Brother Jeff Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Anyone else struggle with what to say to someone who has lost a loved one? I am an atheist now, so I can't offer the hope of heaven, and I don't believe the Bible anymore, so I can't offer scripture(s). I am often at a loss for something to say. My words seem inadequate and I feel like I have nothing to offer but the brutal reality that the loved one is not in a better place, but in fact no longer exists. My aunt Leila just died yesterday. I got the news just a while ago. I hadn't seen her or had any contact with her for many years, but I'm still saddened to know that she is dead and gone now. My cousin Jackie is having a really hard time right now dealing with her mother's death, and what do I have to offer other than love and a compassionate ear? I am near tears not because my aunt is dead, but because I hurt because my cousin, whom I love dearly, is hurting so badly right now... Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrive Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Brother Jeff, there really isn't a good thing to say besides, "I am sorry". I was widowed in 2001 and I have spent the years since very involved in online support groups. During this time I have met thousands of other widow(er)s. We discuss this subject a lot. You would think that we would know what to say, but even now I am at a loss in situations like this. When you are grieving you are extremely emotional and quick to anger. Many times words of comfort, especially religious ones can end up causing more pain. To tell someone "they are in a better place now" or "god needed them in heaven (needed another angel), or "it was just their time" can actually make the grieving person feel guilty for wanting their loved one to still be here. In the end you have to realize that nothing you can say will make it better. Death just sucks for everyone left behind, and in the US we live in a culture that is very uncomfortable with thinking about or talking about death. That leaves most of us very unprepared to deal with it. When we see someone grieving we want them to feel better as soon as possible, and we search for the words that will make them hurt less. But in reality that is selfish of us. When you are grieving you must feel the pain and deal with it before you can move on. So, tell her you are sorry, and listen to her talk. Let her feel what she feels, for as long as she needs to feel it. Take your cues from your cousin, but she will most likely want to talk about your aunt and hear stories about her. Don't be scared to say your aunts name or bring her up even in the future. So many times people worry that bringing the person up will cause pain, but the opposite is generally true. Your cousin is already hurting, but it will help her to know that others loved your aunt and will not forget her. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Anyone else struggle with what to say to someone who has lost a loved one? I am an atheist now, so I can't offer the hope of heaven, and I don't believe the Bible anymore, so I can't offer scripture(s). I am often at a loss for something to say. My words seem inadequate and I feel like I have nothing to offer but the brutal reality that the loved one is not in a better place, but in fact no longer exists. My aunt Leila just died yesterday. I got the news just a while ago. I hadn't seen her or had any contact with her for many years, but I'm still saddened to know that she is dead and gone now. My cousin Jackie is having a really hard time right now dealing with her mother's death, and what do I have to offer other than love and a compassionate ear? I am near tears not because my aunt is dead, but because I hurt because my cousin, whom I love dearly, is hurting so badly right now... Thoughts? First of all what is stopping you from offering your shoulder to them and saying "I am here for you still", why can't you come up and say "Is there anything I can do in this time of sorrow for your to ease your burden of emotion" "can I cook you dinner" "can I sit and hug you"? We all die. It sucks that some of us live on while others go first but we are behind them all coming to that last great adventure in life that is the uknown of death. Just because you cannot offer them god to ease the passage does not mean we go to nothing. For all you know this is a big VR illusion and you wake up in a chair someplace hooked to a computer and find out that only 30 min has passed by and you just lived an entire lifespan of some imaginary race called human for your own entertainment. now I am not saying to tell that to anyone just that there is no reason not to think that there are a lot of unknowns in this universe still for us. I have lost many people in life and the first time was harder than anything. The more I age though the easier it gets knowing that one day I will walk that path alone as well. I think that saying you love them and will miss her with them and just sit with them and smile when they need it and cry with them when they need it is the biggest thing a friend or relative can do during grieving. In the end though all my dead friends and family would only want to see me hurt for so long and then go back and live, live for us all. I will miss them until I die but I feel closer to them in my life when I remember that it is not just myself I live for but for the things they taught me and what I can take from their no finished life back to the world and keep them alive in that way through me. just be there and you are doing it right. My hope would be for us all that we celebrate those that pass in joy in anyway we can find it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 what do I have to offer other than love and a compassionate ear? That's exactly what you have to give. Some people never offer even this. mwc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I experienced something when I was a Christian which still sticks with me: A woman, a nurse, in our church had lost her father. There is so much ritual expectation about he is with the Lord now, and so forth. I remember she said "I know I'm supposed to be happy because he's with Jesus right now, but I'm so sad, I miss him so much." My response at the time would do for any atheist: "You're sad cause you loved him, and you're human. I'm here for you, if there's anything I can do let me know." She clearly had not been treated like this. the gawd offers expectations of performance, not hope. the church has a way of being that is acceptable and one that isn't for a response. We who aren't in it, can be free to express our humanity by being there for the person who is still here. It is a human's more noble nature, in my opinion, to show compassion and empathy and not provide false hopes. Truth is, outside of the shackles, brokenness and shaming of Cristinsanity, we can provide more than we could when we were in. Ironically, in that church situation, my orthodoxy was called into question. Not by the poor woman who was suffering, but by others around her. Hell, guess they were right, and I own it all. Glad to be unorthodox from that, and supportive of fellow human beings, in whatever way makes sense to them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Brother Jeff: I went to a funeral for a 9 year old girl years ago who had died of sudden death syndrome. It was my daughter's best friend. A tough time, indeed. The funeral service was at a Greek Orthodox Church. The priest's sermon was surprising to me. While he expressed great sorrow for the deceased girl's family, he also listed many of the things the little girl would not have to suffer. He said that she would not have to endure old age, disease, the loss of her parents, and all the other disappointments that occur in life. I don't remember all the others, but it was quite a list. My thought at the time was about just how the parents would take this sermon. It seemed to me he was saying she was better off dead. I'm sure he didn't mean it that way. Nevertheless, it could be interpreted in that way. But when I met with the parents afterward they expressed great appreciation for the sermon. Somehow, it make them feel better. I was relieved. It is true that death is the end of suffering. And every life carries with it plenty of suffering. I have heard people point out that a real evil in Xtianity is the fact that it teaches the doctrine of hell in which non-christians suffer eternally, not because of having lived bad lives, but because they didn't believe the "right" things. So, Xtianity would take away the one thing that we humans could count on to end suffering: death. Similarly, pneumonia has been called the old person's friend because it is a relatively easy death. I look at death not as losing something, because we never had it, that is,eternal. life. Nor would I necessarily want it. Rip 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonkeyman Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I had this exact same problem with my fiance - We went on a Ghost tour and she said that she felt paranormal activity and that souls can become trapped. Considering this is non-scriptural I decided to adjust her thinking but was met with fearce opposition. Since her Grandad died under a year ago she could not cope with me saying that It's better that theres no heaven or hell. Her response was 'Whats the point in living?' And she got rather depressed at this concept. So I find personally if someone wants to believe in God let them - But as long as they dont push it on me. As for some people this delicate construct of Punishment / Redemption is all that keeps them from killing themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 Thanks, everybody. Your thoughts and input really help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Hey Jeff. We can empathize, offer the shoulder. Be well, brother. Tend to and take care of yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyson Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I am a bit blatant and tell them to go for therapy, or see a bereavement councillor. I wish my mom did this when my dad kicked the bucket when I was a kid. It could have saved her denying his death by turning to Christian fundamentalism. Finding solutions in reality to such emotional upheaval and loss would have saved both of us a huge deal of suffering. She refuses to date anyone, or even consider doing so. She is waiting for death so she can be reunited with him in heaven. Its a great source of heartache for me. As an agnositic atheist, that basically means she is chucking away something that could be a significant source of happiness and support. Instead she soldiers on alone, praying to God. Christianity can be so awful. I honestly try to keep a balanced view, because some liberal versions, they really arent so bad. But then I look at my mom. Then lump it all into a single bucket and hate it all over again. The next time I lose someone significant, I am going straight to a councillor or therapist, perhaps get some happy pills to ease the transition, and face the loss / find solutions in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I'm mixed on the "What's the harm?" bit. I have told this before elsewhere so sorry for the repeat but it bears repeating on this thread: I was helping out in a youth group situation in a church we were in. Not a leader per se, just a backup musician and sound guy. Played everything very cool and didn't get in the fray with the teenagers laying hands on each other qand all that, stood to the side or played background music while they took to carrying on. Anyhow, after a meeting one night, a little fifteen-year-old girl came running up to me crying and pleading, setting off any warning bell a father could possess; I thought maybe she had been assaulted somehow. But, her atheist friend in high school had died recently, and now, that alleged atheist is now burning in hell. She had the imagery and was terrified. For years afterwards I rather bitterly resented my incompetence of the situation, hwo here we had this terrorized little girl under any other circumstances would have been treated for a disorder, and all we had was me, disengaging myself from her desperate clinging, placing her gently in a chair, trying at a few consoling words including "We don't really know, maybe he changed his mind, we don't really know what comes after ..." to her cries of "You don't understand!" and ultimately me getting her a female youth leader to help. which was no help at all. It still makes me angry enough I could kill! So, there is a hell, that poor girl was in it. And there was an assault situation: I was right after all. The assault started when she was first told about hell, and continued thereafter, with all of us adults in her vicinity being wholly complicit. As I said, I could kill for this. I unfortunately compartmentalize it in the back of my mind for years, but it has reared its ugly ass since my deconversion. WEll, during it. Every time I see one of the Daughter's friends who was homeschooled, I think of that assault on that little girl. Those hoeschooled sheltered kind are helpless things, terrified little things. My daughter told me the other day, when she was telling me who she has or hasn't told her ol' dad came out clean as atheist, that there is one friend of hers she will never tell, and all their friends agree. They said she would cry and cry and be upset for days. I don't even know this one, probably cooked food for the lot of them numerous times, or took them places, but don't always keep track of which one is which, except her core friends. Anyway, why would a little sheltered homeschooled girl be afraid and cry for someone she doesn't even know? I think I know, and the above-mentioned situation tells all. I to this day think the most dishonorable and cowardly thing I ever did as a man was be complicit in this teaching about hell, even though in our home we never emphasized it. There is harm, especially to those who are just plain weakened for wont of exposure to the world at large. I'm sorry for maybe hijacking this. But there is indeed very great potential harm. If the person in question believes the deceased was a believer, that poor person is at least safe. My own family lost a uncle a few years ago to suicide. He was a Bible-toting Baptist preacher. No hate in his body, but the real deal. I was really afraid for the little kids in the family, as suicide was thought at one time to be a one-way ticket to Hell. But I guess in a recent update to the software we call Christianity, someone fixed that particular bug, maybe. I was very relieved to see we weren't going to have another incident like what I saw years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Leo, I am touched reading your post. Please don't beat up on yourself. We are ALL victims of this Christian religion. Every one here who was raised in it knows the power of it and what it can do to a person's mind. I am sorry any of us had to experience this - and especially being imprinted on our young minds when we had no choice in the matter. I really feel for you being in a position such that when that person needed your help, you were unable to give it. All we can do is go on and live the rest of our lives being possibly now in a place where we could say something helpful. Even now, that would be a difficult situation to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Anyone else struggle with what to say to someone who has lost a loved one? I am an atheist now, so I can't offer the hope of heaven, and I don't believe the Bible anymore, so I can't offer scripture(s). I am often at a loss for something to say. My words seem inadequate and I feel like I have nothing to offer but the brutal reality that the loved one is not in a better place, but in fact no longer exists. My aunt Leila just died yesterday. I got the news just a while ago. I hadn't seen her or had any contact with her for many years, but I'm still saddened to know that she is dead and gone now. My cousin Jackie is having a really hard time right now dealing with her mother's death, and what do I have to offer other than love and a compassionate ear? I am near tears not because my aunt is dead, but because I hurt because my cousin, whom I love dearly, is hurting so badly right now... Thoughts? "Love and a compassionate ear" (your words) is a wonderful, robust and complete combination. Do that, and you will be doing all you can do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I'm very sorry about your aunt and cousin. I don't think there is much you can say besides, as you said, offering compassion and love. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Brother Jeff, I remember the line of a song (I think either by Maire Brennan or Enya, but I'm not entirely sure that my memory isn't playing tricks on me) that goes "silence speaks where words cannot mend". Sometimes saying things is over-rated. What is needed is just a presence, a shoulder to cry on and an ear with which to listen. It's not easy - it is upsetting. But often it's all we have to offer in such situations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Brother Jeff, it sounds like you did exactly the right thing. I'm sorry you were suffering during this too. I fortunately learned at an early age, that I don't necessarily have to say much of anything because you never know what the person needs or wants to hear. I recently had a cousin who lost her grandfather and was comforted by the fact that he was "playing golf in heaven right now". Who would have thought that this would comfort her, but it did. It's just a gamble every time. "I am so sorry for what you're suffering right now" that about covers it for me and lets them hear what they want to hear in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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