many of the long term posters on this site.

Deva,

 

You are obviously very intelligent and intuitive. I'm sure you would understand Jungian psychology quite well. I don't think it's necessary to "feel" it. The perspective would help you to see what in religion or spirituality is appealing to you. Maybe it is simply the social connection and fulfilling a sense of community. Psychoanalysis (understanding archetypes, the working of the psyche) would explain "why" you are looking for something and maybe which aspects appeal to you, and why they do. It might help you feel more content with yourself. That way, you'll know what you want to search for, and you'll know more in advance what is or isn't it.

 

I see psychoanalysis simply as a tool or method for self-evaluation, to help know oneself more clearly.It's a guide, not a destination. The destination is oneself. (Of course, you know this already.)

 

Human

 

 

Thanks Human.  Yes, I think a lot of is social, and not really even connected with religion. I never felt like I fit in at school or in groups in general, but I always wanted to. Church seemed to be a group where sometimes, for a few years I felt part of something larger than myself or that I belonged, or something like that.

 

I supposed I do already know what you are saying.  I don't know there is any destination.  If there was, I would have reached it by now. 

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spiderman,

Try and focus on things you can change. If something bothers you, think about concrete action you can take in order to affect change to how you want things to be.

Im not sure if you are coming from the same place, but I also struggled with letting go of an idea of perfection, and living in a perfect state ie. heaven after I deconverted. I was v. upset about this for a long time and sort of tried to will a perfect world into shape. This was an awful mistake. In fact this sort of thinking was only possible because I was suffering from the vestiges of a delusion that a omnipotent / omniscient / all powerful creator was backing me and my wishes, that prayers / thoughts could effect supernatural change.

Part of leaving Christianity was realising I can only do so much. Of accepting my limits. Sure I don't want a lot of the worlds fucked up ness to exist but what can I personally do about it?  What action is realistically within my power after I have taken care of my basic needs, the needs of my loved ones, paying my bills?  Think through the items of your anger and take steps to find solutions to them IN reality.  This will involve action.  The discipline of taking action is very sobering.  Can you really change what someone thinks about you or what you said?  In all honestly how much does their opinion matter to your life?  Will their opinion stop you achieving things you feel are important?

 

There are many organisations that are set up to try and alleviate bigger world problems. Many will be non profit and gladly accept volunteers. Go and volunteer to work for one, or get a job in a field so you can effect the change you want to see.  If it involves real effort, your time and energy you will see how much you really care about them.

 

By the way by taking action I don't mean ranting on a web forum.  If you care about womens rights as you seem to purport, then volunteer at a women's rights charity and help them do concrete work in defending womens rights.

 

I think your anger could also be some sort of symptom of a deeper malaise, which means that you will need professional councilling / therapy for. Emotional pain, anger is your mind telling you that you need to sort something out.  Drinking yourself into a stupor is not a solution.  Find a way.

 

Or perhaps you are just a teen having a tantrum because things aren't going your way.  Lol.  Man, most peoples teen days are tough.  Can be brutal.  I feel for you! 

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Actually Shabbymatty Spiderman,

 

I have been reading through some of your other posts.  It looks like you are at the beginning stages of your deconversion.  I too was bewildered and angry at that time.  I was seeing the world as it was for the first time, and I found it threatening as it ran on values totally at odds with my Christian fundamentalism.  People always said I was odd, some went as far as asking what planet I was on, but I was sure,  I was confident in the Christian way because I had as Marlene Winell calls it, the "armour of God."  If I believed in him and his morality as told through the Bible, what could touch me?  He was all powerful, all knowing, and loved me.

 

But then I gave up my belief in a sky daddy, and then it was just me. 

 

Suddenly these Christian values backed by God became MY values.   And they were totally at odds with what I saw in the world.  It took me time to figure out that as the world is a place where people compete for limited resources, they have values and morality that support this competition.  Christianity DENYS the importance of this material reality, firmly placing it into domains of "the world" or Satan as distinct from ideals about body of Christ, living within the holy spirit etc. This is only made possible by creating an imaginary world of unlimited resources in an afterlife.   And it instills in you a morality based on this imaginary total abundance.

 

The only way I improved was to let go of all I thought I knew from my Christian past.  To admit that EVERYTHING about it, EVERYTHING I thought I knew was WRONG.  It was only then I saw that really a lot of it is built from people trying to figure stuff out, and that most of what they thought, because it was thought many thousands of years ago had absolutely no relevance to my life in the 21st Century.  Parts of it that still made sense were that way because are they were are HUMAN ideas / problems, issues expounded far more clearly by more modern meta narratives and solutions created in fields such as psychology, or science, or philosophy.

 

Honestly, if I could go back then, I would just tell myself to give it a rest.  No you don't "know".  Yes you should look at the world with a new curiosity, like that of a child.  Yes you should go for what you want and figure out how to get there, being flexible in your moral outlook regarding what you are and aren't prepared to do.   I like Warren Buffetts idea...  is what you want / want to do something that you would worry about if published on the front page of a national newspaper?  Is it something you could openly discuss with your friends?  Yes you should accept the world as it is for now.  No, no one is deliberately out to get you, its just that people are going for what they want, and AMAZINGLY, they aren't living to fulfill what you want or your ideals.  So CRAZY!  Infact the vast majority just aren't bothered by what you want unless it affects them in someway.   You are so out of step with how the world works, many injustices just look that way to YOU, because frankly you DON'T get it, so get off your ass, get over yourself and do what's needed to understand.

 

Ha the benefits of hindsight!  It took me a good 10 years to get this far... I was v. v. angry for a long time, first at the world and people in it, then at Christianity, then myself for believing in such a crock of shit.  Acceptance of the way things are / who you are, is a very good thing and for me, was the start to any sort of recovery.

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Orbit and Spiderman....I have just finished my deconversion in the last year and mine was filled with anger and depression. It's done. No more anger. And I'm quite sure the depression will quickly lift. I have faced the lie of christianity.  I also was angry at the whole damn world. I despised what I leaned was the truth for me. Man is an animal and in many ways, more brutal than the animal kingdom who live by instinct. We plan to kill (emotionally and physically) ..not to eat...bit to gain power and control. I had to understand that this is the way it was and accept that.....that much of human nature was about surviving anyway they could. And that means for a lot of the rich people... having more power over most of us.  The best I can do at this time in my life is to try and make things a little better amongst my own loved ones and community.

 

 Spiderman, drinking will ruin your life if you are abusing it. I've belonged to the 'program' for 22 years. I got in trouble with alcohol when I was younger (during a backslide from the lord) and I've watched it kill, destroy people, relationships and goals for many people, including me). It's hard to stay sober in this world. If you can do it...go for it. Better be sober and sane than drunk and crazy. Sobriety gets easier.....much like deconverting from religion. It's better to have a clear mind to see things as they really are and then take action on how you will handle the situations of life. It's all about responsibility. If you become responsible, your life will become much easier for you and you will feel real good about taking responsibility..

 

I'm not happier or any sadder after my last 3 1/2 years here on EX-c. I miss believing in god. I admit that. There we're benefits to believing. Life just seemed easier for me when I was a believer. But I don't want to live in fairyland anymore either. I like knowing the truth about everything now whether it hurts or not.

 

I have new 'rose colored glasses' now. I want to seek out the things that are nice and make me feel good. And I want to make it nice for others if I can. If I find things or people to be poisonous to me...I will walk away from anything that tries to destroy the little bit of peace I have..So right now, I'm going to go for a nice walk and enjoy the sunshine. Every minute counts now for me. I want to make the best of life.

 

Thank Ex-c (not god) for the last 3 1/2 years because if it were not for this site...I would have totally lost my mind....I still have a bit left, so I want to make the best of every minute.

 

Love and a hug for all of you today.

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