Fakers?

[Ginko12]

I saw a reference in a post a little while back about there being “fakers” here, people who pretend to be Christian, still go to church, etc. for the benefit of their families, maybe friends… well right now I am a faker. I don’t want to be a faker forever, but here’s my situation.

 

I have recently lost my faith, although I think like many people here it was a long time coming (I posted about that in the Testimonies section). I told my husband about it. He was sad, but he wasn’t totally shocked. I knew he was going to pray for me to get my faith back, but I made him promise not to bother me about it (i.e. make comments like, “if you just prayed more…” or tell me to read a book, or forward me a religious blog post, etc.).

 

So that would have gone… fine, I mean, how well can you really expect it to go? But, we have two little kids. We have a 3-year-old and a 4-year-old who are a lot of trouble to take to church. We joined the Orthodox church several years ago before we were married, and that’s where we’ve been going ever since. Orthodox churches never have childcare or “children’s church” or anything like that. So it’s up to the parents to manage children in church. Our children are very active, and being so close in age, they tend to egg each other on. If they are separated, say I have one on the opposite side of the church from my husband and my other child, they usually behave pretty well. But when only one of us takes them, it’s pretty rough. Often another adult ends up helping out with one of them, and then I feel guilty, especially if I’m the parent who wasn’t there. Nevertheless, my husband said he would take them himself every week, because he feels strongly that they ought to go. I don’t have a problem with it, as I think there are some good points they can learn there (forgiveness, kindness, charity, etc.), and I believe it was partly lack of exposure to Christianity as a child that made me susceptible as a teen. I felt sorry for him and promised I would help him with the kids until they were easier to manage. I figure by the time they’re old enough to ask tough questions about the faith, I will have stopped going to church awhile ago, they’ll know I don’t believe, and they’ll know they can get a different perspective from their mom.

 

The problem is, I’m not ready to tell everybody in the church that I no longer believe. I have some friends in the more suburban church we go to now, but my best friends are the women in their 20s and 30s from the urban church we used to attend (the suburban one is an offshoot from the urban church due to the large number of people in this area who were driving a long way into the city for church, there’s no bad blood or anything). And I mean, they’ve been my best friends, not just my best Christian friends. And frankly, I’m not ready for anyone to know, whether it’s people who have moved churches with us, people we now see less often, or people we’ve just met in the last few months at the new suburban church. I don’t want to make a big deal of it, but I also don’t want to be the subject of gossip. The vast majority of these people are very good people and I have a great deal of respect for them, but unless I make some kind of announcement (which would be making way too big a deal of it), I guarantee people I care about would hear it 2nd or 3rd hand. I really wish they could all hear it straight from me.

 

The OTHER problem is that I was stupid enough to allow myself to be made a godparent to two children. I don’t even know how to begin to tell the parents of these children that I’ve lost my faith. The social circle is small enough that they will definitely find out.

 

The next time I went back to church, I did not feel even remotely ready to deal with all that fallout. So I let my husband think I was going to try YET AGAIN to pray, renew my faith, blah blah blah. I went to confession, I took communion, and I have taken communion a few more times since. I can’t keep that up forever. I’m assuming it would take a huge toll it would take on me and my integrity, and on my marriage (we NEVER keep secrets from each other).

 

I don’t know if I’m looking for advice or just somewhere I can say what I’m honestly thinking. Anybody else who faked for awhile, what was your experience? Who else who was this integrated into a Christian community has lost their faith? Did you keep your friends, or was it kind of a package deal? Did anyone feel the need to buy some time before letting your Christian friends know? Did it help at all?

 

[Margee]

Thanks for sharing today Ginko. I have read both of your testimonies and can relate very much. I was a total faker in the end. I literally could not lift the little cup up to my lips that was supposed to be the blood of jesus at the end. I felt like I was totally immersed in a cult of some kind. (and I was) At this point, everything got on my nerves. Talk of miracles, talk of money for the kingdom of god, sermons on the invisible god carrying you and that's why there was only one set of footprints in the sand, blah, blah, blah, talk of satan....... It all got on my nerves. I remember so clearly lifting my hands and thinking that I was such a fraud at that point. Then I was really good friends with the pastors wife and many other of the woman in the church and had to pray over them when they asked me to. I felt just terrible because i knew prayer didn't work anymore and I was praying to nothing.  I am so glad to be free of all that bullshit of putting on the false front. As much as I have wanted there to be a god and jesus to save my soul and take me to heavan, I am glad to know the truth about the bible and the christian god.

 

Welcome to Ex-c!

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I still fake to some extent, just to keep some family members in my social circle. Mostly I'm out, but having a geographically fragmented family allows me some freedom to pick and choose who knows that I'm out.

 

We had a LOT of friends in the Russian immigrant community, but all of them are Pentecostals. We purposefully backed away from them because they could catch a ton of flack for having us as friends. That was probably the most painful part, but then again, most of our connection with them was the shared myth. We had spent years watching the kids grow up, and getting to know them, but it was always centered on our common faith. Once that broke, there really wasn't anything keeping us together. They don't approve of our life now, but there are still remnants of friendship.

 

I can easily pretend if I think it is advantageous to do so. But I really don't have to do so very often.

[Orbit]

There are quite a few people here on ex-C whose spouses/families are still believers, and I hope they see this thread and respond to you. You're in a difficult position, and I completely understand "faking it". The thing is, how long can you fake it before it starts to drive you crazy? I'm in a much easier situation because my family is over 1,000 miles away. Hang in there and keep checking the thread for responses. 

[Ginko12]

Margee, I read your "Please Forgive Me" letter the other day and it gave me the courage to post. Thanks so much for sharing. 

 

Fuego, that's exactly what I worry about, having nothing else keeping us together. I'm really terrible with making female friends. I work with a bunch of guys, I went to college with tons of guys, etc. When we were baptist I never fit in with the women there. They were like damsels waiting to be swept off their feet by prince seminarian charming. The women I am friends with now are smart, inquisitive, don't mind that I'm a weirdo nerd, etc. I've never had another group of friends quite like them, and I don't want to risk losing them. I certainly don't think they would reject me, but of course I assume we would drift apart, and that makes me sad. 

 

Orbit, yeah, I don't know how long I can do it either. I doubt keeping it a secret from my husband will last a long time. When I finally spill the beans to him, he'll say, "You really shouldn't be taking communion right now," and I'll say, "Yeah, you're right," and then the whole process will start. I don't want to "fake" it forever, I just don't feel like I'm quite ready to tell everybody. I REALLY do not feel ready to see/hear the disappointment from my godchildren's parents. 

 

Thanks to you all for reading and responding. Just being able to vent to somebody is helping, and your responses are very reassuring.

[LongWayAround]

I'm a little further down the path than you but not much.  My religious world collapsed about 8 months ago when I came to the realization that I no longer believed.  After having read other stories on Ex-C, I had a rough plan of how I was going to come out with my deconversion and start my withdraw from church.

 

I told my wife about my deconversion a little at a time and over the course of a couple of months.  It went much better than I imagined but it is an ongoing discussion/issue and there is still time for the train to go off the rails.  In the beginning, I had not planned to tell my religious, elderly parents but as time has passed, I realize that if I don't, I will be put in a position of having to fake it with them (my dad will ask me to pray before or meal at a large family gathering or something like that) and I don't want to do that. 

 

Regarding faking it in general, I faked 100% in the beginning.  It was uncomfortable and I hated it.  I dreaded as the time to go to church approached and could feel my heart racing while at church.  After I came out to my wife, I told her I would continue to go to church with her.  We agreed that we would start looking for a different church since she was unhappy at the current church and switching would allow me to drop all of my responsibilities (serving communion, serving on committees, etc.) without anyone questioning it.  I still dislike going to church but I am anonymous at the churches we attend and don't have to fake anything.  I don't take communion or participate in any other way.  

 

I feel like I have rambled on but I guess the bottom line thought that I would leave with you is that, you will have to strike a balance between faking it and being true to yourself.  You might not realize where that line is until you are living it.  Going to church with my wife affects me more negatively than I anticipated but I am still planning to do it for at least the foreseeable future to ease her feelings with my deconversion.  Certainly my goal is to exit completely from religion.

 

Good luck.

[Leo]

Ginko12,

I have a college age daughter and a wife, and I realize looking back now that my deconversion has been a long process. But in the past year I ultimately discovered I really don't believe any of it anymore. I found myself out to be an atheist. I'm kind of uncomfortable with the term 'faker' and I think I can explain why. We are multidimensional beings. We are more than our faith, or for some of us, our lack of belief. I did a few things wrong when I ultimately came out to my own Wife. The main one, in Her eyes, that I came out to our college aged daughter first. Not surprising, the Daughter and her friends (the ones she's told) have seen this all coming for years. I'm not a godparent, and so that certainly complicates things. One thing I've really tried to emphasize is my love for my Wife and daughter. This changes nothing in terms of how I feel towards them. Looking back, I stayed in a lot of situations where I carried a lot of doubts, when the Daughter was little. I think we end up doing this as parents. I'm definitely an advocate for you thoughtfully coming completely clean to your husband. It doesn't all go like a bowl of cherries. Sometimes, as happened in my case, their responses are reflexive. You need not say you're an atheist, either if you're not comfortable with that label, or you simply aren't one.

I've also been selective as to who I'm out to. We ex-Christians can learn an awful lot from the gay and Lesbian community. I'm not claiming to have the same experience as them. But they frequently talk about selective outing of oneself. One thing to always bear in mind, out yourself only when it's safe, and ask that they not out you to anyone else. I got some really good advice from another forum, and that was from a Christian: She said it would be easier to take when it's all done in 'I' statements. Rather than saying why the belief is wrong, explain why it is you simply cannot believe it. Keeping the story about you (or in my case me) makes the situation very much less threatening.

Also, consider and weigh carefully how your church views unbelievers. I can be as conscientious as I want to, but it's very difficult for me to communicate even some simple things with the Wife without Her thinking I'm seeing Her in some kind of light. This is a result of the black-and-white thinking which is exploited in evangelical circles. By way of example: I was watching a video on my iPad this past weekend, had headphones on. I kind of drifted off to sleep. As the video music played its end, I woke up, and could hear the Wife's TV program running, sounded like Christian to me. Now for me personally, I had made up my mind I would not have an attitude about such things nor did I want to restrict Her freedom of movement in Her space. To make a long story short, a little later, I asked if that had been a Christian program. Just asked: "Oh, You said that was a documentary you were watching. Was that on the Christian station?" Now 3even that statement really really upset Her. Due to what Christian people are often told, She immediately thought I was putting Her in a box with 'those' people. When, in fact, I had just asked. It did ultimately work out. But it's really necessary to be mindful of how their beliefs are going to make them interpret things. It's a bit of a catch-22, because the spouse will want you to be open and honest with them, but that can be difficult to do when everything is filtered through a particular frameword. And we all do have a framework. I'll admit mine from the weekend: She's between churches. I haven't gone, She has had concerns about going by Herself. She misses it. Hence, me being a logical reductionist thinker, it might very well make sense that She would watch stuff like that, as a way to fill that need. In that instant, I had no earthly idea that She would have seen the question in a threatening light.

In short, there really are no easy answers, and the frustrating part can be when you really do want to do right, and be supportive, and end up having stepped on a landmine by mistake. The thing I really wish I had done before saying anything to Her about any of this, was to really consider, not just Her mindset, but the way in which the churches we attended view nonbelievers. I'm only deconverted officially since this past April, so clearly I am not a man of experience in this situation. Also, if the Orthodox church does tend towards black-and-white thinking, you have to consider the spouse's personality. In my case, I haven't really tended towards that way of thinking since my mid 20s, and even then, it was more of an accident of a couple of years. But the faith systems we found ourselves in really have exploited Her sense of orderliness and clear-cut definitions for everything and everyone. If he only registered as sad, and not angry / reactive, that may tell you something about how you can work together through this. But I take very seriously the way that prudent gay and Lesbian people talk about being careful as to who you out yourself to, and making sure the people you do can keep a secret. In my family, only my Wife and Daughter know, and only one cousin who follows me on Twitter. I messaged her on Facebook, explaining not to tell anyone about it. I think we're wise when we take coming out with this to people on a case by case basis. Where it matters I think is where we are expected to deliver a Christian response, like in your godchild situation, and I don't know how best to handle that one. You have my utmost sympathies.

And speaking of sympathies, it's really tough being young parents in church. Especially if there is no such thing as children's church there. All of the duties and obligations of the Christian part of Christian parenting are difficult even if you do believe at least parts of it. Your kids are pretty small, so I don't know if switching churches or even denominations is a viable option. I know single people with spouses that don't go to church are often viewed with pity, sometimes scorn, and sometimes goon squads to bring the erring spouse into the fold. I sympathize with your concerns. I wish the best for you and yours. I know the waters can be rocky, especially when certain stereotypes and ways of thinking get dealt with. But I'd like to think, anyway, that this is very surmountable by the greatest human emergent property we have, love. I'm certainly no expert, I'm very new at this myself, and making mistakes all the way along, hopefully having the honor to admit it when I'm wrong.

[Storm]

I am a faker. I choose to do so to spare myself and my wife and daughter the pain and suffering that they will incur if and when I come out. Its not always about me. I struggle sometimes with wanting to come out and tell the world I no longer believe. I may do so someday. But at this point, I see no reason to upset the apple cart. Being brash about something you believe in never gets people to see your point of view. I think if I were to come out, everyone would begin to inundate me with questions and things would get heated and then my opportunity to share my conclusions would likely be lost. Truthfully, I probably would never had the opportunity anyway, bout you never know. I don't want my wife to bear that burden of being unequally yoked and have to bear the sadness of her husband being a lost soul. I am content to just play the game. I try to pay attention to the sermon on Sundays and where there are major points that I think might be opportunities to bring up doubt to my wife or a friend, I use that as an opportunity to get people to think about things. I can usually speak freely about those things without arousing too much suspicion.

 

One nice thing about me is that I have always challenged the status quo in regards to christianity. Most of my friends know this. So, thankfully my questioning things is just a continuation of how I have always been. That helps.

 

Another thing is simply this: I am still relatively new to this whole deconversion thing. I am not truly comfortable in several aspects of being an unbeliever. I am glad that I am and I will never go back to being a Christian, but I can pretend and still enjoy some of the aspects of what christianity does well, which is community. I also play in the worship band, so this gives me an opportunity to continue to play music regularly. So, I am content where I am. I know where I am and I am ok with it. I love my wife. I love my daughter. No need for me to make their lives any more complicated than it needs to be. That may change for me someday, but not right now.

[Overcame Faith]

I don't want to "fake" it forever, I just don't feel like I'm quite ready to tell everybody. I REALLY do not feel ready to see/hear the disappointment from my godchildren's parents.

Hi, Ginco,

 

I understand your issues and your dilemma. However, I think you stated your solution in what I quoted above. You have no obligation to anyone to tell them that you are no longer a Christian. This is an intensely difficult time, as almost everyone here can attest. It is an extremely rare Christian who can or will come even close to understanding your decision and what you are going through. Sometimes what is best for some people is to maintain the status quo as it appears to others, and that may mean going through the motions of going to church, etc.

 

Tell people only when YOU are ready to.

[Lucynia]

I'm still very involved in my church and the Christian community. My livelihood depends on it! My husband and I run a church ministry, and we do a lot of work for Christian clients. Keeping up the act keeps me working, not to mention the effect coming out would have on my very religious parents.

 

I'm starting to wish I could just tell everyone, but some recent work experiences have made me glad to be under the radar. There's nothing wrong with avoiding irrational conflict in my opinion.

 

It's rough, and after this past weekend I feel especially rubbed raw by it all. It's a huge help to me that my husband shares my non belief. I'm sorry you're flying solo right now. There were several months after my deconversion before my husband stopped believing, and that was rough.

 

I hope you're able to find some comfort here and not feel alone. Message me anytime, I'll respond as soon as I can!

 

Best wishes, and welcome!

[StrangenessandCharm]

Hello, Ginko12. Welcome to ex-chrustian.net! Like you, I am a faker. I'm young and still live with my parents who are borderline fundamentalists. Sometimes I feel like I'm going crazy trying to keep up appearances at church, with my parents, and with my Christian friends who also, like you, are my best friends. The only thing that truly keeps me sane is coming on here to read about other people's experiences and realizing that I am not alone. I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do, whether it's to continue faking or coming clean.

[Ellinas]

Welcome, Ginko12.

 

I suppose I come into the "faker category. I went to church this morning, as I do practically every Sunday.  There I listened to the same old, same old.  I stood for the hymns as usual, though sang not a word.  I listened to the contribution of my newly enthused nephew, and wondered if he would ever see through the emotionally charged, self deceptive nonsense he was spouting.  A fairly typical Sunday morning.

 

My wife seems to have decided not to ask the questions to which she does not want to hear the answers.  I respect that.  After all, it's me that changed; why should she suffer - particularly when all it costs me is a couple of hours a week in which I can let my mind wander or even fall asleep?

 

There can be a lot of soul searching over this "faking" idea.  I'm not sure it's justified.  It's the balancing act between what is acceptable to you as regards continued involvement with Christian people as opposed to what is kindest for those you care about.  Only you can decide where that balance lies - there's no general "right answer".

[RipVanWinkle]

Isn't Margee's letter great? How any honest Xtian can read that and not emphasize with her is beyond me. Ginko12: I don't tell anyone except my family or non-Xtian friends that I am no longer a Xtian.

If anyone asks me (they haven't) I'll tell them that I don't discus my beliefs about  religion. ( It really isn't any of their business, tho I don't say that (tempting tho that is ). De-converting is a tough time, My belief is to do it in whatever way is easiest on you, You have no duty to tell anybody. My only rule is that I try to do it in a way that doesn't hurt anybody, or hurts them the least amount possible.

Good luck to you. bill

[directionless]

I try to keep my religious views ambiguous. Last week I suggested to my mother that we should go to a Christian bookstore. She was very pleased. I felt a little bit deceitful even with this small amount of faking. I felt bad walking around the bookstore secretly chuckling at the products and that whole deluded culture.

 

In a way I felt like faking was disrespectful to Christians and that made me feel bad. Somehow I need to find the right balance.

[passerina]

This thread has been so helpful to me, thank you for posting Ginko. I am a faker, also very new to deconversion and very involved in my church until recently. There are many times that it is extremely uncomfortable to me, I'm still trying to figure out how to handle it.

 

I hope you can talk to your husband when the time is right, it sounds like you are a good communicator.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Welcome, passerina - and as a Greek/Latin geek and birder, love your name!

 

Lots of people on here have good insights into the stage of feeling adrift when you first deconvert.  I'm guessing that you've already started to handle it.

[passerina]

Welcome, passerina - and as a Greek/Latin geek and birder, love your name!

 

Lots of people on here have good insights into the stage of feeling adrift when you first deconvert.  I'm guessing that you've already started to handle it.

Thanks ficino, I like birding too. Now Greek and Latin on the other hand......

[Ginko12]

Thanks everyone. I did speak to my husband the other day. I was honest, and I got him to agree to 1. Keep it entirely to himself, which I'm sure he would have done anyway, as he is very discreet, and 2. Not to bother me about fessing up to the priest. I told him I would, I just needed to do it in my time. Which unfortunately means I'm still faking for the church audience. BUT I have decided I care a bit less what they think after this morning, when two of them were trying to convince me to abuse (my choice of word) my children to force them to be quiet and still for 2 hours straight every Sunday morning. That was an eye-opening conversation.