This Is Me So Far...

[Thrive]

I’ve lurked for a while, but this is my first post.  I figured I should get my story out there as an introduction. 

 

My entire extended family is Mormon, but my parents “fell away from the church” in their early 20’s and moved away.  My early childhood we would occasionally go to church at a Baptist or non-denominational church but it wasn’t consistant.  I remember once in Sunday school the teacher asked which students wanted to go to another room to pray for salvation, and which students want to stay and risk being sent to hell….well when you put it that way. So I prayed and supposedly was saved, but I didn’t understand what it meant.  I worried constantly that someone would find out I didn’t do it right since nothing happened.  I spent many sleepless night crying and praying, begging god to save me but I never felt different, in my little girl mind obviously I wasn’t good enough.

 

When I was 11 my dad moved us back to his very small, very Mormon hoome town just south of Provo, UT.  I am introverted and have always had a hard time building relationships.  I know now I have social anxiety, but at the time I was just shy.  I made friends with my next door neighbor, but other girls told me that their parents said they couldn’t play with me because I was a bad person since I wasn’t Mormon.  It was amazing how many people told me that they had never met someone who wasn’t Mormon before.  By high school my parents had started taking me to a small non-denominational church. I went but it took a combination of things to really get me hooked. First I took a geology class in 8^th grade and fell in love with the science.  At the same time our church sent the youth group to a concert/revival thing that had a whole section on Ken Ham’s ideas.  To someone with only middle school science knowledge it made a lot of sense and seemed to prove the bible to me. 

 

The youth group also gave me a place to finally belong.  We were a small group of 6 united against the people who had made us feel like outsiders for our beliefs.  By the end of high school I had experienced so much discrimination for not being Mormon that I was very protective and defensive of my beliefs. I was on fire for the lord and studied everything I could so I could support my beliefs. I loved to debate with my friends and thought I had all the answers.  Yet as I grew up I started having conflicts with our Pastor.  He was very strict thinking, we should not have any strong relationships outside of believers, only courtship was allowed not dating, our whole life should focus on converting the Mormons.  I had loved this Pastor because he seemed so educated, he had a degree in ancient history and knew Greek and some Latin (earned at a xtian college).  He encouraged us to study and question, but when I had questions like why god would send my extended family to hell even though they were kind and loving people, he always made me feel guilty and shamed for questioning and for not having enough faith.  God was all powerful and could do anything, he knows everything and how dare we limit him!  If we only had the smallest faith we could move mountains! So if your prayers weren’t being answered, if god wasn’t speaking to you whose fault was it? Right before I moved for college he did a sermon on pre-destination and it rocked my faith completely.  If life is pre-destined, and god knows exactly how everything is going to happen, why do we pray? I got my first image of god as someone with a very sick sense of humor that was just playing with us.

 

By the time I was 20 I was engaged to the love of my life.  He was strong and kind and he absolutely adored me.  I felt invincible with him knowing he would always support me.  We had met when I was 16 and while he was an Atheist, religion was not something we ever really discussed.  I only went to church occasionally if my parents invited me, but I stilled believed.  Then he was in an accident at work and after a year of doctors’ appointments, ER visits and intensive care stays he died in his sleep, 3 months after our wedding.  Strangely I didn’t really think about god at that time, other than being annoyed at others comments about him waiting for me in heaven.  My social anxiety went a little extreme that first year of grieving and I became agoraphobic.  It took many years for me to be able to function beyond just going to work after that.  I eventually started dating again and found a xtian from an end-of-days fundie type family.  I was so determined to make this relationship work and to do everything perfect, because I was terrified to hurt again.  Someone gave me a copy of the book “Created to be his Helpmeet”.  It was how to be a godly submissive housewife and I ate it up looking for a guarantee on happiness.  4 years, 1 baby boy, and his 25+ affairs later and I was a divorced single mom who was pissed off at god. 

 

I moved with my son in with my mom to get back on my feet, but it ended up being a great arrangement for us both.  I do plan on moving on once I finish my degree in psychology next year, but it makes sense to stay for now so I can do school full time.  In the years that I have been here I have gone through stages, going back to church and studying, trying to make xtianity make sense, trying soo hard to be faithful enough, but about 6 months ago I finally realized that I just couldn’t do it anymore.  My social anxiety still gets to me so going to church was hard as it was, but when I looked at what they were teaching my son, from the viewpoint of a mother, I had to stop taking him.  I remember reading him stories about Adam and Eve, and Noah, and the prodigal son and thinking these are not the values that I want him to learn!  I was seeing these bible stories in a whole new light and was disgusted in the violence and callousness that I had overlooked before.  The more I read the bible the more I doubted, that all powerful, all knowing god was nowhere in sight.  I've also taken college classes in sociology, geology, cultural and physical anthropology, literature of ancient civilizations and I felt like such a fool.  It’s like the whole world realized what a joke the bible was so long ago and I was stuck in a bubble thinking I was a horrible person due to my doubts. 

 

Having been widowed, and divorced, I had found solace online in support groups in the past, so eventually I googled leaving xtianity and found this site.  I realize that I am in a pretty good situation.  My losses in the past have made me spend time realizing what I want in life and finding my worth as an independent person and as a parent. I’m not actively involved in a church family that I need to leave, and if I do come out I don’t think my social circle will change much.  My son thankfully is young enough that I hope I will be able to undo any damage caused by his brief exposure. 

 

I do worry a little bit about my families’ reaction.  My mom is an on and off xtian and right now she is starting up again.  She is going to church and ladies retreats and getting all fired up.  She will get very self-righteous and make little snide comments about how I am raising my son since I don’t take him to church any more.  If she found out I didn’t believe anymore it could be an issue with her trying to influence him.  Hopefully in a month or so she will get bored with it again and stop going.  My extended family never discusses religion with me and while I love them very much, I have avoided moving back to Utah since I don’t want my son to suffer the same prejudice I did in our small town.  I worry how he will be treated if he identifies as atheist, as being xtian was bad enough for me.  I want to protect him from that.

 

Right now I am just enjoying reading the forums.  I still don’t know how I feel about whether or not there is a creator or god out there or not.  But I feel no hurry to figure it out.  It seems that if they were so worried about us knowing them, they would make it a little easier.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Welcome Thrive! Sounds like you've been through the wringer. Family is always the hard part to deal with. Here's hoping your son will be able to see through religion and not have to live through it.

[TrueFreedom]

Welcome to the forums, Thrive!  Good luck on your journey!

[themonkeyman]

Hey,

 

I'm gonna share my thoughts

 

Its intresting that in Sunday School your teachers were so Fundie.  I came from Presbyterian Circles so took a less dramatic view on Hell the Presbyterian View does not speak much about hell because to them Predestination makes it not worth worrying about as we cannot control the outcome.

 

Honestly praying to be saved from Hell is not belief thats just the same as me holding a Gun to your head unless you give me all the money you have in your bank account.  It does not make me a Good person doing that.

 

Its to be expected of Mormons to act the way they did,  They did not see you as a Potential wife!

 

Wow Ken Ham until I came onto these forms I never knew who he was though I suppose being Americian and living in Gods Country Religion dominates alot more to a sickening degree.  Northern Ireland where I am from has seen how far Religion can Go!

 

Jesus had aparant faith and even Peter who got out of the Boat but even peter despite seeing he was walking on water somehow is faith Dwindled which means alot.

 

I mean how much more evidence of belief do you need when your walking on water!?

 

Its funny that Christians raise the Heaven argument when infact even the Bible says explicitly that No one is going to Heaven and instead we will be in Jerusalem lol.

 

Congratulations on the Baby and as for the Afairs at least he didnt have sex with your Child - Lot did this with his daughters!  As did Eve with her sons!

 

Its intresting how the Church makes the Flood look like Gods love when infact it was still Mass Genocide even if God had have given them all millions of chances he still let them suffer when he knew that they would not turn?

 

As for your mum,

Lets be honest here you can make snide comments back perhaps. 

 

Perhaps mind fuck her on theology.  Mum how many people were at the toob when jesus was risen?

 

The greatest comment I have heard in my 1+ year on this forum.

 

' It seems that if they were so worried about us knowing them, they would make it a little easier.'

 

After reading this you may be bored - But anyway WELCOME!

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Welcome to the forums.  I've also worried about the possible consequences of my son identifying as atheist since we live in the bible belt.  However, I've just decided that whatever consequences we have to deal with along the way, we'll meet them head-on and never back down.

[Overcame Faith]

Welcome to ExC, Thrive,

 

I found your story quite interesting and heartbreaking, too. So sorry about the death of your first husband. That must have been tough. As for your second husband, well, how I feel about that depends on how you feel. From what I gather, you were in a difficult marriage. But I am sure your son is a real joy to you.

 

I was both surprised and not surprised at the prejudice your Mormon neighbors had towards you. Surprised, because publicly the Mormons try to give the impression that they are Christians like other Christians. I was not surprised because so many in the various Abrahamic religions think they have the exclusive tie into God and so declare that anyone who does not agree with their view has a one way ticket straight to hell unless the person accepts their beliefs.

 

You seem like an intelligent person who thinks for herself. Good for you. Don't worry too much about your son. Just show him your love, as I am sure you do, and that will give him the strength to carry on no matter his religious beliefs or lack of them.

 

Again, welcome!

[Deidre]

Wow, you've had some serious struggles but have made it through really well, it seems. Inspiring story, I look forward to more posts of yours. Welcome!

[Thrive]

Thank you for the warm welcome Fuego, True Freedom and Diedre32!

 

TheMonkeyMan, (I love the name) not only did most non-denominational churches I attended focus on hell, but there was also the pressure of being a “true believer”. Does your life bear the fruit of your salvation?  If a person does bad things than they probably weren’t really saved in the first place and they are going straight to hell.  They say you will just know when you are saved, you will feel it. So you constantly wonder if your salvation took or not and try harder to prove yourself to everyone else.

 

I had to laugh at your comments on momons and my ex’s affairs.  Of course I wasn’t wifey material! Who knew what kind of twisted morals I might have had being raise outside the church.  And I can honestly say that of all the silver linings I’ve tried to find in my divorce that one takes the cake. 

 

Redneck Prof., my son has such as strong sense of who he is and he is very social so I try to think he would be ok.  At least in Utah the discrimination was more passive, I would worry about violence in the bible belt.  How sad that you would have to live in fear of those who profess a loving religion.

 

Overcame Faith, thank you for your kind words.  I view my 2^nd marriage as a learning experience, with the added bonus of getting my son from it.  Thankfully his dad isn’t a part of his life so I don’t have to worry about his families crazy influence that much.

 

Mormons definitely believe that their way is the only way, luckily for all us non-believers we get a chance to change our minds after we die.  We just don’t get to the highest level of heaven.  The majority of them in that area are wonderful people, and much of the hurt they caused was done in ignorance or by a few bad apples.

[Ellinas]

Welcome.

 

Dealing with your mother sounds like an issue of timing, primarily.  Worth biding your time.

 

You've survived bereavement, broken marriage, prejudice and bigotry.  I suspect you will take your own time to go your own way and no-one can successfully pressurize you any more.  Well done.

[Voice]

welcome, Thrive.

 

Your son will do well if you just tell him how it is and give him a broader education than xtianity in a box.  Mind his fear of hell and help him detour that.

I don't envy what you have to deal with concerning your mom.

 

Chime in on the forums, it would be good to see more posts by you.

[Thrive]

Thank you for the welcome Human, Ellinas and Voice.  I have to admit that most of the online groups I have belonged to in the past have been fairly emotion based.  It is refreshing, yet a little intimidating to be joining a group that holds education and reasoning so highly.  It amazes me to see some of the conversations that go on here where people can debate without throwing temper tantrums! 

 

[seven77]

Welcome aboard, Thrive.

 

Hope to see you around sometime.

[Ginko12]

Thrive, you sound like a very strong person and I am impressed at your positive outlook after all you have been through. That "helpmeet" stuff is rough, isn't it? Ever since I was a kid I had people telling me I wasn't feminine enough, and I was too opinionated, and I was never going to get a man, so I went through a phase of trying to overcompensate for that myself. I was Eastern Orthodox and I felt like all the "good Christian women" covered their heads and stayed home and homeschooled their children... trying to be that way made me feel like I was dying inside, and not in a "good" way, like, "My old, bad self is dying and being replaced by a new, Jesus-loving me!" I was just... shrinking. I've never read any of the Pearls' books but I have read some of their online content. They are some pretty weird, scary people!

[Blood]

I've also taken college classes in sociology, geology, cultural and physical anthropology, literature of ancient civilizations and I felt like such a fool.  

 

 

That never turns out well for religion. But you shouldn't feel like a fool. What is foolish is the culture at large devoting the huge effort it takes to convince people that their religion isn't mythology as well. Not just foolish, but deceptive and mendacious -- the very things a "righteous" person is supposed to be against. Religion makes liars of us all. That's its most harmful effect. 

[Abrooks2007]

Hey.

 

First off, congrats on your evolution, and I am also glad that your son gets the opportunity to find his own path without the coercement of "Fundamentalist" Christianity.

 

I have, and probably always will, view the Mormons as a cult in of itself.  They're very seclusive and when I try to get into a conversation with a devout Mormon, they just try to refer me to their so called "stake president."  Granted, when I think "stake" I think of a stick in the sand, lol, but still.  Cult-ish to the core, and not something I'm interested in.

 

My very strong advice to you is don't beat yourself up.  Granted, I felt like I'd been sold a "box of goods" myself, to quote another de conversion testimony, but I hold my life experiences as very valuable.  My time with organized religion has taught me to be cautious of things being sold to me, and to view religious experience with a dose of healthy skepticism.  I respect other people's right to believe as they will, as long as they don't try to force feed them to me.  Thus why I love discussing Judaism with the Jews...they don't try to convert me in any way.

 

Continue on with life and don't let your family tell you how to raise your son.  From what you say, he sounds like a bright young man and will do very well.  Hope to see more posts on the boards as well.

 

Andrew

[Thrive]

Ginko12, the Helpmeet book was thankfully my first and only exposure to the Pearls way of thinking.  I tend to enjoy taking care of others, and for a while enjoyed being a stay at home mom.  But like you I was giving up a large part of who I was to fit into that role.  I remember picking it back up after I had my son and thinking I would be so disappointed if he treated his wife that way so why did I think it was ok for myself?

 

Blood, it’s interesting that most of the college educated people I know are devoutly religious.  The more I study the more I wonder how they could have gotten through their degrees with their blinders so securely intact.   

 

Andrew, you are right that life experiences are very valuable.  And while I do kick myself sometimes for time wasted, I have tried to learn from it all to move on. 

When I was younger I used to love to debate with the Mormons, the issue with their clergy is that they are called to office and do not receive any formal seminary education.  You can ask 3 bishops a basic theological question and receive 3 different answers.  I don’t discuss religion much anymore, but now that I have deconverted I think that it would be less stressful.  I no longer have a belief that I am so desperately trying to defend against not only their arguments, by my own doubts as well. 

 

Thank you all for the welcome!