Jaseph Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I'm rebelling against christianity now (based on my 100% sure rational conviction that christianity is untrue). I am aware that since the last days I am pretty hard core and I notice that most people who left christianity in their teens or never where raised in religion don't seem to care about religion and are much more open minded. I am totally against religion, it's painful to see how christianity influences most of my friends (christians). I am becoming pretty radical as an atheist and seeing that most people just don't care is strange to me. I thought they'd support me but I think they want to be tolerant or they just don't have the motivation or argumentation to be very strongly against religion. What are your experiences? do you get a lot of support from people who've never (really) believed now that you've left christianity? or do you, like me, don't feel a strong connection with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 You really cannot expect support from Christians who were raised in it. If you leave it, probably the best you can hope for is tolerance and them not trying to re-convert you. My advice, keep quiet unless the issue of religion is raised. Your wanting to be very radical is perfectly understandable from my point of view as an ex-c, but it is not understood by people who are still Christians. I don't really expect any support from anyone. But I am sort of old now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 "The only way to stay out of trouble is to grow old." - Line from the end of the movie Lady from Shanghai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Meh. The crimes that happen in Christianity are serious. Aside from that you really don't have to put much effort into it. If you have a relative who is not respecting their children because the children are not part of the religion or didn't turn out like the religion promised (fore example they might be gay) then sure speak up for the down trodden. Fight for equal rights for all. But outside of that I wouldn't bother. If moderate Christians want to deny the bad parts of the Bible and talk to their imaginary friend what is that to me as long as they leave me alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I'm rebelling against christianity now (based on my 100% sure rational conviction that christianity is untrue). I am aware that since the last days I am pretty hard core and I notice that most people who left christianity in their teens or never where raised in religion don't seem to care about religion and are much more open minded. I am totally against religion, it's painful to see how christianity influences most of my friends (christians). I am becoming pretty radical as an atheist and seeing that most people just don't care is strange to me. I thought they'd support me but I think they want to be tolerant or they just don't have the motivation or argumentation to be very strongly against religion. What are your experiences? do you get a lot of support from people who've never (really) believed now that you've left christianity? or do you, like me, don't feel a strong connection with them? That is a good observation. I think the feeling of hostility towards Christianity is natural among people who were intensely Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I understand how you feel. I have some pretty extreme views on what should be done to evangelical Christians (extreme in terms of deviation from typical beliefs, that is). Even people here do not concur with me, and I imagine that the average lifelong non-Christian would certainly not approve. But I think it is fairly intuitive that strength of hatred for Christianity correlates well with fervent former belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I understand. As i went through the process, it was disillusionment, confusion, fear etc. I have just now come out of the anger phase. I admit that after 13 years of abuse by the hands of jesus christ, i feel like it's my duty to become a hard-core militant against christianity. But I just don't see the point. I get it though, you want to fight back. That's what's great about this site, you can fight back through your own spoken word, with people here to suport you. Like an abused person who when someone around them lifts a hand they recoil back thinking they're going to get hit, when someone mentions christianity or jesus i recoil back almost in fear. Jesus Christ was truly abusive to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiyana Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I know what you mean. People who were never believers aren't really super interested in talking to me with my strong views. They just don't really get it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaseph Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 @Aiyana - indeed that's what I mean. My conclusion is that I should cool down and not try to convince them of the evils of religion. I may be anti-religion at the moment (because of the anger about how Christianity impacted my life and the desire to get as far away from it as possible), but I think them not caring about religion is in a way quite good, it's actually what I want for myself eventually. @bugsbunny - thanks for your post! indeed I went through the phases and now I am at the anger phase. I don't feel obliged to promote atheism though I admit I like to spread those ideas. Respect for people (no matter what they belief) is more important and starting arguments with christians and attacking their religion doesn't feel very respectful to me. But I don't mind giving my opinion when asked and i will argue if they attack me. So, indeed this is a phase of the process and I've decided to just live it. Are you still in the anger phase and what do/did you do while in it? @Bhim - yes, those things probably correlate. May I ask you what your extreme views are? @directionless - thanks for your understanding! @mymistake - I agree with you 100%. @sdelsolray - Nice quote @deva - I wasn't looking for support from christians, but (unconsciously) from non-christians and now I see that indeed I shouldn't expect such support from people who never cared about religion/never where really affected by it and so never had the need to develop a strong opinion about it either way. I do like the support I get from you and from the ex-christians I know in real life, I realize more and more how important this is to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 It is difficult for someone who was never a Christian to understand what it is like to have believed in Jesus with one's whole heart. That is the first part of it. So many never believers even see Christians as stupid, weak-minded, gullible, ignorant people (I do not see Christians that way) so they have no empathy towards them and their beliefs. If they cannot relate to having a strong belief in Jesus, how much more impossible to understand how earth-shattering it is to come to understand that the whole thing is a sham. That understanding is reserved for those of us who have experienced it and thus why ExC is so important! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Hi Jaseph. I'm happy to elaborate further on my views as requested, since I make no secret of my beliefs on this topic. Long story short, I do not believe evangelical Christianity should be protected by the religious freedom provisions of the Constitution (or equivalent documents in other nations), and I further believe that it should be a crime to convert a person to Christianity. To this end, for the past few months I've been collecting various information I receive from my former church and other organizations on secret missionary activity in India (where proselytizing is illegal in some states), and outing these missionaries to various individuals I know in Indian police departments. I don't know if these people are prosecuted or not, but this is my way of hindering the spread of Christianity and the destruction of my own religion through the lawful means that I have available to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Well the people I have come out to, who are already nonbelievers, were usually atheists anyhow. A few are in interfaith relationships of one form or another -- atheist with Christian or atheist with Wiccan or something. I guess my strong dislike for the religion itself is tempered by me trying to respect the humans still caught in it. You can hate the matrix and feel sorry for the people still caught in it. And for those that just get something out of it, without making trouble for everyone else, I have no issue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Hi Jaseph. I'm happy to elaborate further on my views as requested, since I make no secret of my beliefs on this topic. Long story short, I do not believe evangelical Christianity should be protected by the religious freedom provisions of the Constitution (or equivalent documents in other nations), and I further believe that it should be a crime to convert a person to Christianity. To this end, for the past few months I've been collecting various information I receive from my former church and other organizations on secret missionary activity in India (where proselytizing is illegal in some states), and outing these missionaries to various individuals I know in Indian police departments. I don't know if these people are prosecuted or not, but this is my way of hindering the spread of Christianity and the destruction of my own religion through the lawful means that I have available to me. Thanks for sharing this, Bhim. You have legal options most of us do not. What hits me is that if these missionaries are prosecuted, it only feeds the Christian persecution complex. It will be exaggerated and flaunted many times over in every land like Canada and the US where Christians prosper and suffer zero persecution but imagine that every protest against the utterance of public prayer and the passing of every law permitting abortion, gay marriage, and medically assisted death are an assault on their religion. Yet no one is forbidding them to pray or forcing them to abort their fetuses or kill their ill. They borrow persecution from far-off lands as their own and also count as persecution the complaints of their fellow citizens who want to live in peace without being force-fed religion. It's so complicated I don't know what to make of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Bhim, I didn't know it was illegal to proselytise in India. What is the historical background to this law? Does it apply only to xianity or other or all religions? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Thank you both for your comments. FreeThinkerNZ, as far as I know the anti - proselytizing laws are fairly new (though they predate PM Modi and the recent BJP victories). India has, for a long time, had a problem with evangelicals and Roman Catholics paying poor and low caste Hindus to convert. Such "rice Christians" (so-called since they converted for a mouthful of food) usually only receive financial assistance for a short period of time, but are permanently ostracized from their community. To combat this, several states including Gujarat passed laws prohibiting anyone from intimating that another person should convert to his religion for any material benefit. More recently, a law was also passed which prohibits p there religious groups from proselytizing their religion at Hindu temples and other holy sites (in principle no one can proselytize their religion at the site of another religion, but since only Christians proselytize it only applies to them). RS, I agree that Christians very wrongly cry persecution in America. Personally I don't even think they are persecuted in India. Proselytism isn't necessary to free practice of religion. Yes, Jesus commands it. But Islam commands holy war and even many Islamic states don't allow this. It's difficult for any free society to tolerate the beliefs of people who don't believe in that freedom. It's akin to America's reticent tolerance of neo-Nazism or white supremacy. Even if evangelicals were persecuted in India, it would be logically consistent with their worldview. In saying that America is a Christian nation, they accept the conceptual existance of theocratic states. If America is a Christian nation, then surely India is a Hindu one, and evangelicals ought to be a second class of citizens there. Furthermore, if evangelicals were persecuted in India, I would do nothing to prevent it and would even financially support such persecution if I could legally do so. Evangelical Christianity is a morally reprehensible religion. The belief that non-Christians go to an eternal torment is, at an intellectual level, baser than any other societal evil imaginable, and should never be tolerated. Provided that the hypothetical persecution can be abated by denying the doctrine of eternal conscious torment, count me a supporter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I'm rebelling against christianity now (based on my 100% sure rational conviction that christianity is untrue). I am aware that since the last days I am pretty hard core and I notice that most people who left christianity in their teens or never where raised in religion don't seem to care about religion and are much more open minded. I am totally against religion, it's painful to see how christianity influences most of my friends (christians). I am becoming pretty radical as an atheist and seeing that most people just don't care is strange to me. I thought they'd support me but I think they want to be tolerant or they just don't have the motivation or argumentation to be very strongly against religion. What are your experiences? do you get a lot of support from people who've never (really) believed now that you've left christianity? or do you, like me, don't feel a strong connection with them? Are you really doing anything different than a radical christian to rail against religion in that way? I don't do that because frankly if people want religion they have a right to it. The right I have is not to have it in the same way they do. My purpose is not to aggressively speak out against people but what the radical views people have on all sides of a topic do to them and us. People are people. I love them. Some of the ideas that people have come up with have grown large and dangerous over the centuries. Those are the things to be radical against. I support that you have your own views and that is what any good atheist should support. That is what most christians would deny you, the right to choose. All I want for them is their right to choose even if they choose what I feel is the wrong path. I am not here to prove god does not exist I am here to simply say if you say he exists prove it. There is always a lot more anger the older a person is when they seperate themselves from god(s). It would surely be easier in youth to remove yourself from it and the pain it causes faster. Just remember all those people have every right to believe how they choose as long as those personal beliefs do not infringe on yours. What christianity does as a whole is something different but it is not just you that it is being done to and it is humans doing it not doctrine. Be angry if you want just remember all those people are ex-christians just waiting to convert away from god with the right motivation just like they want to convert you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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