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Goodbye Jesus

How Do You Know...a Psychopath?


moanareina

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Hi guys. OK, I guess I ll make a complete fool out of me with this post but somehow I have the need to write it down and get some feedback on it...

 

So about one year and six months ago I dated a guy. It was a short story but somehow a weird one too that kept my mind busy for a while. Just last week I saw a message in a special folder on facebook that I had not seen before and it was a girl who tried to warn me from this guy. Now this message was not really current anymore but I thought I might write her anyways just to find out what this was all about.

 

Now here's the story: I met this guy at a concert at a bar and we had some good talk, though I knew he was quite the opposite of me. I am more the calm person and he was pretty outgoing and all. When the concert came to an end we stayed and kept on talking...he gave me his contacts and I went home. Then I added him on FB I think and he asked me out and so we met. We had a fun day together, he showed me a nice coffee place I have not known and other things. Only thing, he was a bit nervous, but I thought that was just his temper. He told me how he served in the army (he has double citizenship) and went to the middle east and all...and that he worked for some kind of security firm he could talk too much about. Now he always had the right stories to make his claims appear to be real. He told me about his family, how he and his sister grew up at his aunt's house because his mom died when he was little and his dad could not deal with the fact that his sister reminded him of his wife...and how his sister started to drink because of that and finally died (not sure if she committed suicide or what). He told me about his great love and how he lost her because of alcohol too...and about some other crazy girlfriend who sold his dog to take revenge because she was jealous about some stuff.

I know I should have known by then that he was not the kind of person I should be dating and not even hang out with. But he was very charming too and it was hard to believe he would be a bad person.

 

I was at his place and he presented it to me as his own...only one room was locked, where he told me he has lost his keys to which I had found weird but left it at that. The flat really looked like a single guys flat, sparsely furnished, here a sock on the floor and no indicator that there had been other people living there.

At one point he told me he could not see me anymore (by text) because he was an asshole. I did not understand what he meant because I assumed he was talking about his time at the army when he told me that he thought about all the bad he had done in his life and he did not want to lay any of it on me since he thought I was a good person. I know that was stupid but I at least wanted to have an eye to eye talk with him. So all of a sudden he changed his mind and presented me a story of a stalker who would camp out in his yard and bother him and who found out he had seen me and knew my address and he did not want me to get into this. It sounded strange and all but still, I thought he was a crazy person and gave him the benefit of a doubt but not without making a mental note to myself. Anyways...we met again and the same day he sent me a text that he could not be with me. And asked me if I hated him now. After some back and forth texting we agreed to stay in contact but be friends only. I know that is stupid but when feelings are involved...so he kept contacting me and I was a bit confused by it but thought well, whatever.

He always had excuses for not being available...and they had been job related. 

 

Now at the end he started to tell me obvious BS and I asked him about it in the chat on FB. I tried not to be too confrontational and went more like: Hey, you told me about this and as much as I understand it, you made a joke, right? His immediate reaction was: No why? Do you have a problem with it? So I went on to ask him another question about it that he could not answer if he was lying to me and of course he reacted just how someone reacts when caught lying...he told me I should be ashamed of myself to interrogate friends to find out the truth...that this was an insult and that loyalty and honor would go a very long way. Then he blocked me and unfriended me (which today I am more than thankful and glad but then felt quite crazy). I always wondered why he had the need to tell me such fairy tales. It never really made sense to me until...yes until I contacted this girl last week and got the whole picture.

 

This guy has made up his whole identity. All his family story...just invented. He had been adopted and was still living at his parent's while in his thirties already (yeah, the locked room...). When I was visiting him he complained about his cousin who would smoke pot all day and play video games and do nothing else. He complained about his aunt that he thought it was wrong of her to tolerate such behavior and that she should stop helping him financially. He even told me how they destroyed his cousins game console once and how he just went to buy a new one...thing is...he has no cousin. And I think he has been talking about himself...his weird job...probably...just video games. All his stories...came from video games. Somehow he invented his whole live and persona...through video games. I just checked his profile picture he has on WhattsApp...and it looks like he attends weird shooter meetings with other crazy weird freaks...three people all geared up in military cloth...all his excuses he came up with for not being able to make it on time or even make it to see me...video games...and the stalker...of course this other girl he was dating and having some kind of relationship for a few months by then...while having another girlfriend. How convenient...She told me he would still stalk HER...sending her weekly messages and photos of his genitals even though she is no contact with him. That he beat her twice and abused her mentally when they where together.

 

In this context all his messages about him being a bad person make so much more sense and I feel quite stupid...well I felt stupid before but this gives another dimension to it...for having been interested in this guy. But well, here comes the thing. Most guys I have fallen in love with (and I have to say, I had not really lost myself with this guy but it could have happened if he was more flirtatious and all) had some sociopathic aspects to them. But somehow this one has topped them all. Just recently I read this article about how children who grow up in a christian home and get read bible stories as facts to them have difficulties to tell a fairy tale from reality. And somehow this is how I feel when it comes to people. Thinking of this story I really feel like the whole world is mental and I can't really trust anyone. Who is telling me real stuff and who is just making things up? Especially at work...we have so many people who tell all kinds of stories...When someone tells you something personal...how do you know he is real and not making it up to get some attention? Especially when you need to meet new people because there are not many friends left from your former christian life...I mean, this is an extreme story and I don't think something like it will happen to me again. But just with normal people...what is it that tells you someone is OK and someone else isn't? I mean, I had a complete psychopath in my apt. and I was absolutely not aware of how mental this guy was. To think about it is pretty weird...

 

I don't know but is there anyone who can relate?

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I've run into some psychos in my time. Just chalk it up to experience.

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Sounds like he has some actual psychopathic behaviors. A few typical traits: a person with no sense of regret, remorse, or shame; tends to blame others for his own actions; overblown or grandiose sense of self; incapable of actual affection; tends towards violence. Sounds just like the god of the Bible... and you are better off without any contact.

 

Some think this is primarily a genetic disorder - they simply are not wired normally. They can appear completely at ease after being caught in an outright lie, even in the midst of murder. They don't feel anything but perhaps annoyance at others.

 

I had a friend go through a manic phase once where he had a very strong overblown sense of self, but hadn't lost his senses of compassion, remorse or shame. Different critter entirely.

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I've been studying this for  over a year now. I love to study human behavior. The Narcissistic, Sociopath and psychopath are so closely intertwined that they share many of the same symptoms. Not all these people are violent. In fact, the biggest majority aren't. The biggest thing they all have in common is a lack of empathy for the hurt they cause others. We all have the ''dark side'' traits to a certain degree but it's the empathy that is missing in these people. It's very interesting and eye opening.

 

Here are some of the general characteristics:

 

http://forum2.aimoo.com/NARCISSISTICPERSONALITYDISORDER/m/THE-NARCISSIST-Read-Only/20-Traits-of-Malignant-Narcissistic-Personality-Disorder-1-285326.html

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Just to look at the other side of the coin:

 

I went to high school with two guys a bit like this. They made up entire lives and relationships. One guy was apparently some sort of music executive earning over $100,000 a year. His story changed all the time though, most of them focused on him being rich and successful. A good friend of mine saw him sleeping on a park bench after a late night out, and probably a couple days after the music executive story. The other guy apparently was a butcher, had gotten married and just recently had a kid (he developed the story over 2 years from initially meeting her, to her getting pregnant to finally having the kid). I had less reason to be suspicious of this guy as I actually got on the bus with him to town on most mornings. Fast forward to a year or so after having the kid and I meet his younger brother on a bus into town and have a bit of a chat with him. I ask him about his brother's kid and he looks at me like I had an extra head or something. After some explanation he just laughs. His brother lives at home and as a part of an arrangement he had to continue to get benefits he worked in a deli a couple times a week.

 

In my experience, these sorts of people deal with a tremendous sense of inferiority. They often have terrible upbringings and don't really have much in their life to share with people. Imagine people are sitting around talking about the playful mischief they got up to while in school and all you remember of school is being constantly picked on while at school and then going home to a parent who suffered from a drug problem dead on your kitchen floor. No one wants to hear your depressing upbringing and people will push going "come on, surely you did something stupid at school? you can't tell me there was NOTHING interesting?" and thus a lie is born and eventually with time it becomes a lifestyle. As you can somewhat tell, their experience somewhat resonates with me as I dealt with this as a teen growing up but eventually outgrew it. So yeah, I'm not sure the people I knew were psychopaths, but I can certainly empathise with how they got that way. 

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You are being so hard on yourself.  This was a learning experience.  You are going to be more cautious and less trusting of people in the future which is a good thing.  You had no way of knowing this guy was troubled, until over time his condition revealed itself to you because the things he was claiming weren't adding up. 

 

I used to tell lies all the time.  "My dad this" and "my dad that".  I would brag about my dad to other children.  I would tell them "my dad is rich" and "my dad can't be here right now because he's in china" and all of that.  The lies became more elaborate and extensive as I retreated more and more into a fantasy world where I actually had a dad.  These kind of lies come from a place of deep wounds in the heart.  Because I did not have a dad.  The other children did, I became insanely jealous of them, and had to turn to a very rich fantasy life to create a dad, to try to make them jealous of me.  People will go to extremes when they feel like they are less than what other people are. 

 

I don't think this man was lying to intentionally hurt people.  I think that like me, he has had serious emotional damage.  His coping mechanism has been to turn to fantasy to create a new life for himself and try to convince others to join in to his fantasy life.  He is not healthy enough to have a relationship with anyone.  He needs to get his own self sorted.  I've kind of sort of fixed myself.  I don't lie anymore.  I used to spend hours daydreaming about what me and my dad would do together and how he would treat me and how he'd look and everything.  In my mind I could create an entire day of interactions and conversations between me and my "fantasy family" and our "fantasy house" and our "fantasy lives".  I think it is simply that the mind or emotions can be wounded to such an extent that, for a time, we might end up retreating from reality, and find our retreat in the fantasy world.  It took time till I realized that no matter how much time, effort and energy I poured into my fantasies, I cannot possibly make them come true, and only hurt myself with disappointments when the fantasies fail to become realities.  This man is either going to continue living in his fantasy bubble or he is going to realize that the fantasies don't pay off, and it pushes people away when they find out that the real him is not the persona he has created. 

 

I don't think he's really a psychopath.  I think he doesn't like himself, or his life, so he's created another self that he thinks people will like better.  Many people do this. 

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I think he has studied the persona of a psychopath pretty well...for whatever reason...maybe because he knows he is one. He once showed me a paragraph about it in a book that described all kinds of psychological issues and said, he was interested in psychology because he wanted to find out why people turn bad do bad stuff. He told me he had a degree in criminology from the country he was from. I guess he must have studied it all well because when we went to town he helped older ladies int the bus and always looked out to be courteous towards others.

 

And yes I think he has a very low self esteem. He constantly had to brag about his body on FB and also he constantly told me about his sportive activities. And he had to confirm he was not gay over and over without anyone assuming it anyways.

 

The reason I am so hard on myself with this is, that I felt there was something not good and I ignored it completely. He was good at making me think I was shy and should not be so fearful etc. Actually he mentioned this as a reason for not wanting to be with me and being just friends instead. That he wanted someone with less fears. He constantly asked me about my fears and why I was so fearful. That was pretty confusing because I really could not tell I had those fears and all...but now of course it makes sense because he just used this to make me do what he wanted to and then to put the blame on me.

 

Yes Margee, he constantly blamed other people for his short comings. Like he always said he had difficulties to adjust to Swiss mentality. Which I can understand by the way and that makes it so much more convenient to use...but he took it kinda too far. He was like: You know, it is hard to make friends here. He actually told me he was only here for two years...and that must be a lie as well because I have another friend who once had online conversations with this guy on a dating platform and that has been more than two years ago...So every time he did not get along with someone...which was almost everyone...it was the mentality. Not him. And when he told me how shameful I was and all he too was like: This is typically Swiss...

 

Rach

I can relate to your story since I had some fantasies of my own when I was little. But I think the difference is that you at one point realized what you where doing and how it was not doing you any good. That means, you grew up. This guy though is in his thirties. He has several educations he started and quit. His adopting parents would have payed for any education. Now he has nothing, no job, worked at two bars when I got to know him and I think that might actually be true...also I could verify it by going there and ask...but he was losing those jobs...while he told me he quit because he did not get along with the boss because he was too nice to his customers...So basically his whole life is a pretense. I also think he goes to some shooter meetings where they act like in a video game or so (kind of like cos play events...just military style) and that is where he has his 'job' and 'military' photos from. You see, it is not just telling stories and he made up his story to the point it is consistent. He told the same stuff to this other girl who now gets harassed by him. He still sends her naked pictures of himself and contacts her weekly for no other reason than to bother her. All he has is a pumped up body and several thousands of $ of debts. And he is in his thirties. All his life is just a game which is sad and impressive at the same time. I do wonder though how much he really understands what he is doing and how much he just lives in a world that has gotten out of control at some point in his life. At least I made him think about what he has done and tried to find a way to 'get rid' of me...get me out of the game. If this has to do with me being smart enough to actually realize he was all fake and he could not play that game with me to the end or with my employer that made him do so...who knows. But somehow it seems he might have told me that obvious BS on purpose because he wanted to not be involved with me anymore. And now I am glad he did. Though I feel sorry for this guy and I feel sorry for his adopting parents. Now at the same time I ask myself how he could become this way. From what this girl is telling me his adopting parents are quite lovely people and his adopting mom helped her to deal with this shit. But then too I think this girl has issues and she told me she was in therapy for years and before she met him already.

 

And yes, I really hope this helps me to spot this sort of people better. Though it is not really cool to as soon as I get to know someone think: Is this person really who he pretends to be? To question everything and especially the personal stories one is telling me...Then at the same time maybe this is exactly what I should do and due to my christian upbringing have neglected so many times. Because in Christianity you somehow where supposed to love everybody and be kind to everyone and accept everyone since Jesus accepted everyone etc. Then even the humanistic approach of being kind to others always because we never know what someone has been through bla bla...actually does the same. Also people keep reacting like I would be a mean person when I tell them about guys who wanted to date me but I was not in for it. They go as if I would not give anyone a chance. That maybe I just had to get to know someone. They think I am unhappy being single because they are unhappy being single...and can't understand that I am not actively looking for someone. That I am perfectly fine being with no one. I hate that. Because really, I don't know if I want to be with someone. At the moment I am enjoying life as it is with all the possibilities I have that I would not have if in a relationship and with children. Whenever I dated someone I felt like something is entrapping me. And I just enjoy the freedom I have. Maybe I have not met the one person who would not make me feel that way but then...so it is.

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I also think a person can 'grow' some of these traits over their lifetime. I know I have. I'm a much harder hearted person than I used to be. I watched a documentary last night that made my stomach turn. (about human nature) I'm like you moan, I'm not sure who to trust anymore. I once trusted all of life. I easily believed in Santa Clause so I easily believed in God. I easily believed in love. Now, sometimes, I feel like an animal who is out to protect myself from getting anymore hurt. I protect my heart as much as I can from anymore hurt. I absolutely hate being lied to and the worst lie I had to face was about God. It nearly destroyed me. I do not say this as a pity ploy...it's just a fact. 

 

I admit that some of my trust issues started right from childhood. I grew up in an extremely dysfunctional family. I know they tried their best, but it still had an impact on my life. I isolate from people now. I don't even contribute to face book. I just sit there and read. I still try everything in my power to be loving and kind. If I am 'let down' in the slightest now, it hurts my heart too much. I have no problem admitting that I am 'damaged goods'. I do try to keep my mind as healthy as I can and I do try to keep as good an attitude as I can.

 

It's all so interesting.

 

P.S.  By the way, as I study psychopathy, the christian god is at the top of the list and pastors are extremely high also!!!

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And yes, I really hope this helps me to spot this sort of people better. Though it is not really cool to as soon as I get to know someone think: Is this person really who he pretends to be? To question everything and especially the personal stories one is telling me...

I think part of life is that we have to trust one another to an extent.  We can't go through life questioning and doubting everyone and everything.  But also we have to be on the alert for red flags, and this man has some serious red flags.  There's a fine line between reasonable trusting and unreasonable trusting.  I think reasonable trust is to believe the best about people while you still know that humans are frail creatures capable of every kind of moral failing.  Unreasonable trusting is that starry-eyed stuff that I used to have towards Jesus and my fellow human beings, which is absolute unshakable trust and refusal to acknowledge that they might let me down, or be less than they make themselves out to be. 

 

What I would do is simply watch out for red flags.  There's a big difference between somebody who tells lies from time to time (we all do that) and somebody who is a compulsive liar.  Or somebody who brags from time to time (ok) or someone who brags about themselves constantly and is completely self-absorbed and narcissistic (red flag). 

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Margee

 

What you are saying sounds interesting. So you think, aside from hard core psychopaths who are wired that way by their DNA, everyone has some psychopatic traits and depending on various factors one develops them further and others don't.

 

While going through some crisis this spring I actually wondered about myself as well...if I had some psychopatic traits. It somehow bothered me and I was a little scared. Now on good days when I feel well and all I am more empathetic then when I feel depressed. I guess that also plays into it? Then again at the same time I am less empathic to other stuff. Hm...

 

Ah, we humans are such complex beings.

 

 

And yes rach, the red flags...thing is, guys like him have something that makes you oversee those flags and if you see them then you question them instead of listening to them. At least that is how I felt. And the thing is, he was not the only one who I acted that way, he was just the one who takes it to the most extreme. I fell in love with two guys in my past who where charming and pretended and at the end turned out they where not one bit interested in me. But they somehow managed to get my feelings. Then I halfway fell in love with a guy who was an alcoholic. We stayed friends for three years until I finally had to quit this friendship because of the emotional abuse happening...and even though we where just friends it hurt as if we had been together. Most of my encounters with men have been abusive in a way. Especially since I left Church and religion. Before I never really met a guy who was interested in me and those who where where easy to ignore because they simply just where not my type of guys AT ALL...and weirdos who where after every girl...or whatever...like obviously sticky guys (you talk to them once and they have this look and then you can't get rid of em unless you ignore them completely).

 

It is very interesting as this story unfolds. I think it would be material for a book or a movie. I have to think about that. Since a while I am actually thinking about writing a book. So maybe in two to three years you will see my name in every bookstore...haha...

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I came very close to hiring a guy who was apparently a sociopath. He was incredibly smart, self-confident, charismatic. Luckily I checked his references. His name didn't even match his ID but he explained that he was being adopted by his father in law and changing his name. Even after discovering this issue, I still wanted to hire him. Luckily I called his previous employer. Normally employers are very tight-lipped and will only confirm employment. This employer paused and then said something like "all I'm going to say is a few years ago we were growing and we had a few very bad employees". (eeek!)

 

So I don't blame you for being fooled. Those people are amazingly charismatic and persuasive.

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Margee

 

What you are saying sounds interesting. So you think, aside from hard core psychopaths who are wired that way by their DNA, everyone has some psychopatic traits and depending on various factors one develops them further and others don't.

 

 

Ah, we humans are such complex beings.

 

 

 

 Yes moan, as long as you are human, I believe we all have some of the negative traits to a certain degree.

 

 And yes, 'life's circumstances' have made me into a much 'harder hearted' person. The thing is to not get bitter about it. I don't want to turn bitter and I have to fight that.

 

 I have much to do today, but I'll get back and post on this a little later. I love these type of discussions on human behavior.

 

Hugs to all....

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It is about three years ago now that a friend of mine who is studying psychology posted an article about sociopaths. I thought it was interesting but the thought that there where people born that way was too much for me to imagine. I always thought people where born good and made bad. Now when I go through the list of guys that let me down or who where interested in me but fought some serious issues like alcoholism I do see a pattern. They all where very charming and had a way of making me feel special that I was not really aware of. At the same time they kept a distance (except the alcoholic guy who tried to suck in ALL of my time...and energy) and had a way of making me feel inferior and bad about myself and thinking highly of them even though they treated me in ways I would not want to be treated. I don't know much about all of them, actually I don't know much about any of them except the alcoholic guy but I guess that is a different story even though he had the sociopathic traits clearly and especially when drunk...when sober he was a different man...but how can I trust he did not play a game with me then because when sober he was quite in control of his behavior while when veeeeeeeery drunk he just wasn't. Now for the guy I was talking about in my initial post I can imagine he had some trauma that has never been taken a look at from the adoption. The other guys I can't really say if something had been going wrong in their childhood. They seemed to come from a fine background but who knows.

 

I guess I could have turned psychopathic. The way I grew up and all...and there have been times I wondered about my level of empathy. Then again I watch some video clip with people who get hurt in accidents or so and I almost feel the pain.

 

I guess the interesting question is, if psychopaths have no empathy, is it possible for them to be happy without having to hurt others? When does a sociopath turn dangerous? I mean they can be dangerous already by the mere existence and their manipulative characters if developed but what I mean is, when does a psychopath turn dangerous as putting others lives in danger.

 

And ah...you know...when I understood the level of deception this guy had played on me I was amazed and it has been clear to me he is a psychopath. Now, a few days later, my mind already started to downplay the events...singling out the good...finding excuses for the bad. Crazy mind. That is why it gets me into trouble with guys...

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Just something else that came to mind. I have constantly been told as a child into my adulthood to be too sensitive. Especially in seventh though ninth grade I had trouble because of that and was an outcast. I spent all the breaks alone and those breaks can be looooooong when alone...and feeling so inferior and anxious. I got mocked because I would cry fast...Instead of trying to help me everyone just told me to get a "thicker skin", ignoring the mocking, whatsoever. When I started my apprenticeship I always wanted to be harder. In my teens I started to listen to heavy metal and then harder stuff. Christian versions though...haha...but still. Then when I did my apprenticeship and was more independent I met those group of people who where Christians but punks and through some of those people I got into hardcore music and all. My goal was to be the hard person who does not care what others think of it...

At one point I realized what I was doing to myself and how I was rejecting the real me. I guess I was on my way to become pretty crazy if I had not taken that moment of thought seriously...

 

PS. I still like rock music, punk and all...but the stuff that sounds all just like noise is not my preference and I was just listening to that stuff because I thought the harder the music the harder the person...of course I don't judge others who love that stuff in that manner...just to clarify.

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Thinking about this some more...

 

There are some questions in my mind.

 

They say, a psychopath has no conscience. And not empathy. Now, how much does a psychopath understand that when he is hurting others, what he is doing is bad? How much is he doing it because it is bad?

 

Can there be good psychopaths. Means, people who are aware of their condition but decided to be nice people not trying to fulfill their needs by using others...or people who are not aware of their condition but because they have been brought up in a loving home they never really had the need to hurt people and due to their parents parenting method they understand how a good person acts and all. Like a mature psychopath sorta.

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Thinking about this some more...

 

There are some questions in my mind.

 

They say, a psychopath has no conscience. And not empathy. Now, how much does a psychopath understand that when he is hurting others, what he is doing is bad? How much is he doing it because it is bad?

 

Can there be good psychopaths. Means, people who are aware of their condition but decided to be nice people not trying to fulfill their needs by using others...or people who are not aware of their condition but because they have been brought up in a loving home they never really had the need to hurt people and due to their parents parenting method they understand how a good person acts and all. Like a mature psychopath sorta.

That's an interesting question. It seems like it should be possible, but I'm not an expert.

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Thomas Sheridan has alot of interesting interviews about psychopaths,very illuminating. heres one

 

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My brother is currently not speaking to my sister or me, because he met a girl online who we know is not who she claims he is, and we tried to warn him, and he got super pissed and quit talking to us. She is a 23-year-old girl who claims to be a sergeant in the NYPD. One needs to be a minimum of 26 years old to be a sergeant. We called the precinct where she said she works, and they've never heard of her. She also claims to have had a record deal. My brother says he is in love with her and she is the girl he's going to marry. I really hope he learns the truth sooner rather than later.

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Thomas Sheridan has alot of interesting interviews about psychopaths,very illuminating. heres one

 

 

 

Whow...just listened twenty min into that video and must say it describes this guy I dated into detail...crazy. Glad to be wiser now and I mean, I dated a psychopath. Thanks for sharing.

 

 

My brother is currently not speaking to my sister or me, because he met a girl online who we know is not who she claims he is, and we tried to warn him, and he got super pissed and quit talking to us. She is a 23-year-old girl who claims to be a sergeant in the NYPD. One needs to be a minimum of 26 years old to be a sergeant. We called the precinct where she said she works, and they've never heard of her. She also claims to have had a record deal. My brother says he is in love with her and she is the girl he's going to marry. I really hope he learns the truth sooner rather than later.

 

 

So sorry to hear. I have completely fallen in love with a guy from work once and shortly after it turned out he was just playing with me I read an article about sociopaths and thought, he had a lot of those traits but it was hard to accept that as fact. Looking back now I think he might be a psychopath. However, back then I was so crazy for him, no one who would have warned me would have gotten through to me. It was the first and only time I felt so attracted to someone that I had to contain myself to not just go ahead and kiss him.

What helped me somewhat to see the truth was, that another friend from work whom I spent much time with to study at the library lives in the same neighborhood and saw him making out with another girl. It broke my heart and I had a hard time to believe it. So lets hope your brother will see through her scam and understand what he has gotten himself into. Now I think it is hard to blame him because those people can be so charming and know just how to say the right words at the right time, do the right things...

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OK, I listened to some more of that video and some of it makes sense but some of it sounds pretty off to me. Somehow it seems to me like this Thomas Sheridan creates a myth figure and makes it an us and them issue. Like there are psychopaths and there are humans. Kind of like this article posted in the lions den about psychopaths not being human beings. He seems to be very imbalanced in his views and to me he sounds pretty much like a conspiracy theorist. I also feel like he is so obsessed with it that he is not able to be critical about himself anymore.

 

I too don't think you need to have an academic title to be an expert on a topic but to me his bashing on earned (by education) titles sounds pretty much like everyone who has dropped out of school and is doing his thing now, telling everyone you don't need an education to be successful. While this can be true to a certain degree they often don't see that they might be successful, but they still lack some important understanding and therefore will never really get the full understanding of what they are doing.

 

His anti psychology/psychiatry rambling sounds quite like those scientology campaigns.

 

Do others feel that way too?

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I've found, over time, to trust people but to keep some distance until you know them enough.  Meeting a new person for either a friendship or dating is great, but keep things in public until you feel like they are being truthful and consistent with you.  Meet for coffee or dinner or lunch, but make sure it's in public.  Don't get in a car with someone, or let them in your car, until you know them enough to be very comfortable with them.  Don't go to their house or apartment, or let them to yours, again until you feel comfortable with them.

 

It's good if it's possible to meet a friend of two of theirs in public, or if you can bring a friend or two of yours along for dinner or drinks (a double date) so you can get a clue from their friends if everything seems normal, or you can get feedback from your friend about how they felt about the new person.  You can also see how the person acts around your friends, and see if their personality or way of talking or acting seems different than alone with you.

 

Spend time on the phone together to get a good feel if they're being consistent in their stories.  Check out their facebook page or other social media.  

 

It just makes sense to get to know someone enough to feel comfortable and safe with them before spending any alone time with them, or establishing a "relationship."  It also makes it easier to end things if you're feeling like there's something wrong.

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OK, I listened to some more of that video and some of it makes sense but some of it sounds pretty off to me. Somehow it seems to me like this Thomas Sheridan creates a myth figure and makes it an us and them issue. Like there are psychopaths and there are humans. Kind of like this article posted in the lions den about psychopaths not being human beings. He seems to be very imbalanced in his views and to me he sounds pretty much like a conspiracy theorist. I also feel like he is so obsessed with it that he is not able to be critical about himself anymore.

 

I too don't think you need to have an academic title to be an expert on a topic but to me his bashing on earned (by education) titles sounds pretty much like everyone who has dropped out of school and is doing his thing now, telling everyone you don't need an education to be successful. While this can be true to a certain degree they often don't see that they might be successful, but they still lack some important understanding and therefore will never really get the full understanding of what they are doing.

 

His anti psychology/psychiatry rambling sounds quite like those scientology campaigns.

 

Do others feel that way too?

 

Yes actually i forgot about that bit about his bashing qualifications, I'm not keen on that bit and agree with you.I also felt like that.In other interviews; I think he reveals some of his reasons for that as he talks about society being psychopathic and I have some suspicions about this view too.He is a conspiracy theorist although he defiantly does not follow the sort of reptilian stuff.I am ok with that side of him but to others especially ex Christians I can see that being a problem.

One of the reasons I posted a link to him is that  I thought it was quite an accessible resource to look at the experience of having had a psychopath come into your life and make some sense of it.I have had this experience about two years ago with someone I came to mistakenly regard as a good friend however in the end they caused utter chaos and devastation..The experiencing of listening to Sheridan's  interviews on the subject has helped me as I reflected back on this and other shorter experiences with possibly psychopathic people or perhaps just narcissists or loony bastards.

I suspect his 'us and them' stance comes from his own negative experience with one or more in his own life as it is pretty strong and its not something i share with Sheridan.I suppose too its his natural conclusion of viewing them as predators.I've used his work to build up a personal schema of how to deal with people presenting like this in the future whom I encounter; I'm gny follow Sheridan's suggestion and simply have nothing to do with them after recognizing a few traits when I see them, they may not be psychopaths but I needed a better way to screen out assholes of either gender.Christianity was especially damaging to me as it kept me for many years out of situations where i might have built up a better resistance to such people and the years of deconversion have revealed this naivety of mine,socially which is something i have had to work on alot.

 

I have no experience with Scientology so cannot comment on that.

 

So yeah i thought he was helpful but you have made some  criticisms of his approach which I think are totally valid.

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I dated one of these a few bf's back. The hallmarks are pathological lying, no conscience, lack of empathy, and typically...they're calculated.

 

But, that is after you have been played for a while, or after it's over, that you look back over all the red flags you somehow missed. How about in the beginning? What can you look for to tell if you might be involved with a psychopath? After dating that douche, I started researching about all of his traits, and ran across a blog about psychopathy, and narcissistic personality disorder.

 

In the beginning stages of a love relationship, psychopaths typically will be overwhelmingly charming...excessive texting, often at the exact same times every day. Constant calling, etc. It seems romantic, but it soon becomes smothering. They are sometimes possessive, and jealous -- but it soon gives way to treating you poorly. After he realized I was falling in love with him, he decided to pull back. I had come to find out he was cheating on me, and when we were together, he rarely complimented me anymore, and all it seemed to be about was him. He was rude to the wait staff at restaurants, and his own mother. I remember witnessing the most horrible conversations between him and his mother. (RUN FOR YOUR LIFE, LADIES IF A MAN TREATS HIS MOTHER LIKE SHIT!)

 

I broke things off with him, and he would start ''appearing'' everywhere I was, out of the blue. I don't like the word 'stalking,' but it seemed like that's what he was doing. Meanwhile, he was seeing two other girls, one of which he cheated on me with...but they don't like letting go of their possessions. You are nothing more than a possession to be used and tossed away, to a psychopath. But, he didn't like his toy leaving, so he kept it up for a good while. Eventually, he gave up when he realized I wasn't going back.

 

They are calculated. I have a lot to work on still when it comes to standing up for myself, and not letting people step on me. Psychopaths almost have radar for finding vulnerable people to prey upon.

 

Hugs for anyone here who's had to deal with one.

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I have found in studying human behavior that the 'professionals' have many names for many types of behavior. The biggest conclusion I have come to is this. Love shouldn't hurt. If someone you supposedly love hurts you, it should be talked about openly. If you tell a spouse, lover, friend, family member that what they are doing is hurting you and they do not make any (long term) attempts to change that behavior....then run. What I have found is that people will try to change at first because they know they are ready to lose you, but their attempts don't last very long and it goes back to the same ole' thing. People want their cake and eat it too. They want you in their life but don't truly want to make the changes required to have a peaceful relationship.

 

Take for instance the non-believer who tells their spouse (or family) that they no longer believe in a deity. The spouse or family have to make one decision.... to accept and love that person for who they are. If they don't accept the loved one who has become a non-believer, the battle of wills begins. Silent treatments, ignoring, not discussing things openly and maturely, defensiveness, skirting around the issue and hatefulness. Most people want to be 'right'. So the false mask of 'ego' will start to appear because so many have to be 'right'. It's our biggest problem on earth. We don't want to be inferior. We have a hard time saying that we've made many mistakes or that we've failed in many areas of our lives. If only we could be truly open with each other, I think the people on earth could work things out so much better. But the false ego of being 'right' separates us.

 

 The true psychopath, from what I'm reading, who hasn't got a conscience and actually enjoys hurting people....these are the ones we need to be very careful of because they will charm the pants off you in the beginning. The first red flag to me, is being able to hurt an animal.

 

A 'non-violent' psychopath or any other personality 'disorder' that lacks empathy just simply doesn't really care if they hurt you in any kind of heartbreak. They may apologize but it's not sincere and it's only to get them off the hook. They go back to the same ole' behavior quickly. They can walk away easily and move on to their next targets. Humans that have any kind of true empathy will do everything in their power not to hurt that loved one again.

 

There are so many categories for personality disorders. We have the con man, the narcissist...the disorders are many. I have recognized lots of traits within myself that I am really working on. Not to become 'perfect' by any means but I know I have the ability to hurt  because of the false ego mask I wear sometimes. I don't want to hurt anyone on purpose. As hard hearted as I have become, I still grieve even when an insect is trapped. But I was born with an extremely sensitive personality. I wanted to please everyone and I also would cry at the drop of a pin if someone din't like me. Not anymore...that's where I've grown up. Some people like a person with a sensitive personality and some will think it's phony. Right now, I am losing thousands of dollars because I cannot finish a 'discovery' with the insurance people. These psychopaths within the insurance industry want to destroy any dignity that I have left (so they don't have to pay me out) and I won't allow them to. Let them take their money and shove it up their arse. I don't allow anyone to abuse me anymore, not even to 'win' their money. (Sorry, I got off track with my rant)

 

Anyway, as I have already posted that I think human behavior is one of the most interesting topics I've ever studied. Evolution of the human brain and why so may people are different has given me so many answers to so many questions that I had for so many years about people and institutions.

 

I personally will continue to be as loving as I can but the second I see reg flags of 'not so good' human behavior, I have to leave. People have to learn to protect themselves from getting hurt. One of the biggest lessons I have learned in my life is the old saying that ''actions speak louder than any words''. That's what I watch for today.

 

hugs to all today!

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What still kinda confuses me with this guy I have met is, that he actually looked for a way to get rid of me. So my guess is that he realized I was not that weak as he thought at first and that I was not as stupid as he thought...Don't know because this other girl wrote me how she was obedient to him and now even though this is more than one year ago she still receives texts and nude pictures of him. So why did he let go of me?

 

Also Margee, this guy loved animals. Or at least he said so. He told me this heartwarming story about his ex girlfriend who sold his dog when he was not there and he never saw that dog again...and that he misses that dog. He even has pictures on his facebook profile with that dog and it really looks like he loves that dog. As I asked him why he had no dog he told me that it was too much work since he could not be home all the time because of work...now that work never existed and the dog was not his but his ex-girlfriend and that is why he isn't seeing it anymore. Also he told me he wanted to study veterinary medicine at a specific university and that was what gave him away definitely because even though it is the best university we have...it is a technical university and you cant study anything in medicine there. So either he knew and was trying to make it obvious that he was telling me bs or he is just dumb...or maybe it was a game to see how far he could go, how naive I was. Whatever goes on in such a person's mind. It also makes me wonder if I have some weird aura because lots of people especially at work think I am that wallflower and then they find out what I am doing aside from the job they are more than impressed almost to the point of not believing me and go like: I did not know you are that bright/good/whatever...

 

And you make a great point margee about love not being supposed to hurt. All I can say is YES. So far it is that everytime I fell in love it hurt like hell. And there was no way to talk about it with that person and all that was left was blaming myself for having feelings for someone while I told myself that I was expecting too much while the other person just behaved their normal way. But to go swim with me at the nearby lake, wanting to be at a private place, drinking wine together and making a spontaneous bone fire, waiting for the sun to set...more than once (that was a guy from work), also when telling him about having met someone and he telling me he was envious (that was before the swim in the lake and before I fell in love)...me asking him about him not having a girlfriend and he reacting astonished asking me if he said he had one...when he actually told me he did sometime earlier...telling me they have separated (just to be seen by another friend of mine making out with a girl...)...not so sure how to blame myself for falling in love. Making me feel like I was a really special and interesting person...

 

I guess what it all comes down to is, to be secure in who you are, to care for yourself and try to live your life the way you really want it to. To find out who you are and what you love and what you really want to do in life. Then to not be dependent on anyone's opinion. All that someone like me has never learnt as a child and now have to work hard to get there.

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