Newlife Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I have coffee several times a week with a few guys who happen to be fundamentalists. They know that I'm not a believer but it's become clear to me that they have no desire to challenge me. They talk about their church activities and such and I don't usually confront them about their beliefs but sometimes I feel guilty for not saying more. How much would you say if anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 If you like hanging out with them, it's not really realistic to challenge their religion. Pick your battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newlife Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Mystic, Your point is well taken. Unfortunately, due to current circumstances I have few options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinkleyBoo Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 What is it that makes you feel guilty for not saying more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I would avoid talking about religion or politics. It's not your job to save them from their delusion. If it was me and they brought up religion I would respond with "I don't want to talk about that". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I have coffee several times a week with a few guys who happen to be fundamentalists. They know that I'm not a believer but it's become clear to me that they have no desire to challenge me. They talk about their church activities and such and I don't usually confront them about their beliefs but sometimes I feel guilty for not saying more. How much would you say if anything? If they want to believe in a sky fairy, nothing wrong with that. If they want you to believe in the sky fairy, then it's a problem. Do you enjoy hanging out with them? Is the church talk a major or minor component of the chat? Is your time enjoyable even though they are religious? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted October 1, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted October 1, 2014 In real life, I only engage in active debate when someone else challenges me. It rarely happens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernweh Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 It took years of self study, introspection, slight depression, and conquering fears of death/hell to arrive at my current state. I have no interest in destroying the delusions of others unless they engage me on their own. It's not my place to put the burdens of deconversion onto anyone. This is a conclusion we must arrive at on our own. There's nothing anyone could have ever said to cause me to lose my faith. It had to happen from within. There's no reason to be the kid in 2nd grade who tells everyone Santa isn't real. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted October 1, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted October 1, 2014 It took years of self study, introspection, slight depression, and conquering fears of death/hell to arrive at my current state. I have no interest in destroying the delusions of others unless they engage me on their own. It's not my place to put the burdens of deconversion onto anyone. This is a conclusion we must arrive at on our own. There's nothing anyone could have ever said to cause me to lose my faith. It had to happen from within. There's no reason to be the kid in 2nd grade who tells everyone Santa isn't real. Quoted for truth. My deconversion experience was so brutal I would never wish it on anyone, let alone actively attempt to cause it. Granted I'm a better person for having had the experience; and maybe they would be too. But I also very nearly went insane. It's too much to risk, not knowing the outcome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newlife Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Thanks for the input. It has helped. BinkleyBoo, I guess the reason I sometimes feel guilty is because I think they do respect me despite being 180 degrees apart on theology and I wonder if a few comments from me might get through to them and be of some help in bringing them to reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 It took years of self study, introspection, slight depression, and conquering fears of death/hell to arrive at my current state. I have no interest in destroying the delusions of others unless they engage me on their own. It's not my place to put the burdens of deconversion onto anyone. This is a conclusion we must arrive at on our own. There's nothing anyone could have ever said to cause me to lose my faith. It had to happen from within. There's no reason to be the kid in 2nd grade who tells everyone Santa isn't real. I totally respect your experience and you have described it very well. However, my experience was different to the point where I know if someone had raised questions with me it probably would have led to me deconverting sooner. I think there are different types of believers - those who like you, need years of burdensome processing, and those who need only a gentle push in the direction of doubt to deconvert relatively calmly. I've read the stories of several such people on this site. So I just wanted to put this out there for the benefit of lurkers and new members... sometimes people are best left alone and sometimes asking a few careful questions can ultimately be of benefit to them. The trick is to know which approach to take. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questioneverything Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Newlife - I too have coffee with a few Fundy buddies once or twice a month. They're good friends, and for the most part, we talk about life - wives, kids, jobs, etc. But once in a while, religion comes up. I'm not too good about keeping my mouth shut, which usually results in one or both of them rolling their eyes. But they don't actively argue religion with me, because they just can't make an argument that I can't easily dismantle (not trying to sound arrogant - but when you have the light of reason on your side, it's not a fair fight). These are good buddies all in all, and I like being around them. I'm assuming because you continue to get together with these guys, you enjoy being around your coffee companions as well. Stay the course - who knows, someday, their desire to KNOW just might outweigh their desire to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Thanks for the input. It has helped. BinkleyBoo, I guess the reason I sometimes feel guilty is because I think they do respect me despite being 180 degrees apart on theology and I wonder if a few comments from me might get through to them and be of some help in bringing them to reason." "Bringing them to reason" - the one true correct way to think. :-) Or should someone be allowed to think however they want? Make sure they know you are available for private talk in case they have a crisis in faith, or doubts. Other than that, if it aint broke I wouldn't fix it. No need to feel guilty for not controlling the way your friends think. Guilt is one of the pillars of Christianity, not ex-Christianity. Reject that guilt. Let them be happy in their own way. Hopefully they allow you to be happy in your non-belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newlife Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Midnightrider, Religion is not the majority of what we talk about but they do talk a lot among themselves about their churches and various beliefs which causes me to bite my lip at times. On the few occasions that I've thrown out a challenge I get less than satisfactory answers which leads me to believe that they are piously convicted but marginally informed[borrowed that one from a friend]. questioneverything, I enjoy their company as I'm sure you do also. After all, they are still human beings. I just find it frustrating that I keep getting this subtle message from them that "this mind is closed for business". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 First of all, I really liked your title, "Coffee with Fundies"! Sounds like a fun tv show! If you enjoy coffee with them, and they respect you, and nobody is purposefully offending anybody, then enjoy it. If they know your views, and one of them has serious religious questions, he would probably feel free to contact you privately to further discuss things. I wouldn't push anything otherwise, if you're all friends and it's enjoyable for all. Also, if one of them wants to question religion, it would be pointless for him to bring it up with you while in that group because the others would be pulling him back to the crab pot as he tried to crawl out. If one of them wants to talk personally with you about religion, he will. I'm sure there are times where you say things that causes someone else in the group to bite their lip or tongue. It's part of being human, isn't it? We don't and can't all agree on everything (that would be boring), but we learn social tact so we can still get along. Enjoy your friendship with them. I have nobody that wants to have coffee with me a few times a week (other than my husband, and I'm not taking him for granted!), let alone a group of people, so just enjoy it!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinkleyBoo Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Thanks for the input. It has helped. BinkleyBoo, I guess the reason I sometimes feel guilty is because I think they do respect me despite being 180 degrees apart on theology and I wonder if a few comments from me might get through to them and be of some help in bringing them to reason." "Bringing them to reason" - the one true correct way to think. :-) Or should someone be allowed to think however they want? Make sure they know you are available for private talk in case they have a crisis in faith, or doubts. Other than that, if it aint broke I wouldn't fix it. No need to feel guilty for not controlling the way your friends think. Guilt is one of the pillars of Christianity, not ex-Christianity. Reject that guilt. Let them be happy in their own way. Hopefully they allow you to be happy in your non-belief. yup ^ They know you're not a believer, so if they want to ask you questions, they will. reject the guilt that might be my next tattoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I have coffee several times a week with a few guys who happen to be fundamentalists. They know that I'm not a believer but it's become clear to me that they have no desire to challenge me. They talk about their church activities and such and I don't usually confront them about their beliefs but sometimes I feel guilty for not saying more. How much would you say if anything? if they are not challenging your beliefs then you really have no right to question or challenge theirs. If this is in the US then we all are afforded by constitutional documentation (what we all actually have by birth right as a human being of planet earth in my opinion) to the right to religious freedom. If you like these people and want to see if you can help them break free do it as a friend not as one person challenging another over their belief system. Beliefs are hard things to fight over because they usually require people to commit emotionally to them and if these are fundies you can be assured pushed like that they most likely will fight you. Don't feel guilty, as adults we all have the choice in what to believe and these people are either waiting for you to let your guard down or they actually like you and don't feel the need for force any agenda they may have. I like seeing people of opposite sides get along. It means there is hope left for us as a race. If two of us can do it all of us can given the right motivation. See where it leads is my advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey101 Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Assuming that someone else's beliefs are harmful to them and trying to convert them is the exact same thing fundamentalists did to me. I wouldn't do that because I don't believe I know what another person needs. If they aren't trying to convert you, the least you could do is not try to convert them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newlife Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Thank you again for all the input. It really did help. Seriously. I think the consensus of opinion is that if I enjoy meeting with them I should be content to live and let live. I've decided to go with that philosophy so thanks again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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