A Definition Of Spirituality

[FreeThinkerNZ]

 

 

“Spirituality is about being awake. It’s the attempt to transcend the mundane, sleepwalking experience of life we all fall into, to tap into the wonder of being a conscious and grateful thing in the midst of an astonishing universe. It doesn’t require religion. Religion can, in fact, and often does, blunt our awareness by substituting false (and dare I say inferior) wonders for real ones. It’s a fine joke on ourselves that most of what we call spirituality is actually about putting ourselves to sleep.” 

― Dale McGowan

 

This is a definition of spirituality I can agree with.  

 

Since leaving xianity I feel like I have woken up, and am at times aware of being a "conscious and grateful thing in the midst of an astonishing universe".  

 

I don't need to believe in anything supernatural to agree with Dale McGowan's definition.

 

Thoughts?

[Deva]

I agree with the statement about "transcending the mundane..."  That would be a partial definition.  It is also experiencing the sacred, the numinous or the holy, pursuing a meaning to life and not being preoccupied with materialistic pursuits. 

 

Its true this can be done without religion, for example, someone may be inspired by the appearance of the universe or some particular aspect of it.  It is very close to aesthetics (the appreciation of art and beauty).

 

I say religion can be a positive means to discovering spirituality, or it can be a negative one. It depends on the person's individual psychology and the particular religion's effect on that person. 

[Orbit]

 

“Spirituality is about being awake. It’s the attempt to transcend the mundane, sleepwalking experience of life we all fall into, to tap into the wonder of being a conscious and grateful thing in the midst of an astonishing universe. It doesn’t require religion. Religion can, in fact, and often does, blunt our awareness by substituting false (and dare I say inferior) wonders for real ones. It’s a fine joke on ourselves that most of what we call spirituality is actually about putting ourselves to sleep.” 

― Dale McGowan

 

This is a definition of spirituality I can agree with.  

 

Since leaving xianity I feel like I have woken up, and am at times aware of being a "conscious and grateful thing in the midst of an astonishing universe".  

 

I don't need to believe in anything supernatural to agree with Dale McGowan's definition.

 

Thoughts?

 

Your definition here is actually very Buddhist. Buddha, after all means "the man who woke up" and Buddhism is about being awake and seeing things as they really are. I think the takeaway from this is just because an idea is attached to a religion, you don't have to throw it out. I am in the process of "rescuing" what I can from religion myself, and find it quite useful. As I've said elsewhere, I rejected the dogma, not the wisdom.

[mikey101]

The problem I have with it is, religious people always think they're awake and the other is asleep.  In that regard, I don't see how religion and spirituality are any different.  

 

Rather than being awake and other's asleep, maybe 'real' spirituality doesn't make those judgments?  And maybe 'real' spirituality is just extreme humaneness, ie having a lot of heart.

[Orbit]

The problem I have with it is, religious people always think they're awake and the other is asleep.  In that regard, I don't see how religion and spirituality are any different.  

 

Rather than being awake and other's asleep, maybe 'real' spirituality doesn't make those judgments?  And maybe 'real' spirituality is just extreme humaneness, ie having a lot of heart.

Yes Mikey, the religious tend to be intolerant, but we aren't religious. Spirituality exists separate from religion, and it's not a contest to see who is the most awake, or enlightened, it's an experience within yourself of your true self. It's a connection with your subconscious, with the universe, with life. That's not religious, that's human.

[mikey101]

 

The problem I have with it is, religious people always think they're awake and the other is asleep.  In that regard, I don't see how religion and spirituality are any different.  

 

Rather than being awake and other's asleep, maybe 'real' spirituality doesn't make those judgments?  And maybe 'real' spirituality is just extreme humaneness, ie having a lot of heart.

Yes Mikey, the religious tend to be intolerant, but we aren't religious. Spirituality exists separate from religion, and it's not a contest to see who is the most awake, or enlightened, it's an experience within yourself of your true self. It's a connection with your subconscious, with the universe, with life. That's not religious, that's human.

 

I understand what you're saying, but religious people can experience their beliefs just the same as spiritual people do. Buddhists, Native Americans, Indigenous religions, Hindus, ancestor worshipers, animal worshipers, etc have profound experiences.  Yet many of them do not consider themselves 'religious'.  The other guy who believes differently or has different practices is the one that's religious, the guy that doesn't have the 'real thing' like we do.

 

The belief in a true self and our idea of connection with life and the universe may seem inherently obvious to us, and we may experience it, which validates our belief.  But a person with different beliefs can can see them inherently obvious as well. We're from the West so naturally we lean towards New Age type beliefs, because that's one of the defining religious movements of our society, which is growing

 

It still boils down to "what we have is real, what they have is not real", which is what religions do.  We might not think our beliefs are beliefs, but are something real and true, but people with completely different beliefs do the same thing.  

 

I would guess that pure spirituality/religion doesn't have this judgment. So I don't consider myself spiritual, I consider myself someone interested in becoming spiritual.

[Orbit]

 

 

The problem I have with it is, religious people always think they're awake and the other is asleep.  In that regard, I don't see how religion and spirituality are any different.  

 

Rather than being awake and other's asleep, maybe 'real' spirituality doesn't make those judgments?  And maybe 'real' spirituality is just extreme humaneness, ie having a lot of heart.

Yes Mikey, the religious tend to be intolerant, but we aren't religious. Spirituality exists separate from religion, and it's not a contest to see who is the most awake, or enlightened, it's an experience within yourself of your true self. It's a connection with your subconscious, with the universe, with life. That's not religious, that's human.

 

I understand what you're saying, but religious people can experience their beliefs just the same as spiritual people do. Buddhists, Native Americans, Indigenous religions, Hindus, ancestor worshipers, animal worshipers, etc have profound experiences.  Yet many of them do not consider themselves 'religious'.  The other guy who believes differently or has different practices is the one that's religious, the guy that doesn't have the 'real thing' like we do.

 

The belief in a true self and our idea of connection with life and the universe may seem inherently obvious to us, and we may experience it, which validates our belief.  But a person with different beliefs can can see them inherently obvious as well. We're from the West so naturally we lean towards New Age type beliefs, because that's one of the defining religious movements of our society, which is growing

 

It still boils down to "what we have is real, what they have is not real", which is what religions do.  We might not think our beliefs are beliefs, but are something real and true, but people with completely different beliefs do the same thing.  

 

I would guess that pure spirituality/religion doesn't have this judgment. So I don't consider myself spiritual, I consider myself someone interested in becoming spiritual.

 

I've never said that what others have isn't spiritual, so I'm not sure how you're getting that from what I said. Religious people can have spiritual experiences, and so can non-religious people. Spiritual isn't a description of who one is, it's a description of an experience one has. The form that your path to the spiritual takes will be unique to you.

[mikey101]

I've never said that what others have isn't spiritual, so I'm not sure how you're getting that from what I said. Religious people can have spiritual experiences, and so can non-religious people. Spiritual isn't a description of who one is, it's a description of an experience one has. The form that your path to the spiritual takes will be unique to you.

 

I'm sure it can be defined in many ways, just as religion can. If we believe in popular New Age beliefs like true self, someone could say we are into religion, since New Age is considered a religious movement.  Or someone can say they are not religious at all, but just have spiritual experiences.  Naturally we  want to see ourselves in the best light possible, so if we see religion as a negative thing, we aren't going to consider ourselves religious.  

 

When religions become institutions and rely on doctrine, they seem to deviate from their spiritual roots, but regardless it's still about individuals experiencing their beliefs first hand. So I don't really see that much of a difference.  

[florduh]

The working definition of the word has changed over time. It used to be tied exclusively to religion, but today it is used more to show a differentiation from religion. How many times have we heard, "I'm spiritual, not religious."

 

Most who consider themselves to be spiritual must accept certain beliefs just as one would in any religion. Most spiritual people I'm familiar with consider themselves to have transcended mere religion and now understand an unseen reality that religion can only comprehend as shadows. They're further along on their "path." I'll assume there are those who are not like that, lest I offend someone with a generalization. Forgive me for I am an unenlightened reductionist of the first order, or so I've been told by my enlightened brethren.

 

Of course we also have those who would claim to be spiritual because they get goosebumps when experiencing great sunsets or grand vistas from a mountain top.

 

I guess the word "spirituality" can mean just about anything these days. Or nothing.

[mikey101]

I hear you there. I've been called unenlightened by those who've transcended religion into spiritual reality.  I think it really pissed them off when I said they kind of reminded me of fundie Christians in their attitude about different religions than theirs.  First mistake was comparing them to their enemy, second was calling them religious. I hadn't experienced the Truth like they did, so I was one of the unenlightened.  Christians called me demon possessed.  I can't seem to get along with any spiritual group.

[Orbit]

I hear you there. I've been called unenlightened by those who've transcended religion into spiritual reality.  I think it really pissed them off when I said they kind of reminded me of fundie Christians in their attitude about different religions than theirs.  First mistake was comparing them to their enemy, second was calling them religious. I hadn't experienced the Truth like they did, so I was one of the unenlightened.  Christians called me demon possessed.  I can't seem to get along with any spiritual group.

I don't think you'll find these people on ExC.

[mikey101]

I don't think you'll find these people on ExC. 

Thanks. I think ex-Christians are a little more sensitive to this kind of thing and can understand my hesitation.  When you've heard Christians talking about how spiritual they are and others aren't, and then heard the same thing in New Age circles, it causes alot of apprehension about it.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

The working definition of the word has changed over time. It used to be tied exclusively to religion, but today it is used more to show a differentiation from religion. How many times have we heard, "I'm spiritual, not religious."

 

Most who consider themselves to be spiritual must accept certain beliefs just as one would in any religion. Most spiritual people I'm familiar with consider themselves to have transcended mere religion and now understand an unseen reality that religion can only comprehend as shadows. They're further along on their "path." I'll assume there are those who are not like that, lest I offend someone with a generalization. Forgive me for I am an unenlightened reductionist of the first order, or so I've been told by my enlightened brethren.

 

Of course we also have those who would claim to be spiritual because they get goosebumps when experiencing great sunsets or grand vistas from a mountain top.

 

I guess the word "spirituality" can mean just about anything these days. Or nothing.

 

I think there are as many definitions of spirituality as there are people trying to define it.  What's the first rule of discussion that we seek  to apply in places like the Den?  Define your terms.  

 

I happen to like McGowan's definition because it simply celebrates the material world, which is all I believe there is.  I don't get goosebumps experiencing great sunsets or grand vistas from a mountain top.  But I do feel pretty good when I learn something new about the natural world through science, such as how many billions of galaxies there are, or that humans evolved from single-celled organisms.  Anyone who isn't impressed by the natural world when reading or watching a good source about those things is perhaps not paying attention.

 

When I say I am awake now, I am not talking about some cosmic enlightening, or saying that others are asleep.  I am only speaking for myself.  When I was satisfied with the bizarre, petty, pre-scientific answers proposed by the bible, asleep is a good word to describe what I was.  Now that I see the bible for what it is, and have found out a tiny bit of what humans have learned about the world through science, it is awe-inspiring.

 

I most certainly am not a person who claims to "now understand an unseen reality that religion can only comprehend as shadows".  I am a reductionist who appreciates the simplicity and complexity of the natural world and who celebrates escaping a religion that stopped me from knowing about that.  I have zero interest in Buddhism or spiritual practices and "experiences" that "spiritual people" talk about.  McGowan is an accomplished atheist author and speaker.  I think his definition is one I can align myself with.  Other definitions such as the ones you refer to I cannot. Not at all.

[mikey101]

I understand FreeThinker. I realize you aren't like the people I was describing.  

 

I got triggered today, I wasn't in a good emotional state. The thing is, I'm really interested in spirituality, but sometimes just the words 'transcend' or ' awaken' scares the shit out of me because of the past abuse. I realize it's my problem though, not anyone else's. 

[FreeThinkerNZ]

 

 

“Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light‐years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. So are our emotions in the presence of great art or music or literature, or acts of exemplary selfless courage such as those of Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both.” 

― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

 

More food for thought.  

[florduh]

I get it, FTNZ, and I'm in agreement. I just think the term carries too much baggage and presents an inaccurate picture of people who think as we do. The vast majority who label themselves "spiritual" believe all sorts of stuff we don't.

[Cousin Ricky]

That’s a definition of spirituality that I can use, and like many other naturalists (including Carl Sagan, Sam Harris, and Penn Jillette), I refuse to cede the term to the religious and the New Agers.

My reason for not ceding the term is that there is clearly a physical experience associated with what the religious call “spirituality,” an experience that is shared by religious and non-religious alike.

Still, I insist on a definition whenever someone else talks to me about “spirituality,” and I explain myself to others in order not to give others a false impression of my beliefs.

[florduh]

...I refuse to cede the term to the religious and the New Agers.

 

But they had it first. Is it such a great term that we must steal it for our own purposes?

 

I can't help but see this as co-opting a term that is widely in use but with a meaning quite apart from describing us. I can relate to McGowan's philosophy, but to call that by a term so closely associated with Chopra, Spiritualism, crystal healing, psychics, soul travel and holy roller churches is just inaccurate, IMO. If we simply must assign ourselves a label let's find one not in use and let it describe our views, not those of Shirley MacLaine, Bob Larson and Lobsang Rampa.

[Orbit]

I can talk about spirituality in materialist terms but I find that the terms associated to Eastern philosophies are far better suited to describing the actual experience. I'll happily give up some of my atheist street cred to be able to talk about my experiences better. I personally find the paranoia about using anything except strict materialist terms puzzling. It's just a different language, one better suited to describing actual spiritual experiences, something better than "I entered an alpha wave state and experienced depersonalization". It's just too dry, and something is lost.

[florduh]

I can talk about spirituality in materialist terms but I find that the terms associated to Eastern philosophies are far better suited to describing the actual experience. I'll happily give up some of my atheist street cred to be able to talk about my experiences better. I personally find the paranoia about using anything except strict materialist terms puzzling. It's just a different language, one better suited to describing actual spiritual experiences, something better than "I entered an alpha wave state and experienced depersonalization". It's just too dry, and something is lost.

I didn't say which terms were right or wrong for describing a feeling. I simply object to using the label "spiritual" if you don't mean to imply everything the word stands for today. The derogatory term for most of this is "woo" and I don't think that's what you practice. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Brother Jeff]

I tried Eastern spirituality on for size a couple of years ago or so, and for a while I really liked it. I especially liked the teachings of Eknath Easwaran. His 8-Point Program for spirituality is appealing, and it uses religion is a positive way. I find nothing at all wrong with it. But, ultimately, I was unable to continue practicing it because I knew there was no evidence backing up the beliefs that I was trying to embrace. I didn't want to make the same mistake with another set of teachings that I had with Christianity. So, I dropped it and since then I have fully embraced materialist atheism. But I still appreciate a lot about Hinduism and Buddhism. 

 

My spirituality now is being a good person and helping others when I can. My spirituality is about feeling One with Nature when I go on a wilderness hike or even just on a walk on the beautiful trails in town (Anchorage, AK). I have lived here in Anchorage for ten years now, and the incredible natural beauty I am surrounded by never ceases to be jaw-dropping awesome. I have what I would call spiritual experiences just driving around town and seeing the mountains and the trees. During the winter months, the snow in the mountains is incredibly beautiful. During the summer months, the lush greenery I am surrounded by is amazing. I get to live in a place that is amazingly beautiful year round. That's my spirituality now.

 

I like the definition of spirituality Sister NZ gave in her OP. Scenery like this is my spirituality, along with just being a good person and being the best ME that I can be. This photo was taken in the park behind our neighborhood on April 15, 2013.

 

 

 

[mikey101]

Doctors are talking about yoga, meditation and eating grass now. Hugging trees isn't just for quacks anymore, Everyone's on weed and Ayahuasca.  New Age is infiltrating Western science.  Our grandchildren will be talking about recent discovery of garden gnomes.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Doctors are talking about yoga, meditation and eating grass now. Hugging trees isn't just for quacks anymore, Everyone's on weed and Ayahuasca.  New Age is infiltrating Western science.  Our grandchildren will be talking about recent discovery of garden gnomes.

New  Age is infiltrating Western science? Not if I can help it, lol.

 

See the thread Pseudoscience is Not Science for more information.

[mikey101]

 

Doctors are talking about yoga, meditation and eating grass now. Hugging trees isn't just for quacks anymore, Everyone's on weed and Ayahuasca.  New Age is infiltrating Western science.  Our grandchildren will be talking about recent discovery of garden gnomes.

New  Age is infiltrating Western science? Not if I can help it, lol.

 

See the thread Pseudoscience is Not Science for more information.

 

Wasn't talking about pseudoscience. Also, use of the word infiltrating wasn't meant to be taken literal.  Nothing's being infiltrated, as far as I know.  

[FreeThinkerNZ]

 

 

Doctors are talking about yoga, meditation and eating grass now. Hugging trees isn't just for quacks anymore, Everyone's on weed and Ayahuasca.  New Age is infiltrating Western science.  Our grandchildren will be talking about recent discovery of garden gnomes.

New  Age is infiltrating Western science? Not if I can help it, lol.

 

See the thread Pseudoscience is Not Science for more information.

 

Wasn't talking about pseudoscience. Also, use of the word infiltrating wasn't meant to be taken literal.  Nothing's being infiltrated, as far as I know.  

 

Sometimes I really struggle to understand your posts.

 

The reason I mentioned that thread was to save myself the trouble of writing a whole paragraph to explain that many of us care very much about things like evidence-based medicine and will do everything we can to stop unscientific crap getting any airtime.  That is all.