mikey101 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I'm sorry that has been your experience. Don't mistake it for everything that's out there. So are you saying that the idea of going from Christianity to spirituality as progress is just my experience? As someone spiritual, surely you see going from Evangelical Christian belief to spirituality as a good thing. As long as no dogma is involved, I'm all for it. Dogma can be defined as 'a belief or set of beliefs that is accepted by the members of a group without being questioned or doubted.' It could also be said that dogma is a belief seen as objectively true by a group. For example, a group might claim the bible is totally evil and only about judgement, and that there is no question about that. Yet, another group, like a LGBT church, might interpret the bible differently as say the bible is actually about a loving god. Which is true? The bible certainly has judgement. It also has love. I would say neither is right, each just has their own subjective interpretation or view of it. Spirituality is much the same, there are certain beliefs being held, and depending on the person or group, they may be held dogmatically or not. Reminds me of the saying "Religion is a good thing, in moderation." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted November 25, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted November 25, 2014 If you think we all have a "path" we are following; if you think you are further along that path than someone else; if you think you've "transcended" religion; if you think "enlightenment" is a goal; if you think belief in enlightenment, soul, spirit or non-local consciousness is not religious dogma...... you just might be spiritual. I've dabbled in such things myself. Nothing to be ashamed of, but can we be honest? Spiritual beliefs are often strongly held and strongly defended as with any other religious belief. Me? I was born enlightened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 And this is the Spirituality Forum, where we get to talk about spirituality. The point of this forum is to be able to talk about it without getting derailed into a defense of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted November 25, 2014 Author Share Posted November 25, 2014 I think people are getting off topic again. The OP was about one particular definition of "spirituality" that is atheistic, materialistic, scientific, and has nothing to do with transcendence, enlightenment, soul, spirit, or non-local consciousness. The OP was not about claiming what is "usually" meant by the word spiritual. It was about one definition of spirituality that I personally can live with. In my opinion, spirituality need not be a dirty word, as long as you carefully define what you mean by it. Maybe other words are better, but there are a bunch of people who are on board with the definition in the OP, as confirmed by Cousin Ricky. In any case, if you want to critique your definition of spirituality, by all means do so, but, as the guidelines posted in this subforum would suggest, this subforum does not really seem the place to do that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted November 25, 2014 Author Share Posted November 25, 2014 Snap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted November 25, 2014 Moderator Share Posted November 25, 2014 Though I'm skeptical about spirituality serving as a path to finding an objective purpose, I can see how spiritual practices might inspire empathy and self-directed purpose. "Although naturalism may at first seem an unlikely basis for spirituality, a naturalistic vision of ourselves and the world can inspire and inform spiritual experience. Naturalism understands such experience as psychological states constituted by the activity of our brains, but this doesn't lessen the appeal of such experience, or render it less profound. Appreciating the fact of our complete inclusion in nature can generate feelings of connection and meaning that rival those offered by traditional religions, and those feelings reflect the empirical reality of our being at home in the cosmos.” http://www.naturalism.org/spiritua.htm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted November 25, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted November 25, 2014 The OP was about one particular definition of "spirituality" that is atheistic, materialistic, scientific... My problem is not with the content of that definition at all. I just would point out that the term "spiritual" is already taken and it certainly can't be accurate to apply it as a synonym or descriptive for atheistic or materialistic. They are the opposite of what spiritual means unless we randomly redefine the word so we can apply a currently popular buzz word to label ourselves. I don't see why we need to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I think people are getting off topic again. The OP was about one particular definition of "spirituality" that is atheistic, materialistic, scientific, and has nothing to do with transcendence, enlightenment, soul, spirit, or non-local consciousness. The OP was not about claiming what is "usually" meant by the word spiritual. It was about one definition of spirituality that I personally can live with. In my opinion, spirituality need not be a dirty word, as long as you carefully define what you mean by it. Maybe other words are better, but there are a bunch of people who are on board with the definition in the OP, as confirmed by Cousin Ricky. In any case, if you want to critique your definition of spirituality, by all means do so, but, as the guidelines posted in this subforum would suggest, this subforum does not really seem the place to do that. What are the "guidelines posted in this subform"? Or what do they suggest to you? I don't really want to sidetrack this entire topic, but I am curious how you interpret them. Perhaps PM me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cousin Ricky Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 The OP was about one particular definition of "spirituality" that is atheistic, materialistic, scientific... My problem is not with the content of that definition at all. I just would point out that the term "spiritual" is already taken and it certainly can't be accurate to apply it as a synonym or descriptive for atheistic or materialistic. I certainly would not redefine “spiritual” as atheistic or materialistic. But I can understand the term in a way that is compatible with materialism and materialistic atheism, much the same way that “free will” can be understood in a non-liberal sense. Religious people have certain feelings and experiences that they call “spiritual.” Many materialists have the same feelings and experiences, and I don’t see a need to find a different term just because we don’t agree with religious people that they have a supernatural (“spiritual”) cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 The OP was about one particular definition of "spirituality" that is atheistic, materialistic, scientific... My problem is not with the content of that definition at all. I just would point out that the term "spiritual" is already taken and it certainly can't be accurate to apply it as a synonym or descriptive for atheistic or materialistic. I certainly would not redefine “spiritual” as atheistic or materialistic. But I can understand the term in a way that is compatible with materialism and materialistic atheism, much the same way that “free will” can be understood in a non-liberal sense. Religious people have certain feelings and experiences that they call “spiritual.” Many materialists have the same feelings and experiences, and I don’t see a need to find a different term just because we don’t agree with religious people that they have a supernatural (“spiritual”) cause. That's what I meant to say, I can understand the term in a way that is compatible with those things. Thanks for that, and for understanding what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 I think people are getting off topic again. The OP was about one particular definition of "spirituality" that is atheistic, materialistic, scientific, and has nothing to do with transcendence, enlightenment, soul, spirit, or non-local consciousness. The OP was not about claiming what is "usually" meant by the word spiritual. It was about one definition of spirituality that I personally can live with. In my opinion, spirituality need not be a dirty word, as long as you carefully define what you mean by it. Maybe other words are better, but there are a bunch of people who are on board with the definition in the OP, as confirmed by Cousin Ricky. In any case, if you want to critique your definition of spirituality, by all means do so, but, as the guidelines posted in this subforum would suggest, this subforum does not really seem the place to do that. What are the "guidelines posted in this subform"? Or what do they suggest to you? I don't really want to sidetrack this entire topic, but I am curious how you interpret them. Perhaps PM me? The topic was being sidetracked anyway, but hopefully that has stopped now. The guidelines (actually "rules" I see now) are posted at the start of the subforum's table of contents. The relevant part is self-explanatory: In this one area of Ex-Christian.net, each individual who has adopted an alternative spiritual expression should feel encouraged to freely express any experiences, thoughts, or opinions without fear of being brow beaten, harshly criticized, or condemned. Failure to adhere to these simple rules with common courtesy may result in revocation of posting permission in this section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Correct. And yes, its pretty self explanatory. And so far, I do not see any harsh criticism. So, I see no need to invoke reference to said rules. What I do not see in the rules is any reference to keeping "on topic" at all times, such as we have in the Colosseum, nor do I see where a critique is not permitted, provided it is not harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey101 Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 There seems to be traditional spirituality that emphasizes transformation, and the modern which emphasizes experience. The modern is now being talked about in areas like psychology, medicine, green politics and feminism apparently. You can listen to music now and say you had a spiritual experience. It's also like a health supplement that gives much needed relaxation and self-awareness. But I'm sure there's lots of way to look at it, there's no clear definition. I relate it to art. it's core is the inspiration that causes a transformation, and loses something when analyzed or compared. Spirituality being better than religion to me is like comparing modern art with classical art. It's subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I will continue to have spiritual experiences regardless of how you define it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey101 Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I will continue to have spiritual experiences regardless of how you define it. I'm not sure why anyone's definition would cause you to think you shouldn't continue having spiritual experiences.. I don't have a problem with spiritual experience being subjective, it doesn't cause it to lose any power or meaning for me. I don't see spirituality being about objective Truth, although it is a popular way to look at in the West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I have found that by meditating on my own spirituality that i have found out truths about myself, that helped me deal with everyday life. (my two shekels worth) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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