Free From Christianity

[DataLady]

Hi All, I have been lurking here for quite some time although I rarely post. I thought it was about time I submitted my extimony. Sorry it’s so long.

 

I was born and brought up in the North West of England. My parents were nominal Roman Catholics – in fact, my dad was actually an atheist although my mother has some vague beliefs. All the schools I attended while growing up were Catholic schools – between the ages of 11 and 18 I was at a convent school. I was quite happy at all my schools – the convent school was quite strict but no abuse that I knew of as has been known to happen at some convent schools.

 

Interestingly, one of the nuns taught both RE (religious education) and biology. In biology classes we were taught evolution as a fact, and in RE lessons we were taught not to take the creation stories in Genesis literally (the teacher pointed out the two creation stories in Genesis) but we were to interpret them as some sort of allegory about the consequences of sin. It was not until I was about 18 that I discovered that some Christians still took the creation stories in the Bible literally.

 

In my final year at school (a girls’ school) one of the nuns at my school, together with a monk who taught at a Catholic boys’ school, organised a prayer group on a Sunday evening where girls from my school could meet with and pray with boys at the other school. I really enjoyed these meetings, the teachers who ran the prayer group got the atmosphere going with dim lights and candles and some of these meetings could be quite emotional as we opened our hearts to God, and sang praise songs. This made me take my faith more seriously. Then when I left school, I went to college where there was a strong Christian Union. I heard a lot of teaching there that the Catholic faith was wrong and that to be a true Christian you had to repent, give your life to Jesus and accept him as your Lord and Saviour. I did this and started to attend an Evangelical Free Church. I got baptised by immersion there, much to the horror of my parents who thought I had joined some sort of cult (maybe I had!)

 

In 1983, after I left college, I got a job in London, about 200 miles from my home town (London is

where I still live). I started to attend Holy Trinity Brompton, a charismatic Anglican church (it is the church that started up the Alpha courses). I soon started to speak in tongues for the first time – this is something I can still do really easily even though I am no longer a believer. I now think the ‘words’ in my tongues ‘language’ come from somewhere in my subconscious mind rather than from the Holy Spirit.

 

Over the years, I lived in different parts of London and attended various different churches. I attended one particularly lively church for quite a few years. Then in 2008, the leadership at my church started getting excited about the Lakeland revival with Todd Bentley and some of them went over to find out what was going on. Some church members also went along and got all excited (remember, we are in the UK so this was a major trip). I started to get concerned when I heard of Todd Bentley’s methods of punching and kicking people, and that there was no real evidence of any of the alleged ‘healings’. Several people felt as I did and left that church. I, too, left that church and started to attend a fairly liberal Baptist church that had a woman minister.

 

Everything was great for a while, I sang in the worship group, helped with the software used to project the order of service on to the screen and ran the website. However, I think the Todd Bentley thing left me wondering why so many Christians had different points of view and everyone thought they were right and everyone else was wrong. I decided that it didn’t really matter as long as people believed the basics, for example, that Jesus died for us and rose from the dead, and that we needed to give our lives to him in order to be saved. I knew that there were a lot of ‘nasty’ passages in the Bible but always explained them away to myself, for example, that was a different time and a different culture, God did not give them any teaching they would not have accepted (this no longer makes sense to me, after all, he is God!). If I had any doubts, I just thought this was Satan trying to tempt me so dismissed the doubts and carried on believing and studying my Bible.

 

One thing in particular that bothered me was the issue of homosexuality. I just couldn’t understand why the Bible was so against it. I knew several gay people (in fact, my boss is gay) and they always seemed like normal decent people. I had pushed this issue out of my mind in the past but found it more and more difficult to do so. The Bible verses were very clear and the Bible was infallible – then one day the thought suddenly came into my mind “What if it’s not infallible?”. This thought shocked me, I had believed in the infallibility of the Bible since my college days in the early 1980s and it was now 2009.

 

One day in early 2009 I was googling for some information on a Christian topic. I don’t remember what it was but I accidentally came across the Ex-Christian site and went into it without noticing the nature of the site. When I read people’s comments on how they had given up the Christian faith and why, I was pretty shocked and felt I wanted to reply, to say that maybe people should give God a second chance and that maybe they should try a more liberal version of Christianity as I was doing. However, I didn’t do this and am now glad I did not! I came off the site and put it out of my mind.

 

From late 2009, I was finding it harder to hold on to the more liberal version of Christianity that I was now practising. I am not sure how people maintain a liberal faith as I was finding that now that I didn’t believe in the infallibility of scripture, I started to wonder what bits were true and what weren’t, and I felt my faith was starting to fall apart. I searched for the Ex-Christian site again and posted a message asking for advice on books that might help me, as I felt I would now like to explore the non-Christian point of view. I got some helpful replies, and the books that helped me the most were by Bart Ehrman about the history of the Bible. I also explored some atheist and other ex-Christian sites and found that the non-Christians’ arguments were always better than the Christians’ arguments.

 

I don’t know exactly when I decided I definitely no longer believed. To begin with, I would go through a few weeks feeling I no longer believed, followed by a few weeks of believing, and the cycle would continue. I can remember a period in early 2010 when I definitely felt I had turned back to God and was wondering why I had ever had problems with my faith. However, this only lasted for a few months. Then one day, I think it was March 2012, I remember being alone at home and saying out loud “I am not a Christian”. It felt quite scary but good at the same time. However, I continued to attend church. I was quite nervous of ‘coming out’ as a non-Christian and therefore kept quiet about it – only one person actually knew what had happened. This continued until February 2013 when all members of my church received an e-mail about Lent Bible study groups that we were all expected to take part in, with the name of our Bible study leader. I really didn’t feel like taking part in a Bible study group so plucked up the courage to e-mail my minister to explain that I no longer believed in Christianity with a summary of my reasons. She arranged to meet up with me to discuss this – we had a very friendly discussion and she put no pressure on me at all. We decided I would stop attending for the time being, and that I would make a definite decision by the end of June whether I wanted to officially leave the church (I already knew I would, but didn’t want it to seem too abrupt). Anyway, when June came around, I e-mailed the minister again to confirm that I was definitely leaving. The people at my former church are actually really friendly and no one has put any pressure on me. I am still friends with a lot of them on Facebook.

 

Since early 2012, I have been practising yoga and meditation and have become quite interested in Eastern spirituality. I feel this is much more ‘me’ than Christianity. I have also explored Buddhism and liberal Quakerism (which is extremely non-dogmatic, but still a bit too Christian for me!). I also feel that my mind has been set free as I can have my own thoughts and opinions without thinking “what does the Bible say about this? What is the Lord’s will?” Also, I no longer have the worry that my atheist dad, who died in 1985, is burning in hell. As a Christian whenever a prayer was not answered, I would go round in circles with thoughts such as “Maybe I’ve sinned and displeased the Lord in some way. Or maybe Satan’s having a go at me. Or maybe the Lord is trying to teach me something. Yes, he may be teaching me patience, I have to keep praying and believing. Or maybe I’ve sinned …”, etc etc. It feels so good to have let go of all that.

[DataLady]

Sorry, me again. Just another point I wanted to mention. When I first started to have doubts about Christianity, I couldn't bring myself to pray any more. At the same time, I felt nervous because my life had always seemed to run quite smoothly and I was convinced that this was because I prayed regularly. I was really expecting everything to start going wrong for me now that I wasn't praying, and to my surprise everything continued as before. This definitely helped the deconversion process.

[Overcame Faith]

Welcome to ExC, Datalady, or perhaps I should say welcome back.

 

I am glad you posted your extimony. I enjoyed reading it. One of the things you wrote of is how the various denominations disagree with each other and how each think they are right and that the others are wrong. That in itself speaks to the conflicts in the Bible and how it could not be a message from God since one would think that if God had a message for us, he would write it clearly, concisely, and consistently so we would all understand the same message.

 

Good for you for leaving the religion behind. It is, indeed, a freeing experience.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Welcome, Datalady.  

 

I can relate to a lot of what you said, I too became a liberal christian in an effort to make it work, but eventually I just realised I no longer believed in god and that it was all made up.  That was 8 months ago and it's been wonderful to be free and to be able to think my own thoughts.  

 

There are a few people here who are into Eastern spirituality, if you're interested there is an "ex-christian spirituality" sub-forum, and you can get permission to post in there by sending a private message to the subforum moderator, who is Deva.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Sorry, me again. Just another point I wanted to mention. When I first started to have doubts about Christianity, I couldn't bring myself to pray any more. At the same time, I felt nervous because my life had always seemed to run quite smoothly and I was convinced that this was because I prayed regularly. I was really expecting everything to start going wrong for me now that I wasn't praying, and to my surprise everything continued as before. This definitely helped the deconversion process.

I went through a bit of the same thing.  I had always believed that without god in my life I wouldn't have peace.  Funny thing is: the complete lack of peace in my life was one of the reasons I wanted out of christianity.  No jesus, know peace.

[directionless]

Thanks for the extimony, DataLady.

[Burny]

Thanks for sharing. That thought you had that started the whole deconversion, "What if it's not infallible" is the exact thought that started it for me. I didn't even realize it at the time, but on reflection that's where I started to have serious doubts.

 

Modern xtianity has several issues that will eventually be its downfall. The largest issue they have is that they want to have it both ways. They want a heaven without a hell (what's the point of a savior without something to save us from?!), they want evolution but guided somehow by God (what about sin? what about millions of years of suffering by countless living things?), they want the Bible, but only the parts they like (what about stories that don't make sense like Jesus floating up into heaven or miracles?). They want science, but only if it agrees with their 'feelings' of what 'must be true'.

 

Welcome to ex-c and welcome to freedom.

[Orbit]

Welcome to the forum. I also practice meditation and am interested in Eastern philosophy. As you post, you'll find others who share your interests.

[Deidre]

Welcome to the forums, and I'm happy you are freee!

[♦ ficino ♦]

Great to hear your story, Datalady! Welcome as, I hope, now a "non-lurker"!

[Deva]

Thanks for your testimony Datalady, and welcome to the forums! 

[Aiyana]

I really relate to what you said about your dad. My dad is still living, but learning that he was an atheist in 2011 was one of the biggest building blocks in my road to deconversion.

 

Reading just now how you were able to let go of the fear that your dad has burnt in hell since 1985 caused some strong emotions in me. On one hand, I am so happy that you have been set free of such a horrible thing. But on the other hand, it made me see once more what a horrible religion Christianity is. Even though we are grown women, there is a part of us that will always be our Daddy's little girl. What kind of a monster throws little girls' daddies into fire to burn forever? It's so insane.

[DataLady]

Thanks for all the friendly replies.  Regarding my dad, I kind of managed to push thoughts of him being in hell from my mind.  It's only after I deconverted that I realised that those worries had been stronger than I thought, as it was such a feeling of relief when I realised that there is no hell.  However, I must admit that when I first started having doubts about my faith one of my first thoughts was "If I get this wrong, I'll go to hell!"  My fear of hell has now completely gone though.

[Ellinas]

A slightly belated welcome.

 

Thankfully I had already rejected Christianity when my father died two years ago - though the prospect of my family burning in hell had certainly been an issue for me years earlier.  Something I was never able to rationalize was how heaven can be paradise for those who know their loved ones are hopelessly damned.  It always struck me as false when those loving Christians would just shrug their shoulders over their "unsaved" relations and say with a smile that it was "in god's hands" - as if that could possibly make a difference.

[SquareOne]

Welcome, thank you for sharing.

 

I too was deeply disturbed by the Todd Bentley affair and how people swallowed up his violent garbage.  I left my first church because of their support for Lakeland, and was fairly well forgotten about and maligned by all my "friends" there after that.  That should have set off alarm bells but I persisted in the church for four years after that still.

 

Some people do seem to drift towards more liberal or eastern religions, like yourself.  I saw, do what makes you happy.  But, I only caution that you might find other religions as equally hollow in the end.

 

I myself choose to wonder at the beauty of nature and the revelations of science, which are always superior.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXEiKPxCSdA

 

If you want to be awe inspired, ladies and gentlemen - and let me say, let me just tell you that those of us who do not believe that we are divinely created let alone divinely supervised are not immune to the idea of awe and beauty and the transcendent - let me invite you to look for a moment at the pictures taken by the Hubble telescope.  Some of you may have done it.  If you haven’t done it now or yet, do it soon.  The extraordinary revelations of swirling yet somehow beautiful new galaxies in colour and depth and majesty like nothing I think the human eye has ever seen. Turn away form that if you wish, and gaze at a burning bush in an illiterate desert part of the Middle East and say that’s where revelation comes from.  I don’t believe you’d be able to do it.

Christopher Hitchens

[DataLady]

Nice video.  I am not actually looking for another religion although when I first deconverted I did look into some other religions.  I suppose it's more the philosophy behind the Eastern religions that I like.  I enjoy yoga, meditation and even the occasional bit of chanting although I don't literally believe in the Hindu gods mentioned in the chants.  However, I have no interest in trying to convert anyone to my point of view - in fact it's such a relief not to have to be a 'witness' any more.  I won't say any more on this subject here as I know it's not the right place and that there is a spirituality forum which I have just been given access to.

[TheHappyWarrior]

Thank you for your testimony, DataLady! Its really encouraging to see people who went through these cycles of belief and unbelief before fully deconverting as I think that will be the way I turn out in the end. I definitely agree with you about liberal Christianity-while there are many liberal Christians I know whom I like and respect-I've found its theology logically inconsistent (if there is a God and He gave His revelation in the form of Scripture, how would it not be completely correct and without defects or mistakes?) both as a Christian and as an agnodeist. 

[Merlin]

DataLady, I just want you to know that I'm happy for you.  I too was raised in a strict Christian environment.  My father was a minister, and I was forced to attend a Christian private school.  It took me many years to find my way out of it all.  People who have not been in your position may find it hard to understand just how far, deep, and damaging the brainwashing process can be - especially when it starts at such a young age.  I'm just really glad that you found the courage and strength of mind to walk away from all of it.  Keep searching.  You will find that the possibilities for personal growth and intellectual development are nearly endless now that you don't have the fear of condemnation and eternal damnation hanging over your head and impeding your ability to reason.  :-)

[traveller2]

Welcome to the forums Datalady and I too enjoyed your testimony.
You will get alot of support and help of this site.I remember thinking same things and feeling shocked first time I visited here long before my own deconversion.
Good to hav another brit here with ur experience. I attended St Barnabas at Woodside Park for three years in the 1990s which is similar to Holy Trinity.

[Woodsy]

Sorry, me again. Just another point I wanted to mention. When I first started to have doubts about Christianity, I couldn't bring myself to pray any more. At the same time, I felt nervous because my life had always seemed to run quite smoothly and I was convinced that this was because I prayed regularly. I was really expecting everything to start going wrong for me now that I wasn't praying, and to my surprise everything continued as before. This definitely helped the deconversion process.

Me,too,DataLady. And welcome! It's been a year and a half since I started my deconversion and prayer was the first hurdle. When I realized I couldn't believe in xianity any longer, I couldn't pray and I thought I'd be damned. It was a scary time but I got over it and found that life goes on whether you pray or not.

 

Thanks for your extimony!

[ax345]

... I have been practicing yoga and meditation and have become quite interested in Eastern spirituality. I feel this is much more ‘me’ than Christianity...

I resent Christianity (at lest the brand of it I was immersed in) for making anything from the "self" be doubted as flawed or even Satanic.  "Die to yourself", "Put away the old man, put on the new", or whatever the quotes were...what a sick load of horse manure.