passerina Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Things are getting more difficult with my family and it's taking so much mental energy for me to figure out how to navigate through conversations and situations with them. My parents and siblings and their spouses know to varying degrees that I no longer believe in Ellen White (the prophet of the seventh day Adventist church). They have no idea that I don't believe in an inspired literal bible and don't believe in Christianity anymore. I haven't decided how much I want them to know. Some of my family have basically decided to not bring up my beliefs at all. That's perfect for me! But they are obviously talking about it together when I'm not there and there are several people who are like the designated spokespeople to ask me questions while the other people listen or wait for updates Last night I got a long email from someone with a link to a sermon about a controversial topic and they want to know my opinion about it. They won't like my opinion! Last week someone else was fishing for my opinion on the Sabbath and talking about how members of other Christian denominations are so confused about all these doctrines and isn't it great how we in our family really understand things, lots of comments designed to prod me into agreeing with Adventist doctrines. I just kept changing the subject and wandering away to attend to some imaginary issue with one of my kids. There were other people there to chat about it, but it was pretty obvious that this person really wanted me to weigh in. We are talking about going on a vacation with my parents and siblings and their kids and one of them really wants to go to the creation museum in Kentucky and wouldn't that be wonderful for all the kids to visit together?? Adventists are young earth creationists and I can just imagine the horrified comments when my kids blurt out that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. We have cut down our church attendance to less than once a month from probably 8+ and my husband and I plan to stop attending completely except for if we are invited to see one of the cousins sing or play an instrument or something. One family member in particular keeps asking my kids don't they miss church? (they don't) Don't they miss this activity? Do they know the children from the nice nice new members and wouldn't it be great if they could get to know those kids and won't it be great when they can attend the church school with their cousins? I am going to talk to your mommy and invite you over at the same time as these nice nice kids so you can be friends! They are a super conservative family and my kids aren't even the same age as theirs... I think my family member is hoping that they will be a good influence on me since I'm such a heretic! My family loves me and my husband and kids. They are confused and curious and concerned about where we are headed with our religious beliefs. I get that! It's natural for them to confer about it and try to figure out what we are thinking. We are upsetting the status quo of how things have always been in our family. Things are awkward. I need to have some sort of better strategy of which questions to avoid and which questions to answer. I had kind of decided that I would let them know that I don't believe in certain parts of Adventism, cut down our church attendance a lot and let them get used to that. Hopefully they would get used to that in time and we could just not talk about it... But Adventism is such a big part of their lives that several of them are completely unable to have any conversation without bringing Adventism into it. The ideal situation for me would be that they just consider us to be kind of backsliding liberal nondenominational cultural Christians. That is really really bad to them, but at least something they can understand? With where we live my husband and I agree that it would be pretty unwise for us to admit to being non believers. We are in a very bible belt area and we think there would be a lot of problems for our children and very likely career problems for my husband. Any advice for me? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted October 17, 2014 Moderator Share Posted October 17, 2014 You might just tell them that you prefer to keep your spiritual beliefs private and would rather not discuss those topics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mando rando Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Hi Passerina, Wow, it sounds line a minefield is a good descripter of what you're dealing with. I don't have direct experience with the Adventists, but certainly with family members asking questions they don't really want answered! I know there's no hell to worry about, and no god to be angry/hurt with me, but that's not the way they see it. The last thing I want to do is cause them pain and fear over me, my wife and my daughter, but I don't want to lie and deceice them either. I will say that once the truth (or at least some of it) came out, things ended up better. I was "outed" by a cousin on Facebook who saw my agnostic religous status. My Mom was really upset, called me at work, angry, hurt, etc, upset that I hadn't told her, that she found out through a concerend relative, etc. I told her I would talk about it later, but she kept talking..... Anyway, she called and apologized later, we're still close, and we just don't talk much about religion now. I would probably do it differently if I had the chance, not post on it FB, even though my parents never see it, maybe actually tell my parents and sister. But I'm glad things are more open. I wish I had more direct advice for you,Things turned out OK for me, but there are ex-c members who have much harder experiences with their families. Maybe some of the truth will slow down or stop the questions, but maybe not, and the interference will get worse. I hope for the best for you and your family. B y the way, I live about 30 minutes from the Creation Museum, and went there with a diversity team from my place of employment. I didn't know who in our group were christians, and who were not, so I couldn't even talk to anyone about how crazy it was! It was torture not to be able to laugh (or cry) at some of the displays. I mostly felt kinda sick that I once believed in "the science" and the religion ideas esposed there, but it least I felt thankful to be away from that now! Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 You might just tell them that you prefer to keep your spiritual beliefs private and would rather not discuss those topics. "Our family has had a special vision from Ellen White (God, Jesus, whatever authority is appropriate) who has a special plan for our lives he is revealing to us. For the time being we have been told to direct our hearts to the inner yadda yadda of Adventism because it is more important than outer fellowship. This may cause concern for our family, friends and church family but it has been revealed to us via the deepest of prayer that Ellen (or Jesus or whoever) is purifying us spiritually for a great leadership role... we are but the caterpillars in our spiritual cocoons who will eventually become spiritual butterflies... while we are in our cocoons (of church avoidance) our church can continue to pray for us (or whatever they want to do) but it is essential that our motives, our actions (and our lack of outward belief behavior) not be questioned. We are with God/Jesus/Ellen White....Be with us in this wonderful spiritual transformation ... If you are not with Jesus, you are against him... " Or yes, just refuse to talk religion (probably the best option). One dysfunction of religious people and religious culture is the concept that a person's beliefs are public information. It isn't their business. Keep telling them you dont want to talk about it..make it your mantra. It is great that your immediate family (spouse and kids) are all on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 It can certainly be difficult dealing with family members in situations like this. If they do really press you on the Sabbath and you reach a point where you feel you need to respond, then I would suggest pointing out this verse: Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Anyway, good luck as you deal with the minefield! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moanareina Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Not living in such an insane environment I don't know if I am of any help. But when I left Church I did not tell anyone but those who obviously needed to know (small group, prayer ministry I was involved in...) and to this day I still get birthday cards from that Church (which is so ridiculous because it is so impersonal anyways...). When someone asked I told them that I was taking a time out to find out where I truly stand with God. Which was the truth only that I already knew that I would not go back to church ever. When someone asks you for your opinion by sending you a link to an article if it was me I would just tell them I had not the time to read all the articles people would be sending me so they had to build their own opinion on it. But that is me. Maybe if someone insists in getting your opinion, you can ask them: Is this important to our friendship? But I guess maybe it might be better to just avoid that talk unless you are ready for some crazy arguing. Anyways, I wish you lots of strength especially for the coming time which might be quite a hassle with christmas coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 ... With where we live my husband and I agree that it would be pretty unwise for us to admit to being non believers. We are in a very bible belt area and we think there would be a lot of problems for our children and very likely career problems for my husband. Any advice for me? Although it would take significant planning, money and time, and involve some risk, perhaps you could simply move to a different location and enjoy a more secular, healthy and enlightened environment and lifestyle. In short, leave the baggage behind and move on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Read up on Assertiveness Training and setting boundaries. Being assertive is not being passive (going along with family with no argument or leaving the room to avoid discussion) or aggressive ("I AM AN ATHEIST! YOU SHOULD BE TOO!"). Assertiveness is being able to firmly yet gently state your opinions. There are tons of great things to read on the internet about Assertiveness Training, Assertiveness Skills, and Setting Boundaries. Just search those. There are great books on being assertive, and on boundaries. Consider therapy to help you also. It would be good to be able to do some role-playing with setting boundaries and being assertive with a therapist before dealing with actual relatives. Just for your own sanity, and to raise your kids in a consistent manner around consistent people, is it possible for you to move to another part of the country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 The issue that makes me hesitate to say that you should push the nuclear button, tell them straight and walk away is the comment that the environment in which you live is such that it might impinge even on the family income. I've no wish to counsel you into unemployment. Seems to me however that this is a pretty straight forward, two option issue. You either tell your family that your beliefs - and those of your household - are things that you need to work out for yourself and you then refuse to discuss any of it, or you tell them that you do not believe a word of what they say in religious matters and have no intention of being evangelized. Were I in a situation where there was no issue for my immediate household, I'd simply walk away from the believers, regardless of whether I was related to them. However, only you can judge your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 I cannot recommend enough the idea of moving far away - and make it at least a two day drive. I understand the importance of finding work - but seriously try to work out something like this. It is probably the only thing that saved me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passerina Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 I appreciate every reply on this thread, but midniterider you are a special person, lol. Your response led to me laughing so hard I cried and then laughing again when I realized it would probably actually work on certain people. Moving away is something that I started fantasizing about a year ago when my beliefs started to really fall apart and I didn't want to deal with it. I have a city picked out and it is about a two day drive as you recommended, Deva. We have only really discussed it as a joke, but moving is something I will seriously consider if I feel like our social life is completely screwed. My kids are young enough that if we move in the next few years they will be able to adjust pretty easily and it could be a huge positive for them down the road. In the next few months all the important people will realize that there's been a dramatic drop in our church attendance, we've resigned from all our church positions, stopped tithing, etc. I expect that sometime next spring we will be approached by a pastor/elders. If we are honest about our beliefs we will then be disfellowshipped. Our other options are to ignore invitations to talk while the gossip increases, or to address the situation proactively and ask to have our membership dropped. We are considering having one of the grownups attend a random other church once or twice so we have some kind of bone to throw to people. Tell the crucial people "we are re-evaluating our beliefs, trying to decide the right path for our family, blah blah blah... " And then we can go about our lives with our new found free time and carefully established boundaries. We'll see how it all pans out I guess... I don't post very much but I have learned so much and gotten so many helpful ideas from reading here. Thank you everyone! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Discern Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: I dunno...these cults tend to have apologetics up the yin-yang for why verses like this don't really mean what they appear to say. I don't know why Passerina should run away to another town. I'm happy to discuss with people my reasons for rejecting christianity if they ask. I never initiate though. And 90% of the time, they don't either. I told them once that I'm no longer a believer, and after a couple months they just avoid the topic. If you're able to give some thoughtful rebuttals, then their questions won't last long unless they're on the fence themselves. Coming out of a cult is intense though, because a lot of your friends cut you off after leaving, and they're overly judgmental about minor issues which makes it hard for them to see the forest from the trees. My deconversion was a two-step process: one to get out of extreme fundamentalism, and the next step to leave christianity altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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