Orbit Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 I'm with IH on this one. There will never be the evidence required. To your post to IH about his close-mindedness, please state how we may thoroughly examine the universe or a multiverse and then ask yourself who is the close-minded one here. I am open to evidence falsifying my view. He is not. You are not. If you are not open to evidence that would falsify your view, you are closed-minded, by definition. There's no point talking to someone who is not open to information that would change their view. Done, End, I'm done. Even if they found the bones of jesus, you wouldn't change your mind--that's irrational and that's close-minded. Without honest debate on both sides, it's just chewing on christians. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I'm with IH on this one. There will never be the evidence required. To your post to IH about his close-mindedness, please state how we may thoroughly examine the universe or a multiverse and then ask yourself who is the close-minded one here. I am open to evidence falsifying my view. He is not. You are not. If you are not open to evidence that would falsify your view, you are closed-minded, by definition. There's no point talking to someone who is not open to information that would change their view. Done, End, I'm done. Even if they found the bones of jesus, you wouldn't change your mind--that's irrational and that's close-minded. Without honest debate on both sides, it's just chewing on christians. All I am saying is humanity does not have the capability of investigating to the degree that would satisfy me... if ever. It's nothing against any particular piece of evidence. It's just there is no way to physically confirm our theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 I'm with IH on this one. There will never be the evidence required. To your post to IH about his close-mindedness, please state how we may thoroughly examine the universe or a multiverse and then ask yourself who is the close-minded one here. I am open to evidence falsifying my view. He is not. You are not. If you are not open to evidence that would falsify your view, you are closed-minded, by definition. There's no point talking to someone who is not open to information that would change their view. Done, End, I'm done. Even if they found the bones of jesus, you wouldn't change your mind--that's irrational and that's close-minded. Without honest debate on both sides, it's just chewing on christians. All I am saying is humanity does not have the capability of investigating to the degree that would satisfy me... if ever. It's nothing against any particular piece of evidence. It's just there is no way to physically confirm our theories. i What if archaeologists found Jesus' bones and could verify it? Would you question your belief then? Is there any hypothetical piece of evidence that would change your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I'm with IH on this one. There will never be the evidence required. To your post to IH about his close-mindedness, please state how we may thoroughly examine the universe or a multiverse and then ask yourself who is the close-minded one here. I am open to evidence falsifying my view. He is not. You are not. If you are not open to evidence that would falsify your view, you are closed-minded, by definition. There's no point talking to someone who is not open to information that would change their view. Done, End, I'm done. Even if they found the bones of jesus, you wouldn't change your mind--that's irrational and that's close-minded. Without honest debate on both sides, it's just chewing on christians. All I am saying is humanity does not have the capability of investigating to the degree that would satisfy me... if ever. It's nothing against any particular piece of evidence. It's just there is no way to physically confirm our theories. i What if archaeologists found Jesus' bones and could verify it? Would you question your belief then? Is there any hypothetical piece of evidence that would change your mind? I would question the science....sorry O. Just being truthful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 I'm with IH on this one. There will never be the evidence required. To your post to IH about his close-mindedness, please state how we may thoroughly examine the universe or a multiverse and then ask yourself who is the close-minded one here. I am open to evidence falsifying my view. He is not. You are not. If you are not open to evidence that would falsify your view, you are closed-minded, by definition. There's no point talking to someone who is not open to information that would change their view. Done, End, I'm done. Even if they found the bones of jesus, you wouldn't change your mind--that's irrational and that's close-minded. Without honest debate on both sides, it's just chewing on christians. All I am saying is humanity does not have the capability of investigating to the degree that would satisfy me... if ever. It's nothing against any particular piece of evidence. It's just there is no way to physically confirm our theories. i What if archaeologists found Jesus' bones and could verify it? Would you question your belief then? Is there any hypothetical piece of evidence that would change your mind? I would question the science....sorry O. Just being truthful. And if the science was good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 What evidence or knowledge would lead you to re-examine your faith? What could you find out that would make you reconsider your faith? Nothing, I'm in till the end. “Even if you persuade me, you won’t persuade me.” ~ Aristophanes We all said we were in till the end. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I'm with IH on this one. There will never be the evidence required. To your post to IH about his close-mindedness, please state how we may thoroughly examine the universe or a multiverse and then ask yourself who is the close-minded one here. You. I'm so sorry that there will never be any evidence for your imaginary friend. If Jesus was real we would accept any real evidence. We would change because we are open minded. He isn't so you are going to cling to your dream anyway. You do not change because you are closed minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I'm with IH on this one. There will never be the evidence required. To your post to IH about his close-mindedness, please state how we may thoroughly examine the universe or a multiverse and then ask yourself who is the close-minded one here. I am open to evidence falsifying my view. He is not. You are not. If you are not open to evidence that would falsify your view, you are closed-minded, by definition. There's no point talking to someone who is not open to information that would change their view. Done, End, I'm done. Even if they found the bones of jesus, you wouldn't change your mind--that's irrational and that's close-minded. Without honest debate on both sides, it's just chewing on christians. All I am saying is humanity does not have the capability of investigating to the degree that would satisfy me... if ever. It's nothing against any particular piece of evidence. It's just there is no way to physically confirm our theories. i What if archaeologists found Jesus' bones and could verify it? Would you question your belief then? Is there any hypothetical piece of evidence that would change your mind? I would question the science....sorry O. Just being truthful. Because evidence that your religion is wrong cannot be trusted. But evidence that your religion is right is not required. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfuddled Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I think this is why so many Christians close ranks and isolate themselves. If you never associate closely with anyone who does not believe the same as you, you will not ever be subjected to conflicting information and be confronted with the need to reconcile your belief/faith with the reality of how the world works. I think the church learned pretty quickly that they need to protect themselves and their members from this type of information, which is why they not only avoid it, they actively discourage it and view it as dangerous. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I think this is why so many Christians close ranks and isolate themselves. If you never associate closely with anyone who does not believe the same as you, you will not ever be subjected to conflicting information and be confronted with the need to reconcile your belief/faith with the reality of how the world works. I think the church learned pretty quickly that they need to protect themselves and their members from this type of information, which is why they not only avoid it, they actively discourage it and view it as dangerous. That really is what it is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 What evidence or knowledge would lead you to re-examine your faith? What could you find out that would make you reconsider your faith? Nothing, I'm in till the end. “Even if you persuade me, you won’t persuade me.” ~ Aristophanes The claimed skeptic speaks. Identifying, feeling or generating cognitive dissonance requires that a portion of the brain is functioning correctly. This poster seems unable to identify, feel or generate the cognitive dissonance that should appear, given the contradictory nonsense he spews. It's analogous to a sociopath who has no empathy and lacks an understanding of the moral rules under which society operates. I like to call myself an honest, caring and loving person....but... It seems I'm unable to generate cognitive dissonance even though I am aware that the car I'm driving is polluting the air I breathe. I seem to also live just fine knowing that I'm dumping tons of paper and plastic into landfills instead of recycling them. And knowing that those paper products are eating up beautiful trees in the forest seems to be ok with me. No cognitive dissonance there. I get pulled over for speeding and the officer says, "You know why I pulled you over?" and I say, "Nooooooo, officer..." I just lied to the police and to myself and I don't feel bad. As a matter of fact I'm sorta pissed because the cop was doing his job. :-) I bought something from a private party without paying state sales tax!!! Dishonest! I did some work for someone for cash and didnt report it to the IRS! Dishonest! I don't care that my iPhone and Nikes were assembled by child labor in China and Honduras nor does it bother me that I eat one kind of animal while playing fetch with another kind of animal and telling that latter one that I love her cute little furriness and would never let anything 'bad' happen to her (the cow/steer/bull wasn't as fortunate)... checking.. checking...nope, no cognitive dissonance from the apparent dishonesty, lies and contradictions that I exhibit as a well adjusted adult human being. Contradictions only cause cognitive dissonance if you think about them and give them equal importance. If you suppress at least one of the contradictory thoughts or dial down the importance of it, then you're good. :-) Then... you can drink coffee from that McDonalds paper coffee cup as you drive that gas guzzling Escalade to work, while passing by the beautiful green golf course, knowing that you're in a fucking drought but the home owners association will fine you if you let your own lawn die....where's my valium? :-) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Wow...is all I can say to what I read from those who call themselves christians in here. How about you Ironhorse and end3 already have changed your minds several times during your christian life and therefore there are things that make you rethink your believes. Just go like "I am in it till the end" is not even an answer to the OP. But how should one like you IH or end3 respond differently...we know how you reason and how you act on here. That said I think it is really unfortunate because like that there is hardly ever a real discussion going on. It reminds me of my pastor who at some point of our Church's history got invited in several talk shows where they talked about homosexuality and other things talk show masters love to talk about...his tactic was, not to go into a debate about the topic but to always come back to how much God was love. The other participants of the debate where criticizing him that he did not give any real answer to the asked questions. He though THOUGHT he did a great job because he gave the glory to God and told the whole watching world about God's love. While he just made a fool out of himself in reality. Back then I thought that was a great strategy but now having changed sides I see how arrogant this behavior is. And that is exactly how it is received. But yes, those christian fantasies about how God is touching lives...through them...by going into public blurting out the God-message wherever they can...not even caring about the people who receive it...not being able to keep up a good conversation. Why so? If this God was so unbelievable and loving and especially THE TRUTH...how does he deserve such behavior? Also how could some science and evidence due harm to THE TRUTH? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 There's nothing that can shake my faith in Evolution and Atheism. Even if Jesus appeared right in front of me. I'm in it to the end. My leap of faith, "in spite of all" (like Kierkegaard or Karl Barth) makes me heroic. Now, how can I monetize my beliefs ... ? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted September 16, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted September 16, 2014 When I was a Christian I tried to refrain from thinking lest it lead to rethinking. Ultimately I couldn't help myself and thought my way out of the little box, though I was kicking and screaming all the way. As you have seen in this very thread, faith trumps everything such as facts, reason, logic, experience and common sense. One must choose between faith and reality, and it takes a tenacious mind to hold onto faith - hence the weekly indoctrination sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted September 16, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 16, 2014 When I was a Christian I tried to refrain from thinking lest it lead to rethinking. Ultimately I couldn't help myself and thought my way out of the little box, though I was kicking and screaming all the way. As you have seen in this very thread, faith trumps everything such as facts, reason, logic, experience and common sense. One must choose between faith and reality, and it takes a tenacious mind to hold onto faith - hence the weekly indoctrination sessions. This^ florduh. You always put things into perceptive for me. Thanks again for saying what would take me 10 paragraphs...... Hug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 When I was a Christian I tried to refrain from thinking lest it lead to rethinking. Ultimately I couldn't help myself and thought my way out of the little box, though I was kicking and screaming all the way. As you have seen in this very thread, faith trumps everything such as facts, reason, logic, experience and common sense. One must choose between faith and reality, and it takes a tenacious mind to hold onto faith - hence the weekly indoctrination sessions. This^ florduh. You always put things into perceptive for me. Thanks again for saying what would take me 10 paragraphs...... Hug "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding." Proverbs 3:5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted September 16, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted September 16, 2014 It just occured to me that in order for a christian to re-think their faith, they would first have had to think their faith. I'm not saying that faith and thought are mutually exclusive, but they do tend to be at opposite extremes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 When I was a Christian I tried to refrain from thinking lest it lead to rethinking. Ultimately I couldn't help myself and thought my way out of the little box, though I was kicking and screaming all the way. As you have seen in this very thread, faith trumps everything such as facts, reason, logic, experience and common sense. One must choose between faith and reality, and it takes a tenacious mind to hold onto faith - hence the weekly indoctrination sessions. I agree that without the weekly sessions one's faith would falter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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