How Could I?

[UnFundEd]

Since deconverting, I have experienced a range of emotions, from sadness to anger, and everything in between.

 

At the moment I feel like an idiot.

 

I'm a reasonably intelligent person. How could I have been such a sucker? How could I have bought into the whole thing for so many decades, without questioning any of it? What a patsy! How could it have never dawned on me that the whole thing was made up? Why did it take years for reality to sink in, even after cracks started to appear?

 

I look at christianity now, from the outside looking in, and I'm just astounded. Really I'm utterly fascinated by how it all works. It's a bit of a miracle that so many millions of people are so deluded, and none of them seem to get it. It makes me want to study the dynamics of mass delusion. Can anyone recomend a good place to start that study?

[RipVanWinkle]

I felt the same way that you do when I deconverted. But I've forgiven myself for having been an idiot now. I have read a little on the subject but as a part of a book much broader than mass indoctrination. I'm sure there are books on the subject, but I don't recall their titles.

 I do know that Xtanity is very much a part of our culture, which is very slow to change. Religion absorbs the culture around it. And the culture absorbs the religion. The American culture has been absorbed in Xtianity. Just think about how materialistic this country is. But you don't hear churches taking a strong  position against wealth acquisition today. If they do it is very measured. That's different than it used to be when wealth was criticized as a god idol. Perhaps the churches figured out that if their parishes didn't have money to spare it would hurt the church's financial statement. I have talked with regular church goers who actually did not know that the NT took a strong stand against the storing up of wealth in this life. But the point is Xtianity is all around us, in our private lives as well as in our church life. It is in the marrow of our bones. Even where people have even agnostics or even atheists al their life, I have seen conversion to Xtianity by educated people in middle age. What they have absorbed all their lives surfaces and takes hold of their reasoning in a negative way.                       Good luck and keep reading on the subject.   bill

[Orbit]

Since deconverting, I have experienced a range of emotions, from sadness to anger, and everything in between.

 

At the moment I feel like an idiot.

 

I'm a reasonably intelligent person. How could I have been such a sucker? How could I have bought into the whole thing for so many decades, without questioning any of it? What a patsy! How could it have never dawned on me that the whole thing was made up? Why did it take years for reality to sink in, even after cracks started to appear?

 

I look at christianity now, from the outside looking in, and I'm just astounded. Really I'm utterly fascinated by how it all works. It's a bit of a miracle that so many millions of people are so deluded, and none of them seem to get it. It makes me want to study the dynamics of mass delusion. Can anyone recomend a good place to start that study?

Yes, it's a field of sociology called Collective Behavior. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_behavior for a start.

Also see this classic book, When Prophecy Fails  http://www.amazon.com/When-Prophecy-Fails-Psychological-Destruction/dp/0061311324/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411436439&sr=1-2&keywords=when+prophecy+fails

 

Or you could just ask me questions.

[Brother Jeff]

Since deconverting, I have experienced a range of emotions, from sadness to anger, and everything in between.

 

At the moment I feel like an idiot.

 

I'm a reasonably intelligent person. How could I have been such a sucker? How could I have bought into the whole thing for so many decades, without questioning any of it? What a patsy! How could it have never dawned on me that the whole thing was made up? Why did it take years for reality to sink in, even after cracks started to appear?

 

I look at christianity now, from the outside looking in, and I'm just astounded. Really I'm utterly fascinated by how it all works. It's a bit of a miracle that so many millions of people are so deluded, and none of them seem to get it. It makes me want to study the dynamics of mass delusion. Can anyone recomend a good place to start that study?

 

A lot of us have probably felt the same way. Religious de-conversion often involves a whole lot of emotions, feeling like an idiot being among them. I was in the cult for 15 years of my life, yet I had serious doubts and questions begin just months after my glorious conversion on March 7, 1985. It is pretty stupid to take a an ancient book seriously that starts out getting the very first verse totally wrong, and then goes rapidly downhill from there into two contradictory and absurd creation stories involving two obviously mythical people, a talking snake, magic trees, and magic fruit. And it never gets any better... yet many of us spent many years of our lives firmly believing that it was the "inerrant, infallible Word of God."

 

I too am a reasonably intelligent person, but I bought into it all hardcore for a very long time. Vigile and I had a conversation not too long ago in another thread about the reason so many of us get sucked into the cult being cultural indoctrination, and that is true. Beyond that, it's brainwashing and FEAR. I wrote this article years ago but I'll post it here and hope it helps:

 

http://religionisbullshit.me/brainwashing-and-fear-the-tools-of-the-church/

 

Hang in there. Many of us here understand exactly how you feel, and we're here for you. Glory!

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I made my conversion decision based on a childish fear of monsters. It was then re-enforced with the default cultural respect given to Christianity, and by the many friends I made in church. That kept me locked in a mindset for 30 years, though I occasionally encountered atheist arguments that seemed valid and made me very sad. I chose going with "what I knew was true" rather than actually examining what I had experienced. So, from one perspective I could call myself stupid, but really I had a lot of social reasons for staying that had nothing to do with the validity of the belief. But I'm ever so happy to be out now.
 

[UnFundEd]

I felt the same way that you do when I deconverted. But I've forgiven myself for having been an idiot now. I have read a little on the subject but as a part of a book much broader than mass indoctrination. I'm sure there are books on the subject, but I don't recall their titles.

 I do know that Xtanity is very much a part of our culture, which is very slow to change. Religion absorbs the culture around it. And the culture absorbs the religion. The American culture has been absorbed in Xtianity. Just think about how materialistic this country is. But you don't hear churches taking a strong  position against wealth acquisition today. If they do it is very measured. That's different than it used to be when wealth was criticized as a god idol. Perhaps the churches figured out that if their parishes didn't have money to spare it would hurt the church's financial statement. I have talked with regular church goers who actually did not know that the NT took a strong stand against the storing up of wealth in this life. But the point is Xtianity is all around us, in our private lives as well as in our church life. It is in the marrow of our bones. Even where people have even agnostics or even atheists al their life, I have seen conversion to Xtianity by educated people in middle age. What they have absorbed all their lives surfaces and takes hold of their reasoning in a negative way.                       Good luck and keep reading on the subject.   bill

Excellent points. I've observed a number of different ways that the money trail stands as a primary reason that things are the way they are in christianity.

[UnFundEd]

 

Since deconverting, I have experienced a range of emotions, from sadness to anger, and everything in between.

At the moment I feel like an idiot.

I'm a reasonably intelligent person. How could I have been such a sucker? How could I have bought into the whole thing for so many decades, without questioning any of it? What a patsy! How could it have never dawned on me that the whole thing was made up? Why did it take years for reality to sink in, even after cracks started to appear?

I look at christianity now, from the outside looking in, and I'm just astounded. Really I'm utterly fascinated by how it all works. It's a bit of a miracle that so many millions of people are so deluded, and none of them seem to get it. It makes me want to study the dynamics of mass delusion. Can anyone recomend a good place to start that study?

 

Yes, it's a field of sociology called Collective Behavior. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_behavior for a start.

Also see this classic book, When Prophecy Fails  http://www.amazon.com/When-Prophecy-Fails-Psychological-Destruction/dp/0061311324/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411436439&sr=1-2&keywords=when+prophecy+fails

 

Or you could just ask me questions.

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out.

[UnFundEd]

 

Since deconverting, I have experienced a range of emotions, from sadness to anger, and everything in between.

At the moment I feel like an idiot.

I'm a reasonably intelligent person. How could I have been such a sucker? How could I have bought into the whole thing for so many decades, without questioning any of it? What a patsy! How could it have never dawned on me that the whole thing was made up? Why did it take years for reality to sink in, even after cracks started to appear?

I look at christianity now, from the outside looking in, and I'm just astounded. Really I'm utterly fascinated by how it all works. It's a bit of a miracle that so many millions of people are so deluded, and none of them seem to get it. It makes me want to study the dynamics of mass delusion. Can anyone recomend a good place to start that study?

 

 

A lot of us have probably felt the same way. Religious de-conversion often involves a whole lot of emotions, feeling like an idiot being among them. I was in the cult for 15 years of my life, yet I had serious doubts and questions begin just months after my glorious conversion on March 7, 1985. It is pretty stupid to take a an ancient book seriously that starts out getting the very first verse totally wrong, and then goes rapidly downhill from there into two contradictory and absurd creation stories involving two obviously mythical people, a talking snake, magic trees, and magic fruit. And it never gets any better... yet many of us spent many years of our lives firmly believing that it was the "inerrant, infallible Word of God."

 

I too am a reasonably intelligent person, but I bought into it all hardcore for a very long time. Vigile and I had a conversation not too long ago in another thread about the reason so many of us get sucked into the cult being cultural indoctrination, and that is true. Beyond that, it's brainwashing and FEAR. I wrote this article years ago but I'll post it here and hope it helps:

 

http://religionisbullshit.me/brainwashing-and-fear-the-tools-of-the-church/

 

Hang in there. Many of us here understand exactly how you feel, and we're here for you. Glory!

Both fear, and some strange inability to recognize magic as magic and instead labeling it "the supernatural power of almighty god" factored into my time in the cult as well. Thanks for your kind words.

[UnFundEd]

I made my conversion decision based on a childish fear of monsters. It was then re-enforced with the default cultural respect given to Christianity, and by the many friends I made in church. That kept me locked in a mindset for 30 years, though I occasionally encountered atheist arguments that seemed valid and made me very sad. I chose going with "what I knew was true" rather than actually examining what I had experienced. So, from one perspective I could call myself stupid, but really I had a lot of social reasons for staying that had nothing to do with the validity of the belief. But I'm ever so happy to be out now.

 

Interesting that you should note a fear of monsters. I remember as a child I had nightmares about encountering "satan worshipers" who scared the bejesus out of me. Now that I look back on it, it was pretty silly. Who cares who anybody worships? Why did I imagine that they had some sort of overwhelming power just becasue they worshipped a different imaginary being than I did?

[amateur]

I'll join the ranks of people who felt stupid after completely deconverting and reading stories from the bible again and realizing how openly stupid and fake they were.  After a while you quit feeling so stupid.  After all, you (and I, and many others here) were fed this stuff as true by people (mainly grown-ups like parents and Sunday school teachers and ministers) that we trusted because we were young, and we should be able to trust those grown-ups as telling us the truth.  Even as we got older and had questions, those adults never answered truthfully or with "I don't know."  They always answered, "Just believe," "have faith," or they put it back on us as being in the wrong for questioning god's authority. 

 

We believed because we trusted the grown-ups and people in authority to tell us the truth.  They were the ones who failed us.  After I got over feeling stupid, I felt more like it was way more wrong of those adults to lie to us when we were young.  So I quit feeling so bad about myself.

 

If you came to xianity as an older person, it's the same.  We still need to trust people in authority as telling the truth, especially something we are newly learning about. 

 

The important part is is that we got out and re-read everything and re-thought everything, and we now realize that those stories are totally bonkers!  Imagine still clinging to that shit on your deathbed and having some horrible fear of hell in case you failed somehow! 

 

Learn from what happened and move on.  Learning about Collective Behavior is fascinating!

 

Quit beating yourself up; nobody's perfect!

[milesaway]

I felt stupid when I realized the truth of what xtianity sold me, but not anymore. Please remember that you were sold a bunch of Iron Age folktales written by the products of the time, presented as fact, and that it wasn't your fault. You trusted those authority figures, who probably didn't know any better themselves. However, they had the agency you didn't, b/c you were a kid who didn't know any better. This is how they get kids, and vulnerable adults between a rock and a hard place. They know that kids don't always have the capacity to ask questions and think twice about buying into what an adult tells them. They know that vulnerable adults are at a low point in their lives, and are also less likely to think critically. It's a huge betrayal. 

 

Like amateur said, they're the ones who failed us. They let us down. We placed our trust in them b/c they were authority figures, the promises they gave us seemed so appealing, but in reality they sold us false hopes and superstitions. The good news is you got out. You're free now. 

[UnFundEd]

 

The important part is is that we got out and re-read everything and re-thought everything, and we now realize that those stories are totally bonkers!  Imagine still clinging to that shit on your deathbed and having some horrible fear of hell in case you failed somehow! 

 

 

Good point, amateur. I now find myself listening to xian preaching or music, and just being fascinated by how illogical it is when you're on the outside looking in. One thing I find especially interesting is that their logic walks backward only so far before they get to a "given" beyond which they don't or won't challenge themselves or their audience. Usually that point involves the accuracy of the bible. They insist that their followers "study the bible" but never suggest that we ought to study "about" the bible - including who wrote it, when it was written, why it was written, how it was perceived when it was written, etc. That whole blind spot that they have seems so obvious to me now, but never occurred to me back then.

[UnFundEd]

I felt stupid when I realized the truth of what xtianity sold me, but not anymore. Please remember that you were sold a bunch of Iron Age folktales written by the products of the time, presented as fact, and that it wasn't your fault. You trusted those authority figures, who probably didn't know any better themselves. However, they had the agency you didn't, b/c you were a kid who didn't know any better. This is how they get kids, and vulnerable adults between a rock and a hard place. They know that kids don't always have the capacity to ask questions and think twice about buying into what an adult tells them. They know that vulnerable adults are at a low point in their lives, and are also less likely to think critically. It's a huge betrayal. 

 

Like amateur said, they're the ones who failed us. They let us down. We placed our trust in them b/c they were authority figures, the promises they gave us seemed so appealing, but in reality they sold us false hopes and superstitions. The good news is you got out. You're free now.

 

Thanks milesaway. The point that "[they] failed us" resonates with me. There are some devout friends (family actually) who I have been avoiding contact with because I sort of feel like they will discover (conclude) that I've let them down by not keeping the faith. I need to remember that it is their influence that was not true, and that it was believed and handed down without having due diligence done on it. That is their fault (as they are older than me by a generation).

[rach]

I keep beating myself up years after my deconversion.  How could I possibly have fallen for Christianity when it is so far against my nature and personality?  I do not accept human or animal sacrifice as moral in any way.  And yet Christianity held me in its spell and I took on its way of thinking even though my spirit was going off like a warning siren "danger, danger, danger, wrong, wrong, wrong".  We humans need hope in order to live and promises of brighter days.  It is so easy for us to be swayed into any type of belief system that promises to meet our needs.  That's how so many "good people" became Nazis. 

 

Ultimately it is not my fault I fell for it.  I was taught the doctrines from the time I was a very impressionable and vulnerable child.  I latched onto what I was taught in the same way that I believed in Santa.  I did not possibly imagine that adults would lie to me about Santa, or god.  Also I was confronted with all the promises of Christianity.  Do this, and you'll get that.  The bible is full of these.  God says do this or don't do this, and in exchange, I will keep you safe.  I had absolutely now way of knowing whether any of that was true without trying it out myself.  When I looked at other people and it seemed like the promises of scripture weren't adding up, such as, Christians with horrible diseases or Christians starving in Africa, I simply thought they weren't doing it right.  They must have had secret sins in their life or else God would be providing for them like he promised.  I had to personally test it out and really live the Christian path to experience for myself that the promises didn't add up no matter what I did. 

[mydisplayname]

<snip> That kept me locked in a mindset for 30 years,<snip>

 

 Again I spot the number 30. Some people never buy into it. Some deconvert early. Others deconvert later, but there's a whole bunch of us that took 30 years.

[gall]

Since deconverting, I have experienced a range of emotions, from sadness to anger, and everything in between.

 

At the moment I feel like an idiot.

 

I'm a reasonably intelligent person. How could I have been such a sucker? How could I have bought into the whole thing for so many decades, without questioning any of it? What a patsy! How could it have never dawned on me that the whole thing was made up? Why did it take years for reality to sink in, even after cracks started to appear?

 

I look at christianity now, from the outside looking in, and I'm just astounded. Really I'm utterly fascinated by how it all works. It's a bit of a miracle that so many millions of people are so deluded, and none of them seem to get it. It makes me want to study the dynamics of mass delusion. Can anyone recomend a good place to start that study?

 

it doesn't amaze me at all. People are often far more comfortable fitting in and following than leading themselves. It is normal. I can't say I agree with it but it is normal in our societies.

 

You just rose above. be proud of yourself, you acted on something that many die struggling to believe to the very last moment.

 

I see belief in gods of any type primative behavior but it takes a long time for people to change on mass.

 

Be happy. You have something that many others will never discover. A mind of your own and a will to use it. you are the lucky one.

[amateur]

 

 

The important part is is that we got out and re-read everything and re-thought everything, and we now realize that those stories are totally bonkers!  Imagine still clinging to that shit on your deathbed and having some horrible fear of hell in case you failed somehow! 

 

Good point, amateur. I now find myself listening to xian preaching or music, and just being fascinated by how illogical it is when you're on the outside looking in. One thing I find especially interesting is that their logic walks backward only so far before they get to a "given" beyond which they don't or won't challenge themselves or their audience. Usually that point involves the accuracy of the bible. They insist that their followers "study the bible" but never suggest that we ought to study "about" the bible - including who wrote it, when it was written, why it was written, how it was perceived when it was written, etc. That whole blind spot that they have seems so obvious to me now, but never occurred to me back then.

 

I get a kick out of listening to xian sermons on the radio now, for just that reason!  I can see so easily now where their argument breaks down, or when they just start going on about "so just believe so you don't burn in hell."  Heavy-handed and no logic!

[amateur]

I keep beating myself up years after my deconversion.  How could I possibly have fallen for Christianity when it is so far against my nature and personality?  I do not accept human or animal sacrifice as moral in any way.  And yet Christianity held me in its spell and I took on its way of thinking even though my spirit was going off like a warning siren "danger, danger, danger, wrong, wrong, wrong".  We humans need hope in order to live and promises of brighter days.  It is so easy for us to be swayed into any type of belief system that promises to meet our needs.  That's how so many "good people" became Nazis. 

 

Ultimately it is not my fault I fell for it.  I was taught the doctrines from the time I was a very impressionable and vulnerable child.  I latched onto what I was taught in the same way that I believed in Santa.  I did not possibly imagine that adults would lie to me about Santa, or god.  Also I was confronted with all the promises of Christianity.  Do this, and you'll get that.  The bible is full of these.  God says do this or don't do this, and in exchange, I will keep you safe.  I had absolutely now way of knowing whether any of that was true without trying it out myself.  When I looked at other people and it seemed like the promises of scripture weren't adding up, such as, Christians with horrible diseases or Christians starving in Africa, I simply thought they weren't doing it right.  They must have had secret sins in their life or else God would be providing for them like he promised.  I had to personally test it out and really live the Christian path to experience for myself that the promises didn't add up no matter what I did. 

In fifth grade, our teacher (who we all really liked and respected) did an experiment on us.  It was modeled after a famous experiment where children were told by a trusted authority figure that "blue eyed people were smarter and nicer than brown eyed people."  So our teacher did this to us.  We were a very nice group of kids, and friendly with each other.  But because our teacher told us that the blue eyed kids were smarter and nicer, and she spent all morning doting on the blue eyes and ignoring the brown eyes (and telling them they weren't as smart) we immediately broke into two camps -- the blue eyes vs the brown eyes.  Then after lunch, she said, "I'm so sorry, but I read the data wrong, and it's BROWN EYED people that are smarter and nicer," and she switched on us, treating the brown eyes nicer than us blue eyes.  It really hurt when she turned on me!  Then at the end of the day, she explained that none of that was true, she showed us a short film on the experiment, and told us that was how prejudices start.  We talked about it as a class, and friends had to make up with each other after being mean through the day, and it was amazing how every single one of us fell for it totally.  Not one kid called "Bullshit" or tried to argue with her for switching the data at mid-day.  

 

That day made a huge impression on me.  I could see how easily we completely trusted and believed an authority figure (and one that we all liked and trusted).  I could see how hearing from parents/grandparents "black people are such-and-such" or "gay people -- shudder!" would just put that in somebody's brain forever.  At that age, I knew enough about the Jews in Nazi Germany, and realized how people could so easily be made to believe something.  It was scary how quickly and completely our entire class, and me, bought into the whole thing.

[Deva]

One thing is that Christianity is supported by the culture here (at least where I live in the southern U.S.) like no other religion. Really I did not see this totally until I freed myself from it. The influence is amazing. Nothing last forever though, and I do see Christianity not being given the automatic pass that it got 50 years ago. Its a little more suspect now, due to the influence on politics, it think.

[Geezer]

Once you realize Christianity is a cult and that you were brainwashed into believing their doctrines and traditions you begin to see why you believed the things you did. Cults turn their adherents into mind numb robots though endless indoctrination. Brainwashing is an effective way of taking control of another persons mind, and religion is probably the most effective mass indoctrination machine ever devised by man. And for that reason alone it should be feared.

 

When a person is able to see the fallacy of the teaching, traditions, and beliefs for themselves that is a clear indication they have regained control of their mind. At that point you have severed the ability of the cult to control you and you have become truly free, maybe for the first time in your life.

[UnFundEd]

Once you realize Christianity is a cult and that you were brainwashed into believing their doctrines and traditions you begin to see why you believed the things you did. Cults turn their adherents into mind numb robots though endless indoctrination. Brainwashing is an effective way of taking control of another persons mind, and religion is probably the most effective mass indoctrination machine ever devised by man. And for that reason alone it should be feared.

 

When a person is able to see the fallacy of the teaching, traditions, and beliefs for themselves that is a clear indication they have regained control of their mind. At that point you have severed the ability of the cult to control you and you have become truly free, maybe for the first time in your life.

There was a moment a couple of years ago when I happened to turn on K-Love (Xian radio) as I was getting ready in the morning. They were running a promotion asking people to make a commitment to listen only to Xian music for a whole month. This happened for two or three days in a row, and something deep inside me just revolted against the brainwashing. I turned it off and didn't listen to K-Love for about a year after that.

 

The concept of brainwashing isn't something that I have spent much time pondering since my deconversion, though. Maybe I need to look at that at some point.

[Margee]

 

The concept of brainwashing isn't something that I have spent much time pondering since my deconversion, though. Maybe I need to look at that at some point.

 

UnFundEd, I was a very naive person all of my life. Humans just tend to trust from childhood what people tell you.

 

I have posted this article many times on brainwashing. Brainwashing is an extremely interesting topic because it is so easy to do. One sentence can brainwash a person. I take everything with a grain of salt now. 

 

The power of suggestion to the brain is mind boggling. Say this sentence out loud 3 times: ''Today, when I see any red car, I will automatically think of EX-c website.''              Report to us later........

 

Hope this article helps a little.

Hug

 

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-deprogram.html

[Brother Jeff]

 

 

The concept of brainwashing isn't something that I have spent much time pondering since my deconversion, though. Maybe I need to look at that at some point.

 

UnFundEd, I was a very naive person all of my life. Humans just tend to trust from childhood what people tell you.

 

I have posted this article many times on brainwashing. Brainwashing is an extremely interesting topic because it is so easy to do. One sentence can brainwash a person. I take everything with a grain of salt now. 

 

The power of suggestion to the brain is mind boggling. Say this sentence out loud 3 times: ''Today, when I see any red car, I will automatically think of EX-c website.''              Report to us later........

 

Hope this article helps a little.

Hug

 

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-deprogram.html

 

 

Thanks for the glorious article, Sister Margee! Whenever I see my blue drinking glass I will think of Ex-C! Glory!

[amateur]

 

 

 

The concept of brainwashing isn't something that I have spent much time pondering since my deconversion, though. Maybe I need to look at that at some point.

 

UnFundEd, I was a very naive person all of my life. Humans just tend to trust from childhood what people tell you.

 

I have posted this article many times on brainwashing. Brainwashing is an extremely interesting topic because it is so easy to do. One sentence can brainwash a person. I take everything with a grain of salt now. 

 

The power of suggestion to the brain is mind boggling. Say this sentence out loud 3 times: ''Today, when I see any red car, I will automatically think of EX-c website.''              Report to us later........

 

Hope this article helps a little.

Hug

 

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-deprogram.html

 

 

Thanks for the glorious article, Sister Margee! Whenever I see my blue drinking glass I will think of Ex-C! Glory!

 

Excellent article!  I liked where it pointed out "don't beat yourself up" because that is so true.  What happened, happened.  Now we are all waking up and deciding what we truly believe.