Massa Peccati -- Corpus Peccatti

[sdelsolray]

 

 

Your statement: "Christianity teaches that we non-believers are lumps of evil."

 

That is incorrect. The scriptures teach we are all evil. We are all sinners.

 

 

As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;

 

~Romans 3:10

 

Does this mean that we are programmed to be sinners? If so, then do you believe that we have free will? If you believe both of those things to be true, then explain how two contradictory ideas can both be factual.

 

 

To answer this question you first need to understand the diffrence between the two questions.

 

"Does this mean that we are programmed to be sinners"

 

Means we are born with the disire to rebel against God's morals.

 

 "If so, then do you believe that we have free will"

 

This means we can make a decision follow God or not to follow God.

 

As you can clearly see, these two ideas are not contradictory at all. One means one thing, the other means another. 

 

 

 

 

 

You should learn how to use the quote function properly.  Respond ENTIRELY BELOW and OUTSIDE OF the item(s) you quoted.

 

See how I did it?  My response is here.  Not up there.

[mymistake]

 

 

But what is a sinner?

 

The answer is simple. A sinner is anyone who rebels against God.

 

How do we know we have rebeled?

 

God's word lays down that foundation so that we may know if we are.

 

 

"If Christianity says that I am a lump of sin, then why do I feel so good?"

 

Only you can answer that, but I have a question, which is: How should sin feel? I mean, before you can know you must have some sort of reference by which to make such a jugement.

 

"And if what I judge as "good" is what they judge as "evil," then what reason would I have to want to convert and destroy it?"

 

I guess none. Because if you are happy living in your sin, then why move away from it. This is a point I was making in another post. At the time, before I found God, I was perfectly happy living as I wanted. But once my eyes were open, I could understand his word, I was changed. Not because I all of sudden chose to change, but because it just happened. I can explain it now, but it still suprises me on how, just with words, then later followed up by God's actions, I was transformed.

 

"What do I really know about the "lump of goodness" they would offer me as an alternative?"

 

This sounds like "What do I get if I believe"

 

I myself never come to God looking for gifts. I came to him because first I discovered him, then I found that his heart matched mine, in other words, I believe in what he believes in, and so on and so forth. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To answer this question you first need to understand the diffrence between the two questions.

 

"Does this mean that we are programmed to be sinners"

 

Means we are born with the disire to rebel against God's morals.

 

 "If so, then do you believe that we have free will"

 

This means we can make a decision follow God or not to follow God.

 

As you can clearly see, these two ideas are not contradictory at all. One means one thing, the other means another. 

 

 

 

 

 

Eror 404

 

god not found

 

1.  First produce this god.  (You will fail)

 

2.  Then demonstrate that this god interacts with our world.  (You can't.  God not found.) 

 

3.  Then demonstrate that this god actually cares about us.  (You can't - same reason.) 

 

4.  Then demonstrate that this god is offended by any human activity.  (What god?)

 

Only after all four steps are complete (will never happen) can you tell us about sin.

 

 

Now get to work Mr. Snake Oil Salesman.

[Strategos]

Christians: explain how and why we are all evil.  And if we are not all evil, why would there need to be a savior?

 

 

Of course to answer that question, you need to have a reference point, which for us is God's word. With that said, I can clearly answer that. If God tells us not to do something and we do it, then we have rebelled, thus we have sinned. And if we have sinned, then we have committed an evil act. Why, because is the authority of what is good and not good. 

 

You see, it is God's morality, which is written in his word, that defines what is evil. So therefore evil can be defined as any act that rebels against the morality of God. It's not hard to understand. Even from a logic point of few outside of God, a person can come to understand this.

 

For example, this is how society come to the same conclusion but for it's own ends.

 

You have a man that has willfully murdered another. He may have a good reason in many people's eyes for doing it, yet by the laws that govern the land, in this case, America, he is guilt of taking a life and must pay for this regardless of why he did it, this is of course if he is found to have done the act, leave no stone unturn I say. This man has rebelled against society, their laws, so we classify this as an act of evil. The difference between this and God's definition of evil is that of God's morality.

 

You see, that man has committed a crime, so he must pay. There is no morality here, its a simple case of you broke the law. But in God's eyes, he has done an evil act, not because man's law was broken, but because it is morally wrong to do this. This is regardless if he gets a good attorney and gets off.

 

This does bring up and interesting question for you to ponder though, and that is: What is man's law created from? If all of man's laws have some bases in morality, then the next logical question is where did man get his morality?

 

Now before you say morality comes naturally, or from nature, consider this: In nature there is no morality. I know this because we see it isn't in nature, beside nature can't afford it. For example, it would be a disadvantage for a bug to worry about it pray or care whether it is right or wrong in killing it. It's only a question of hunger, which is only a question of survival.

 

 

 

[Strategos]

 

 

 

The proposition of being saved is believing that Christ saves...hence the big arguments of faith vs. works. In other words, we all may live a righteous life and feel great, but the mechanism that gets us to Heaven is Jesus.

 

There is no heaven.  There is no mechanism to get to a place that does not exist.

 

What does that have to do with the question she asked?

 

 

All Christian answers ring hollow.  Isn't the OP a rhetorical question that drives home that point?  In fact most of the threads here and even the entire website exists because Christian answers are hollow.

 

 

Every way you look at Christianity it fails.  People struggle with this because they were indoctrinated from an early age to think that is crazy.  So they see the reality of Christian failure but they have the indoctrination telling them that can't be the answer and it's a train wreck.

 

"If Christianity says that I am a lump of sin, then why do I feel so good?"

 

- Because Christianity is wrong, of course.

 

 

"And if what I judge as "good" is what they judge as "evil," then what reason would I have to want to convert and destroy it?"

 

- Same solution.  Christianity is wrong. 

 

<Christianity is wrong> is the solution to so many questions.

 

A lot of assumptions here. Prove all that you say, if not, then I'll take it as rhetorical and discount it. The ball is as much in your court as it is im ours.

[Strategos]

Ironhorse, please explain how god can know through his omniscience what choices I will make if I have the free will to make any choice I want to.

 

Logice will dictate the way, my man.

 

You can still have free will even if God knows your choices because he simply lets you make them and you fall on your face, knowing all the time you were going to.

 

Also, I read on here that someone said if people don't believe in God they will burn, this not the whole story, for I say to you what Jesus said, which is:

 

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. ²² Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many ^[a]miracles?’ ²³ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

 

So, as you can see, many believers will find themselves in the same boat, least anyone can boast.

[Strategos]

I know by the consequences.. not that hard to figure out if one is moderately aware.

 

I also know that realistically it is not possible to live and interact with others without causing some reaction - negative or positive. Some people are going to be hurt, sometimes. But I am comfortable knowing that I have examined myself and my choices deeply enough to have caused the least possible damage and that I very rarely do anything which is intentionally harmful.(I may lose my temper once in a blue moon and say something I regret.. I always own up and make amends) I take full responsibility for my choices and actions.

 

I don't believe in perfection - perfection is a fantasy, just progress and doing my best. That's good enough. 

Are you omnipotent? I mean, that you can see all that your actions do. Intresting.

[Ravenstar]

We have a new visitor… whose reading comprehension seems to match his peers!

 

awesome

[Strategos]

 

 

 

The proposition of being saved is believing that Christ saves...hence the big arguments of faith vs. works. In other words, we all may live a righteous life and feel great, but the mechanism that gets us to Heaven is Jesus.

 

There is no heaven.  There is no mechanism to get to a place that does not exist.

 

 

Prove this statement. We are asked to do this all the time, so why should you be excluded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Christian concept of heaven was a mish-mash of ideas stolen from Greek, Roman and Egyptian religions; religions that Christians declare to be false.

 

QED

 

You're welcome.

 

 

 

I think Sam Harris said it best.  To paraphrase, there is no soul.  Human activity has been mapped to specific areas of the brain.  When one of these areas is lost in an accident the person loses that part of their function that part of the brain gave.  You consciousness is simply a creation of your brain.  Those who have lost function from having lost part of their brain will not regain that function when their mythical soul lifts off of their body.  You are the activity of your brain and when that activity stops you no longer exist as an entity.

 

Here:

 

 

 

There is no Stovokor where you will join Kahless if the Valkyries thought you were brave in battle.

 

"The Christian concept of heaven was a mish-mash of ideas stolen from Greek, Roman and Egyptian religions; religions that Christians declare to be false"

 

So, I see, I'm to take your for it, because you got the word from someone else. No prove here. I don't know if you understand the corner you have backed yourself into, but in the end I doubt that will matter much.

 

And the video, I watched before, and came to the same conclusion. Granted, he is one smart guy, but like all of you, the same cornor awaits.

[Strategos]

We have a new visitor… whose reading comprehension seems to match his peers!

 

awesome

And here we have another that believe her irrelevant statement carries with it absolute fact.

[duderonomy]

Onward Christian soldiers.  Strat, you need more training, IMHO, before you can call yourself a warrior of Christ.

[Strategos]

 

We have a new visitor… whose reading comprehension seems to match his peers!

 

awesome

And here we have another that believe her irrelevant statement carries with it absolute fact.

 

Hold on, may being a non believer allows this behavor. That must be it.

[duderonomy]

And Jesus said, "Lo, go forth into the world and be an arrogant prick that will set the entire world on it's ear by the very words you type."

[Strategos]

Btw Ravenstar, your comment was somewhat hurtful, not that I didn't espect it. The question I have is: did you know it was going to hurt me? I'm guessing you did, after all, we now know how absolutly preceptive you are about all the actions you take. 

 

In any case, you and I are accountable for all our words and actions right? With that said, I wish you well tonight.

[Strategos]

And Jesus said, "Lo, go forth into the world and be an arrogant prick that will set the entire world on it's ear by the very words you type."

He said no such thing, but then again you most likely knew that. I however, must make this clear, least someone come along and think this is basicly what he said, give or take a nasty word or two. Just keeping it real, sir. The party is over there, go have a drink. (:

[Strategos]

Also, before I leave the lions in this den, I would like to leave you with one last bit of information, that being:

 

A fight is only a good fight if the one you are fighting has his hands tied behind his back.

 

Best wishes to all, and to all a good night.

[mymistake]

 I don't know if you understand the corner you have backed yourself into . . . . . 

 

 

 

 

 

Very funny.  The denial is strong in this one.

[mymistake]

 

And Jesus said, "Lo, go forth into the world and be an arrogant prick that will set the entire world on it's ear by the very words you type."

He said no such thing, but then again you most likely knew that. 

 

 

 

You are correct, sir!

 

Imaginary people did not actually say anything at all.  Harry Potter only speaks within his fictional story.  He never made a noise in the real world.  While Jesus says all sorts of things within the imagination of believers or within the preaching and written work of con artists Jesus Christ didn't utter a single word in the real world.

[mymistake]

Also, before I leave the lions in this den, I would like to leave you with one last bit of information, that being:

 

A fight is only a good fight if the one you are fighting has his hands tied behind his back.

 

Best wishes to all, and to all a good night.

 

Can't tie your hands behind your back since you have already taken the liberty to amputate your arms.  It's not our fault if you come to a website dedicated to documenting all the failures of Christianity and you won't bother to see any of them.  But the slight insult you received counts as persecution for your faith, right?

 

 

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

 

 

Your statement: "Christianity teaches that we non-believers are lumps of evil."

 

That is incorrect. The scriptures teach we are all evil. We are all sinners.

 

 

As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;

 

~Romans 3:10

 

Does this mean that we are programmed to be sinners? If so, then do you believe that we have free will? If you believe both of those things to be true, then explain how two contradictory ideas can both be factual.

To answer this question you first need to understand the diffrence between the two questions.

 

"Does this mean that we are programmed to be sinners"

 

Means we are born with the disire to rebel against God's morals.

 

 "If so, then do you believe that we have free will"

 

This means we can make a decision follow God or not to follow God.

 

As you can clearly see, these two ideas are not contradictory at all. One means one thing, the other means another.

 

If we are all born with a desire to rebel against Yahweh's morals, then surely that desire must be programmed into us, otherwise, we wouldn't all be born with it. This means that we would indeed be programmed to be sinners. Our ability to "choose" to sin would merely be an illusion, not an act of free choice.

 

You may be right though that we can make a decision to follow or not to follow Yahweh, but if our programming to rebel against him influences our ability to make such a decision, then the decision can't fully be ours, can it?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

Ironhorse, please explain how god can know through his omniscience what choices I will make if I have the free will to make any choice I want to.

 

Logice will dictate the way, my man.

 

You can still have free will even if God knows your choices because he simply lets you make them and you fall on your face, knowing all the time you were going to.

 

Also, I read on here that someone said if people don't believe in God they will burn, this not the whole story, for I say to you what Jesus said, which is:

 

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. ²² Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many ^[a]miracles?’ ²³ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

 

So, as you can see, many believers will find themselves in the same boat, least anyone can boast.

 

If god already knows what choice I will make, then my choice has been predetermined, maybe not by god himself, but by someone who then informs god of what choice I will make.

 

In other words, if I have free will, then god can't know in advance what choice I will make.  Therefore, god can not be omniscient.  If, on the other hand, god knows what choice I will make, then god can't change the choice I'm going to make.  Therefore, god can not be omnpotent.

 

So, to summarize, you can either have an omniscient god and predestination; or you can have an omnipotent god and free will.  You can't have it both ways, as logic demonstrates.

[Fweethawt]

I was going to post to the Massa Peccati, but I have better things to do like playing Massa Effecti.

[Ravenstar]

 

We have a new visitor… whose reading comprehension seems to match his peers!

 

awesome

And here we have another that believe her irrelevant statement carries with it absolute fact.

 

What does the word 'seems' mean to you? Grammar 101 - if I had meant my statement (tongue-in-cheek, I might add) to be one of fact I would have said, "We have a new visitor… whose reading comprehension matches his peers." Since it is an unsupported claim it is merely my opinion. (No prescience nor omniscience required).

 

Your response however, supports my claim.

 

Thanks for playing!  

[mikey101]

 

Pretty sure Christians know that Mike....maybe not so much new converts, but...

 

You're pretty sure that Christians know they promote elitism and religious intolerance by proclaiming Jesus is the only way?  

 

Well, I would have to agree with you.  

 

I think people who believe that would be quite sure of their elite position and that other religions shouldn't be tolerated. After all, they lead to hell, so why should they be tolerated?  And since we (Christians) have exclusive access to the Truth, of course we are the elite in God's eyes.  It's all very easy to understand and quite natural to the ego.

[midniterider]

 

 

 

The proposition of being saved is believing that Christ saves...hence the big arguments of faith vs. works. In other words, we all may live a righteous life and feel great, but the mechanism that gets us to Heaven is Jesus.

 

There is no heaven.  There is no mechanism to get to a place that does not exist.

 

 

Prove this statement. We are asked to do this all the time, so why should you be excluded.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Christian concept of heaven was a mish-mash of ideas stolen from Greek, Roman and Egyptian religions; religions that Christians declare to be false.

 

QED

 

You're welcome.

 

 

 

I think Sam Harris said it best.  To paraphrase, there is no soul.  Human activity has been mapped to specific areas of the brain.  When one of these areas is lost in an accident the person loses that part of their function that part of the brain gave.  You consciousness is simply a creation of your brain.  Those who have lost function from having lost part of their brain will not regain that function when their mythical soul lifts off of their body.  You are the activity of your brain and when that activity stops you no longer exist as an entity.

 

Here:

 

 

 

There is no Stovokor where you will join Kahless if the Valkyries thought you were brave in battle.

 

 

So today was not a good day to die?! 

 

Throws down my bat'leth in disgust.

[midniterider]

I was going to post to the Massa Peccati, but I have better things to do like playing Massa Effecti.

 

Massa Peccati is good with an Alfredo sauce and garlic bread. mmmmmmm.