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Goodbye Jesus

Something That I Still Need To Address.


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I've come a long way since my deconversion in the fall of 2012.  I've managed to get my depression and other issues under control.  It hasn't been an easy process but I'm not a mess like I was even just a few months ago.  There appears to be something I've overlooked.

When I was a Christian, my relationships with other people (mainly believers) wasn't that great.  I will spare you guys the long and convoluted details.  This has left a legacy in my mind that I haven't really payed much attention to until now.  I've noticed that when I begin to care about another human being, I'm consumed with anxiety.  The more I care about them the greater this anxiety becomes.  It's even gotten to the point that I begin to feel physically ill.  I do everything in my power not to let this show but hiding it isn't going to solve the problem.  Do any of you experience anything similar?

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Lemme take a stab here. It's almost like you're left being unable to trust anyone. If the relationships you tried to forge during your time in xtianity vanished into thin air so quickly, what's to say any other relationship will be any different? If you get too close to someone, you're afraid that they'll up and leave you without so much as a parting word on a moment's notice. Been there, done that. It's a struggle for me as well.

 

You were looking for authentic relationships with the people from your old church, and they couldn't offer that. Church relationships are often so shallow, and the kind of relationship you were trying to offer them was something they would never give you. 

 

But if I'm way out in left field, let me know.

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I've come a long way since my deconversion in the fall of 2012.  I've managed to get my depression and other issues under control.  It hasn't been an easy process but I'm not a mess like I was even just a few months ago.  There appears to be something I've overlooked.

 

When I was a Christian, my relationships with other people (mainly believers) wasn't that great.  I will spare you guys the long and convoluted details.  This has left a legacy in my mind that I haven't really payed much attention to until now.  I've noticed that when I begin to care about another human being, I'm consumed with anxiety.  The more I care about them the greater this anxiety becomes.  It's even gotten to the point that I begin to feel physically ill.  I do everything in my power not to let this show but hiding it isn't going to solve the problem.  Do any of you experience anything similar?

Lots of people suffer from stress relating to trauma from growing up in dysfunctional families. I've found there's help for it. I'm reading Homecoming by John Bradshaw..  seems like a decent introduction to the subject.

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Lemme take a stab here. It's almost like you're left being unable to trust anyone. If the relationships you tried to forge during your time in xtianity vanished into thin air so quickly, what's to say any other relationship will be any different? If you get too close to someone, you're afraid that they'll up and leave you without so much as a parting word on a moment's notice. Been there, done that. It's a struggle for me as well.

 

You were looking for authentic relationships with the people from your old church, and they couldn't offer that. Church relationships are often so shallow, and the kind of relationship you were trying to offer them was something they would never give you. 

 

But if I'm way out in left field, let me know.

It's not just that, those relationships existed in a state of perpetual instability.  You're basically spot on though.

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I've come a long way since my deconversion in the fall of 2012.  I've managed to get my depression and other issues under control.  It hasn't been an easy process but I'm not a mess like I was even just a few months ago.  There appears to be something I've overlooked.

 

When I was a Christian, my relationships with other people (mainly believers) wasn't that great.  I will spare you guys the long and convoluted details.  This has left a legacy in my mind that I haven't really payed much attention to until now.  I've noticed that when I begin to care about another human being, I'm consumed with anxiety.  The more I care about them the greater this anxiety becomes.  It's even gotten to the point that I begin to feel physically ill.  I do everything in my power not to let this show but hiding it isn't going to solve the problem.  Do any of you experience anything similar?

Lots of people suffer from stress relating to trauma from growing up in dysfunctional families. I've found there's help for it. I'm reading Homecoming by John Bradshaw..  seems like a decent introduction to the subject.

 

I didn't grow up in a dysfunctional family.  The problem started when I went out into the world and joined outside dysfunctional social circles.  I actually don't have a problem caring for immediate family members at all (my relatives are another story).

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Lemme take a stab here. It's almost like you're left being unable to trust anyone. If the relationships you tried to forge during your time in xtianity vanished into thin air so quickly, what's to say any other relationship will be any different? If you get too close to someone, you're afraid that they'll up and leave you without so much as a parting word on a moment's notice. Been there, done that. It's a struggle for me as well.

 

You were looking for authentic relationships with the people from your old church, and they couldn't offer that. Church relationships are often so shallow, and the kind of relationship you were trying to offer them was something they would never give you. 

 

But if I'm way out in left field, let me know.

It's not just that, those relationships existed in a state of perpetual instability.  You're basically spot on though.

 

 

Then yeah, you were looking for something that ultimately wasn't there. So was I, during the few years I spent playing church. You gave them more than they were willing (or able) to give you, and it was more than they deserved. They probably came around only when they wanted something, otherwise you were nothing to them, didn't they? On some level, you felt like that was what you deserved, you weren't good enough for them, and that their crap was as good as it gets for you. In reality, they weren't good enough for you.

 

You cared a lot about people who couldn't have cared less about you when push came to shove. From here on out, if they don't care, then you don't have to either. If they won't put in any effort, why should you? I learned these things the hard way.

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I didn't grow up in a dysfunctional family.  The problem started when I went out into the world and joined outside dysfunctional social circles.  I actually don't have a problem caring for immediate family members at all (my relatives are another story).

 

 

Ok, but you said your Christian relationships were not good either. Also, coming from a dysfunctional family doesn't mean caring less for family members.  But I don't know anything about your life, so no problem if I'm completely wrong.

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You say you get anxious and then physically ill when you begin to care about them.

 

Does that stop you expressing the emotions?  I ask because, as a teenager, I would become unable to eat and liable to vomit if I forced myself to eat under a similar sort of condition.  The answer (as I eventually found out) was to take a deep breath and actually express the emotion - it was the pent up caring, so to speak, that made me ill rather than the anxiety per se.

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Lemme take a stab here. It's almost like you're left being unable to trust anyone. If the relationships you tried to forge during your time in xtianity vanished into thin air so quickly, what's to say any other relationship will be any different? If you get too close to someone, you're afraid that they'll up and leave you without so much as a parting word on a moment's notice. Been there, done that. It's a struggle for me as well.

 

You were looking for authentic relationships with the people from your old church, and they couldn't offer that. Church relationships are often so shallow, and the kind of relationship you were trying to offer them was something they would never give you. 

 

But if I'm way out in left field, let me know.

It's not just that, those relationships existed in a state of perpetual instability.  You're basically spot on though.

 

 

Then yeah, you were looking for something that ultimately wasn't there. So was I, during the few years I spent playing church. You gave them more than they were willing (or able) to give you, and it was more than they deserved. They probably came around only when they wanted something, otherwise you were nothing to them, didn't they? On some level, you felt like that was what you deserved, you weren't good enough for them, and that their crap was as good as it gets for you. In reality, they weren't good enough for you.

 

You cared a lot about people who couldn't have cared less about you when push came to shove. From here on out, if they don't care, then you don't have to either. If they won't put in any effort, why should you? I learned these things the hard way.

 

Here is where the problem lies.  For ten years I almost solely hung out in Christian circles because I thought that they were the best humanity had to offer.  I just figured that kind of behavior was normal and I was doing something to deserve it.  The problem is, now that I interact with real, genuine human beings that mental programming hasn't gone away completely.  For the most part, your assessment is correct.

 

I'm just going to give you a few examples just so you understand the scope of what I dealt with.  One time my vehicle broke down a block away from a "friend's" house.  He had the tools and knowledge to help me make repairs but was too busy to bother because he had to attend some kind of church/prayer event.  I ended up buying tools and figuring out how to replace an alternator by myself (and carry a car battery for a mile to the nearest auto part store for a recharge).

 

Another incident happened when I decided to go kayaking with a female "friend".  After I've made plans and rented an extra kayak, she suddenly decides that god is convicting her about hanging out with males on a one to one basis and bailed.  Yet another female friend did something similar at a theme park.  This weird conviction shit made friendships with the opposite gender nearly impossible.  

 

A roommate of mine decided claimed that the sprinkler system was screwed up and the water bill was $500 one month.  I know he was full of it and was trying to find ways to make money.  Another roommate at the same place claimed that I had lustful intentions with the girls at church when I could hear him banging his girlfriend in the next room (you know, because I asked someone if she wanted to go kayaking).

 

Finally, one of the worst offenses of all.  Somebody offered me to stay at their place for a couple of weeks because I had to leave one apartment and the lease for the other one didn't start till the end of the month.  This person was going to pray over me as I ended up being temporarily homeless.

 

Again, the point I'm trying to make with this is that you eventually see this sort of behavior as normal and you begin to expect it all the time.  Even after leaving that toxic environment I still have to make an incredible effort to override that mental conditioning.  This is where the anxiety comes from.

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On reading this thread, I just want to say: fuck religion.

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Lemme take a stab here. It's almost like you're left being unable to trust anyone. If the relationships you tried to forge during your time in xtianity vanished into thin air so quickly, what's to say any other relationship will be any different? If you get too close to someone, you're afraid that they'll up and leave you without so much as a parting word on a moment's notice. Been there, done that. It's a struggle for me as well.

 

You were looking for authentic relationships with the people from your old church, and they couldn't offer that. Church relationships are often so shallow, and the kind of relationship you were trying to offer them was something they would never give you. 

 

But if I'm way out in left field, let me know.

It's not just that, those relationships existed in a state of perpetual instability.  You're basically spot on though.

 

 

Then yeah, you were looking for something that ultimately wasn't there. So was I, during the few years I spent playing church. You gave them more than they were willing (or able) to give you, and it was more than they deserved. They probably came around only when they wanted something, otherwise you were nothing to them, didn't they? On some level, you felt like that was what you deserved, you weren't good enough for them, and that their crap was as good as it gets for you. In reality, they weren't good enough for you.

 

You cared a lot about people who couldn't have cared less about you when push came to shove. From here on out, if they don't care, then you don't have to either. If they won't put in any effort, why should you? I learned these things the hard way.

 

Here is where the problem lies.  For ten years I almost solely hung out in Christian circles because I thought that they were the best humanity had to offer.  I just figured that kind of behavior was normal and I was doing something to deserve it.  The problem is, now that I interact with real, genuine human beings that mental programming hasn't gone away completely.  For the most part, your assessment is correct.

 

I'm just going to give you a few examples just so you understand the scope of what I dealt with.  One time my vehicle broke down a block away from a "friend's" house.  He had the tools and knowledge to help me make repairs but was too busy to bother because he had to attend some kind of church/prayer event.  I ended up buying tools and figuring out how to replace an alternator by myself (and carry a car battery for a mile to the nearest auto part store for a recharge).

 

Another incident happened when I decided to go kayaking with a female "friend".  After I've made plans and rented an extra kayak, she suddenly decides that god is convicting her about hanging out with males on a one to one basis and bailed.  Yet another female friend did something similar at a theme park.  This weird conviction shit made friendships with the opposite gender nearly impossible.  

 

A roommate of mine decided claimed that the sprinkler system was screwed up and the water bill was $500 one month.  I know he was full of it and was trying to find ways to make money.  Another roommate at the same place claimed that I had lustful intentions with the girls at church when I could hear him banging his girlfriend in the next room (you know, because I asked someone if she wanted to go kayaking).

 

Finally, one of the worst offenses of all.  Somebody offered me to stay at their place for a couple of weeks because I had to leave one apartment and the lease for the other one didn't start till the end of the month.  This person was going to pray over me as I ended up being temporarily homeless.

 

Again, the point I'm trying to make with this is that you eventually see this sort of behavior as normal and you begin to expect it all the time.  Even after leaving that toxic environment I still have to make an incredible effort to override that mental conditioning.  This is where the anxiety comes from.

 

 

You sure do, and then you get to a point where you learn to expect the worst out of people. Yep, that's me. I've learned to expect nothing, that way I won't be disappointed if the outcome turns out to be the worst case scenario. Those people sound like horrible excuses for human beings at worst, and total flakes at best. Good riddance to them either way. 

 

Maybe what you can do is observe potential friends to see if they have the qualities you're looking for, and when they prove themselves trustworthy, you can offer your gifts and your time to them. You've been screwed over repeatedly by those churchies, and you thought they were better people than this. For me, if someone wants a spot in my life, whether it's platonic or dating, they will get my time under the following conditions: they don't treat me like shit, they don't disrespect me, and they don't put me in harm's way. They do any or all of those things, they're out of my life. Maybe those are conditions you need to consider adopting for yourself. 

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