Roz Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 It's the 2nd biggest religion in the whole world. For any claimed christian skeptics out there, have you studied Islam to any extent? If so, why did its sacred texts not convince you that Allah is the one true God and that Mohammed (PBUH) is his prophet? EDIT: I should reiterate and clarify. This is for the authentic christian believers. You chose to be labeled as a christian, I'm taking this to mean that you've made the choice that christianity makes the most sense. I'm wondering if you've read about the 2nd largest alternative hypothesis. If you've studied Islam, then can you name some points as to why you rejected the religion. If not, what is currently preventing you from studying Islam? A billion plus people declare that this makes the most sense for them. Why have you not yet studied about it if for nothing else but to make a comparison analysis? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wololo Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I own a copy of the Koran (the expression of the lady at the counter when I bought it was priceless) and am studying it carefully. It's remarkably similar to Christianity. For a long time I've held that it's just an eastern culture with the same God as Christianity. I'd run into problems explaining and justifying that one though. If I was born in the Middle East, I'd probably be a Muslim. Culture plays a big part in what we find convincing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 "If you've studied Islam, then can you name some points as to why you rejected the religion." Saying that you are presently studying Islam is only a partial answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I own a copy of the Koran (the expression of the lady at the counter when I bought it was priceless) and am studying it carefully. It's remarkably similar to Christianity. For a long time I've held that it's just an eastern culture with the same God as Christianity. I'd run into problems explaining and justifying that one though. If I was born in the Middle East, I'd probably be a Muslim. Culture plays a big part in what we find convincing. So basically you just follow the crowd? Sort of a sad excuse for what religion one would choose over say not choosing one and avoiding the lies. Same god different prophet... They really are close aren't they but the execusion of both can be extrememly different and the ritual is often different as well. In the end both cause endless violence and death and have for many centuries...mostly fighting over which is right with each other while those of us who give no love to either are caught in the middle wondering why the rest of you can't just get the hell along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted October 29, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted October 29, 2014 If I was born in the Middle East, I'd probably be a Muslim. Culture plays a big part in what we find convincing. Precisely. You asked in another thread "How do you know I was programmed to think a certain way?" I think you've just provided the best answer possible for your own question. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 29, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted October 29, 2014 Nobody asked me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I could never be a Muslim. I love slutty women and bacon way too much. In fact at my age, it's mostly about the bacon. Oh, and it's also for the same reason I couldn't be Jewish and can no longer be Christian. The O.T. where all of it comes from just isn't true. To me, when the book of Genesis crumbled, the whole thing went down the crapper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wololo Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Correlation and causation are not the same thing. Just because culture has an influence doesn't mean it's the exclusive cause for my beliefs (if one can even say there's a cause for beliefs). I wouldn't extend the same argument that I made to most other religions. The reason there's this peculiar case with Islam is because it's so similar to Christianity. There are certainly differences, but in reference to the deity, they are amazingly similar. It would not be much of a stretch to move from one to the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 29, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted October 29, 2014 Correlation and causation are not the same thing. Just because culture has an influence doesn't mean it's the exclusive cause for my beliefs (if one can even say there's a cause for beliefs). I wouldn't extend the same argument that I made to most other religions. The reason there's this peculiar case with Islam is because it's so similar to Christianity. There are certainly differences, but in reference to the deity, they are amazingly similar. It would not be much of a stretch to move from one to the other. Quite true, and quite frightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 29, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted October 29, 2014 My earlier response that it's because "nobody asked me" deserves more consideration than might be apparent. Nobody ever asked me to be a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Druid, Voodoo Priest or Rastafarian. It seems, though, almost everybody wanted me to be a Christian since even before I was born. This is my society and culture, and that culture doesn't seriously entertain any beliefs not held by their families, forefathers and general community. Nothing about that circumstance indicates that Christianity has greater validity than many other religions, or any validity at all for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Islam: Salvation by deeds Christ: Salvation by grace I'm not going with a religious system that tells me how many times a day I must pray or forbids me from having a BBQ sandwich and a cold beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Why I felt attracted to Buddhism I'll never know. :-) It was a blatant violation of Amurican cultural protocol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 29, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted October 29, 2014 Islam: Salvation by deeds Christ: Salvation by grace I'm not going with a religious system that tells me how many times a day I must pray or forbids me from having a BBQ sandwich and a cold beer. But what if that's what God really wants? You can't dismiss a belief system simply because you don't like its rules. You need real reasons, like we had for leaving Christianity. Hint: it wasn't because we didn't like the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Islam: Salvation by deeds Christ: Salvation by grace I'm not going with a religious system that tells me how many times a day I must pray or forbids me from having a BBQ sandwich and a cold beer. But what if that's what God really wants? You can't dismiss a belief system simply because you don't like its rules. You need real reasons, like we had for leaving Christianity. Hint: it wasn't because we didn't like the rules. I'm going with the one without any rules. The truth will set you free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The Bible isn't even clear on the deeds vs. grace thing. "Go, and SIN NO MORE", kind of tells me that it isn't a carte blanche concept. That's a command for a permanent decision and action… not a get out of jail free card for the morally bankrupt. Personally, I could care less what anyone believes - I'm much more interested in what people do, or don't do. That tells me more about the kind of person you really are than anything else. I have a hard time thinking that a god would find it different… if it was actually wise. That was one of my problems with xtianity… the incredible lack of personal responsibility, and the hypocrisy. I find the non-religious much better people, in general. (though I judge on an individual basis, not by group) The influence of culture, and upbringing is very profound, deep, subconscious in a lot of ways and very difficult to shed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The Bible isn't even clear on the deeds vs. grace thing. "Go, and SIN NO MORE", kind of tells me that it isn't a carte blanche concept. That's a command for a permanent decision and action… not a get out of jail free card for the morally bankrupt. Personally, I could care less what anyone believes - I'm much more interested in what people do, or don't do. That tells me more about the kind of person you really are than anything else. I have a hard time thinking that a god would find it different… if it was actually wise. That was one of my problems with xtianity… the incredible lack of personal responsibility, and the hypocrisy. I find the non-religious much better people, in general. (though I judge on an individual basis, not by group) The influence of culture, and upbringing is very profound, deep, subconscious in a lot of ways and very difficult to shed. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. ~Ephesians 2:8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The Bible isn't even clear on the deeds vs. grace thing. "Go, and SIN NO MORE", kind of tells me that it isn't a carte blanche concept. That's a command for a permanent decision and action… not a get out of jail free card for the morally bankrupt. Personally, I could care less what anyone believes - I'm much more interested in what people do, or don't do. That tells me more about the kind of person you really are than anything else. I have a hard time thinking that a god would find it different… if it was actually wise. That was one of my problems with xtianity… the incredible lack of personal responsibility, and the hypocrisy. I find the non-religious much better people, in general. (though I judge on an individual basis, not by group) The influence of culture, and upbringing is very profound, deep, subconscious in a lot of ways and very difficult to shed. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. ~Ephesians 2:8 So Ravenstar is right and the Bible is NOT clear on the whole grace thing. I think the reason is because different parts of the Bible were written/edited by different men who didn't agree with each other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The Bible isn't even clear on the deeds vs. grace thing. "Go, and SIN NO MORE", kind of tells me that it isn't a carte blanche concept. That's a command for a permanent decision and action… not a get out of jail free card for the morally bankrupt. Personally, I could care less what anyone believes - I'm much more interested in what people do, or don't do. That tells me more about the kind of person you really are than anything else. I have a hard time thinking that a god would find it different… if it was actually wise. That was one of my problems with xtianity… the incredible lack of personal responsibility, and the hypocrisy. I find the non-religious much better people, in general. (though I judge on an individual basis, not by group) The influence of culture, and upbringing is very profound, deep, subconscious in a lot of ways and very difficult to shed. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. ~Ephesians 2:8 So Ravenstar is right and the Bible is NOT clear on the whole grace thing. I think the reason is because different parts of the Bible were written/edited by different men who didn't agree with each other. Was the verse I posted not clear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 This thread reminds me how much I enjoyed IH's hiatus in posting here. Such a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 This thread reminds me how much I enjoyed IH's hiatus in posting here. Such a troll. Troll? What is the definition of a troll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 This thread reminds me how much I enjoyed IH's hiatus in posting here. Such a troll. Troll? What is the definition of a troll? Someone who repeatedly asks inane questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 This thread reminds me how much I enjoyed IH's hiatus in posting here. Such a troll. Troll? What is the definition of a troll? Someone who repeatedly asks inane questions. Don't forget, it is also someone who creates threads on multiple forums for the purpose of preaching, while stating in the beginning that they're not interested in having a discussion; just interested in spreading their dogma. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted October 30, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted October 30, 2014 This thread reminds me how much I enjoyed IH's hiatus in posting here. Such a troll. Troll? What is the definition of a troll? Someone who repeatedly asks inane questions. Don't forget, it is also someone who creates threads on multiple forums for the purpose of preaching, while stating in the beginning that they're not interested in having a discussion; just interested in spreading their dogma. Meh. Forget Ironhorse. He's already proved he's dishonest. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Ah yes, Prof! But I've given him the option of owning up to his promise-breaking, his lack of trustworthiness and his trolling. Here... http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/65391-what-defines-and-drives-a-relationship/page-16#.VFJa8jSsWnI Posted Today, 01:28 AM ironhorse, on 29 Oct 2014 - 11:02 PM, said: florduh, on 29 Oct 2014 - 8:18 PM, said: The men who wrote the Bible say that men have two arms and two legs. Men actually DO have two arms and two legs; therefore the Bible is the Word of God! Got it, dumbass? (See, the Den was the right place for this all along. I hope some lurkers can learn a lesson from reading it.) I agree. I am praying the lurkers are reading these posts. Since you're so concerned about the lurkers Ironhorse, no doubt you'll want them to know the truth about you? That you can't be trusted, that you break your promises and that you've had a thread shut down for trolling, right? So, here's your chance to fess up to these things. The lurkers will now want to see how much this Christian loves the truth! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let's see how much Ironhorse loves the truth, eh? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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