Aiyana Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I saw a Muslim woman today with EVERYTHING but her eyes covered. This isn't the first time I've seen such a thing (although it's been pretty rare), but it just struck me today as so, so sad. Unlike her Muslim sister who only covers the head, the fully covered woman is denied one of humanity's most basic... Oh, I don't even know what to call it. But what I'm talking about is the ability to communicate to a fellow human being using her facial expressions. How much of our human communication is done with smiles... frowns... smirks... nose scrunches... forehead wrinkles... eyebrow lifts? I just cannot imagine her life being FULL with the stripping of this form of communication. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I saw a Muslim woman today with EVERYTHING but her eyes covered. This isn't the first time I've seen such a thing (although it's been pretty rare), but it just struck me today as so, so sad. Unlike her Muslim sister who only covers the head, the fully covered woman is denied one of humanity's most basic... Oh, I don't even know what to call it. But what I'm talking about is the ability to communicate to a fellow human being using her facial expressions. How much of our human communication is done with smiles... frowns... smirks... nose scrunches... forehead wrinkles... eyebrow lifts? I just cannot imagine her life being FULL with the stripping of this form of communication. It's a small price to pay so that her husband will know that no other man can lust after her beauty. (This is my sarcastic face. You do realize I am being sarcastic, right?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Religion is all about controlling people, making normal seem bad, and selling them a happy eternal life for submission and martyrdom today. You'd think humans would have figured it all out by now, but even modern well-educated people are caught in this mind-virus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I'm one of the most staunch civil libertarians out there, but if I had my druthers, I'd ban the burka. I believe religious people aren't given a real choice (they live under threats of hell fire and shunning). I believe it is abusive to make someone hide from all human contact. We don't allow religious freedom to rubber stamp child abuse, so why do we allow it to psychologically abuse women? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I'm one of the most staunch civil libertarians out there, but if I had my druthers, I'd ban the burka. I believe religious people aren't given a real choice (they live under threats of hell fire and shunning). I believe it is abusive to make someone hide from all human contact. We don't allow religious freedom to rubber stamp child abuse, so why do we allow it to psychologically abuse women? So you don't feel that teaching a child to feel guilty about things in their religion in the west and teach them about the christian god through fear is child abuse? Personally i think the way the church treats children in general is abuse and totally condoned by most people in it. Not quite the same as the type of abuse many muslim women suffer I know but it feels partly the same to me just less visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I'm one of the most staunch civil libertarians out there, but if I had my druthers, I'd ban the burka. I believe religious people aren't given a real choice (they live under threats of hell fire and shunning). I believe it is abusive to make someone hide from all human contact. We don't allow religious freedom to rubber stamp child abuse, so why do we allow it to psychologically abuse women? So you don't feel that teaching a child to feel guilty about things in their religion in the west and teach them about the christian god through fear is child abuse? Personally i think the way the church treats children in general is abuse and totally condoned by most people in it. Not quite the same as the type of abuse many muslim women suffer I know but it feels partly the same to me just less visible. I'm not sure what I wrote would indicate I don't think that teaching kids the hell doctrine, etc... isn't child abuse. Quite the opposite. But banning the bee keeper suit is far less problematic than sending social workers around to xian households to question their kids. The abuse such a scenario would encourage would be far worse than the emotional abuse the kids already suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I'm one of the most staunch civil libertarians out there, but if I had my druthers, I'd ban the burka. I believe religious people aren't given a real choice (they live under threats of hell fire and shunning). I believe it is abusive to make someone hide from all human contact. We don't allow religious freedom to rubber stamp child abuse, so why do we allow it to psychologically abuse women? So you don't feel that teaching a child to feel guilty about things in their religion in the west and teach them about the christian god through fear is child abuse? Personally i think the way the church treats children in general is abuse and totally condoned by most people in it. Not quite the same as the type of abuse many muslim women suffer I know but it feels partly the same to me just less visible. I'm not sure what I wrote would indicate I don't think that teaching kids the hell doctrine, etc... isn't child abuse. Quite the opposite. But banning the bee keeper suit is far less problematic than sending social workers around to xian households to question their kids. The abuse such a scenario would encourage would be far worse than the emotional abuse the kids already suffer. It is the standard way the doctrine is taught... It is abusive that is all I meant based on your statement saying "We don't allow religious freedom to rubber stamp child abuse, so why do we allow it to psychologically abuse women?" That is all I meant. I would say it very much is allowed and totally ignored while issues over the Hijab are still very much being focuced on. I think the former is ignored because it is so mainstream no one accepts or sees it as abuse. I know I see it as abuse but what can you do about it when the majority say that I and others with that thought are wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Ah, I see what you were getting at. By 'not overlooking child abuse' I was thinking more in terms of physical abuse or refusal of medical care and such. I agree with you that emotional abuse is just as bad. It's just impractical to try and fix that with the sledge hammer of law and government oversight. The Hijab, however, is low-hanging fruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongWayAround Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I saw a Muslim woman today with EVERYTHING but her eyes covered. This isn't the first time I've seen such a thing (although it's been pretty rare), but it just struck me today as so, so sad. I saw a young family in Walmart this summer and the wife was completely covered as you describe while the husband was wearing a tee shirt, shorts and flip flops. I felt sad for the wife too and anger at the husband for his part in perpetuating the requirement that his wife dress like that in the heat of the summer while he is perfectly comfortable. I fell the same way toward pentecostal and church of god families that prohibit their daughters from wearing pants or cutting their hair so that it is very obvious they are different while attending public school. At the same time, the boys can dress like every other boy at public school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 You know, this is interesting. Re: Post 1, I'm totally blind, and have been my entire life, so never considered that part of the hijab, the facial expressions and all. Sure, I know they're important for people who can see, and that I do miss all that back and forth nonverbal nontactile communications. As to the hijab, the clothing is bad enough. But these women aren't even allowed to talk to another man. Muslim female apologists claim that it is protection from the sexuality of other men. As if all men are out there waiting to attack the woman. It's religious bullshit, for sure, and I don't think it's limited to the Muslims. The Xians are catching up. To my shame, I went along with the daughter attending youth group at a funny mentalist church - thanks for that expression, Buffetfan. Yes, I did, while I was entertaining certain doubts and was on my way to deconversion. Self-flagellating aside here, these terrorist wannabes at that Xian place disallowed public affection, promoted the ancient middle eastern idea that you are to only court that One true partner. I mishandled the situation grossly, I admit as much, referring to her youth leaders as Jihadists and the kingpin whatever that was as Osamu Bin Laden. So unfortunately, although I apologized a couple years ago, I have not been able to make any successful inroads RE: some of that stuff, although she does now accept that people date. You saw a poor woman in hijab? What a sad and yes terrifying sight. These Xians crave to be muslims though, only under a different name. They can't wait to blow shit up and knock shit down, in my opinion. At least their leadership. Reconstructionism is not a fringe: the whole amoral majority wants to be that. If we continue to let these run wild like they are, I'm betting in a generation we'll see Xian women wearing hijab too, maybe with a Cross jangling on the outside of it. Take a good look at the history of Afghanistan: These people were not always in hijab or under that fire god's laws. This was introduced by a different amoral 'majority' known as the Taliban in the 1980s. So, to me, it is terrifying for that poor woman who couldn't even talk to a male paramedic if she fell and broke her leg. But it's terrifying for our society too if these wild fundamentalist Xians end up going Taliban on the U.S. Not all of them will, of course: the Taliban excised and executed thousands who were not orthodox enough. But many will, with a good diet of the propaganda that's out there. My opinion, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Re: Post 1, I'm totally blind, and have been my entire life Forgive my ignorance, but how do you read the forum? Do you have some sort of text to voice program? Whatever you're doing. Props to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Yes, the technology we use is called screen reader. There are many, and Wikipedia has a pretty decent article on how it works in a basic sense. There's even one in the iPhone thse days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Nice. That must have opened a whole new world for you. Makes me happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentLoner Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I can't count how many times I've been out somewhere with my mom (she was raised muslim but her family never did the hijab crap) and seen a woman in a hijab yet wearing very fitting clothing, and my mom always makes a point of commenting sarcastically along the lines of "there's no point in covering your hair if I can see your ass shape." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted October 24, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted October 24, 2014 I can't count how many times I've been out somewhere with my mom (she was raised muslim but her family never did the hijab crap) and seen a woman in a hijab yet wearing very fitting clothing, and my mom always makes a point of commenting sarcastically along the lines of "there's no point in covering your hair if I can see your ass shape." HA! I said the exact same thing to my husband last time we took our grandkids to Chuck E Cheese. Plus she was wearing 4-inch stiletto heels! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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