Ravenstar Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Oh geez… sorry did not read every post. The original 'god' was El Elyon…(God Most High) also called El Shaddai (God the Strong, or God the Destroyer) a Canaanite father god.. who had 70 sons. This also correlates with Anu (Sumerian) who had at least 2, if not more sons. When adopted/translated to the Hebrew culture.. El became Yahweh (a mountain/war god and patron god of a certain portion of the Hebrews/Israelites), and the sons became 'angels' (Except for Ba'al.. who seems to have been particularly hated by the Hebrews, probably because his cult was very popular in Canaan, i.e.: he was represented by a bull or calf - a fertility god in essence). It's an obvious pointer to the Hebrew religions' pantheistic roots in Canaan. We see a continuance of this thinking and mythology in classic Greek religion… the gods having relations with mortal women and spawning demigods. Carry on… 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 So when christians sing that El Shaddai song... they're singing about 'god the destroyer' Hahahahahahahahahahaha when you think about the lyrics of the song... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Since I can appreciate what I hear expressed from some of the post expressing their experiences that most have had with 'organized' religion, my heart goes out to them. I guess I was blessed my parents never forced any religious doctrines down my throat, but I have had a number of incidents 'where' Christians feel that since I won't acknowledge their godman as my Creator or other things which I personally don't subscribe to, not by belief but principle. Just last year they stripped the good title to my home, ever heard of a property in a 100 year old sub-division simply dissappearing? While the title company finally paid off the policy amount , that doesn't compensate the monies or time spent these last seven years fixing it up. A part-time preacher who works for the City who considers me a dog because I don't value the Bible more than the Constitution. So I too am aware of those Son of man throwing you in the fire threats. But the sons of God, they are what you make them, but if Adam was the son of God, then if he made more than one, would they have not been the sons of God. Yet they took all the women for themselves and left their most men mateless and refused to hear the Spirit in their hypocrisy. So as a result, the days of man in flesh was set at a 120 years. If the true Word then it would be true in perpetually true, being what constitute a principle that is fixed and alterable as those that govern the universe itself. So 500,000,000+ documented cases and 1 report by France of a person living over 120, I am surprised that after the abuse they took from the Church that it wasn't 1 person didn't live over 120. Yet that doesn't qualify an observable truth to science? Then they are pretty much a unprincipled as those that think that just because it written in the Bible that Noah live 950 years that it's true, but like much of the Scripture, if you don't learn principles you'll believe anything. It is only a coincidence that we are living in the generation where medical science made it possible to live to be 120. For most of our ancestors you would get sick and die long before that time so the "prophesy" was clearly false. In our great grand children's time perhaps medical technology will have pushed that number to 140 or 150. The words of the Bible are going to become more and more meaningless as time goes on. Only coincidence? possibly yet how many "verified' records in 500,000,000+ testable passings, "1" and to be honest, even with the recorded cases in which has held true, as the scientific method and the falsfiability then "1" case, yet that "1" case being verified accurate and satisfying the obvious falsifiable that if a person living over 120 years then it would false, then the scientific method must hold that it is false, period right? Heck no, what it shows is the data was corrupted and the results rigged I tell you, it was rigged, LOL. Likewise it can't be said that any valid scientific principle disproves the Torah's writings that the scriptures are true, at least to length of days which exceeded the 120 years. Not that anyone has to believe it that they did live 900 or so years, but those who do get to hold onto their faith that the days of their life are without number since there is no validated scientific evidence to contradict it. right? Well, what can I say, you definitely got the win for science on that one. Good job. The words of the Bible are going to become more and more meaningless as time goes on. It seems such is already evolving https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJUIHXGqvtM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Since I can appreciate what I hear expressed from some of the post expressing their experiences that most have had with 'organized' religion, my heart goes out to them. I guess I was blessed my parents never forced any religious doctrines down my throat, but I have had a number of incidents 'where' Christians feel that since I won't acknowledge their godman as my Creator or other things which I personally don't subscribe to, not by belief but principle. Just last year they stripped the good title to my home, ever heard of a property in a 100 year old sub-division simply dissappearing? While the title company finally paid off the policy amount , that doesn't compensate the monies or time spent these last seven years fixing it up. A part-time preacher who works for the City who considers me a dog because I don't value the Bible more than the Constitution. So I too am aware of those Son of man throwing you in the fire threats. But the sons of God, they are what you make them, but if Adam was the son of God, then if he made more than one, would they have not been the sons of God. Yet they took all the women for themselves and left their most men mateless and refused to hear the Spirit in their hypocrisy. So as a result, the days of man in flesh was set at a 120 years. If the true Word then it would be true in perpetually true, being what constitute a principle that is fixed and alterable as those that govern the universe itself. So 500,000,000+ documented cases and 1 report by France of a person living over 120, I am surprised that after the abuse they took from the Church that it wasn't 1 person didn't live over 120. Yet that doesn't qualify an observable truth to science? Then they are pretty much a unprincipled as those that think that just because it written in the Bible that Noah live 950 years that it's true, but like much of the Scripture, if you don't learn principles you'll believe anything. It is only a coincidence that we are living in the generation where medical science made it possible to live to be 120. For most of our ancestors you would get sick and die long before that time so the "prophesy" was clearly false. In our great grand children's time perhaps medical technology will have pushed that number to 140 or 150. The words of the Bible are going to become more and more meaningless as time goes on. Only coincidence? possibly yet how many "verified' records in 500,000,000+ testable passings, "1" and to be honest, even with the recorded cases in which has held true, as the scientific method and the falsfiability then "1" case, yet that "1" case being verified accurate and satisfying the obvious falsifiable that if a person living over 120 years then it would false, then the scientific method must hold that it is false, period right? Heck no, what it shows is the data was corrupted and the results rigged I tell you, it was rigged, LOL. Likewise it can't be said that any valid scientific principle disproves the Torah's writings that the scriptures are true, at least to length of days which exceeded the 120 years. Not that anyone has to believe it that they did live 900 or so years, but those who do get to hold onto their faith that the days of their life are without number since there is no validated scientific evidence to contradict it. right? Well, what can I say, you definitely got the win for science on that one. Good job. The words of the Bible are going to become more and more meaningless as time goes on. It seems such is already evolving https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJUIHXGqvtM This is pure bullshit. The human lifespan is due to environmental and genetic factors, not the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted October 22, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted October 22, 2014 Likewise it can't be said that any valid scientific principle disproves the Torah's writings that the scriptures are true The same book that claimed the earth was flat and that there was a dome above the sky, both of which science proved to be untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Only coincidence? Yes, only a coincidence. All your ancestors lived in a time when people died sooner then 120. For most of them it was much sooner. Medical tech has only been pushing back the human life span recently. So it is a coincidence that you are alive in this generation. You were born too late to explore the Western Hemisphere. You were born too early to explore other star systems. But you were born at exactly the right time to live to your hundred and twenties. possibly yet how many "verified' records in 500,000,000+ testable passings, "1" and to be honest, even with the recorded cases in which has held true, as the scientific method and the falsfiability then "1" case, yet that "1" case being verified accurate and satisfying the obvious falsifiable that if a person living over 120 years then it would false, then the scientific method must hold that it is false, period right? Heck no, what it shows is the data was corrupted and the results rigged I tell you, it was rigged, LOL. What in the world are you talking about? Context is important. Without it your words have no meaning. What is five hundred million? Verified records of what? What 1 case are you talking about? Likewise it can't be said that any valid scientific principle disproves the Torah's writings that the scriptures are true, at least to length of days which exceeded the 120 years. Not that anyone has to believe it that they did live 900 or so years, but those who do get to hold onto their faith that the days of their life are without number since there is no validated scientific evidence to contradict it. right? Well, what can I say, you definitely got the win for science on that one. Good job. The Torah is nonsense. Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Judges and Joshua are pure fantasy. The only facts found in the Torah relate to geography, either physical geography or political geography for the time it was written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Tell me one thing Justus. Do you believe that your jesus was born as Luke told the events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Likewise it can't be said that any valid scientific principle disproves the Torah's writings that the scriptures are true The same book that claimed the earth was flat and that there was a dome above the sky, both of which science proved to be untrue. Since I am not sure what Christian doctrine you blindly followed that claimed the Bible represented that earth was flat, but maybe you just mistakenly confused the flat universe of the big bang theory with the flat earth of the Church. After all the big bang was theorized and published in scientific form by the Catholic priest in the 1930’s and declared acceptable Catholic doctrine by Papal decree in the 1950’s? However, rather as one that pursues the principles of honest things, unless you can substantiate your unsupported allegation with some actual reference in scripture that would even remotely support your prophesy of scripture, then I will believe I will excuse myself from any further discussions on this topic that we have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gObUFdb9SFw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydisplayname Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Likewise it can't be said that any valid scientific principle disproves the Torah's writings that the scriptures are true The same book that claimed the earth was flat and that there was a dome above the sky, both of which science proved to be untrue. Since I am not sure what Christian doctrine you blindly followed that claimed the Bible represented that earth was flat, but maybe you just mistakenly confused the flat universe of the big bang theory with the flat earth of the Church. Dammit Prof. We went and picked the wrong doctrine... Thanks for clearing that up Justus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted October 23, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted October 23, 2014 Likewise it can't be said that any valid scientific principle disproves the Torah's writings that the scriptures are true The same book that claimed the earth was flat and that there was a dome above the sky, both of which science proved to be untrue. Since I am not sure what Christian doctrine you blindly followed that claimed the Bible represented that earth was flat, but maybe you just mistakenly confused the flat universe of the big bang theory with the flat earth of the Church. After all the big bang was theorized and published in scientific form by the Catholic priest in the 1930’s and declared acceptable Catholic doctrine by Papal decree in the 1950’s? However, rather as one that pursues the principles of honest things, unless you can substantiate your unsupported allegation with some actual reference in scripture that would even remotely support your prophesy of scripture, then I will believe I will excuse myself from any further discussions on this topic that we have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men. Daniel 4:10-11, Isaiah 11:12, Revelations 7:1 You might want to start reading scripture for yourself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Point of order! A Big Bang doesn't necessarily produce a flat universe with zero spatial curvature. It can also produce open universe, with negative spatial curvature or a closed universe, with positive spatial curvature. As Alexander Friedmann showed in 1924. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Friedmann It would help if Justus were specific about which model of Big Bang he's talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Likewise it can't be said that any valid scientific principle disproves the Torah's writings that the scriptures are true The same book that claimed the earth was flat and that there was a dome above the sky, both of which science proved to be untrue. Since I am not sure what Christian doctrine you blindly followed that claimed the Bible represented that earth was flat, but maybe you just mistakenly confused the flat universe of the big bang theory with the flat earth of the Church. After all the big bang was theorized and published in scientific form by the Catholic priest in the 1930’s and declared acceptable Catholic doctrine by Papal decree in the 1950’s? However, rather as one that pursues the principles of honest things, unless you can substantiate your unsupported allegation with some actual reference in scripture that would even remotely support your prophesy of scripture, then I will believe I will excuse myself from any further discussions on this topic that we have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men. Daniel 4:10-11, Isaiah 11:12, Revelations 7:1 You might want to start reading scripture for yourself. Don't forget Satan tempting Jesus on the mountain where you can see all the kingdoms of Earth at the same time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Likewise it can't be said that any valid scientific principle disproves the Torah's writings that the scriptures are true The same book that claimed the earth was flat and that there was a dome above the sky, both of which science proved to be untrue. Since I am not sure what Christian doctrine you blindly followed that claimed the Bible represented that earth was flat, but maybe you just mistakenly confused the flat universe of the big bang theory with the flat earth of the Church. After all the big bang was theorized and published in scientific form by the Catholic priest in the 1930’s and declared acceptable Catholic doctrine by Papal decree in the 1950’s? However, rather as one that pursues the principles of honest things, unless you can substantiate your unsupported allegation with some actual reference in scripture that would even remotely support your prophesy of scripture, then I will believe I will excuse myself from any further discussions on this topic that we have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men. Daniel 4:10-11, Isaiah 11:12, Revelations 7:1 You might want to start reading scripture for yourself. Don't forget Satan tempting Jesus on the mountain where you can see all the kingdoms of Earth at the same time. No! No! No! That's just a metaphor or some figure of speech that's meant to be taken symbolically, MyMistake. Don't confuse the metaphorical/symbolic passages of the Gospels with the historically accurate ones, ok? . . . Like the star of Bethlehem that went ahead of the three Magi and stopped over the place where the baby Jesus was. . . . That's clearly NOT written by a person who actually believed the world was flat. It's not meant to be taken literally. No, Matthew 2 : 9 is clearly some subtle and convoluted form of ultra-obscure ancient Judaic literary device, used in the Gospels for conveying higher levels of spiritual meaning in what at first glance appears to be a Flat-Earther's description of a star moving thru the heavens at the pace of men on camels, as they traveled from Jerusalem to Bethlehem. Are we clear on that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Likewise it can't be said that any valid scientific principle disproves the Torah's writings that the scriptures are true The same book that claimed the earth was flat and that there was a dome above the sky, both of which science proved to be untrue. Since I am not sure what Christian doctrine you blindly followed that claimed the Bible represented that earth was flat, but maybe you just mistakenly confused the flat universe of the big bang theory with the flat earth of the Church. After all the big bang was theorized and published in scientific form by the Catholic priest in the 1930’s and declared acceptable Catholic doctrine by Papal decree in the 1950’s? However, rather as one that pursues the principles of honest things, unless you can substantiate your unsupported allegation with some actual reference in scripture that would even remotely support your prophesy of scripture, then I will believe I will excuse myself from any further discussions on this topic that we have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men. Daniel 4:10-11, Isaiah 11:12, Revelations 7:1 You might want to start reading scripture for yourself. snatch the peeble from my hand grasshopper. LOL So the earth has no corners is what you believe? And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: Revelations 7:2 There is none as blind as him who can't see the four :LINK So the earth is infinite and has no end which you claim by stating what was written was in Daniel 4:11 was untrue "The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:" The truth is self evident, science didn't know the earth was round they just thought it didn't end. Or what, you saying they used the stars in the sky to show them it was a sphere,yet is that exactly what is written in this scripture here: And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: Isaiah 40:22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Scientists in the ancient Middle East DID know the Earth was spherical, Justus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erastothenes All the Israelites had to do to discover that fact was to open their eyes and their minds to the world aROUND them, JUSTUS Erastothenes did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Pathetic apologist is pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted October 24, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2014 So the earth is infinite and has no end which you claim by stating what was written was in Daniel 4:11 was untrue I made no such claim. It is the tactic of a weak mind to argue against words he placed into the mouth of another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 So the earth is infinite and has no end which you claim by stating what was written was in Daniel 4:11 was untrue I made no such claim. It is the tactic of a weak mind to argue against words he placed into the mouth of another. He's just doing his homework for the "How to Create Strawman Fallacies 101" class he is taking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Here you go, Justus! Proof poz that the ancient Israelites thought the world was flat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_cosmology "The universe of the ancient Israelites was made up of a flat disc-shaped earth floating on water, heaven above,underworld below." "In the Old Testament period the earth was most commonly thought of [by the Israelites] as a flat disc floating on water." . . . http://www.yuriyandinna.com/bible-science-ancient-hebrew-cosmology/ . . . And some nice images for ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Thanks, but I have few that came to me too. Is it not written, no prophesy of scripture is of any private interpretation? Well, scientist today are claiming the universe is flat. Seems more things change the more the stay the same. heaven (matter without mass) and earth (matter having mass) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Flat space-time is not the same as a flat earth… oh, goodness. Just trying to comprehend the 'shape' of space is mind-boggling. Please read the link from post #61. I do not think it says what you think it does. BAA? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 maybe justus universe = earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Thanks, but I have few that came to me too. Is it not written, no prophesy of scripture is of any private interpretation? So was God speaking thru his prophets (who hadn't been created at this time) or speaking directly, when he said this? 6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” That vault is the firmament, which is a dome above the FLAT Earth the ancient Hebrews believed in. No private interpretation needed Justus. God was telling it like it wasn't and isn't. Well, scientist today are claiming the universe is flat. Seems more things change the more the stay the same. Please explain (in your own words) what you think a flat universe is. Thanks. heaven (matter without mass) and earth (matter having mass) Since the mass of earthly things can be detected by us, would you mind explaining how we can detect the absence of mass in heaven? Or is this a 'fact' you accept by faith, not evidence? Thanks, BAA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Thanks, but I have few that came to me too. Is it not written, no prophesy of scripture is of any private interpretation? So was God speaking thru his prophets (who hadn't been created at this time) or speaking directly, when he said this? 6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” That vault is the firmament, which is a dome above the FLAT Earth the ancient Hebrews believed in. No private interpretation needed Justus. God was telling it like it wasn't and isn't. Well, scientist today are claiming the universe is flat. Seems more things change the more the stay the same. Please explain (in your own words) what you think a flat universe is. Thanks. heaven (matter without mass) and earth (matter having mass) Since the mass of earthly things can be detected by us, would you mind explaining how we can detect the absence of mass in heaven? Or is this a 'fact' you accept by faith, not evidence? Thanks, BAA No private interpretation needed Justus- Unforunately, you know very little about handling the holies, but yes there is a private interpretation. So in light of the your 'absence of mass' in heaven then there is obviously no reason to talk about the evidence of massless particles since your about to infringe upon one and I would rather not to have that on my conscience. Especially since it was the massless 's' particles that eventually became the mass that expanded into the planets upon which the bow is found upon the vapors of water that were divided in the process of forming the atmosphere. As far as your flat universe, I let you explain the imaginary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 maybe justus universe = earth? heaven[expanse] and earth [mass]= one body of lights uni is one and verse is collection or body of words. When they figure the what keeps the planets afloat, well let's just say that some would say the light within resists the light without. But how does one draw a vacuum on a expanding system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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