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Why Was Adam Exempt From The Transgression When The Transgression Was Disobedience?


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Why was Adam exempt from the transgression when the transgression was disobedience?

 

"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)

 

I think that Adam, not being deceived, was more culpable than Eve.

 

Why then did God favor the guiltiest, Adam, with, --- he shall rule over you?

 

Men rule over women? Why when men were not deceived but disobeyed?

 

What was the transgression, --- if not a wise decision to choose knowledge and wisdom and shun immortality of the flesh, --- even if that were possible, --- and why was Adan not punished as hard as Eve when he was clearly more guilty?

 

Regards

DL

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Because man made god in his image. wink.png

So the fairy tale would need to coincide with what would be most convenient for men.

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Because man made god in his image. wink.png

So the fairy tale would need to coincide with what would be most convenient for men.

I agree.

 

Yet this myth has been used forever by Christians to bludgeon women into second class citizens.

 

Regards

DL

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Because man made god in his image. wink.png

So the fairy tale would need to coincide with what would be most convenient for men.

I agree.

 

Yet this myth has been used forever by Christians to bludgeon women into second class citizens.

 

Regards

DL

 

as can also be seen in other ''religions.'' yes.

so, you are a deist? does this mean that you believe in a god, just not any of the theistic 'versions?'

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The whole thing is a fairy tale. From within, it's God's fault for setting them up.

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"Because it's all about grace and relationships"  ~End3

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Greatest I Am: 

 What were Adam and/or Eve deceived about?  Eve did not believe god when he said that Adam and Eve would die if either ate the fruit;

But Adam believed he would die if he did. Yet he ate the fruit anyway. He accepted the consequences of disobeying god.

 

Eve believed the snake rather than god, She thought either (1) Adam had lied to her as to what god had told him, or(2) God had lied to Adam as to the punishment for eating the fruit being death. From the text, I believe Eve believed Adam, but disbelieved god.

Adam, on the other hand, belligerently defied god and knowingly ate the fruit.

WHICH IS WORSE? Believing the snake rather than god, or

Knowingly defying god's commandment even though he knew he was going to die?

Adam's conduct would be  considered a grave sin by the bible god. To knowingly defy god was very dangerous in the OT. But to believe god lied is as bad.

I think they are equally bad. So god wasn't justified in punishing Eve more than Adam.  bill

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You can't squeeze blood out of a rock and you can't get logic out of the Bible.

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Because man made god in his image. wink.png

So the fairy tale would need to coincide with what would be most convenient for men.

I agree.

 

Yet this myth has been used forever by Christians to bludgeon women into second class citizens.

 

Regards

DL

 

as can also be seen in other ''religions.'' yes.

so, you are a deist? does this mean that you believe in a god, just not any of the theistic 'versions?'

 

I call myself a Gnostic Christian and unless some miracle working super God pops up, not too likely, then I will have to settle for what my apotheosis showed me. It showed that what we have been calling God is really what I found and it is only a cosmic consciousness, not a miracle working super God. It is quite natural and science may be catching up with my beliefs. Have a look.

 

http://vimeo.com/26318064

 

If you cannot give any veracity to what they may have found then my anecdotal story, you will discard as woo.

 

I have no problem with that.

 

Regards

DL

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The whole thing is a fairy tale. From within, it's God's fault for setting them up.

That is the intelligent reading of the myth. I agree with both of your views.

 

Regards

DL

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"Because it's all about grace and relationships"  ~End3

Did you wish to write something understandable?

 

Regards

DL

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Greatest I Am: 

 What were Adam and/or Eve deceived about?  Eve did not believe god when he said that Adam and Eve would die if either ate the fruit;

But Adam believed he would die if he did. Yet he ate the fruit anyway. He accepted the consequences of disobeying god.

 

Eve believed the snake rather than god, She thought either (1) Adam had lied to her as to what god had told him, or(2) God had lied to Adam as to the punishment for eating the fruit being death. From the text, I believe Eve believed Adam, but disbelieved god.

Adam, on the other hand, belligerently defied god and knowingly ate the fruit.

WHICH IS WORSE? Believing the snake rather than god, or

Knowingly defying god's commandment even though he knew he was going to die?

Adam's conduct would be  considered a grave sin by the bible god. To knowingly defy god was very dangerous in the OT. But to believe god lied is as bad.

I think they are equally bad. So god wasn't justified in punishing Eve more than Adam.  bill

I agree.

 

I do not try to argue on who believed what. I do not really care in the sense that I see A & E making the right choice in that they rejected being as bright as bricks forever, for knowledge of almost everything. Which is basically what the tree of knowledge is as almost everything is subject to good and evil.

 

That quote I used is also strangely written as it indicates that without temptation, Adam just disobeyed which is somehow better than being deceived. To me, the opposite would be true.

 

Regards

DL

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You can't squeeze blood out of a rock and you can't get logic out of the Bible.

You can if you read it the way the Jews intended it to be read bur certainly not the way Christians do.

 

For instance, Jews see Eden as a place for man's elevation while Christians see a fall.

 

I guess that the Jews see, --- becoming as Gods in the knowing of good and evil, --- as a good think. So do I.

 

Regards

DL

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It was the unintegrated human psyche playing mind games with itself...

Yahweh represents fear, taboo, prohibition.

The fruit of the Tree is the object of desire.

The Serpent is Eve's Human Will asserting itself against Yahweh.

Eve was becoming integrated, fully conscious, fully Human.

Yahweh threw a hissy fit because Eve outsmarted him.

It sure does look like God wanted stupid people when you read it the Christian way.

 

The Jews were brighter even back then.

 

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

 

http://www.mrrena.com/misc/judaism2.php

 

Regards

DL

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Because man made god in his image. wink.png

So the fairy tale would need to coincide with what would be most convenient for men.

I agree.

 

Yet this myth has been used forever by Christians to bludgeon women into second class citizens.

 

Regards

DL

 

as can also be seen in other ''religions.'' yes.

so, you are a deist? does this mean that you believe in a god, just not any of the theistic 'versions?'

 

I call myself a Gnostic Christian and unless some miracle working super God pops up, not too likely, then I will have to settle for what my apotheosis showed me. It showed that what we have been calling God is really what I found and it is only a cosmic consciousness, not a miracle working super God. It is quite natural and science may be catching up with my beliefs. Have a look.

 

http://vimeo.com/26318064

 

If you cannot give any veracity to what they may have found then my anecdotal story, you will discard as woo.

 

I have no problem with that.

 

Regards

DL

 

That video is pretty fascinating, slightly woo-ish, lol...but I think it's very interesting. ''Cosmic consciousness.''

Relating to Gnosticism, many believe that Gnosticism was the 'original' form of Christianity, before Constantine took control. If we could rewind time, it would be interesting to see what might have happened, had Gnosticism been allowed to flourish.

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Greatest, on what do you base your claims regarding the views of Jews "back then"?  Sorry but this sounds so much like the spin of believers.

 

The stories of Hans Christian Andersen make sense.  But you have to realize that there is no such thing as mermaids.  His stories are mythology.  As long as you don't interpret them from the idea that mermaids are real and you have to build your whole life around mermaids then these fables are useful for conveying folk wisdom.  The problem is that ancient Hebrews thought gods were real.  That leaves a huge disconnect from reality.  And it goes down hill from there.

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  • Super Moderator

 

"Because it's all about grace and relationships"  ~End3

Did you wish to write something understandable?

 

Regards

DL

 

No.

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  • 2 weeks later...
That video is pretty fascinating, slightly woo-ish, lol...but I think it's very interesting. ''Cosmic consciousness.''

Relating to Gnosticism, many believe that Gnosticism was the 'original' form of Christianity, before Constantine took control. If we could rewind time, it would be interesting to see what might have happened, had Gnosticism been allowed to flourish.

 

 

My thoughts on why Gnosticism did not flourish:

 

Monotheism is essentially a very masculine endeavor. Gnosticism was much more accepting of the feminine divine and was more open to women. The boys' club realized that this was a threat to their absolute power. So they stomped it out and used a made-up after the fact "holy" book to convince people that this was so.

 

If Gnosticism had been allowed to flourish, it is likely that we would have had a more nuanced and balanced form of belief that was based on the ancient pre-temple variant of Judaism that honored both Yahweh and his consort Asherah. I think that gender relations would likely be better and that the faith would be less oppressive to women and those who are good ol' boys, so to say. I also think that Catholicism would have probably never have taken off and that alone would have put Western societies on a much different trajectory than the one we are currently on.

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