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Goodbye Jesus

Some Progress Hopefully.


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I think I made some progress this weekend. In 2009 I went to visit a friend and had a breakdown afterwards. The hallucinations convinced me that God must exist, so I became extremely religious, gave away most of my savings, and generally made a fool of myself.

 

Even though I became skeptical of Christianity and stopped going to church in 2011, it has been really hard for me to satisfy myself that my experiences were all imaginary. I couldn't stop being suspicious of the friend I was visiting before I had the breakdown. I was afraid he was spying on me and watching for an opportunity to finish me off. If I lost something I would suspect my friend teleported it somewhere to tease me. Only a week ago, I saw a cockroach and couldn't help suspecting that my friend was using the cockroach to watch me using magic or ESP or something.

 

So this weekend my friend came for a visit for the first time in five years. I was very nervous and worried, but nothing weird happened and my friend seemed to be the same person I knew for all those years before I had my breakdown.

 

This is such a relief to have those delusional suspicions of my friend gone. I hope those delusions never come back, and maybe I can finally get back to thinking like a normal person again.

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Glad to hear it, D. The thing about that kind of stuff is it is subjectively real at the time because your brain is creating that for you. It helps to understand that yes, you experienced that (real) but it was only real inside your brain.

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I'm glad you're feeling better.  Although I have said this before, I will say it again: I think your delusions and hallucinations do need to be assessed by a doctor.  I'm only saying this out of concern for you.

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Even though I became skeptical of Christianity and stopped going to church in 2011, it has been really hard for me to satisfy myself that my experiences were all imaginary.

 

 

I don't know what is keeping you back or how to overcome it but I have turned that corner and it is such a relief.  All those demons who had me frightened for all those years were only my imagination.  Things are so much better now!  I will never have to suffer that fear again.  I hope you find a way to get here.

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Glad to hear it, D. The thing about that kind of stuff is it is subjectively real at the time because your brain is creating that for you. It helps to understand that yes, you experienced that (real) but it was only real inside your brain.

That is very true. It has been hard for me to fully accept such real seeming experiences were hallucinations. I knew that the best explanation was hallucinations, but it wasn't enough to prevent me from worrying at times.

 

I'm glad you're feeling better.  Although I have said this before, I will say it again: I think your delusions and hallucinations do need to be assessed by a doctor.  I'm only saying this out of concern for you.

I agree that a psychiatrist would be good. The hallucinations and delusions were probably just a symptom of real problems (depression, social isolation, no career, no goals,...)

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Even though I became skeptical of Christianity and stopped going to church in 2011, it has been really hard for me to satisfy myself that my experiences were all imaginary.

 

 

I don't know what is keeping you back or how to overcome it but I have turned that corner and it is such a relief.  All those demons who had me frightened for all those years were only my imagination.  Things are so much better now!  I will never have to suffer that fear again.  I hope you find a way to get here.

 

Thanks. I hope I can build on this little success and make some lasting progress. smile.png

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Glad to hear it, D. The thing about that kind of stuff is it is subjectively real at the time because your brain is creating that for you. It helps to understand that yes, you experienced that (real) but it was only real inside your brain.

That is very true. It has been hard for me to fully accept such real seeming experiences were hallucinations. I knew that the best explanation was hallucinations, but it wasn't enough to prevent me from worrying at times.

 

I'm glad you're feeling better.  Although I have said this before, I will say it again: I think your delusions and hallucinations do need to be assessed by a doctor.  I'm only saying this out of concern for you.

I agree that a psychiatrist would be good. The hallucinations and delusions were probably just a symptom of real problems (depression, social isolation, no career, no goals,...)

 

There is actually a disorder that involves both delusions and depression, schizo-affective disorder.  Also, depression can become psychotic and involve delusions.  Psychiatric disorders such as these involve brain chemistry and are treatable with medication.

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One of the best things I ever did in my life is reach out for help.  I learned there is no progression in trying to 'work it out' myself and being isolated when I obviously have serious issues.  I still have to fight the desire to isolate, but since I made the first step it's not such a massive hurdle anymore.

 

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There is actually a disorder that involves both delusions and depression, schizo-affective disorder.  Also, depression can become psychotic and involve delusions.  Psychiatric disorders such as these involve brain chemistry and are treatable with medication.

I was reading about schizo-affective on wikipedia. I haven't had any significant hallucinations for a couple of years. Mostly it went away after a few weeks in 2009 with a few hallucinations at increasing intervals (weeks, months, many months, ...).

 

My problem has been worrying if there was more to the experiences than psychosis. Having a normal visit with my friend this past weekend when he was central to my delusions should help me to 99% accept the psychological explanation over paranoid and supernatural explanations (hopefully)?

 

One of the best things I ever did in my life is reach out for help.  I learned there is no progression in trying to 'work it out' myself and being isolated when I obviously have serious issues.  I still have to fight the desire to isolate, but since I made the first step it's not such a massive hurdle anymore.

That is good advice. I don't mean to exaggerate my problems. But if I can find the right therapist I'm sure I would benefit.

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What I'm really curious about is: if I can get back to where I was rationally before I experienced psychosis, will I be able to settle my thinking about religion finally? I am tired of thinking about religion. smile.png

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I believe it will help if you get back to where you were before the psychosis experience, and you would be able to get some grip on religion, and you will feel much more settled mentally.  Religion is crazy-inducing as far as cognitive dissonance, and getting that out of your life can only help.

 

Are you looking for a therapist?  It helps to have another person who's not personally involved with you (meaning a therapist as opposed to a friend) to help you sort out your thoughts.  Be good to yourself and do that.

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I believe it will help if you get back to where you were before the psychosis experience, and you would be able to get some grip on religion, and you will feel much more settled mentally.  Religion is crazy-inducing as far as cognitive dissonance, and getting that out of your life can only help.

 

Are you looking for a therapist?  It helps to have another person who's not personally involved with you (meaning a therapist as opposed to a friend) to help you sort out your thoughts.  Be good to yourself and do that.

Thanks, that is what I am hoping also. For several years I've know that probably/scientifically/rationally I hallucinated everything, but I think seeing that my suspicions about my friend were delusions should help me get closer to the point where I don't speculate about the possibility that some of my experiences were caused by supernatural factors.

 

I agree on the therapist. I think having the psychosis closer to resolution should make it easier for me to start therapy, because I didn't want to talk about psychosis and have the therapist overreact. I only really experienced psychosis for a couple of weeks, but it has been hard to get back to where I was before.

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Glad to hear it, D. The thing about that kind of stuff is it is subjectively real at the time because your brain is creating that for you. It helps to understand that yes, you experienced that (real) but it was only real inside your brain.

That is very true. It has been hard for me to fully accept such real seeming experiences were hallucinations. I knew that the best explanation was hallucinations, but it wasn't enough to prevent me from worrying at times.

 

I'm glad you're feeling better.  Although I have said this before, I will say it again: I think your delusions and hallucinations do need to be assessed by a doctor.  I'm only saying this out of concern for you.

I agree that a psychiatrist would be good. The hallucinations and delusions were probably just a symptom of real problems (depression, social isolation, no career, no goals,...)

 

 

 

i think the issues of depression ,no goals, no career can stem from the damage of Christianity too friend.

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Glad to hear it, D. The thing about that kind of stuff is it is subjectively real at the time because your brain is creating that for you. It helps to understand that yes, you experienced that (real) but it was only real inside your brain.

That is very true. It has been hard for me to fully accept such real seeming experiences were hallucinations. I knew that the best explanation was hallucinations, but it wasn't enough to prevent me from worrying at times.

 

I'm glad you're feeling better.  Although I have said this before, I will say it again: I think your delusions and hallucinations do need to be assessed by a doctor.  I'm only saying this out of concern for you.

I agree that a psychiatrist would be good. The hallucinations and delusions were probably just a symptom of real problems (depression, social isolation, no career, no goals,...)

 

 

 

i think the issues of depression ,no goals, no career can stem from the damage of Christianity too friend.

 

Good point. I sometimes wonder how things might have been different if I wasn't raised to be a Christian. Depression has screwed-up almost every phase of my life, and I know Christianity made it worse than it had to be. But it is water under the bridge. smile.png

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Glad to hear it, D. The thing about that kind of stuff is it is subjectively real at the time because your brain is creating that for you. It helps to understand that yes, you experienced that (real) but it was only real inside your brain.

That is very true. It has been hard for me to fully accept such real seeming experiences were hallucinations. I knew that the best explanation was hallucinations, but it wasn't enough to prevent me from worrying at times.

 

I'm glad you're feeling better.  Although I have said this before, I will say it again: I think your delusions and hallucinations do need to be assessed by a doctor.  I'm only saying this out of concern for you.

I agree that a psychiatrist would be good. The hallucinations and delusions were probably just a symptom of real problems (depression, social isolation, no career, no goals,...)

 

 

 

i think the issues of depression ,no goals, no career can stem from the damage of Christianity too friend.

 

Good point. I sometimes wonder how things might have been different if I wasn't raised to be a Christian. Depression has screwed-up almost every phase of my life, and I know Christianity made it worse than it had to be. But it is water under the bridge. smile.png

 

My own experience too Apostate.After deconversion depression is improved and goals and ambition are starting to grow.

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So far so good. I am so relieved to finally have the evidence to satisfy myself that there was nothing spiritual mixed-in with my experience of psychosis.

 

I have almost no interest in spirituality and religion now. I used to be an apathetic atheist or a Christian who had no evidence that God existed. Now I'm back where I started except that I know more about the history of Christianity, the problem of evil, etc.

 

I probably need to keep learning more about the arguments against supernatural forces and Christianity to prevent a repeat?

 

Thanks, everybody. I didn't think I was every going to get past that nonsense. smile.png

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So far so good. I am so relieved to finally have the evidence to satisfy myself that there was nothing spiritual mixed-in with my experience of psychosis.

 

I have almost no interest in spirituality and religion now. I used to be an apathetic atheist or a Christian who had no evidence that God existed. Now I'm back where I started except that I know more about the history of Christianity, the problem of evil, etc.

 

I probably need to keep learning more about the arguments against supernatural forces and Christianity to prevent a repeat?

 

Thanks, everybody. I didn't think I was every going to get past that nonsense. smile.png

Instead of choosing what to study based on how it might strengthen your resistance to supernatural beliefs, which is akin to looking over your shoulder as you walk, consider choosing subjects for study that actually interest you, or of which you have curiosity or which you know very little.  There are numerous secular areas you can explore.  This is akin to looking ahead while you walk.

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YEY, good for you!

 

And yes, there are those events that all of a sudden make our world be so different and it is hard to get back to where we where...and I think you won't anyways because you have an experience that you did not have before. Key is, to see that experience for what it is.

 

What lead you to your breakdown? Did you have stress at work or with someone?

 

I have found that weirdness is going on when in an extended situation where stress is a major component. Like when I prepared for my exams or before I went traveling and worked more than I should have. Just recently someone I met on my travels posted on Facebook about her house being hunted especially her bedroom. I asked her about stress and she admitted to being exhausted and working much.

 

There are things you can do, lifestyle choices that influence your well being. To find out what really interests you and do research about it instead of trying to figure out religion is one of them. For me it is. I love philosophy and language and I love my latin class I am taking, even though I am not sure if I can follow it because they just go too fast for for the moment. But I feel good to visit the university three times a week, it is like an anti depressant. I think those things you can influence by your lifestyle choices are psychological ones. Then there are those you can't influence. Like my scatterbrain. Or like for me that is even though I love my latin classes, I sometimes am there and my mind is wandering around and I am not paying attention...even though I find it interesting. Or sometimes I don't get things done because I have too much on my mind at the same time and the competition of those things block me entirely and I end up doing nothing. Or I forget something at a hotel even though I checked three times if I got everything with me including taking a look under the bed ad all the furnitures...and that are the things influenced by neurology and therefore psychiatric because my brain developed that way. My guess is ADD but to know for sure I need to do the tests and all (what I plan to in the new year). So I think it is good to get more of an understanding about yourself to know the difference. Because approaching psychiatric issues with psychology can be frustrating and the other way round can be a waste of time and money as well. I guess the work of a psychiatrist/psychologist would be to help you see the difference and to take the steps necessary to improve your situation.

 

Find something that interests you and stop pondering religion. Unless you can take a step back and look at it from a certain distance. But as long as you are emotionally involved it is not really helpful.

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Instead of choosing what to study based on how it might strengthen your resistance to supernatural beliefs, which is akin to looking over your shoulder as you walk, consider choosing subjects for study that actually interest you, or of which you have curiosity or which you know very little.  There are numerous secular areas you can explore.  This is akin to looking ahead while you walk.

That advice is more appealing, because I'm not very interested in religious history or philosophy of religion. Mostly I like history.

 

The problem is that I was basically an apathetic atheist for 25 years. Then I had psychosis and it seized on those dormant Christian beliefs. If I had been a hard atheist instead of a soft atheist, then maybe I would have been able to resist psychosis or recover more quickly.

 

The delusional tendencies seems to be part of my brain. Yesterday I noticed a mattress cover that somebody had laundered. I almost never wash sheets or mattress covers, because I usually sleep on the floor. So my delusional tendencies transformed the mattress cover into a mystery. It's a small mystery that I will probably forget about in a few days, but this is a weakness in my psychology that makes me vulnerable to superstitions. (I don't mean to exaggerate my concerns about the mattress cover, but I think a normal person wouldn't have any concerns at all.)

 

That is why I wonder if I need to keep learning about why supernatural belief contradicts science, why Christian theology contradicts Christian history, etc. I prefer to read lighter material though. smile.png

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YEY, good for you!

 

And yes, there are those events that all of a sudden make our world be so different and it is hard to get back to where we where...and I think you won't anyways because you have an experience that you did not have before. Key is, to see that experience for what it is.

thanks, that is exactly how I see it. Seeing my friend in person helped me finally realize that my memories of him were hallucinations and delusions. The new experience of seeing my friend last weekend tipped the balance, so that all the other weird memories seem now to also be hallucinations and delusions. Before this week I had a nagging concern that something supernatural had triggered the psychosis. Now that concern is mostly gone.

 

What lead you to your breakdown? Did you have stress at work or with someone?

 

I have found that weirdness is going on when in an extended situation where stress is a major component. Like when I prepared for my exams or before I went traveling and worked more than I should have. Just recently someone I met on my travels posted on Facebook about her house being hunted especially her bedroom. I asked her about stress and she admitted to being exhausted and working much.

I think you are right that stress was a factor. It's a long story, but there was definitely a lot of stress in my life at that time. I actually heard a voice and a few similar things several months before I had the breakdown. Even though I was an atheist I started worrying that I was possessed by a demon. I was trying to stay constantly inebriated the previous year, because I was so depressed and stressed. A couple of weeks before the breakdown I decided to stop drinking and start going to church - even though I was still an atheist intellectually. I went to see my friend for a weekend and had the breakdown as I got home.

 

There are things you can do, lifestyle choices that influence your well being. To find out what really interests you and do research about it instead of trying to figure out religion is one of them. For me it is. I love philosophy and language and I love my latin class I am taking, even though I am not sure if I can follow it because they just go too fast for for the moment. But I feel good to visit the university three times a week, it is like an anti depressant. I think those things you can influence by your lifestyle choices are psychological ones. Then there are those you can't influence. Like my scatterbrain. Or like for me that is even though I love my latin classes, I sometimes am there and my mind is wandering around and I am not paying attention...even though I find it interesting. Or sometimes I don't get things done because I have too much on my mind at the same time and the competition of those things block me entirely and I end up doing nothing. Or I forget something at a hotel even though I checked three times if I got everything with me including taking a look under the bed ad all the furnitures...and that are the things influenced by neurology and therefore psychiatric because my brain developed that way. My guess is ADD but to know for sure I need to do the tests and all (what I plan to in the new year). So I think it is good to get more of an understanding about yourself to know the difference. Because approaching psychiatric issues with psychology can be frustrating and the other way round can be a waste of time and money as well. I guess the work of a psychiatrist/psychologist would be to help you see the difference and to take the steps necessary to improve your situation.

 

Find something that interests you and stop pondering religion. Unless you can take a step back and look at it from a certain distance. But as long as you are emotionally involved it is not really helpful.

Thanks, that is good advice. On the concentration issue, if you can find video lectures then you can rewind and replay if your mind wanders? My problem is that I read very slow. It takes me forever to read a book, so that limits me.

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Hey man, I am a slow reader too. But you know what? Constantly reading helps improving reading skills...and reading slow can be an advantage too because if you read slow you might read with more attention, means you don't need to read stuff twice. And reading a book is no contest. Books have all the time in the world.

 

From what I read in your post I think your breakdown had very much to do with stress. And your depression as well. When I prepared for my exams I more than once came to the point of wanting to just throw everything away. With that I had those weird moments while sleeping in that I can not really explain. It could have been voices, but it was more like a very strong thought that somehow was very emotional too. I took it as a warning sign because I was scared to go mental. I guess you ignored those warnings and at one point your nervous system just could not cope anymore. Lot of people have nervous breakdowns. Maybe if you seek a therapist you can name it that instead of psychosis. With the pre story it makes it plausible and it sounds less crazy then psychosis. I guess a good therapist will know if it was a psychosis and also that it had to do with your situation back then and you have been fine since but had some confusion because this experience made you go religious. If you have stress in your life right now it would be good if you think about how to change your situation so you will have enough you time. Maybe take a trip somewhere for a few days or if you can two weeks or more. Sometimes it is also just a matter of how you think about your life and all. What got me into stress was not even the amount of time I was studying. It was more the feeling of never getting to an end. All those books...and every week new ones adding...and then those subjects where you can read and memorize all the books and at the end still not have done enough to prepare. When I abandoned the idea of going to the exams I calmed down again and found new strength and also interest in studying. So I told myself I would do what I could...though at the end I ended up in a panic nonstop last minute learning rush...however, letting go helped me to keep on track :).

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Hey man, I am a slow reader too. But you know what? Constantly reading helps improving reading skills...and reading slow can be an advantage too because if you read slow you might read with more attention, means you don't need to read stuff twice. And reading a book is no contest. Books have all the time in the world.

 

From what I read in your post I think your breakdown had very much to do with stress. And your depression as well. When I prepared for my exams I more than once came to the point of wanting to just throw everything away. With that I had those weird moments while sleeping in that I can not really explain. It could have been voices, but it was more like a very strong thought that somehow was very emotional too. I took it as a warning sign because I was scared to go mental. I guess you ignored those warnings and at one point your nervous system just could not cope anymore. Lot of people have nervous breakdowns. Maybe if you seek a therapist you can name it that instead of psychosis. With the pre story it makes it plausible and it sounds less crazy then psychosis. I guess a good therapist will know if it was a psychosis and also that it had to do with your situation back then and you have been fine since but had some confusion because this experience made you go religious. If you have stress in your life right now it would be good if you think about how to change your situation so you will have enough you time. Maybe take a trip somewhere for a few days or if you can two weeks or more. Sometimes it is also just a matter of how you think about your life and all. What got me into stress was not even the amount of time I was studying. It was more the feeling of never getting to an end. All those books...and every week new ones adding...and then those subjects where you can read and memorize all the books and at the end still not have done enough to prepare. When I abandoned the idea of going to the exams I calmed down again and found new strength and also interest in studying. So I told myself I would do what I could...though at the end I ended up in a panic nonstop last minute learning rush...however, letting go helped me to keep on track smile.png.

Thanks, Moanareina, that is exactly how I see it too. Psychosis is associated with schizophrenia which is much more serious than what I experienced. My problem seemed to be too brief and it went away without any treatment. Your description of a nervous breakdown followed by a period of confusion caused by religion is very accurate IMO. smile.png

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm feeling happy, because it's been a month since my friend visited and helped me get past the confusion caused by the breakdown I had five years ago.

 

I'm not 100% well, but it is much better. smile.png

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Hopefully this will be my last post for a while (if I can break the habit smile.png ).

 

Seeing my friend a month ago has helped me to almost completely accept that my memories of supernatural events were imagined. Those imagined memories were my evidence for believing Christianity, so I would say my deconversion is as complete as it will ever be. I'll probably continue to read books to prevent a relapse.

 

Anyway, I don't think there is any purpose for me continuing to post. I don't think I can give helpful advice to other people who are trying to deconvert.

 

So that is why I'm going to try to quit posting. I've enjoyed interacting with everybody here. smile.png

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