Orbit Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 What evidence or knowledge would lead you to re-examine your faith? What could you find out that would make you reconsider your faith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deidre Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Nothing would ever lead me back to Christianity. It is a religion predicated on lies, and nothing anyone could ever say, will change my thoughts on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 I'm not sure if you are just commenting in general or if you misunderstood the OP. I was asking the Christians here what would make them re-examine their faith. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deidre Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Oops, sorry. I misread. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 I'm sure that the vast majority of Christians that reply will give a response very similar to that of Ken Ham, when he was asked a similar question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 I'm sure that the vast majority of Christians that reply will give a response very similar to that of Ken Ham, when he was asked a similar question. What did Ken Ham say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 I'm sure that the vast majority of Christians that reply will give a response very similar to that of Ken Ham, when he was asked a similar question. What did Ken Ham say? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 . . . of Christians that reply . . . If any reply. If. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 . . . of Christians that reply . . . If any reply. If. That would require thinking which of course is verbotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 What evidence or knowledge would lead you to re-examine your faith? What could you find out that would make you reconsider your faith? Attention Christians, which do you value more, evidence of Jesus? or faith in Jesus? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesaway Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 ^I think we already know the answer to that question. In any case, I'd love to hear what it will take to make our xtian denizens here reconsider their faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Is it too soon for crickets chirping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesaway Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 ^I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfuddled Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I loved watching Billy Nye's face during that debate. He did a pretty good job, but there were times you could tell he wanted to facepalm. And am I the only one who finds Bill Nye weirdly attractive? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rach Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 This is what I am dying to ask a-mum but haven't worked up the courage yet because it would really send her over the edge. What I want to ask her is "If Jesus Christ, who you love and serve more than anybody in the world including me, was found out to be a certified rapist, or sex offender, or kidnapper, or [insert criminal action here] would you still love and serve him"? To my dismay, a-mum would probably say "yes, I will still love and serve Jesus even if he raped a child" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted September 14, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 14, 2014 Believers are constantly bombarded with reasons to disbelieve. They all have doubts. Faith is not a from the ground up construct. If you don't start there you never arrive there. Those who claim that it is reasonable do so in defiance of centuries of church teaching. "Faith is rather a freedom, a permission. It is permitted to be so--that the believer in God's Word may hold on to this Word in everything, in spite of all that contradicts it. It is so: we never believe "on account of," never "because of"; we awake to faith in spite of everything. Think of the men in the Bible. They did not come to faith by reason of any kind of proofs, but one day they were so placed that they might believe and then had to believe in spite of everything. God is hidden from us outside His Word." - Karl Barth Because of this, relatively few believers willingly reconsider. To do so is to betray their deepest convictions. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Believers are constantly bombarded with reasons to disbelieve. They all have doubts. Faith is not a from the ground up construct. If you don't start there you never arrive there. Those who claim that it is reasonable do so in defiance of centuries of church teaching. "Faith is rather a freedom, a permission. It is permitted to be so--that the believer in God's Word may hold on to this Word in everything, in spite of all that contradicts it. It is so: we never believe "on account of," never "because of"; we awake to faith in spite of everything. Think of the men in the Bible. They did not come to faith by reason of any kind of proofs, but one day they were so placed that they might believe and then had to believe in spite of everything. God is hidden from us outside His Word." - Karl Barth Because of this, relatively few believers willingly reconsider. To do so is to betray their deepest convictions. Good point. Karl Barth may give himself permission to believe in spite of everything. And so may millions of others. Let them keep themselves the fuck off my land. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 The complete surrender of logic and reason is disturbing. What is it about "faith" that makes them unwilling to question it, except for its inherent superstition and circular reasoning? If their faith is so strong, what's the problem thinking about what might falsify it? Why throw your brain power to the winds? When I was a Xtian, I never refused to reason about something religious--it baffles me. It's like trying to tell the Pope in the Middle Ages that the Earth revolves around the Sun. All the observed facts point to it, but they say "no, faith". It's a refusal to think. That's where I agree with Dawkins that religion is dangerous. **BAFFLED**. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I loved watching Billy Nye's face during that debate. He did a pretty good job, but there were times you could tell he wanted to facepalm. And am I the only one who finds Bill Nye weirdly attractive? I could have sworn that at one point, it looked like Bill Nye was about to laugh, but was able to successfully suppress it. For about a second, I thought I saw the start of a grin on his face while Ken was answering the question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 So far that is two full pages and not a single response from a Christian. Does Jesus not realize this thread exists? I thought he was suppose to know everything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 It seems like reading the extimonies gives many examples of what it takes to make Christians rethink their faith. Do the Christians lack the experiences that start deconversion? Do they have stronger incentives to remain Christian? Do they have a different theology? Are their personalities different in some way? I think deconversion is harder and slower for me because I started as more of a "God is love" and universalist-type Christian, and I have always been dismissive of using philosophy or science as tools to know about God. My only tool has been personal experience, and absence of evidence is not evidence for absence. A Christian who starts with a well defined theology and who has read the right books about philosophy and science can find flaws in their theology. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 What evidence or knowledge would lead you to re-examine your faith? What could you find out that would make you reconsider your faith? Nothing, I'm in till the end. “Even if you persuade me, you won’t persuade me.” ~ Aristophanes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 What evidence or knowledge would lead you to re-examine your faith? What could you find out that would make you reconsider your faith? Nothing, I'm in till the end. “Even if you persuade me, you won’t persuade me.” ~ Aristophanes Then IH, no meaningful debate is possible with a closed mind. There's no point for me, or anyone ever to respond to any of your posts. When confronted with facts you put your fingers in your ears. You have no reason to believe except for the worship of your own irrationality, which you call faith. I'm done with you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I'm with IH on this one. There will never be the evidence required. To your post to IH about his close-mindedness, please state how we may thoroughly examine the universe or a multiverse and then ask yourself who is the close-minded one here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 What evidence or knowledge would lead you to re-examine your faith? What could you find out that would make you reconsider your faith? Nothing, I'm in till the end. “Even if you persuade me, you won’t persuade me.” ~ Aristophanes The claimed skeptic speaks. Identifying, feeling or generating cognitive dissonance requires that a portion of the brain is functioning correctly. This poster seems unable to identify, feel or generate the cognitive dissonance that should appear, given the contradictory nonsense he spews. It's analogous to a sociopath who has no empathy and lacks an understanding of the moral rules under which society operates. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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