Hi, I'm Dhampir, And I May Be A Hater-Holic.

[Dhampir]

After a debacle of a chatroom session following a status update with those words, I am moved, by demand apparently, and necessity, to start a thread here. I think this may be my first ever Collosseum thread. Those that remember me from before might recall that I ocassionally succumb to my neuroses, typically regarding social anxiety. That said, I felt that the import of those words there in the title (edit: I changed the title. Please refer to the status update.) needed not only to be said out loud by me, but to be discussed, even if said discussion revolves around my being taken to task for them. We unfortunately were not able to make it to the actual discussion part of the taking-me-to-task. This seems to be due largely to my specific choice of words, and not the content of my message.

 

I'd be lying if I said was not disappointed by this. I have been away a while, so who knows how sensibilities are treated here nowadays.

 

That said, it did not come to me lightly to announce this state of affairs. I conversed with some people RT about the way gender issues work nowadays, and about recent issues, and the sheer discomfort I felt upon pondering these things has not failed to be very tough. So I thought very hard about this, and the only conclusion I could come to was that, I *may* hate women.

 

Let's be very clear about this, as I attempted to be both in my status update and in the chat: I don't hate women as people. I very ardently desire to be able to regard them as equals in all pursuits. I have considered this at length for a long time, and have isolated was is and is not true about my feelings.

 

Firstly, I don't believe that all women embody any particular characteristics that I find distasteful. I don't think most women embody any of them, far as I can tell, looking inward. Secondly, if I'm being completely honest, and really, I don't have much room to not be at this point, it's not women themselves that I really hate, but rather how our culture and our social mores constrict our interactions. If women aren't being paid less for the same work (which statistically they currently are, but that's neither here nor there), then some gender inequality puts women ahead of men. I know many don't believe this is possible, but without going into detail, it's very hard to deny; we are not nearly as close as we'd like to think to true equality. It's not merely the institutionalized disequilibrium that sets myself any many men at odds with women, however.

 

I concern myself with women because they are primarily what I am attracted to. The argument I'm making now can be equally applied to men. That is, how we are taught to regard one another, where men are concerned, how easily we are trained to defer in matters of dignity and treatment to women. We are taught that women are smarter, more emotionally intelligent, and more important in relationships than their male counterparts.

 

Conversely, we are taught that despite being our superiors, it is our job to both decide their best interests for them, and to shelter them from the consequences of their actions. How contradictory? Returning to our mutual regard for one another, the distrust we have for one another is trained into both sexes. This is made worse for men (for women under different circumstances, but as mentioned, I'm concerned with one half for this argument), in that the system enables and justifies mistreatment of men by women under a seemingly growing number of circumstances.

 

What drove me to the conclusion that led to my status update, and the series of retrospectively hilarious misunderstandings in chat, is how accepted this is. It's not given a moment's thought in our society, and it seems to be an issue of entitlement. Bear in mind where gender inequalities favor men, I don't doubt that the same can be said, but again, I'm worried about where I stand as a man.

 

Finally, since this whole thing is largely an issue of my own personal mental failings, I would like to discuss my understandings of the whole issue. My anger seems to stem from the notion that this is right. That this is how things should be. It would explain why this sort of thing goes unexamined. You get angry when you feel you are not given the same shrift. That said, my view, accurate as it may be to the facts, seems like it suffers from a degree of immaturity. The facts are there. I don't think I have misrepresented them. The problem seems to lie in my inability to sort through the issues, assign them a place and position myself for more frequent and meaningful relationships with women. I confess to a fairly glaring lack of experience doing this, however, my fears and dislikes contribute heavily to my lack of experience. It's a viscious feedback loop: I want more out of these exchanges, but I lack an answer when things break down on specifically gender-based issues, which leave me feeling spiteful and/or wary of trust.

 

I know that most exchanges, even most of the ones I have had, are unlikely to resolve themselves negatively. But enough do that I can't trust that I will be alright. Yes, I am saying that it's mostly my fault that I don't have a proper measuring stick for how to do what seems so basic, and yes, I'm also saying that it's largely my fault that I may hate women. I'm also saying though, that it's not entirely on me. How do we proceed?

[mymistake]

Admitting you have a problem is the first step to conquering it.

 

Have you ever read the book "When Anger Hurts"?  It's not about gender issues but rather a more general look at overcoming anger.  I found it to be very helpful.

 

The tl;dr version is that anger is caused by unrealistic expectations bumping up against reality.  When we see our expectations were wrong we become angry to cope with it.  So to control anger find the unrealistic thinking and come to terms with why it was wrong.

[Dhampir]

2 things further. I am a believer in the idea that the content (and context) of one's words should outweigh their nature. I am aware of course that this is not always possible or reasonable. But look at the title, and more importantly, the status update that led to this. The whole sentence I gave should tell you that there is more to this than a misogynistic, directly personal loathing for the person of any female. If it does not, I apologize but I must again stress my disappointment in the steadfast refusal of some to consider that there may be a 2nd context under which those words could be viewed.

 

Secondly, try to bear with me if my statements are jumbled or somewhat nonsensical in places. My writing is better than my thinking sometimes.

[Dhampir]

Admitting you have a problem is the first step to conquering it.

 

Have you ever read the book "When Anger Hurts"?  It's not about gender issues but rather a more general look at overcoming anger.  I found it to be very helpful.

 

The tl;dr version is that anger is caused by unrealistic expectations bumping up against reality.  When we see our expectations were wrong we become angry to cope with it.  So to control anger find the unrealistic thinking and come to terms with why it was wrong.

See-- THAT'S what I was expecting. I was admitting I have a problem of perception.

 

"Hi, my name's Dhampir, and I'm a hater-holic" essentially.  But I was at fault for handling the subsequent approach. I should have made this thread first, then went from there.

[DoubtingNate]

you mean lots of woman or just one woman who was mean to you?

[Dhampir]

you mean lots of woman or just one woman who was mean to you?

interestingly, the darkest of my experiences with women mostly didn't happen to me directly. I just absorbed and perhaps erroneously concluded things about what I saw.

[Deidre]

I'll state here what my advice was in the chat room, and that is to examine your childhood. I don't have any hate issues with men, I just don't trust them, and it stems from my own childhood. From what you shared last night in chat, that is huge and we are affected by our unresolved issues from childhood, more than we think. I'm just guessing as I don't know you, but I think that could be a big part of the equation for you.

 

I hope things get better. Life's too short to be resentful and bitter, about anything.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Orbit]

When you say you hate half of the human race to try and get attention, I think it's something that a mental health professional needs to help you sort out. I hope you get the help you need.

[Deidre]

To Orbit's point, we gain more listening ears when we don't come across in an offensive/combative manner right out of the gate.

Fresh slate.

[Dhampir]

To my original point, I would very much appreciate if anger directed toward me were with regard to the totality of my statements. At least some of our misunderstanding comes from a failure to take it all in, or a refusal to consider that the entire sentence was relevant to those last 3 words.

 

To Orbit: It seems rather clear from your continued reiteration of the same point that you did not read a word of what I have written here. That's fine. You do, however, abdicate any position of understanding if you fail to do so. I have psychiatric assistance, which I have reminded you of 3 times now. This is as much a social issue as it is a personal one. I did not come here to be "psychoanalyzed", diagnosed or cured, but as I have stressed, to talk. Stop suggesting that I should not speak my mind here, or 'seek help', when you've chosen not to understand me. It's dismissive, which if that is your intention, kindly DO IT, and stop throwing that talisman around.

 

To Orbit's point, we gain more listening ears when we don't come across in an offensive/combative manner right out of the gate.
Fresh slate.

 

 

To Deidre: With any luck, my clarified position should show you that my views mirror your own. Hate is a strong word, but it's only the word directed toward us men eventually and inevitably when issues of gender dynamics are examined. Unfairly so, say many, but the views and feelings that are addressed under the umbrella of that word are the things I feel. I do have trust issues with women, I do distrust the system that sets us up to fall so frequently, and what makes me angry, rightly so or not, is the feeling that these systematic inequities are entitlements to certain women. I'll reiterate that I am aware that most women do not live down to these expectations, but that my (and most men's) inability to determine whether or not one will is a frustration that has to be expressed.

 

People swear up and down that they want honesty. I give them that, and it becomes too much.

 

I understand that you think my position is one of a misogynistic de-valuing of a woman, which I imagine is what led many of you to not engage me. I will reiterate that I don't feel negatively toward women as people, and in fact, value the potential to stand equally in all walks of life. It is entirely possible that my upbringing with women affected my views, but I don't regard that as a primary issue. I would think that the strictness of both my mother while she lived, and my stepmother since then, did not connect for me as strictly female issues. I regard them as human issues. Most of my experiences, rather, come from what I saw of the women in my life, and how they treated the men around them. This continues in my adult life, with women both related to me or not. I absorbed what I saw of other interactions, weighed them against my own, and viewed them through the lens of our culture.

 

I'll say it once more to summarize: I don't hate you because you are a woman. I used the word "hate", because that is how my feelings and the similar feelings of other men tend to be characterized.

 

Perhaps I should have been a little more specific, but once more, the fullness of my original statement, taken as a whole, should not demonstrate combativeness. It was the admission of a problem, which, however angrily rebutted, was what I had hoped would come through.  We don't need a fresh slate, we just need to clear up the minor misunderstanding of what it was that I was actually putting down.

[Deidre]

Dhampir, I know those feelings. People misread my words sometimes too (and some of it is my fault ) but so you know, I don't dislike men. Or feel threatened by them. I have a lot of guy friends and I trust them. It's the concept of love that I dislike. And men just happen to be the bringers of love lol (lack of a better word)

 

Even if I were a lesbian, I would probably be this way towards women. But it's love that I don't trust for it let's ya down. U know?

 

So...hopefully that clarifies my views. But love is part of life. Or so I'm told. Yes? Lol

We're gonna make it.

 

It helps to write stuff out and I appreciate you sharing. You're a good writer, you should blog.

[Dhampir]

Dhampir, I know those feelings. People misread my words sometimes too (and some of it is my fault ) but so you know, I don't dislike men. Or feel threatened by them. I have a lot of guy friends and I trust them. It's the concept of love that I dislike. And men just happen to be the bringers of love lol (lack of a better word)

 

Even if I were a lesbian, I would probably be this way towards women. But it's love that I don't trust for it let's ya down. U know?

 

So...hopefully that clarifies my views. But love is part of life. Or so I'm told. Yes? Lol

We're gonna make it.

 

It helps to write stuff out and I appreciate you sharing. You're a good writer, you should blog.

We do have similar views. I have said myself that if I were gay (enough to like dudes), I'd feel this way toward men. Like I said, I don't hate women as people, or even in the conventional sense of the term. I just mistrust women from a psycho-social standpoint. I mistrust the intentions of women that seem interested, and I don't trust myself to handle the ones I find interesting properly.

 

It hasn't happened often, but I feel threatened by women that are prone to anger, because I don't want to be lashed out against physically, as I've seen so many women do as though they had a right to. In an equal society, I should be able to repel her (proportional to the force used against me, naturally), if she attacks me, but I can't, usually. I would rather this didn't happen, but I also don't want to be victimized in such a way. Our society tells us that as men, we should just take it, as if they don't remember that women were told the same thing just a few short decades prior. This is sort of what I mean by entitlement.

 

That said, I'm fine with most women, because they don't seem to be about to hit me, or otherwise exercise some negative consequence that I have no answer for. I will admit to a fairly infantile view of love along with progressive views about relationships, so my thinking is usually either too fast or too slow for normal people.

 

Thanks for the compliments. I won't deny that I think writing is a strength of mine. Notice though, that my thoughts were much clearer after your first response. That's why I wanted feedback, because it focuses my thoughts, and as requested, helped me sort through my feelings and put them down concretely.

[Orbit]

I'm not being dismissive. I think the kind of things that you are bringing up, and the way you chose to bring them up, really need to be worked out with a counselor. You say you have a counselor. That's good. I'm not qualified to help. I wish you the best of luck.

[Deva]

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