Ellinas Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I doubt if I'll have time to write any detail on this tonight, but as it's fresh in my mind... Tonight I accompanied my wife to a church meeting where the preacher was expounding at some length the rapture and the second coming. He was quite voluble about the judgement of god on the unbelievers. She asked me afterwards how I got on with the message. I informed her that she probably didn't want to know. Well, I suppose she decided that she did want to know. At least the discussion that followed was civil. Basically, she cannot comprehend how I cannot accept that the bible is the word of god. I repeated several times the issue of an omniscient god who creates a race knowing he's going to throw the majority away. She couldn't get past the idea of this being the fault of human sin, regardless of points about election. I asked her why she thought the bible was god's word - her answer, because it says so. She had no answer to but neither accepted the point that the person who wrote those words was himself a man. Interestingly, she was open to the idea that other religions are valid. She didn't learn that in a Gospel Hall. However, her attitude was "what they belief is their business and may be equivalent to salvation; I believe this version..." There was a lot more said, but my time's running out. My overwhelming impression was of someone clinging to her beliefs, rather sad but not desperately upset at my (not entirely unexpected) attitude. Where this will take me, I can only wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Good luck, Elinas. Those conversations are difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I feel for you. My wife is very similar. It's frustrating, but better than a failed marriage. At least for me. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I asked her why she thought the bible was god's word - her answer, because it says so. She had no answer to but neither accepted the point that the person who wrote those words was himself a man. Yes, and likely because she's been told for years by people she trusts to tell her the truth that it's the word of god. I was in that same position for years. I believed firmly that the bible was the "inerrant, infallible word of god" because I was told so repeatedly by people I trusted at the time to tell me the truth. Yet, I had never read the vast majority of it for myself, and I wouldn't do so until after my glorious de-conversion was well under way. Exposure to much of the contents of the OT had a lot to do with leading me down the path to atheism. The god of the bible is not worthy of worship. Hitler looks like an awesome guy by comparison. And, reading the first three chapters of Genesis without my Jesus Goggles on... OMG... Anyway, best of luck. As Orbit said, these conversations are difficult. I am beseeching the Magic Sky Man in your behalf, Brother! Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Sorry to hear you have to go through this. Have you mentioned to her that the bible never says it is the word of God? It does not! When the bible talks about the word of God it is always indicating God's Son. So actually the bible speaks of Jesus being the word of God. You can ask her to show you where the bible calls itself the word of God or do a bible study with her and find this to be true . Though I don't know if that was helpful or not...wish you lots of patience and strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Moanareina, I suppose 2 Tim 3:16 "All scripture is god breathed (inspired)..." Then of course, that epistle was included in NT scripture by those that compiled it for Christianity, so believers call anything with an apostle's name on it scripture. Other than that, whenever in the OT (whoever wrote their stories) where he is said to speak directly. OP, sorry you have to go through this. Sad to see loved ones so caught in the mind trap. Most of my family is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Moanareina, I suppose 2 Tim 3:16 "All scripture is god breathed (inspired)..." Then of course, that epistle was included in NT scripture by those that compiled it for Christianity, so believers call anything with an apostle's name on it scripture. Other than that, whenever in the OT (whoever wrote their stories) where he is said to speak directly. OP, sorry you have to go through this. Sad to see loved ones so caught in the mind trap. Most of my family is. Yes but from that to the bible is the word of God is a pretty big step. Also when I read it up in different versions (in German) this verse has a totally different meaning. It says that all scripture that is God inspired is good for teaching etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 But for a believer, that's good enough. We were always trying to find a way to make it work regardless of the mental gymnastics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Yeah but maybe if she is open enough it makes her think and maybe some doubts will enter her mind...maybe . Before I left my small group I said this to my friend who was the leader of that group and she went: That is interesting, I have to ponder that thought. Later she came back to it though at that time I was not really up to discuss the issue since I was still undecided and I sure did not want others to take decisions based on my words. Because even though I know intuitively that I was not, the chances where still that I could be wrong...and I sure did not want others to take decisions because of me and then be wrong at the end...if they would take decisions that could end up at the wrong place, they had to do so on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 Thanks all. Moanarina - I'll think about that approach. However, the circularity of the logic is self sustaining to the point that I suspect the text that has been mentioned is about all that she will need to cling to. It's all rather bizarre. The discussion that night went from a touch worrying at times through to rather light hearted. The bit that worried me was when she asked me whether this was ground for divorce. Not sure where that was leading, I told her that was something she would have to tell me. The way it developed from there, however, it seems she was actually concerned in case I was planning on leaving her - odd, as I don't think I've ever given any such indication. When I (jokingly) accused her of seeming disappointed that there was no basis in this for divorce, she giggled heartily. That I have no belief in Christianity is now clear to her, though I've still not given her a thorough tour of my current belief system. She seemed a little surprised that I am able to sleep soundly without the comfort blanket of Christianity Anyhow, not a word has been said since. I intend to leave the ball in her court. I think she needs time and to feel secure. Softly softly... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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