Not Sure What I Am Now

[BinkleyBoo]

I'm new here and wanted to introduce myself. I've been trying to put all of this into readable words for days now and figured I best just start typing and see how it goes. I had a hard time figuring out where to start, so I decided with the beginning of the end.

 

Brief background of our christianity …. my husband and I were both raised in the church, and we raised our daughter there too. Both sides of our families claim christ, though to varying degrees. My husband and I were very active in our church, both minor leaders in different areas. We served in every way we could. Then things happened and we could no longer stay (corrupt leadership). It took awhile, but we finally left the church almost five years ago.

 

I can almost pin point the moment in which I allowed myself to doubt the faith I'd always had, and it was sometime in June of this year. It took me completely by surprise. I'd had questions over the years, but never doubts (I always figured there were valid answers to my questions that I simply hadn't found yet). But I think it basically started here … one day, our daughter made a comment regarding fear based religions, and I thought, 'well crap, there's a lot of fear in christianity'. It bugged me and stayed on my mind. Then I started thinking about things that were discussed a lot in church ….. being ready to tell people about your relationship with christ, etc. and I realized that if someone were to ask me WHY I believed what I did, I didn’t have a good answer (beyond the churchy response 'because of what he's done in my life'). I asked myself, what HAS he done in my life? Sure, there were plenty of things I gave god credit for, but was it really him?

 

It's hard to remember what conclusions I came to and when, because so much has happened in such a short amount of time, but the doubts I had raised questions that roughly went like this …..

 

why do I believe what I believe ….

how can I trust any translation of the bible, they are all different ….

why are they different if it was supposed to be god breathed ….

why don't jews accept jesus as their messiah ….

can I still believe jesus is the son of god ….

was he just some loon, or was he used by someone else to manipulate and confuse the masses …..

did he exist at all …..

now that I've thrown the entire new testament out, what can I believe of the old testament ….

is the jewish god real ….

if not, is there a creator …

if not, then what the crap is all this ….

etc ...

 

I talked with my husband and daughter about everything. My husband started his own research journey, and our daughter shared that she had been on one for awhile. We all came to similar conclusions, individually, and almost at the same time.

 

I know what I no longer believe, but I don't know what I do believe (higher power or not, etc). I don't know what I am, and it's weird. This complete overhaul of my identity has been hard. At the same time, it's also been strangely comforting, because now some of the terrible things we experienced in church make sense. The worst, most horrible people I've ever personally known have been in church, but I was commanded to forgive their evil. They can hide there, with the protection of immediate trust, simply because they've claimed to have accepted the same savior as you.

 

So this is where we are, and I’m so happy to have found this site, as I often feel quite alone (except for my husband and daughter, who are amazing). For various reasons, we have no plans to come out to our family, ever.

 

Thanks for reading  

[Orbit]

Thanks for sharing your story. You'll probably find the Ex-Christian Life board interesting.

Nice to have you here, welcome to Ex-C!

[mymistake]

Welcome

[littlewanderer]

Glad you found us!

I feel very much in the same place as you of just... not really knowing what to make of anything. This forum has been extremely helpful though. I agree with Human - it's amazing that your whole family is on this journey together. I know from reading the testimonies here not all are so lucky.

I'll be keeping an eye out for your posts. It's comforting to know someone else is in a similar boat as I am. 

[themonkeyman]

Firstly Can I say welcome to the site and I hope you Grow on your pathway here.  We have Spiritualists / Hindus / Deists / Agnostics / Pantheists and even Christians here however they are the Douche Bag Minority.

 

When you said about Varying degrees in your family claiming Christ that should be a little view that If Christianity was at all consistent they would not have their own opinion sets or interpretations.

 

The strange thing is that if you listen to a Sermon from your church you can hear how many times they use Circular Logic,  I came from a Presbyterian Church and I thought no way would my minister employ these tactics but boy was I wrong!.

 

You should not be quick to label yourself.  Take some time Like I said there are many different view points here so you can learn from someone.

I found that some despicable Things happened inside Church that some people would have been arrested for.

 

One such case was a Youth Leader having an intimate relationship with a 16 year old Girl (He was 20) oddly enough his parents paid the girls family not to say anything.

 

Oh and I took the liberty of answering some of your questions against my own (Agnostic / Anti-Theist Deist View)

 

• why do I believe what I believe
  • Because your told too.
• how can I trust any translation of the bible, they are all different
  • You cant,  I suggest you read Bart Ehrman he states that there are over 300,000 varying translations by scribes and we do not have a single Document with which we can derive the changes.  In other words we don't have the Original!

 

• why are they different if it was supposed to be god breathed
  • Because its not but its easier for Christian Apologists to say something like 'The Holy Spirit' leads us down paths to different conclusions.
  • And also no one wants to ruin the party for others.  If you are a new religious minister you are hardly going to say its made up as you will loose your own followers lol.

 

• why don't Jews accept Jesus as their messiah
  • Because they actually knew he was an arse hole!  Do you really think if Jesus was God the Jews who were Gods own people would have known it,  Jesus had to 'Persuade' people because the Jews were 'Expecting' someone else (Jews Expecting != Jesus so Jesus changes what Jews are expecting)
• can I still believe Jesus is the son of god
  • You can but you fall foul of Commandment 1 You shall have no other Gods before me!  Jesus said he was the way before getting to God, hence it should be a clue that Jesus is Not God!

 

• was he just some loon, or was he used by someone else to manipulate and confuse the masses
  • I think Jesus as Celsus and Prophyry say he was a Bastard son of a Roman Solider who learned some Cult things in Egypt and then used them to confuse people.  The only way to stop Mary being stoned for Sodomy is to say she is the Mother of God!
  • On the other hand he could have been intelligent however allot of his teaching is very simple minded which gives me the hint that hes not God as he would surely say something that would keep everyone pondering.

 

• did he exist at all
  • I think this is a far cry myself but theirs mountains of evidence to support this claim!.  However my simple mind cannot cope with all this information and make sense of it so I deny it.

 

• is the Jewish god real
  • I would say not however he is more 'God Like' than Jesus of the New Testament
• if not, is there a creator
  • I believe that we were created by a God but I dont believe its Yahweh.

 

 

[BinkleyBoo]

Thank you all

 

Human and littlewanderer, the more I read, the more I see that my family does have a unique situation. Unfortunately though, our daughter was first to have serious doubts on her own, but never expressed them. She made little comments here and there, like the one I mentioned, but nothing that would reveal her true feelings. Once I started down that similar path, I realized how alone she had been, and it broke my heart. She finally felt the freedom to be completely open once my husband and I started talking about all of this. And although she was questioning everything quite awhile before us (by a few years), she didnt come to any solid conclusions of her own until we all started discussing it together. I think she was stopping herself, didn't want to continue thinking about it. And she became an angry person, but we didn't know why. Now of course, it all makes sense, and she's no longer angry. She's not alone any more. Just kills me that she suffered with these doubts all by herself for so long, and we had no idea.  

 

monkeyman ... thank you for your answers to those questions and I appreciate the advice not to be too quick to label myself. I will try, lol. 

 

  ... Bink

[Ellinas]

Welcome.

 

The advice not to label yourself is indeed good.

 

You are where you are on your path.  It may well be that you have little idea of where it will take you - and you may be surprised by your eventual destination and how you get there in due course.  But, to be honest, it only matters that you are comfortable with yourself.  That you are in a process of change and reflection is actually a good thing - in reality, so are we all.  It's just that the process is as individual as each of us.  Whatever you might call yourself now may be irrelevant tomorrow, so why worry about it?

[Bluechipx]

BinkleyBoo, I like your list of troubling concepts that triggered your questioning of Christianity. Here is the one I had that started me on a look at the other side of the coin. I wondered why an all powerful god would make ONE way to him, Jesus, then let sixty generations of American Indians be born, live and die without ever hearing anything at all about this so-called critical 'one way'. The answer now couldn't be anymore obvious to me, but that is where it began for me. The more you look at the big picture without your childhood conditioning, the clearer it all becomes.

[florduh]

Welcome!

 

I know what I no longer believe, but I don't know what I do believe (higher power or not, etc). I don't know what I am, and it's weird.

 

You will never again be able to operate under the erroneous assumption that you have (or can get) all the answers. This is good. Believe only what evidence leads you to conclude is true.

[Blood]

Just as you don't need a label for the fact that you don't believe in Quetzacotl, Marduk, or Dionysus, neither do you need a label for the lack of a belief in Jehovah or Kurios Christos Sotor. Don't waste a lot of time on worrying what to label yourself. 

 

The whole problem starts with conceding, "I believe ..." without any examination of the counter-arguments. That's true of anything, not just religion. 

[BinkleyBoo]

This is all very helpful and has given me much to think about.    

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I don't know what I am, and it's weird.

What you are, is free.  You now have the freedom to determine your own destiny without the threat of gods, angels, and devils looming over you.  Enjoy the journey.

[♦ ficino ♦]

What a clear and life-affirming post, BinkleyBoo!  You really cut to the chase.  I like the way you zero in on the questions, one by one - the steps that lead someone out of the mindset.  I also am amazed at and envious of your family!  Wow.  I can't imagine such candor when I grew up - even given that your daughter didn't share her thoughts at first.  How old is she, BTW?  Sounds like perhaps high school ... ?  She made a good comment about fear-based religions.  In the end, MANY of us stuck around in Christianity out of fear far longer than our reason and best impulses wanted us to. 

 

Thanks for sharing, and I look forward to your further perspectives.  

[maxmaxmaxmax]

Neither do I, really. And I think it's OK. Life will still go on, and all the things that are meaningful to you now will most likely continue to be what they are. If they change, and lose their meaning for you, then that's also OK. New things will come along. You are still you, whoever that is. Yes, there has been a profound change. But your net identity/meaning/value remains the same. In other words, it's not that you have lost a bunch of stuff. It's that each thing has morphed into a new thing, or a new possibility of a thing, or maybe even opened up several possibilities. I'm probably not being very clear but I'm really rather tired. I hope some of what I say makes some sense, some of the time, to someone.

But, to be honest, it only matters that you are comfortable with yourself.

 

I hear what you're saying Ellinas. I think this is a really good thing to aim for.

 

However, I have become slightly wary of 'X is all that matters' or 'as long as you have X' statements. What if you don't have X? What if, like me, you are not sure you are actually comfortable with who you are at this present moment. If it's the only must-have, then what does that mean for those of us that don't have it? Is our life not worth living? Should we just give up?

 

Obviously not, and you're not remotely saying this, but that's sometimes how it feels. I think the reason this bugs me is the prevalence of these kinds of statements in Christianity, for example 'Jesus you are all I need', 'where would I be without you?' 'in Christ alone my hope is found' etc..

 

Rant over.

[francesco]

Welcome

My advise for you: just enjoy your journey, you may be alone in that journey but at the end you'll be set free

[BinkleyBoo]

 

I don't know what I am, and it's weird.

What you are, is free.  You now have the freedom to determine your own destiny without the threat of gods, angels, and devils looming over you.  Enjoy the journey.

 

 

I like that very much. THAT is exactly what I am now. Free. that's perfect. 

 

 

 

What a clear and life-affirming post, BinkleyBoo!  You really cut to the chase.  I like the way you zero in on the questions, one by one - the steps that lead someone out of the mindset.  I also am amazed at and envious of your family!  Wow.  I can't imagine such candor when I grew up - even given that your daughter didn't share her thoughts at first.  How old is she, BTW?  Sounds like perhaps high school ... ?  She made a good comment about fear-based religions.  In the end, MANY of us stuck around in Christianity out of fear far longer than our reason and best impulses wanted us to. 

 

Thanks for sharing, and I look forward to your further perspectives.  

 

thank you  ...... our daughter is now 24. Her questions started in her last year of high school though, when she was attending a bible study taught by a calvinist.      

[amateur]

Welcome!  We seem to be the people that were the questioners and thinkers, the ones who wanted real answers, not the churchy answers that we all know and make no sense.

 

Don't worry about "what you are."  You're a person that's questioning and thinking for yourself.  You don't have to follow any rules of a church or of "atheism."  Believe whatever you want!  I spent a good twenty years still attending church while questioning everything I heard and losing my beliefs while not really hating certain aspects of going to church (for example, I've always enjoyed helping out behind the scenes to get things ready for events, which the church is certainly full of!).

 

I'm now just atheistic.  We're here and here I am along with everyone else on earth right now, and that's good enough for me!

[Ellinas]

 

But, to be honest, it only matters that you are comfortable with yourself.

 

I hear what you're saying Ellinas. I think this is a really good thing to aim for.

 

However, I have become slightly wary of 'X is all that matters' or 'as long as you have X' statements. What if you don't have X? What if, like me, you are not sure you are actually comfortable with who you are at this present moment. If it's the only must-have, then what does that mean for those of us that don't have it? Is our life not worth living? Should we just give up?

 

Obviously not, and you're not remotely saying this, but that's sometimes how it feels. I think the reason this bugs me is the prevalence of these kinds of statements in Christianity, for example 'Jesus you are all I need', 'where would I be without you?' 'in Christ alone my hope is found' etc..

 

Rant over.

 

Interesting reaction.

 

You are correct.  To be comfortable with oneself is a good thing for which to aim.  But I wonder if my words are equivalent to the Christian statement of "Jesus is all you need".  I have no intention of telling you what is the "X" that will meet your needs - assuming there is something that would so meet your needs, the only person who can judge that is you.  What I can say is that it matters not what I or anyone else thinks about whatever your "X" is - be it god, the devil, neither or both, a philosophy or a material thing, it matters only that you are comfortable with your choice.

 

If you are not so comfortable - you are not alone and you have more searching and thinking to do.  No, you don't just give up.

 

And remember, that which makes you comfortable with yourself today may not do so tomorrow.  There are no absolutes.

[MySockSmell]

the jewish god real ….

 

That was one of my doubts on the way to deconversion.  Why do I have to worship somebody else's God?  That petty, vindictive warlior king from the Near East along with his uptight laws and taboos were the Hebews' problem, not mine.  All the modern sectarian arguments about law vs grace and free will and eschatology are never going to be solved by trying to figure out a book full of mumbo jumbo that only mattered to some long-gone Isrealite poltitians and priests. Who cares about the tabernacles, sacrifices, tithes, holy days and prophesies from 5000 years ago?  Jesus might have been an inspiration to his fellow Jews, but that doesn't make his religion the best for everyone else on earth. I'd much rather that the Hindu Gods turn out to be real than that egotistical monster Jehovah.

[Deidre]

Welcome