Popular Post Castiel233 Posted November 8, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted November 8, 2014 Estimates vary on how many human beings have ever existed, the upper limit being around the 100 billion mark. Think about this number. The Bible makes its clear that very very nearly everyone goes to Hell and very very few people go to be a slave in Heaven.What sort of percent goes downstairs, lets say 99 percent. 99 billion people have (or will have) their names checked off in the book of life. They didn't make the grade, perhaps they never heard the gospel, perhaps they were born after Jesus but before the NT was written. A Chinese woman living and dying in China in 90AD has to go to Hell because god is "just" even thou she had zero chance of hearing the "good" news. So for nigh on 20 centuries this woman has been blasted in a furnace. She can never die again. The "good" lord has made her immortal and given her the ability to feel pain. On earth she loved her family, cared for her children and created a happy home. She never heard of Jesus, did not know of the 39 articles, could never have understood the scheme of salvation as she was born far away and it had not been written down. yet still she burns in a Christian world view because she inherited a "crime" committed by someone else.Picture a different scene. A brutal dictator takes a prisoner by gun point to a room. In this room are are 5000 cups all placed upside down. Under one of these cups is a ping pong ball, all the rest are empty. The prisoner is told he gets to lift up just one cup. If the ball is there, he goes free, if not he is taken away and set on fire. The dictator informs him that he has not right to complain. His oppressor is all powerful and knows what he is doing. A 1 in 5000 chance is no chance. The prisoner refuses to "play" and is killed anyway. His family complains but are told the man was given a chance and the choice to exercise his free will. Its not the dictators fault he died.If the Christian faith is true we are given virtually no chance at all and zero feedback this side of eternity. Its a rigged game that cannot be won so why bother playing 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 That was the conclusion i came to. That it's a rigged game nobody can win. Like those games at fairs or carnivals where they make the basketball hoop just a little too small so the ball won't go in. Christianity is like that. Jesus sits there at heaven's fair and tells people to step right up and play the game of eternal life. Golden crowns are hanging all around him, as he encourages you to play "his" game. Only just like the basketball game, it's all a farce. LIke the old saying, your damned if you do, your damned if you don't. Either way, when it comes to christianity----you lose. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 I remember hearing some preacher on the radio saying that you had to be certain you are saved. Today I thank that guy, because that statement led me to examine how it could or would be possible to attain certainty on that question. I realized it was impossible to attain complete certainty and that was one of the reasons I left Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted November 8, 2014 Author Share Posted November 8, 2014 The whole idea sickens me, You are saved from something by err well the very same something that is threatening you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaPirate Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 The whole idea sickens me, You are saved from something by err well the very same something that is threatening you Yep. That's some sick, twisted shit right there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 It's a religion. Not an individual belief system - something that is worked out by and only of relevance to the individual holding those beliefs - but an organized "faith". Therefore it has nothing to do with any concept of deity, the divine, perfection, love or anything else claimed for it, and everything to do with social control and conformity. That, as I see it, the whole basis for the illogicality and unfairness of the Christian economy.. If you're "in" you are acceptable and accepted; if not you are rejected and damned. It's nothing more than a form of tribalistic prejudice (not insult intended to tribal societies) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I think the whole concept of hell is simply an ingenious tool of mind control and/or manipulation by those who wish to influence the masses for their own gain. It's brilliant.Even though there's absolutely zero evidence that such a place exists, or even that it would be possible for such a place to exist, it's such a horrible concept that it doesn't need to actually exist to be completely effective form of mind control. It's so incomprehensible to most people that just the mere thought of it is enough to have them praying, tithing, babbling in tongues, lying for Jebus, drinking poison or dancing with rattle snakes just to avoid it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Brilliant thread. And to think, people teach hell to little children. That, right there, is evil. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Hell is a morally reprehensible concept and it's nothing more than an evil, fear-based myth. The Christian idea that we are all damned because a talking snake convinced two obviously mythical people to eat magic fruit from a magic tree is ridiculous. And the Christian doctrine of substitutionary atonement is barbaric. A religion that alternates between being ridiculous and being barbaric cannot possibly be true. For some reason, this glorious thread reminds me of this glorious tune: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Don't forget how they like to trot out criminals converted to Christianity. Ted Bundy, Carla Faye Tucker and some of the Manson family all converts to Christianity, while their victims burn forever, and that is supposed to be grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 http://www.cvaieee.org/html/humor/hell_explained.html Hell Explained by an Engineering Student The following is a question given on a Thermodynamics exam: Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)? Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law (gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following: First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added. This gives two possibilities: If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over. So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, "It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you," and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then number two must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over. The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, extinct—leaving only Heaven, thereby proving the existence of a divine being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting "Oh my God." The student received an A+. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 Don't forget how they like to trot out criminals converted to Christianity. Ted Bundy, Carla Faye Tucker and some of the Manson family all converts to Christianity, while their victims burn forever, and that is supposed to be grace. That is another sicken aspect to the faith, Ted Bundy is given a harp purely beacuse of the views he held in relation to Yahweh the dreadful just prior to his death, while his victims are shoved into a oven by "meek and gentle" Jesus. It says a lot I think about Bible God, that he prefers the company of a repented serial killer to that of the unrepentent victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 http://www.cvaieee.org/html/humor/hell_explained.html Hell Explained by an Engineering Student The following is a question given on a Thermodynamics exam: Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)? Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law (gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following: First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added. This gives two possibilities: If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over. So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, "It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you," and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then number two must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over. The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, extinct—leaving only Heaven, thereby proving the existence of a divine being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting "Oh my God." The student received an A+. That is the funniest post I've ever read. A+ indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 It's a religion. Not an individual belief system - something that is worked out by and only of relevance to the individual holding those beliefs - but an organized "faith". Therefore it has nothing to do with any concept of deity, the divine, perfection, love or anything else claimed for it, and everything to do with social control and conformity. That, as I see it, the whole basis for the illogicality and unfairness of the Christian economy.. If you're "in" you are acceptable and accepted; if not you are rejected and damned. It's nothing more than a form of tribalistic prejudice (not insult intended to tribal societies) I disagree. It is an individual belief system. It's only becomes a religion when the mass come together on the same beliefs. The fact that there are so many denominations and people within the same church holding different beliefs proves it's an individual belief system. Even when I went to church, my christianity was always personal. (my 2 shekels) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 The whole idea sickens me, You are saved from something by err well the very same something that is threatening you Yesterday i was flipping through the t.v. channels and came across these christian choir people from chapel hill. They were singing this lovely little ditty about how the savior is born blah-blah-blah-----I am sitting there (annoyed first and foremost) thinking to myself, these people are singing about the person that's going to cast them into hell when they die. They are literally singing to a divine murderer who is going to torture them when they die. Now that i am no longer a christian, it actually makes me sick when i think about the bible, it's god and the bibles doctrine. And people sing songs to this psychopath.....just sick----and yes the whole of christianity is disgusting. A god who abhors violence, yet is the most violent being ever written about. A god that tells his helpless creation that he has "prepared the instruments of death for them". A god that tells you he'll save you if you call upon his name, so you do, then he doesn't save you. If all liars will have their part in the lake of fire, then jesus and his god deserve to go there too. The whole thing is satanic with it's anti-life/anti-human/anti-anything that makes you happy doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 It's a religion. Not an individual belief system - something that is worked out by and only of relevance to the individual holding those beliefs - but an organized "faith". Therefore it has nothing to do with any concept of deity, the divine, perfection, love or anything else claimed for it, and everything to do with social control and conformity. That, as I see it, the whole basis for the illogicality and unfairness of the Christian economy.. If you're "in" you are acceptable and accepted; if not you are rejected and damned. It's nothing more than a form of tribalistic prejudice (not insult intended to tribal societies) I disagree. It is an individual belief system. It's only becomes a religion when the mass come together on the same beliefs. The fact that there are so many denominations and people within the same church holding different beliefs proves it's an individual belief system. Even when I went to church, my christianity was always personal. (my 2 shekels) So are you saying that you were not influenced by the doctrines that your peers were pumping into you? That your beliefs were not basically what you were taught/told to believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedouin Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Hell had to be invented. If people were told that they would go to heaven by believing in jesus and obeying the priests, but the alternative was, well, nothing, most folks would be like "meh." But add hell, and that's a game changer. Diabolically clever, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 It's a religion. Not an individual belief system - something that is worked out by and only of relevance to the individual holding those beliefs - but an organized "faith". Therefore it has nothing to do with any concept of deity, the divine, perfection, love or anything else claimed for it, and everything to do with social control and conformity. That, as I see it, the whole basis for the illogicality and unfairness of the Christian economy.. If you're "in" you are acceptable and accepted; if not you are rejected and damned. It's nothing more than a form of tribalistic prejudice (not insult intended to tribal societies) I disagree. It is an individual belief system. It's only becomes a religion when the mass come together on the same beliefs. The fact that there are so many denominations and people within the same church holding different beliefs proves it's an individual belief system. Even when I went to church, my christianity was always personal. (my 2 shekels) So are you saying that you were not influenced by the doctrines that your peers were pumping into you? That your beliefs were not basically what you were taught/told to believe? People can be fed the exact same doctrine yet think/hold different beliefs about what it means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Deva: I know, right? "Are you sure that you're saved?" "Yes, of course." "Are you REALLY sure?" "Yes." "Do you know in the very depths of your soul that Jesus Christ is your LORD AND SAVIOR?!?! Sure Satan hasn't told you lies and tricked you into believing you are a child of gawd?" "Well..." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 It's a religion. Not an individual belief system - something that is worked out by and only of relevance to the individual holding those beliefs - but an organized "faith". Therefore it has nothing to do with any concept of deity, the divine, perfection, love or anything else claimed for it, and everything to do with social control and conformity. That, as I see it, the whole basis for the illogicality and unfairness of the Christian economy.. If you're "in" you are acceptable and accepted; if not you are rejected and damned. It's nothing more than a form of tribalistic prejudice (not insult intended to tribal societies) I disagree. It is an individual belief system. It's only becomes a religion when the mass come together on the same beliefs. The fact that there are so many denominations and people within the same church holding different beliefs proves it's an individual belief system. Even when I went to church, my christianity was always personal. (my 2 shekels) So are you saying that you were not influenced by the doctrines that your peers were pumping into you? That your beliefs were not basically what you were taught/told to believe? People can be fed the exact same doctrine yet think/hold different beliefs about what it means. True enough. Taking that in isolation, however, would lead me to conclude that there is no such thing as an organized faith. I don't see how this alters the point that Christianity requires and seeks to impose doctrinal orthodoxy of whatever flavour pertains to the particular church or denomination in view. It seeks conformity and can only accept individualist interpretation within (admittedly variable) limits - forcing such individuals either to keep quiet or move on. At least, that's my experience through three denominations and one stand alone "fellowship" over several decades.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Don't forget how they like to trot out criminals converted to Christianity. Ted Bundy, Carla Faye Tucker and some of the Manson family all converts to Christianity, while their victims burn forever, and that is supposed to be grace. Yup got a cousin just like that. In and out of jail, meth head, thief. This is what he put on FB today: "I thank god for waking me up today because he didn't have to and it wasn't promised." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 It's a religion. Not an individual belief system - something that is worked out by and only of relevance to the individual holding those beliefs - but an organized "faith". Therefore it has nothing to do with any concept of deity, the divine, perfection, love or anything else claimed for it, and everything to do with social control and conformity. That, as I see it, the whole basis for the illogicality and unfairness of the Christian economy.. If you're "in" you are acceptable and accepted; if not you are rejected and damned. It's nothing more than a form of tribalistic prejudice (not insult intended to tribal societies) I disagree. It is an individual belief system. It's only becomes a religion when the mass come together on the same beliefs. The fact that there are so many denominations and people within the same church holding different beliefs proves it's an individual belief system. Even when I went to church, my christianity was always personal. (my 2 shekels) So are you saying that you were not influenced by the doctrines that your peers were pumping into you? That your beliefs were not basically what you were taught/told to believe? People can be fed the exact same doctrine yet think/hold different beliefs about what it means. True enough. Taking that in isolation, however, would lead me to conclude that there is no such thing as an organized faith. I don't see how this alters the point that Christianity requires and seeks to impose doctrinal orthodoxy of whatever flavour pertains to the particular church or denomination in view. It seeks conformity and can only accept individualist interpretation within (admittedly variable) limits - forcing such individuals either to keep quiet or move on. At least, that's my experience through three denominations and one stand alone "fellowship" over several decades.. Uhg....i'll repeat myself again. It doesn't matter what the flavour of the particular church or denomination is. It may seek conformity, but it never will. I have been at this game for too long to believe anything else. I know for a fact that in my years of experience no matter what the church demanded conformity too, people over and over admitted they were of different beliefs. Take for example a church that preaches nothing but free will, yet people in that same church hold to predestination. Over and over again people who are of different beliefs or of different christian faiths still reside in the same church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 We've both been at this game too long, I suspect, and with views shaped by our experiences that will not easily be moved. I wasn't trying to persuade you that you were necessarily wrong - just to work out how you were looking at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 To use a redditism: This. Hell is one of the sickest things we have thought up in the history of humanity. This is not an exaggeration. It means tormenting people for eternity. ETERNITY. To put this into perspective. You know these medieval torture devices? Have you heard of the Chinese water dripping torture? All of these tortures are damn painful, but they last only for a few hours or a day or more. They may, at worst, be done during decades. But that is nothing compared to eternity. No break, no mercy. Have you heard that the entire universe will die in a matter of trillion years? How about a googol "year"? Let's put it like thus. A trillion years: 1,000,000,000,000 years. A googol amount of years is significantly longer than that. It is: 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. That's damn long. No human will ever live longer than that amount of years. Not even the longest lived particles of this universe will live as long as that. Hell will go on much longer, much more. All humans under torture will go insane, no exceptions. Just imagine the amount of insanity that will result during an eternity's worth of hell. Let's look at the pain of the physical torments of Hell. Let's take fire. It is the classical tool of Hell's torture. Everybody knows fire are painful to touch (with a few exceptions of party tricks) and that burns will ensure. Read this Wikipedia article on burns. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn The ideal way to inflict pain via fire are: First and second degree burns. That means the maximum amount of pain will ensue. 4th degree would inflict psychological pain if the tormented are resurrected from death. Fire will break off skin, fat, etc. It would be a painful and psychologically destabilising injury/death. What does this mean for the doctrine of hell? It means that God wants you to suffer for two humans who ate fruits for ever. It will mean that you are more innocent than God. It means even Hitler and any torturers who ever lived are less evil than God. As Ingersoll said, "God is the only true criminal in the universe." Fortunately, God is not real. But this does not reassure us because the fact some humans have thought up Hell means that there are really sick mofos out there who would torture as long as they could do that. This means that Hell is a products of minds who will not forgive and who enjoys pain. It means that we who oppose Hell must act better than God and the inventors of Hell. Veterini, the leader of Ankh Morpork, in Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, said, "It is our moral duty to be superior to the gods." I agree and we must do our duty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 We've both been at this game too long, I suspect, and with views shaped by our experiences that will not easily be moved. I wasn't trying to persuade you that you were necessarily wrong - just to work out how you were looking at this. Yeah christianity definitely jacked me. I appreciate your point of views though. -Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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